Shadi

I've never mentioned that I support this suggestion because I don't want to switch boots. Switching boots has nothing but literally nothing to do with my intentions of supporting this suggestion. The reason why I agree with this is because it's logical and rational thinking that silver FBH should in no circumstances be better than the real FBH. Nowhere in this topic have I seen one legit arguement from you why it shouldn't be accepted other than "l2play and go swap boots" which makes no sense. I don't even play a bolter prof yet I agree with this suggestion entirely based on the fact that FBH's have a huge downside but the bonus it gives to physical damage dealers is many many times higher than the bonus it gives to magic users (profs in this case). Compare 100% extra damage to 0% extra damage. Adding up with the changed spam rate, this gives physical damage dealers an even bigger advantage over magic damage dealers. Now for all other magic classes this is no problem because the fbh actually gives the full 10% effect for them. However for profs it's 0% meaning the only reason you'd wear it is for stave crasher. At all other times uber poporing would be on so damage wise it would be EXACTLY the same except for the stave crasher skill. All in all bolter profs atm are insanely easy to counter as gtb blocks all magic and their stave damage would never be high enough to kill someone that pays a little bit of attention to his hp. The ONLY thing this suggestion would do is boost up the stave crasher damage a bit. Nothing more than that. What's so bad about that? It's actually agreed upon by a majority in a different topic to boost the damage of this skill anyway. This would be a fair way to do it. Also nobody in this topic is complaining. Something has been suggested and is now being discussed. How is any of this complaining? It's merely stating facts and backing up the arguement. Please if you want to back up your arguement come up with something else than a "l2play". that's not a valid arguement. At least not one that counters any of mine.

1: The damage before had to get lowered due to the spam rate (BN users etc). The spam rate now requires more kiels than before. Unless you use all your headgear slots for kiels and/or give up 1 maybe even 2 accesories you will not be able to obtain the same spam as before. This leaves professors extremely vurnerable or render them to have lower dps. 2: You will NOT notice any damage difference if you give this boost to fbh. Why ? because people atm are already using silver fbh or uber poporing to get the 5% and since the demi human % effect does not work for magic skills the damage with them using fbh or uberpoporing would be the exact same. The only difference you'd notice is a small increase to the stave crasher damage which is actually even suggested in a different topic and seems to be agreed with by the majority. .... Silver FBH is not only used by professors. It's also used by newer people to play physical damage dealing classes. You can't jusy remove the silver cards. They're a great way for newer players to gear up. So basically what we're having here is that obviously it's fair that melee classes get a 100% damage bonus in exchange of -100% base sp. And it's also fair that magic classes get 0% damage bonus in exchange to -100% base SP. That makes a lot of sense. We're not asking to change it back to 10% we're asking to make it on-par with silver fbh matk wise. Besides the new spam rate is way way slower than the old one. So the average dps from professor has already dropped significantly.

You really don't get it do you -.-..... For MAGIC CLASSES the current SILVER FBH is better than the REAL FBH. This is NOT the way it's supposed to be. the SILVER mvp cards are supposed to have HALF the effect from the REAL FBH. We are NOT comparing silver fbh to uber poporing we're comparing silver FBH to the REAL fbh. Silver FBH giving 5% matk. and the REAL one gives 0% <--- See the difference. SILVER is better than the REAL one for magic users because the additional damage % to demi human does NOT work for magic skills. Hence why MATK is added to the fbh cards in the first place. It is retarded to hide behind the "it will kill the silver fbh market" excuse. because 1: there hardly is a market for it. 2: The card is NOT SUPPOSED to be better than the real FBH so if there's a market for them it would only be based on the fact that this somewhat forgotten nerf was applied and because the card is unrightfully/unintentionally better than the card it was inspired by.

So basically you're saying silver FBH should be better than regular FBH because else silver fbh's eco would get bad ? That makes no sense at all. Silver mvp cards are supposed to have half the effect of the real cards. They should NOT be better. If you want to keep silver as it is then that's fine with me. But lets make the silver actually 50% of the effect like it should be then. That means giving FBH the 10% back. Which will probably cause more people to complain, hence why it was suggested to make it even to the silver(read weaker) version of the card.

Highpriests were never an issue before the delay change and since holy light is extremely easy to counter, I do not see a reason to have a requirement of 4 kiels to spam it. However I'm not sure if the delay from individual skills can be changed or if all skill delays have a global setting now. Either way if it's possible I'd say remove the delay from holy light (and all other skills that are supposed to have aspd delay only, such as flying side kick)

Adding donation items as a pvp reward does not seem like a smart idea either. Specially considering the incoming funds to the server o__o;

That's not the point......Silver fbh is not supposed to give a bigger boost than regular FBH. That's like giving silver kiel 50% after cast delay instead of the regular kiel effect. Makes no sense ? Besides what's the big deal about adding 5% matk to fbh while they're supposed to have 10% in the first place. Bolter profs are extremely vurnerable now after the delay change, needing 4 kiels to spam with somewhat the speed they used to spam with makes them very vurnerable to status effects. Profs that would default this would give up almost 100% base sp (with 2fbh) for 10% matk. This would be more of an advantage to the enemy than the prof as his energycoat will fade in 2-4 seconds of being hit. 10% matk compared to 100% more damage all physical damage classes can deal. Doesn't seem like a too fair exchange for the magic classes. But at least it's better than letting fbh's only be useful with stave crasher.

