Shadi

Seems like everyone agrees with it. :)

Bumping this to bring it back to attention.

Not sure if I want to agree with this or not. It is a fact that stave crasher needs hit to be effective. this is also why I requested hit on the wizard cape/ring. Comparing wizards to profs however, profs are supposed to be the more defensive class of the two. Yet they deal more damage and have a lot more HP and have all the defensive skills. The fact that professors (because of voluspa) are able to cast stave crasher and actually do more damage with it than the class that originally has the skill rather bugs me. I'm a bit in a dilemma regarding this. I personally don't think professors really need the boost but at the same time due to playing wizard I do know where you're coming from. Convince me?

Agree with pretty much all you said except for this part. if your damage reaches as low as 3k each shield chain it'll be easy to tank. Also the spam rate of shield chain is very very low compared to most other skills on the server. It is easily tankable but it isn't such a big deal if you consider the HP and survivability + other options paladins have.

The last battle palladin I saw used thanatos + holy cross. Anyone switching to skolls would be hit for at least 5k-5.5k shield chain hits and the pally had the legendary weapon not the odins. Shield chain hits 5x so 5x5k = 25k each. In my opinion that's very solid damage considering how tanky paladins are at the same time and the amount of seeds they can carry with a str build. Now to talk about the counters you mentioned. Switching to raydrics would make thana do lots of damage, switching to skolls would let SC do decent damage. If they go usakoring shield, ghostring armor, skoll/immune manteau and ring. Then you might do low damage, however with pallies tankyness you can outlast them or simply outlast their fcp and strip their shield to whoop their asses with your own shield afterwards. There's a lot more to pallies than brute damage. Use your other advantages. You can guard hits, reduce ranged damage, you can make melee enemies bounce backwards with shrink (this way you can constantly bounce them back while spamming shield chain. If they want to counter it they'd have to use rsx. and that means no tao or no ghost). You can switch to massive reflect or if you simply want to outlast them. Use kiels and spam gloria domini to drain their sp and make them waste supplies :D.

Waiting for acceptation/rejection now :).

All links on this server have the original effect. I think only the sinx link was altered to a slightly lower buff. You can find the original skill effects at ratemyserver.net

I personally think shield chain is fine as it is. It could get a small boost but if you know how to use the class (and are rich enough to play a battle pally) then you shouldn't have any issues. 1: I highly disagree with this. This would actually weaken paladins more than it'll boost them. Paladins right now can holy cross with thana to force skolls, then shield chain does more damage. Making shield chain have the thanatos effect as well renders paladins useless against someone with skolls. As shield chain would no longer do decent damage on skoll users and holy cross is too weak to be effective without thanatos card. 2: The % boosts that we have on shield chain right now should be toned down if we allow shield chain to have an element. Otherwise it would be doing constant 20k+ hits x 5 = 100k each shield chain. But again I don't really think shield chain needs a boost. The main issue battle paladins have is that you MUST have a thana card to be effective. Even though I don't agree with making thanatos card needed to play a certain build from a class it is unfortunately this way with paladins and certain other class builds as well.

@rayray : I'm probably going to try and buy the ring as I don't have time to do all the hunting and questing. Hi gagosila, thank you for your input :). I see that you don't really agree with my suggestion number 2. However your reasoning is a bit unclear to me. The changes I suggest to the hats make it so you no longer have to constantly fall back onto the forsaken king set. In your post you acknowledge the exact issue that I pointed out. You said The fact that wizards get forced to either wasting a ton of stat points to get decent damage and max attack speed (with the loli/magic eyes hats etc) but are therefor really vurnerable (high agi, low hp, freezeable, stonecurseable) or sticking to low damage with still rather bad survivability but at least immunity to freeze/stone curse (fset) is wrong. By adding immunity to freeze to the hats and attackspeed to the weapon you allow wizards to actually use the hats that they have to use to gain any sort of decent damage while still retaining decent survivability and also still keeping weaknesses such as being able to get stone cursed out there. My suggestion basically said the same thing, cold bolt won't help high wizards a lot. I'd love more matk but I don't want to make the wizard class overpowered. I just want to get them on par with other classes so I prefer not changing the ring along with suggestion 1 and 2. At least not in 1 go.

Yup it's fun to see that people still remember it. Soon it'll be back :) I'm in the progres of catching up with gears again (ring and urds) and maining wizard once more. True that. And lets not forget that magic is instantly blocked with the use of gtb, or easily countered with a card like maya. While physical damage can not be evaded/reduced as easily. I added kafra for 1 reason: Why on earth would you get kafra if you can still get frozen ? XD; that's basically suicide vs any good player. + it doesn't add stats so you'll need even more agi for max aspd, and even less HP than with loli hat etc. Agreed survivability first, then the others. However adding just HP will not be enough. being freezable, no matter how much HP you have ruins any chances of winning during a fight. Switching to fset makes your stave crasher damage way too low to fight gtbers. Yup you got the complete point I was trying to make :) Thank you , I very much hope these changes will be made and give wizards a good fighting chance again.

