Shadi

Just because you're unable to argue against my points you refuse to do so. You mean it has no damage and can't even be used effectively? If not. feel free to try it out and see how amazing damage it does. We can move from class to class. Every class has their own issues and the players from those classes learn to deal with it. Tell you what, if you proof to me that SBK (Soulbreaker) with loki's is more effective than rapid shower/desperado, then I'll thumb you up and agree to some additional damage for desperado.You can NOT compare gunslinger to a melee class. Gunslinger has great potential at big range as it is with rapid shower. Having the option to do massive damage on short range as well and ignoring all anti range items/skills is as advantage not a disvantage. But Nilo16 if you want to compare to melee classes , Desperado does about the same burst damage as sonic blow does. There's a difference though you're using a shield while using your desperado. This makes your survivability a lot higher than the Sonic blow sinx' survivability. If you supply me with the gears for a GS , sure I'll proof to you that the class is far from useless. If not, then don't even attempt to force me to play a class. I'm not going to waste my tokens on classes that I personally am not very fond of playing.

Hello everyone, After discussing the recent gunslinger change and comparing the wizard class to other classes I basically comfirmed that the Wizard class has a lot of downsides compared to other classes. To name a few in random order: 1: High wizards have the lowest HP of all classes on the server. with about 130 vit, skolls, 1 tao, friggs and cape, agi bless and +10 all stat food my high wizard reaches 155k hp. Getting the same gears/vit on any other class would get at least 210-220k+ hp. 2: In order to get anywhere near decent damage with High wizards you'll have to use custom hats (none fking set) such as Magic eyes hat. This hat has very nice effects for wizards, however it's only 1 slot and has no immunity to freeze. Yet Wizard's skills need 3 kiels to be able to spam. This leaves wizards(As only class in-game) vurnerable to freeze AND stone on their main gear-set. And that's not all, using this hat means you have to use a huge amount of agi to get max aspd. Many of the wizard's skill depends on attack speed aside from cooldown reduction. In short : Wizard is forced to use custom hats (Loli/Magic eyes, Kafra headband, Piamette), leaves them vurnerable to stone and freeze , forces them to use a ton of agility to get max aspd. 3: As everyone knows wizard's main abilities are completely blocked by GTB. Wizards have to use stave crasher vs them. However, unlike many other classes wizards do not get a +100 or +80 hit bonus on their cape. Forcing them to use a phreeoni card and wasting another weapon card slot. 4: Let's take a look at the current blessed ring for high wizard. High Wizard Blessed Ring: Walking speed +15% Reduce Damage taken from Demihumans by 5% Reduce Vit def by 10% HP +10% SP +10% Matk +20% Int +35 Increase Damage with Cold Bolt by 15% Some pretty neat bonusses right? I agree. However one thing I don't get. Why do we get a bonus on cold bolt? Cold bolt is a skill that's not used by any good wizard as water is one of the elements most used on the server. People will have reductions for it. Aside from that cold bolt spam on a high wizard is really slow, and again I'm missing the hit that wizards actually need for stave crasher. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Now that we've summerized the biggest issues with the wizard class we can start with possible suggestions. I personally have thought of the following with priority on suggestion 1 and 2: 1: Wizard's main issue is their HP atm. I'd like to see an increase on the tao gunka card for wizard classes so they can at least get 200k hp like other classes. Without it only 1-2 reflect hits would kill a wizard. (My prof easily reaches 280k+ hp..) 2: For the second major issue I have thought of the following. Kafraband, Loli hat, Magic eyes, Piamette ears should give immunity to freeze. This will bring the magic classes on par with the melee ones. As for people claiming this would be OP. Physical damage dealers already have this with the ship captain hat, why wouldn't magic classes be able to have it too. Keep in mind the magic classes will still be vurnerable to stone curse (when they try to strip you or stave crash you) and that most of these hat's effects are already disabled for professor. So wizards will be getting the biggest boost from this. I'd also like to suggest a small aspd boost on wiz highness. My wizard currently needs about 140 base agi (this is about 200agi in total) to get 195 aspd with the custom hat. This is a major downside of the wizard class atm. Many donation weapons give 5 to 10 aspd on this server. adding +5 aspd to the weapon should be fine. 3&4: I'd love to see a +80 hit on the cape and a +100 hit on the rings. With that the cursed ring would be perfect. The blessed ring I'd also recommend changing the cold bolt to earth spike damage instead but that's a minor suggestion. Not as big and neccesary as suggestion 1 and 2. Let me know what you think, I'd gladly discuss and elaborate when needed :). Also, consider each suggestion individually. Thank you, Shadi Edit: Editted numbers after testing and confirming.