He's asking to half the reducement of matk on the card by 5%. Right now the FBH card gives 0% matk to professors. While the silver fbh card gives 5% matk to professors. How does this make sense ? At least make the FBH card give the 5% as well if 10% is too much.

The point made about Silver FBH makes no sense. Silver FBH should be worse than the real FBH. Not better than the real FBH. So how is that a legit argument ? At LEAST give the regular fbh the same matk boost as the silver one. And that's only 5%. Honestly I think 5% matk for magic classes is doable exchange with losing 50% mana as well.... Keep in mind ALL physical classes get a 50% damage boost from this card. The magic % bonus was there to make up for the imbalancing of the card between magic users and physical damage dealers.

I'm definitely not going back to bolting prof. Actually I never liked bolting prof as much, it's so darn boring. I even went PD/survivability/webber prof over bolter prof for WoE and such. So nope. Can't agree with you that I'm ending up as a full bolter build.

There's a few essential items for battle prof on this server yes. But once you have those I'm convinced battle profs can be a fierce opponent to a lot of classes due to decent damage output and nice survivability skills as well. Therefore I prefer not changing the mentioned ring as I love having a second way to play professors , other than bolting. Battle profs sure are a lot more fun to play.

I very very very much love the current effect and would hate to see it changed to the suggested stats in the first post. I'm actually on the hunt to get this item and cant wait to see how it turns out using this instead of my balloon. I'm sure it will be epic and I love the thought that has been put into this ring. I've been waiting for quite a while for a boost to battle profs instead of bolter profs and this item might just do it ! I don't think I've seen Zero's melee prof yet but I know that mine has no trouble killing people so far.

I can agree to this now it requires 4 kiels to spam effectively + the demi human add only works for stave/melee while other classes got all their physical damage boosted by the card by 50% I don't think 5% matk would be gamebreaking. Specially now it's a lot easier to counter full bolting profs anyway.

Question. If we implement this what will happen to the Miracle skill ?

1: You don't know all my characters, so you have no idea whether I'm actually playing or not. Really Aki you need to personally attack someone to make a point ? Sad, very low :(. 2: Stop going full damage against a full reduction user. Start using your brain and use different tactiques. Force them to change usakoring into gtb for example. And vs all jobs except stalker pretty much you can use stone armor, or freeze the target as well with the mentioned set. Them having to counter that either forces them to not be able to spam at all, or have less reductions, or give up an armor slot and therefore lessen survivability and rendering them killable. 3: The only job these reductions could be close to OP with are stalkers. All other jobs can easily be killed when using any sort of tactiques instead of brainlessly trying to outdamage their reductions. Nerf the combination on stalker or the stalkers soaring bow. Not the set or hat in general.

I'll have to disagree with this suggestion. It's still easy to kill people even when they have all those gears equipped. And lets not forget that equipping this headgear gives disadvantages as well. You no longer have the forsaken king set on so you can freeze unless you give up an armor slot, you give up an additional headgear slot causing you to no longer have 4 kiels and/or be vurnerable to stone curse. You do no longer have the forsaken king set bonusses/stat bonusses of the helm. Meaning you'd need a damn lot more agi to get to max aspd while wearing this hat. All of the above combined I think the hat has more than enough disadvantages as it is and in return it gives a decent amount of reductions. Without the hat the gearset Sacred, skull aura + friggs remains which is easily killable.

Sure, I don't see why not. Agree to this suggestion :3

@Zer0 Thanks mate :3. Just saying... by giving these examples you show that "getting stunlocked" is not a valid reason to disagree with the bottle change. Obviously other classes can stunlock as well and they are way harder to counter than Chemist's stunlock. Specially the LK is not counterable as easy. @Kuoch: Macro's are illegal. Adding them as an arguement in a balancing suggestion/topic is rediculous. When suggesting something you should base it on official and legit gameplay. Not the fact that some people might abuse it by cheating. It's the same as saying remove spiral pierce cause with macro it's perma stunlock ! At least vs chemists you can use autopneuma and they'll have to get close to get you out. While LK can easily get you out of it. Aside from that you can easily wear an rsx vs a chemist. While using it vs LK means suicide.

Adding a sword/dagger seems unneccesary as the bow is 1 handed and you gain more attack using a bow + dex, than a sword + str on a stalker. However I would like to see the requirement of hide removed. I'd also like to see the backstab requirement to be behind the target removed (or removal of the turning around effect after BS but keep it at the current melee range). Now some people may find this OP this is why I would suggest giving the backstab and raid skill a delay, a delay however that can be reduced by using kiel cards like with almost all skills. That way if you want to spam them you'd still be rather vurnerable because you will be using your headgear slots for kiel cards just like other jobs. However all these sort of changes would require source edits which (unless really neccesary) won't be done a lot. Also you should know that raid was never meant to be a skill to deal massive damage with. It was a skill to inclict statusses (mostly stun) to your opponent and a skill to get people out of cloaking. It was and never has been used as main damage output.

