Shadi

That's very easy to explain as it comes down to common sense. A game such as RO is competitive and since this is a PK server it relies around PvP. Therefore all aspects should be taken into account. Hence you compare classes and based on that you decide whether a certain class deserves a boost or not. This is required to get anywhere near class balance. As creators are one of the weakest classes atm, and it's a BOOST that get's suggested you will compare the class that gets a suggested boost to the weakest class on the server atm. Why would you boost certain classes when there's other classes that are way weaker at the current time ? Prioritize the balance and prioritize the weakest classes first. Gunslinger is definitely not one of the weakest classes and therefore they do not require a boost at this given time. Other than that the suggested boost is about giving a certain class a skill from the MERCHANT class. Hence why you bring up the merchant class and how it effects them if we keep on giving enlarge weight limit to other classes. Also what on earth is the use of a cart when there's @storage available ? Even in the biggest events aka WoE @storage is enabled so the cart hardly has any use at all and is therefore not a valid arguement. Bottom line : I do not agree with adding enlarge weight limit to the gunslinger weapon. If classes are to be boosted we should start with the weakest ones not with the ones that are already close to the top.

A single fight can easily take up to 1k ADs so you should at least carry this amount with you with about 30 str you'd reach 5k max weight. 2k of this is already gone by the ad bottles then another 30-50 weight of fcp bottles. Then your gear, regular belts together nearly take 1k as well. Lets say that all your gear and bottles reach up the 3k explained above. That would mean you'd have 1500 more weight until you'd be 90% overweight. This means about 100 seeds. Basically creators are forced to stack up on str to carry items while all other classes get the weight boost as well that do not require such heavy load to carry along with them into battle (aka acid bottles and grenade bottles.). One could argue that creators get a cart that gives them additional weight. However I think this arguement is invalid as @storage is available at most areas including some competitive areas such as WoE castles. I think the gunslinger dps is high enough to use the glass cannon arguement. The creator dps definitely isn't. Though creator/chemists are not supposed to be a glass cannon class, they're actually supposed to be one of the best tanks out there that can outlast an enemy. However on this server they got extremely crap HP and their survivability is less than a glass cannon class.

Disagree. The weight limit is pretty much the only weakness gunslingers have nowadays. Insane damage output and on par if not higher HP than for example a chemist. A chemist can carry less seeds than a gunslinger because of the acid/grenade bottles they need to carry. AND they have less HP than gunslingers while they're supposed to be tanky classes. So chemists lost their weight advantage (because every class is getting the enlarge weight limit...) AND their entire tankyness. While a class like gunslinger, which is supposed to be a glass cannon gets boosted HP and now wants boosted weight limit as well ? I really don't think gunslingers are the class to look at with the intension to buff.

I actually agree with this suggestion and I think the argument of 'diversity' between WoE's is invalid. Considering that the two woe's should NOT differentiate from each other. To keep things fair for european/asian players the two WoE's should be as much alike as possible and not be made to differentiate on purpose. Please remember that the woe's are only separated to be available to all time zones. Not to be different kinds of woes for the US players.

Indeed to 'some' of them you said it. But there's quite a few that didn't not have the 'lets say' part in front of them. But basically you are basing the accusations and reasoning behind the statements on people's bragging ? I don't think that's a very decent source to back up your statements o.o and I'm pretty damn sure that the 'It was someone else on my account' excuse has never gotten anyone unbanned really. Again a random statement, no names , no proof. It doesn't really convince me. Either way this suggestion was to help the GMs so it's basically up to them. If it convinces them then it should be accepted :3.

Part of me agrees, part of me disagrees. I agree because the double attack is an unfair advantage and turns pvp in a wipe-out and relog kind of thing. But I also disagree based on our current PvP being heavily party based. For people that actually are fair enough to try and solo the double atk is a highly needed buff. Basically double attack is the only thing keeping parties from constantly being in PvP. Only the double atk can help a single person wipe out a party.