Firstly, hardly any GS have quit playing GS. Stop basing an entire topic on something you made up. Secondly for the ones that did change classes, It's because GS is no longer a brainless class to play. Before the nerf any brainless person could've played GS as it only took 2 whole buttons to play the class. Now you actually need tactics aka SKILL to play the class. This is why you guys are having trouble with it. You're too used to smacking two buttons constantly that you never even looked at the other possiblities or at changing gears. Every issue you guys threw at me or Ray that you have while playing GS was countered with advice on how to deal with it. It's not that hard, you just have to use your brain during a fight now. You asked me what else they can do. For example they can use a marine sphere card to enable use of magnum break. Hit melee fighters back to keep them out of their attack range while desperado has enough range to hit + they can use the blue ifrit ring vs melee attackers, they can use disarm to strip weapons, they can use cloak to stay safe. They can do so much, it's no longer using 1 item set and just smacking desperado to win.

I don't think you've read through this topic yet. GS easily get 230k+ HP. Comparing that to wizard. Wizards are lucky if they get up to 165k-170k hp. Every class can tank with seeds as long as they don't get 1 hitted. Gunslingers DEFINITELY don't have too little HP. Gunslingers need 3 kiels to spam, and they don't require ship captain hat to do massive damage. Thus, simply using fsoldier solves this for gunslingers. However wizards (and clowns) need to wear different headgears than valk helm to get anywhere close to decent damage. And thus are vurnerable for stone curse. Wizards are screwed even more as their hats don't grant freeze immunity so they get screwed by both stone and freeze.

Could you read through the topic before commenting? Everything we've said has been elaborated without a single counterargument from the other side. So calling the only side with proof and elaborated opinions 'clueless' makes no sense. I haven't seen any "Pro" gunslingers quit the class, aside from that simply smacking desperado all day does not make one pro. If they are quitting the class now it shows that they do not have the skill to use tactics like every other class needed except for GS (which was brainlessly smacking desperado and yggs). True 'Pro' gunslingers will now finally be able to differentiate themselves from the plain buttonsmacking bad players. (there was 0 difference before). The weapon is sold for a lower value than other weapons because there's a ton of gunslinger vali's it's one of the most common valk weapons out there. High supply means lower price.

This would devalue forsaken tokens and thus devalue the use of donating. This would directly effect the rate of donating (less donations) as donating for tokens would no longer have any use. Hunting zeny is extremely easy and being able to 'buy' tokens with zeny would demolish the economy. Keep in mind that donations are the only way to keep the incoming flow of tokens. Remove that and you remove a big portion of all donations + you'd remove any sort of set prices that we currently have.

If all you can do is make sarcastic comments, you might as well just get this topic closed. You're unable to take it that others disagree with you. GS should easily win vs a creator if the GS knows what he's doing. Chemists are easy to counter. LK/Pally is hell for almost any class to kills and gunslingers as the only ranged class that actually has an advantage vs pally over the other ranged classes due to their desperado not being reduced by defender +disarm vs LK. GS's don't have any more disadvantage vs clown/gypsy than other classes do. See... killing profs with a single card, I wonder what would happen if we'd implement one single card to completely counter gunslinger. If you honestly fail to kill a dual wield sinx/katar sinx then please just change classes. Not because the GS class is bad but because It'd be obvious that you have no idea how to use your class if you can't even take those down with GS's insane damage and decent spam. In other words, I know you're just exaggerating with your sarcastic comments because you have nothing solid to bring to the table. The reason why people claim you are complaining and crying is because you made countless of topics, complaining about the change and about how "dead" the class is now. and that so many people were going to leave the game or the class etc etc etc. Wizards have been unpowered for ages now. Do you see me creating topics about how dead the wizard class is and that it's useless etc etc etc? No. Clown's spam has been nerfed for months now, WAY longer than the GS spam. Do you see a ton of clowns complaining about it? No. They simply make one suggestion topic with legit arguments to get it changed and they wait. Unlike the gunslingers (including yourself) that cry about every change. Again, every class has had to deal with nerfs before. You're acting like the GS is completely useless now. While very obviously he's VERY FAR from the worst class on the server.