I'm sorry I meant the difference between goldenring and thanatos considering that thanatos does NOT have the TG effect. It has the goldenring effect. (if it would've been TG effect it would've been actually useful.). I asked for your boot cards because racial modifiers don't go over 100%. Meaning if you'd use 1 fbh and 2 thana. the second thana would basically not do anything due to fbh+thana+dorcus. Keep in mind all % based boosts are based on base damage. changing a tg (20% to 28% with thana) does NOT make an 8% increase in total damage. It takes the bonus from the base damage. The base damage is the damage you do based on your stats only without calculations from your gear. So lets say you do 50k asura without your gears on and 120k with your gears on without the tg card. By changing your weapon and adding tg you'd now do 130k asura. This because the bonus damage is based on 20% of your base damage. So 20% from 50k. = 10k. You had 120k before now you'd do 130k. Now if we take that into knowledge and compare the damages from tg and thana. Taking the above sample again. 50k base asura without gears. Normally 120k with gears. Adding a thana instead of a tg would grant you a total damage of 134k. Because thana gives 28% of that 50k base damage = 14k. 120k+14k = 134k. So changing from tg to thana only gave you a 4k bonus in my example.

The difference between tg and thana is only like 2% And it takes 2% of the base damage. Therefore you'll hardly even notice the difference. Either way to make sure what cards are you using on your boots during these tests ? :)

Hello Railgun, thank you for your feedback. As for my response. 1: I'm glad you agree with the HP boost as well :) 2: Yes, they do boost matk very high. However, so does ship captain hat for melee power. Keep in mind that 20% more physical damage works in multiple ways including race modifiers. Magic has no race modifiers and thus the bonus is higher. Consider fbh's as well. Physical classes get +100% dmg vs demi human while wizard only gets a 20% matk boost with 2 of them. Also yes we can mind breaker ourselfs. However that effects lasts a few seconds, Not as long as provoke and double attack from gospell. You can not start balancing based on buffs from outside classes. If we were going to do that we'd have to half all physical damage dealing characters' damage. So that is out of the question. You have to balance a class based on how good it is in all scenario's pvp but also group fights. In group fights wizards might be good combo'd with other classes, alone they are utterly crap. + Magic classes only have mind breaker while physical classes have: Power thrust, Weapon perfection, imposito manus, provoke and gospell. Physical damage dealers can increase their damage with buffs a lot more than magic ones. So again you can not start balancing on that. I'll let you in on a little secret. I also remember the wizard Drae being able to wipe people. However I know drae only had 110k hp with a total of 200 vit and being on 2 salamander cards (so no skoll), freezable and stonecurse-able to be able to do so. In other words, going for that much damage leaves you 1 hittable for pretty much every thana user or any asura or 2-3 Acid demonstrations. + to get the high damage he also had no tao or ghostring. If you want to know how I know, the answer is simple. I am Drae. I am asking for immunity for freeze not stone curse due to 2 reasons : 1: Ship captain hat gives the same immunity to freeze not stone curse. Why would melee classes be allowed to have a hat with massive boost to their damage and freeze immune while magic classes have to get immunity to stone curse instead, Even though melee classes attack with melee attacks a lot more. If you really want to make a difference between melee and magic. Then magic should get the immunity to freeze and melee to stone curse. 2: Without freeze immunity you will either 1: Render rings/capes/ballons completely but I really mean completely useless. Because you will be able to get frozen, or you'll be limited to fhelm and have very very low damage. Magic eyes hat and scarf is pretty much even to ring + fhelm, so why would you waste an insane amount of tokens or real money on a cape/ring if it won't give any advantages? OR you can use anti freeze in armor leaving you with either no tao or no ghost. This will leave wizards even more squishy than they already are. 3: I get your point on this one with the cold bolt. It's not as big of an issue as I've mentioned as well. Cold bolt works, it's just not as effective. Yet this change is less important than 1 and 2.

Yes very interesting. Let's make arrow vulcan and musical strike and all songs usable with bows as well and lets use spiral pierce with our 1 handed LK sword :D! Get my point ? XD; Once one job gets priviledges like that, others will want to follow.

@rayray Thanks for the indication. That effect would certainly help a bunch. If I can get my hands on a doppelganger card I'll test it, just to double check :) This is exactly why I stated to see each suggestion up there individually. Giving only hp, or only the aspd will still render the wizard class far beneath others. Getting both effects will grant them a very nice boost that should bring them on par. :)[/size]

Hello all, I'm looking to sell my champion blessed ring valued at 3k. I would also take a trade for butterfly aura (preferably green, black or white) + 1.7k. I'm also willing to trade for a wizard cursed ring + ??. Just respond here or contact Drae in-game if you're interested in any of these trades. :) Thank you, Shadi