Re-reading all the comments I really started to wonder about some things. How did you notice this ? And what makes you think the begging works ? Which GM's did this ? I'm really curious. Cause I highly doubt this ever happened. Saying things like the above is generally stating that GM's are bias. I think that's a pretty huge accusation specially now knowing that only senior and higher gms can reduce punishments. When did this happen and to whom did this happen ? You're stating a lot of things that I'd really like to see some proof from. If you want your suggestion topic to succeed it needs to be based on facts. If all that you're saying is true, then an additional warning and more strict rulings could be useful. However, right now to me it seems like a bunch of statements that are made up, more than statements based on proof.

I understand your frustration. I personally main one of the classes that are rendered quite a lot weaker with the belt change as well. However all other things from the update I like. And because these newer belts would indeed be harder to get for poorer and newer people , I want to make sure that the older belts remain usefull. Also since the demand in the older belts will drop the price will probably drop as well, meaning that newer players can get the older belts easier than before and still be slightly on par with the richer players. I fail to understand how this is a solution to anything. Leaving str based characters with an option to add 80 additional stat points to their main stat while all other jobs are not able to use their +80 stat belt set? That causes a ton of imbalance between str based characters and all other characters. So telling all other jobs to just not use their belts makes no sense. Well, this is with every single item release. The richer people will always be able to get the items faster than the poor. However having the older belts return to low weight would give the poorer people a great alternative for the new belts. They could get the regular(old) belts first (stat boost gives the biggest boost) and then slowly make their way towards the slotted ones.

I'm glad you two support my suggestion. However it was clearly explained why the belt weight changed and it has nothing to do with the new items. As stated twice in this topic the belts did not have the same weight which got corrected. However since I liked the older situation better, I made this suggestion. I don't really get how you can be disappointed in an entire update due to a single bugfix. Of course many pvpers dislike the bugfix hence why I made this suggestion as well. I'm here to suggest to change the weight back, not to trash the entire update due to a single change. The update was huge and included a lot of fixes, new items, quests and possibilities. All in all it was a great update. Yet for the PvP balance the belt weight is the only thing that bugs people. It's the only thing that's disliked atm and therefore the entire update is crap ? I tend to disagree. Aside from that Genesis is clearly wanting to work out a solution for this issue and it seems that the community agrees to changing it back to 250-300 as well. :) I still think anywhere between 250 and 300 weight will be fine :3

Agree with Seraphine. All players already say they know and agree to the rules when they sign up. If they don't read the rules it's their own mistake.

Awesome update :). This will open up a lot of new playstyles. @ i lab ants : If you look around on the forums you would've known why. Check my suggestion topic if you want lower weight on the belts.

I say lets meet each other at 300 weight each =P. That way normal belts would not have gotten any worse than they were, but there is a way better alternative for them now :). So they'd still be very decent and useful and more importantly, they'll still be wanted by players :3. Also, having a total of 200 weight bonus, a slot and a rune extra for each accessory is still a huge improvement and changing the weight from these belts to what they used to be won't effect the demand on the new items too much. :)

Hello all, As most of you probably have noticed, the forsaken king belt weight was changed to 800. Apparently str belts used to weight this much already but the other belts had lower weight so they got corrected to also weight 800. However, I think 800 is too much. It renders several classes with weight problems. Classes that come to mind are mage classes and even the Alchemist gets into weight trouble due to carrying bottles and yggs as well. This while the newer accesories weight only 100 and have another huge advantage by being slotted. The old weight from the belts ranged between 200 and 300 weight. Therefore I would suggest changing all belt weights to 250. That way the new belts still have an weight advantage, a slot advantage and a possible rune advantage. Yet the older belts won't render classes near useless when it comes to carrying supplies. Please let me know what you think and elaborate your opinion if you have one :3. Thank you, Shadi

I'd personally actually prefer the elemental reductions over the additional demi human reduction one. However as many have stated your suggested boosts are over the top. I'd say keep it at +15 all stats with the current reductions and add something like +5% magical or physical attack or 5-8% HP or something like that.

I saw the video popping up with the very first image. Pose looked a bit like a stripper show was about to start. So I left. I came, I did not see, I left. =D.