Oh the sarcasm. How can you imply in this entire topic that GS are underpowered if you've never even tried the other classes and see how they match up to each other? That's the whole idea behind balancing. Making classes equal. Giving every class a chance while keeping the original advantages some classes are supposed to have over others. Edit: I'm glad to see that you have absolutely nothing to post regarding my comparison and were only able to make some sarcastic comments. Proofs my point I suppose :).

In all honesty, I simply can't believe this topic. The current spamrate is fine (it's way better than AV and SBK on loki's) and the damage is a ton higher than AV and sbk and you even got your damage compensation for the lack of spam. You are simply having issues fighting melee classes because you're used to doing nothing aside from smacking one button to spam desperado. Now that it doesn't simply drop everyone anymore you might actually need some tactics like every other class does. The post above mine already gave you some clues on what you can do. Also keep in mind that the blue ifrit ring is a great counter to any physical attacker. If you think gunslingers are UP with their changes, try playing an SBK sinx or a high wizard and see how 'UP' gunslingers really are compared to them. No survivability? A GS can easy reach 230k+ hp and wear a shield on this server. That's no survivability? Since you guys have been asking for it so much let's compare. A gunslinger with 1 tao easily reaches 230k hp.[/size] A gunslinger has high burst damage that can not be blocked easily unless the class possesses the safety wall skill. And even then you can still hit and burst/ use other skills for high damage. A gunslinger can wear shields while normally they can't. A gunslinger can disarm a weapon even easier than a stalker can A gunslinger can have high damage even on just Fset A gunslinger doesn't need much agi to get max aspd due to being dex based. Now lets compare it to the class I main. A high wiz with 1 tao with the same vit as the above gunslinger + skolls + friggs + cape. Is lucky if he reaches 165-170k hp. A high wiz's main damage output can be completely blocked with the use of 1 card. And their alternative attacking methods blocked with 1 skill (And there's also a card that autocasts this skill). In other words really easy to reduce/evade their damage. A high wiz can carry a shield, but that no longer gives them advantages compared to other classes. The classes they used to own are now tough opponents due to them having shields as well. ( don't read this wrong, I'm not complaining about the use of shields, I'm just stating class balancing facts.) A high wiz has to melee attack to strip a weapon or shield. A high wiz has very low damage output on fset and needs lolihat/kafra headband or such to get decent damage. This renders them with only 3 headgear slots while they need 3 kiels to spam. So they are vurnerable to stone curse AND freeze. A high wiz needs a huge amount of agi to get max attackspeed due to the use of the custom hats instead of a full fset. This renders them even more useless. Lacking str to carry things and lacking vit to get anywhere near decent survivability. My conclusion. Gunslingers, compared to several other classes are completely fine and don't need even more boosts.

Wrong, You can not stack up the 10%'s with each other. Ragnarok calculations don't work that way. It does take 10% of each from the base damage, This in no way means it adds up to 40%. If your stacking calculations were correct, you could wear usakoring fshield, sacreds and laughing poopoo hat to have way over 100% reductions. Each racial/size/element/etc is calculated individually based on base damage and thus you can not combine the 10%'s. I personally agree with boosting the sacreds or making them a requirement for a better item. However the suggested stats (to me) don't seem as much of a boost for me to prefer the sacreds over lets say a cape or ring.

Gunslingers are supposed to be a burst class with low survivability. However on here they had extremely high burst and quite HIGH survivability. I don't consider them a bursting class on this server really. If I want to obtain dps like a gunslinger on my wizard my HP would not go above 110k and I'd risk being reflected cause none of the wiz skills would be able to reach the gs's damage aside from JT or perhaps bolt spam. That's what you call squishy. Not a easy 220k+ hp that you get on gunslinger with 1 tao. As it should be. You shouldn't be able to burst everything down in second by smacking one button. You should have difficulty surviving because your damage was and still is way beyond other classes. Autoguard and level 5 safetywall would be extremely overpowered and you already have a 1h pistol + shield... Adding even more reductions to a class that already has normal survivability and the highest burst damage is a nono for me. I'll stick to another point. If gunslingers are getting a good compensation then clowns should get one too. They've had major nerfs to their ability to spam, they've made constructive topics on how to improve the class and have had to deal with this issue for months longer than the gunslinger class already.

Would be worth testing, though the current spamrate is fine imo. Heck no. If things like these are done other jobs will want the same. What about clown/gypsy ? They still need to use 3 slots for kiels and they still have bad spam. Yet they're vurnerable. Probably the best option. If this would be possible it'd be the best option. However the skill's delay would have to be really high server-sided and this would have to be tested intensively.