Hello all, I'd like to buy a butterfly aura. Leave your price here :). My prefered colors are green, black or white. I would also take a trade your butterfly aura +1.7k for my champ blessed ring. I'm also looking to buy a cursed wiz ring. I already have the cape so I'd preferably deal my cape + ?? for the ring. Just respond here or contact Drae in-game if you're interested in any of these trades. :) Thank you, Shadi

Hello all, I'm looking to sell my champion blessed ring valued at 3k. I would also take a trade for butterfly aura (preferably green) + 1.7k. If the above trade is not suitable I'd like to buy a butterfly aura. Leave your price here :). I'm also looking to buy a cursed wiz ring. I already have the cape so I'd preferably deal my cape + ?? for the ring. Just respond here or contact Drae in-game if you're interested in any of these trades. :) Thank you, Shadi

Thank you all for the input so far, I also assumed the cold bolt buff was due to the siroma cards. However, as explained, wizards don't benefit from it as much as other classes do. That's also the reason why I suggested to change it :) This however is one of the less important suggestions. I'm glad to see everyone agrees that wizards truly lack HP and that the custom hat issue is acknowledged as well. These 2 are major issues of the wizard class and I hope to get this changed. @rayray I'd have to test and see how much effect doppelganger card would have to agree/disagree with it.

The massive amount of gunslingers on one map, spamming desperado caused lag due to the huge amount of damage calculations. The client simply wasn't able to handle it. This is (part of) the reason it was nerfed. I agree with basically everything Sensation mentioned in his post.

20% guard is only 10% less than max level guard on paladins. It'd be way too OP to add that to a powerhouse class like gunslinger. Adding guard to any class with good offensive abilities would be out of the question imo. [/size] If your skill was really melee it would've been reflected by OL. It has a range, a range that's bigger than autoattack range for melee classes. Yet it's not effected by anti range items/skills. This is a huge advantage that GS have. You don't have to be up real close to get a kill, that's the exact problem with the playstyle you're trying to have. You need to keep the melee classes off you as much as possible. This is easily doable with the right gears ( use magnum break !?!?! Horong ? Speed potions? ). You have a very solid range attack AND a ranged strip. You are definitely not a melee class, stop saying that.[/size] Let's not. You are suggesting a change to a class. Every class is in direct connection with other classes. All connections together form the entire class balance. Classes are balanced based on comparisons between the classes. So counting out all other classes makes it hard to get 'class balance'. Aside from that you're suggesting skills from other classes to be enabled for your class. Don't you think the original classes that normally own the skill are effected by this? For example take the creator class. This class used to have a big advantage being able to carry a lot more supplies than other classes. After other classes got the enlarge weight limit as well creators suddenly carry a lot less supplies (yggs) compared to the other classes because they have to carry bottles as well with the same maximum weight as other classes that don't have to carry bottles. So the adding of one skill from one job onto another indirectly nerfed the original class that had the skill.[/size]

Summarizing what has been said already: 1: Comparing gunslingers to other classes, their survivability is more than fine. 2: Gunslinger is not a melee class. the fact that you ignore anti range items/skills by having a short range skill as well is an advantage not an disvantage. You can not consider gunslingers as a melee class as they have 0 melee skills. They have a short range skill, yes but that doesn't mean gunslingers are a melee class. That's like saying bow stalkers are a melee class because backstab and full strip are at melee range.... 3: I can only highly assume this is a joke. 20% damage reduction can make gunslingers huge tanks. And why on earth would we add a 20% chance to guard on a class that does massive damage. Paladins have these defensive skills cause they are a defensive class and in general their damage is very low. Gunslingers are the opposite. They are supposed to be glass cannons. High damage, low survivability. On this server by granting them shields and a big HP boost they have high damage and decent to high survivability. They do not need any buffs. Gungslingers have 1: One of the highest damage outputs on the server 2: Decent survivability 3: Decent mix of long range and short range attacks 4: No item-wise hard-counter. 5: No need to wear items that make them vurnerable Bottom line: Gunslingers are still a top tier class, and there's many other jobs that need a boost/balancing a lot more than gunslinger does.

Try starting your client in administrator mode instead. The alt+m commands are saved within your registery files. Without administrator rights you will not be able to apply changes to registery files.

Wait.. How does one disagree with a fact? The only way to get tokens into the game is through donating. Adding more ways to allow tokens to get into the game would greatly reduce donations and devalue the tokens as well.

Oh god.. really... Arguing with you has no use. I didn't tell you to get the most expensive items ever. Did I ? Cards are part of the gears. I'm not going to buy multiple tg's and another item set just to proof that you're a bad player. I have plenty of experience with every single job there is. I know how things work. Just because you are currently playing the class doesn't mean you're amazing at it. Obviously you didn't even know the basics so we had to explain that to you previously in this topic. So please stop making useless posts and arguments about me having to play gunslinger for you because you don't know how to. Want me to play it? Get me the gears, if not. Then stop your bitching about "Oh I'm so pro don't argue with me". I'm not the one crying for more buffs even though the class is already more than fine. It is funny that us "None GS players" know more about the class than the ones currently playing it.