I see where this is coming from but I have to disagree with it. A lot of changes would have to be made to the current pvp scenario in order to disable the posion bottles as well. Cause as you stated you wanted it to be player vs player. Right now it's Huge team vs player. Which only encourages the use of items such as the poison bottle. If there would be ways to turn pvp back into the way it once was, with regular one on one fights, then maybe removing the poison bottles would be fair. But right now I don't think changing this would benefit the "fairness" of pvp. Also, you cant force people that want the activity tokens to just sit in town all day. Activity tokens were supposed to promote activity. Even though it didn't work out the way it was planned, telling someone to go inactive in town to gain activity coupons isn't very logical. P.S I think using a poison bottle still grants a pvp ladder death. So their ratio would still be troublesome.

The helms weren't made to initially be better than the fhelm. There's only 3 reasons why they are worth more than a regular fhelm. 1: It's more exclusive (aka rare). 2: People tend to love fashion, so looking better and/or different is very wanted. The item was meant as a substitute to the fhelm not a boost to the fhelm. As stated in this topic before. Want to look pretty/handsome ? Be prepared to pull out your wallet. 3: The helms are possible to get boosted to a better imp version. Having this possibility also increases the value of the hats. Why did it get lower towards 200 coupons ? The supply is getting bigger. More people donate for the hats while the demand pretty much stays the same. This results in lower prices because the buyers will have multiple sellers to choose from. Therefore a price war starts. Adding in the option to change the color will lower the amount of donations and the price of the item in-game because colors would no longer be as exclusive as they are now. It might increase the demand .But that's only for a very very short while cause people would no longer need to look for a specific color.

Disagree. This test server would most likely be hosted on the same host as our main server. Therefore it will have a high probability of increasing ping on the main server. I want, at all costs, that the main server remains stable and with the best connection possible. Adding a second server to it will not benefit the connection. As for the 'test period'. After every single test done. Changes have to be made. These changes would be made to the test server. While at the same time this time invested in the test server could've been invested into the main server. Tests and changes are an ongoing process. A system is never completely done with it's testing phase as long as changes are being made to it. It's an ongoing project not something you can cancel in a few months time and consider enough testing to be done.

I actually don't think it's possible to change the acid bottles to the same way arrows work atm. (So I've heard. never tested it myself..). I agree with lowering the cost and perhaps even removing their weight. Considering merchant classes are supposed to be able to carry more supplies compared to other classes. Yet almost all classes got enlarge weight limit and those classes do not require to carry a ton of bottles with them to be effective. Most of the time a real duel can take up to 2k bottles. which means carrying 4k bottles in total (acid/grenade) this also means 4k weight which is pretty much 50% already even if you have a hybrid strength build. In other words other classes can carry more yggs and supplies compared to the chemist. I don't think saying "But you have a cart" is anywhere near valid considering @storage is enabled in nearly all places.