Don't use skoll on superbaby supernovice. You won't have more than 100 vit and the % hp it adds is from base HP which means from the 6k hp you have without the tao's so it's basically useless to wear skolls. Wear double tao gunka in armor, double raydric in manteau to survive asura, double noxious vs ranged characters. Save up money to get urds with imp or siroma cards (I'd recommend imp because box of storms is a heavily used converter in pvp. chances are that people have water reductions ready). wear 2x fbh again firelock is hardly adding anything as it's off your base hp not your total hp.

I believe I brought this issue up both in-game and on the forums already. The lack of arrow vulcan spam causes nearly all clowns to switch to reduction builds and simply and brainlessly spam tarot all day to win a fight. I don't know who told you this, but that person has no idea what he's talking about. Arrow vulcan can be consistent, yes. But the way right now it's possible to consistenly do 2-3 av's. Not more than that. 4 is a very very rare exception when being stunlocked. anyone that does 5 av's is using a third party program/cheating tools/ (which is obviously illegal) or they are animation cancelling (which is also illegal at this moment. (being discussed). Report any clown/gypsy that's doing 5 avs. My own spam is pretty consistent on 3's. But that's not going to kill anyone. Even gtb users can oftenly ygg through a spam of 3 avs. I also know it's not my net causing it because before the changes I was able to do 4-5 very often and even 6 at rare occasions when being completely stunlocked. Now I don't want to revert things back to that spam because with the newer gears and such it'd be too overpowered. my personal preferation is to allow clowns/gypsies to cancel their animation within the game's own mechanics. (Just like champs and other jobs are allowed to cancel theirs, example Zen cancels out the fury sprite, zen cancels out the fo sprite. by using zen they remove the sprite delay from the other skills. (imo they should be allowed to do so, it's a key part of the game's mechanics. Without this being allowed/used champs would be useless) Clowns can do such a thing too, even though it's a lot harder to use it effectively and it needs a lot more keys, but once you get used to it it can pretty much give you (slightly slower) but constant spam. I already demonstrated this to Veracity and she informed me that allowing it or not allowing it will be discussed with Genesis. As for now, however, clowns are not allowed to use the tactic. Bottom line: Arrow vulcan is one of those skills that are insanely hard to balance. Right now it's slightly underpowered but a slightest change can make it overpowered already. I personally think allowing clowns/gypsy to cancel their sprite (within the game mechanics , not by illegal crap of course, these 2 are very easy to differentiate when watching the clown/gypsy) would be the best step to take at this moment. Reasoning for this opinion is the fact that it doesn't require any changes to the server at this time, it's only a change of rules which can easily be reverted when it turns out to be too strong. Other examples of classes cancelling sprites: Sniper using falcon eyes to remove delay from arrow shower Priest side-step walking to reduce delay on the heal skill Flying side kick/mild wind to cancel out tumbling sprite

What is this about? I already left a comment sharing my opinion on the matter. I'm not sure what you're goaling at now.

Disagree, Sonic blow is overpowered as it is already. There's absolutely no reason to buff it even more in my opinion.

It is possible to enable/disable certain skills on woe maps. However I'm not sure if there are mapflags to increase the delay of a certain skill at all. There's no need at the moment to nerf any other skill. Desperado was the only skill with 0 delay with this many hits that was being (ab)used in WoE which caused the client to lag. Yes this change hurts gunslingers, in my opinion their spam is still decent but either way this change is not final. There will be conpensations in the lack of spam and in my personal opinion the gunslinger players should be happy and grateful that they get compensation for the loss of spam. Clowns/gypsies lost their spam completely and did not get compensated for it. I don't see them complaining as much on the forums though. The only way this would be possible is by a massive server-side delay to the desperado skill. I'm not sure about any side-effects of this though. I'm pretty sure Genesis considered this though but opted for the different approach.

Correct me when I'm wrong, but when the admins say "lag" they mean lag caused by the client handling the damage calculations, not the lag caused by sprite effects (Yes, these are different). The damage calculations are client-wise and none hardware related, however the lag caused by sprites is hardware related and thus on less powerful computers sprite lag aka graphic lag is reduced by disabling effects. The client-calculations(none hardware related) lag however can not be reduced by turning off effects and everyone has this lag. Just some players feel the lag a lot more than others due to the role they have in WoE. For example an GS spamming desperado won't feel the lag much, if at all. however a sinx trying to get to the emp will feel the lag caused by the endless spam of multiple gunslingers spamming desperado. There's no other skill in this game that had that many hits + such a high spamrate and that is actually massively (ab)used during WoE. For the ones saying "get a better computer" The lag caused by client calculations has nothing to do with the computer you run it on. The computer's speed is limited by the client's speed and thus you can have a i7 4.0ghz quad core, 16gb+ of ram, Nvidia geforce titan and whatnot, you will still feel the lag caused by the client.