The very first 3 WoE 2.0's you played your priest. And used the heal skill on the second guardian stone. Your orange priest called Father Xtopher. I'm not making things up. yet you're allowed to keep denying things to try and safe your own arguement. Healing the stones isn't. Keeping the stones up through defence and healing it is. It's not narrow minded it's the way WoE 2.0 is supposed to be. And yes I've played WoE 2.0 on iRO before. Simply claiming that all my statements are false does not win you any arguement. The stone will break very easily without the ability to heal it. it's not a "false" statement as you call it. This stone is EASIER to kill than the emperium aura if it can not be healed. Omg Chris.. Isn't it obvious that with referring to your I mean the guild you are in. Aside from that I said "our" once referring to a current rate on the SERVER. How on earth can this be biased in any single way. You really are just trying to make things up now to make people that disagree with you look bad. Who has what items is VERY relevant as you are expecting to easily be able to take a castle from a guild that has 3 times your amount of players. I have every right to post in your topics and none of my posts have been bias. They've been based on experience and data collected from the passed few WoE's. If you can't handle the truth dont ask for opinions by making a suggestion topic. Spamming the land protector skill isn't that hard. as replacing it is way faster than removing it. And obviously the land protector is not there to disable the heal skill. it's there to make your fellow members immune to many area of effect skills. Thus survive longer, thus be able to do more damage on the stone, because according to you that's the biggest problem you have right now. Not being able to reach the stone. Well use some tactiques and you will be able to. The fact that you didn't even link the land protector with survivability already showed the lack of thought in your basic attacking plan. All you focus on is the healing spell, disregarding everything else. There's MANY other factors playing along but you're so fixated on the fact that they can heal that you seem to forget everything else. Alright I'll mention American woe. Today you were not able to guard with your full guild vs 10 attackers. This is on the emperium. Now imagine if all attackers could use skills on the stone/emp. That's right it would've broken within a minute as the emp broke in about 2 minutes without skills. But this is the emp , which can not be hit by skills and can be healed with sanc yet you couldn't guard it while you had a lot more people in the emp room. And still you try to claim guarding it without the ability to heal it will be easy. I'm not posting here for any guild leader, neither do I have any self interest with WoE 2.0 at this moment. I'm here for the sake of balance, so your statement is once again bias. You keep on claiming other people are bias while you just made the biggest bias comment of all. Saying that all people that do not agree with your huge nerf/change are here for their own interest or for their guild leader. That comment is based on what ? Every person in here has their own reason to post. including yourself. You say you're making this in the sake of balance yet you're not respecting any opinion that is different than yours. If you wouldn't be bias you would be looking for an option between the two extremes. The two extremes being disabling bacsojin/ leaving things as they are. But instead you are asking for what benefits your current guild the most. So cut the crap with calling people bias as you obviously have your own reasons to make this topic and not even try to get to an agreement with both parties. I kinda wonder, whats the use of a class if you cant use it to it's full potential at the main server events ? Disabling bacsojins in WoE 2.0 THAT shows that you dont care about priests at all. And that all you care about is making something that's supposed to be hard into something thats done very easily. The heal skill has a 1second after skill delay. Adding kiels has literally 0 use for it because the sprite of casting heal takes longer than a second. Heal can only be spammed really fast while being autoattacked. Unless you get autoattacked your spam will be slow to regular as the heal delay consists of sprite delay more than skill delay.

I have been in one of the bigger guilds. and I certainly do know what I'm talking about. I'm not running around on a character watching. I normally do join the battle , yet today I didn't for 1 single reason. I wanted to be able to post here based on information gathered today and in the past. And yes you've known it. You've used it in the first few WoE 2.0's. Mark the word used not abused as you named it. As it's not a bug of any kind it cant be considered abuse in any way. It's there to be used. Thought out and logical.. shutting down the main defence mechanism of WoE 2.0 almost entirely is not that thought out, neither is it logical. Maybe it's logical in your point of view because right now the heal makes you unable to take it, so you want to turn things around completely and make something that right now is easy to guard into something quite unguardable. Seeing how long your devo paladins lasted during this WoE a champ could easily get off 5-10 asuras on the stone before one of them or both of them would die. In my examples I do have people defending. The problem is not a lot of you are able to survive as good as some of your geared players like Cole himself. This woe you were outnumbered and most likely outgeared based on average gear from each player. If you are able to recruit more players or gear more players up it wouldn't be as hard as it's now (specially not if they cant heal the stone and it just has boosted hp). Today digni had more people than usual and you cant expect to just walk over a guild that has way more members than you. You not being able to reach the stone is because of : 1 : you have less people and some of them are still undergeared. 2 : there is not a single bit of tactiques involved in your attacking, other then ecalling nearby. In the entire woe, I have maybe seen 1 land protector coming from your professors. This skill is highly essential when attacking a castle. Other than 1 or 2 LKs of your guild none focussed the stone everyone went after players instead. Dont try to change WoE 2.0 mechanisms just because you cant dominate a guild that had 3x your amount of members. o.o No land protectors. No champs on the stones other than 1 single champ asuraing stone 2 while the rest of you was at stone 1 and focussing players. not the stone. As for my fact. At our current rate normal emperiums during eu woe die once every 2minutes-3minutes. this is an average of our last 5 EU Woes. so this is a fact. based on numbers. if emps (that can be healed but cant be targetted for other skills) cant even be guarded. Then how on earth will anyone guard the guardian stone that will not be able to be healed properly but WILL be able to get targetted by any skill ? Yes WoE 2.0 has much more defenders, but much more attackers as well. Bottom line my opinion : I'm fine with removing the ability to heal the stone. But do increase it's max HP so it cant break within 2 minutes. These stones are needed for guardians and for the barricade they shouldn't be a 2 minute job. which they will be if their hp doesn't get boosted and they'll be unhealable.

Kyuubi. Your personal attacks are so uneccesary. If you read my entire posts you will understand what I mean. @cole I never said it was balanced the way it is. I'm stating that completely removing the ability to heal it is not balanced either. To get something in between is removing the ability to heal it and boosting up it's max HP. this way it cant be kept up by healing and will surely die within decent time. The time you were on the stone today nearly every run you did, it would've easily broke if they would not be able to heal the stone, even if it had more max hp.

Cole. You don't know every character that I have, you couldn't possibly know whether I woe'd or not. And I have played WoE 2.0 several times on here as well. Never in my post did I state "omg the stone broke castle is gone" I stated if you allow the change to not being able to heal it you cant sucessfully guard the stone. Which is a fact (given its current hp and giving the fact that it will still be vurnerable to all other skills). A dedicated group would be able to take down the stone in about 2 minutes if the defending party would not be able to heal it. Once the stone breaks it doesn't mean the castle is gone but the stones are the main defence of the castle. being able to break the stone in 2 minutes time would be rediculous. So sure you can change basco card. but then make the stone immune to all other skills as well. Or boost up it's HP big-time. So it will have a lot hp but will surely die eventually.

It takes a while to read the entire topic but after doing so I concluded the following. WoE 2.0 has been like this for quite a while now. Until recently no complaints about this issue have been made. Suddenly now it becomes a huge issue ? Why is this ? It has been used since the start of WoE 2.0. And yes I have seen both parties use it before. and no I'm not in any of the two opposing guilds. The way I see it healing the stones is part of the game. If you want to disable healing the stone then disable the use of all skills on the stone. Only disabling the heal on it will leave it vurnerable for all skills while it cant be healed. Now since there's only one castle open lets compare it to European WoE. In there the emperium easily breaks once every 2-4 minutes maximum (I actually counted and timed the breaks from today's woe). This while some guilds do try to fully defend. Now considering that on these stones skills can be used it will break way faster than the emperium. Not even mentioning that the emperium can still be healed by sanctuary. In other words, there is no way the stone can be defended decently without the ability to heal it. With the current HP from the stones a decent champ can take it down with about 25-30 asuras. Adding magic classes with bolts to that is like a 2min bolt spam by 1 prof + 20 asuras and it's down unless it can be healed. The stone would be able to get taken out by a dedicated group of 3 players. Paladin, prof, and champion. Now imagine an entire guild attacking it. There would be no need at all to kill defenders as the stone would break within a minute or two. Removing the ability to heal it completely ( or removing the basco effect ) is not an option in any way if you want to give the defending guild any chance of keeping the castle. If you do disable the ability to heal the stone then disable all other use of skills on it as well. Or boost it's HP by a big big amount. Also an increase in size should be done no matter what the outcome of this suggestion will be. Honestly all I would like to see is a increase in size. Make it easy to target for the attacking guild. It should fix quite some problems already. Responding to some last-made posts in this topic. I don't think you understood what he said. He responded to the statement that it's possible to heal the stone with the required parts. Which unfortunately is not true. It can only be rebuild with the parts not healed with them. Emps oftenly break by a small groups of 3-5 players vs a fully defending guild. And the emp can be healed by sanctuary. If you remove the ability to heal these stones I think they will break very easily unless more changes will be made such as a hp boost or making it immune to all skills. I lol'd hard. - Immune to Status Change , - Boss Type Immunity to Skills. This my friend means it can not be sucessfully hit by turn undead. even if it had the undead element. Else you would be killing mvps with one turn undead as well.

Oh man Kyle he caught you =D. Either way! Welcome to the server, both of you <3