I actually believe tarot should be nerfed a bit and arrow vulcan should be boosted to balance out their damage and ability to debuff enemies. Right now a clown that goes (semi) reductions and only spams tarot card 24/7 wins fights eventually. However a clown that's more focussed on using AV is utterly useless. And even on gtb the arrow vulcan can be outygged too easily. This is why I believe tarot should be nerfed (either reduced effects or smaller succes chance) and arrow vulcan should be boosted (either damage wise or spam wise, or even just allowing the song cancelling) Too bad the max amount of av's legitly is 3 due to the current hard delay.

I would prefer the clown/gypsy screaming out the card name instead of using the chat option. It would just flood the chat way too much. However I do not see this as the main reason why gypsy/clown are not played. In my opinion all gypsies/clowns can do right now is spam tarot, because the spamrate of arrow vulcan is horrible and the sprite cancelling by playing songs is not allowed to be used. So basically all you see is full reduction clowns spamming tarot...

I can agree with both, don't mind which option would be picked just one of them is fine to me. Making it last for multiple casts would be good. Also having the instant cast will not be too much at all. There's a set delay after casting it which makes you unable to cast anything right after the skill, it's not like you could combo it fast even if it had instant cast. This is the biggest thing wizards need. A full damage wizard has less than 120k hp. With tao you hardly reach 170k hp and you can't carry a lot either unless you want to lower that hp even more and get strength. Wizards need a major HP boost to be viable. Sure you can boost damage of JT but reflecting 1 JT and the wizard is dead. Hence why you don't see any wizard use single target spells in pvp. Prof's can survive 2 to 3 reflects, Wizards hardly survive 1. Bringing wizard HP on par with professor is nothing but fair. Professors still have the major advantage of their defensive skills. Wizards damage is indeed low compared to other jobs using magic. I could even say they are the forth highest magic damage dealers as supernovices can reach about the same damage as wizards, however supernovices have 600k HP so reflect is no problem for them. Both mind sound fun but are useless without a major HP boost. Also if you want to make napalm vulcan useful it needs to be a lot more spammable than it is now. My 2 cents, Shadi/Drae

1. Emp HP: Stays/Lower/Revert to 250m Emp's (without being fully defended) right now can break within 2 minutes. To be exact last US woe the payon castle broke at 58:10 then broke again at 59:55. This is however on a castle without stronghold (For the ones that don't know, you can invest in a castle, not only on economy but also on stronghold which highers your emp's HP.) My suggestion would be letting the base HP (I believe it's 1.8bil atm) stay the same but removing the option to increase it with stronghold. This way the emp will always have the same amount of HP and not differentiate depending on how long someone has had the castle. Because, lets be honest. The castles without invested stronghold all break easily. (Aldebaran, payon and EU's geffen) 2. Castle Drop: Rares, tickets I agree on a small increase of droprates and an upgrade in the amount of tickets dropping from red boxes to 6 each (used to be 7 back in the day, now it's 4) 3. Woe Schedule: Timing of the WoEs, castle numbers I think most WoE times are alright for the EU crowd, aside from the EU WoE on friday. This WoE is held when every EU player is still in class or at work. I saw someone else suggesting a change to the WoE 2.0 times. I highly doubt europeans need a change to that time. Considering it's on saturday morning from 1 to 2 am, with the weekend up ahead it seems doable for me. Perhaps make it 1 or 2 hours earlier but that's about it. 4. Alliance/Guild Cap It's all about the guildleader's mentality. Instead of wanting a challenge they prefer waiting at the emp for an entire hour and securing their castle. It's understandable, cause they want the drops. But at the same time it ruins fun for everyone that plays woe for fun instead of drops only. Bluntly said, the guildleaders need to grow some ....., I don't think it's up to the administration to change anything about it. Though in my opinion WoE would be better off without any alliances possible.

Anyone else wants to share their opinion this this matter?

Anyone else wants to share their opinion on this matter ?

Seems like nobody is actually disagreeing with this anymore. Hope it'll be looked into soon :)