It's true that officially this skill's cooldown is based on aspd. and aspd alone. I would have to see if the current delay is do-able for taekwon/star glads but considering the lack of star glads and taekwons already I would say removing the delay on fsk wouldn't hurt anyone it would only open another semi-viable class to play. (Still wishing for the hatred reset or re-cast ability) :3.

I very very very very much prefer the basic and older layout. The applying skillpoints is just insanely annoying as it resets each time you gain a level or do anything. So you cant be leveling your skills up while leveling up your character at the same time. it'll slow training down slightly , specially when being leeched. Aside from that I really do not like the "forced" bm that renewal gave. So I'm sorry I'll have to disagree with this suggestion.

Personally I'd love to see the bottles unlimited just like the arrows. though I'm not sure if it's even possible to do. Either way I definitely agree with lowering the costs of these bottles as creators are by far the most expensive class to play and are not as effective at anything compared to other classes. Not the most effective killers, not the most effective supports, not the most effective tanks etc. They got a little bit of everything but lack a lot of everything as well, yet they are by far the most expensive class out there. Haven't tried it with the 'newer' delays yet but what about spiral pierce ? That used to stunlock way more than AD does. And sniper autoattacks stunlock about as much as AD as well just a tiny bit less. Also there's cards that autocast pneuma, this also works vs AD so it'd be extremely easy to get close to them still :).

Chemists have low hp and their damage is quite low as well compared to pretty much all other classes. Their base damage can be high, yes. But any chicken with a head, and even some without a head know how to reduce chemist's damage to nearly nothing. The problem chemists have is that they need int for magical damage, ad damage. agi for attack speed ( A LOT of agi) , Vit for survivability (More vit than others due to the low tao increase) and str if you want to be anywhere near decent because you're forced to go hybrid build since ghostring + gtb = done chemist that doesn't go hybrid. 150 dex for instant cast as well. This forces chemists to put statpoints into 4 of the 5 different options. Which makes them either lack magic damage, or physical damage or render them with such low HP that it's laughable.On top of that considering they only get level 5 bolts and their matk is way lower than stalkers and the mage/ninja class means they would have to max out int to get anywhere near decent damage, and even with matk gear and max int they oftenly don't reach enough damage/matk to force someone to gtb and when they succeed in forcing someone to gtb the 300 int stat took too much of their stat points so their str would be too low to deal physical damage. It's an neverending spiral the way it is right now. -WS- Honestly, WS without their buffs up will do utterly low damage. Cart boost is definitely NOT the only skill they need to be effective. Aside from that the WS weapon does not autocast pneuma you have to cast it yourself, and one charge attack will get the WS out of pneuma again. If you're gonna tell the WS to wear rsx. Well good luck the BB spam will kill the WS easily as WS have crappy HP at the moment. Therefore I agree with boosting up the tao gunka card for the entire merchant class and hopefully the boost will be big enough to put them back on the "tanky" level that they're supposed to be at.

If it's so irrelevant , then why do you keep going on about it. Your entire post is irrelevant then. The whole discussion is NOT irrelevant because as stated numerous times (read below) You are are suggesting a BUFF to a class. in order to see if the class needs the BUFF you compare it to other classes and see how it influences them. Aside from that you are suggesting a skill from the MERCHANT class to be put into a weapon from a different class. Therefore the merchant class is highly involved in this discussion. I call it common sense, not irrelevant. Also Rad1x. I know how to play creator. Don't go that way please, it's pathetic. Oh btw. Good luck mamo-ing and pushing people away without a fsoldier. That'll do you much good. I rofl'd so hard. Sorry, but you complain about having to put in str while you argue creators have a ranged skill, magic and MELEE <--- MARK MELEE. with only the ranged skill and the magic creators can't do shit hence why they are FORCED to get a ton of str to do melee damage as well and to be able to carry stuff. Why would a creator have to do that while ALL other classes don't ? Just the fact that you need to add str is not a valid arguement unless you accept the fact that other classes need to do the exact same thing and should therefore be changed as well. And with this "drastic" loss of HP gunslingers get they still manage to have more hp than creators.. fun. Since you guys are scared to argue any further about it and keep on jabbering about how irrelevant it is I won't bring up any more arguements regarding the creator class. I'll just state my bottom line : I do not agree with this suggestion as gunslingers are supposed to be glass cannons. their damage is insanely high, their HP is WAY too high for glass cannon class and the one and only weakness they still have is their weight limit. Increasing that will make them quite OP and there's other classes that need buffs WAY more than the already slightly OP gunslinger class.

Creator is definitely one of the weakest classes on this server. Heck even supernovices deal more damage and survive a LOT more. Creator's matk is utterly low which makes their bolts weak and easy to outygg. Their only ranged attack can be reduced to nothing with the use one only 1 card which is defaulted by everyone. Aka ghostring. Breaking weapons/armors, with these rates everyone can do that. There's cards that enable that which proc more often than AD even. Aside from that lets face it, every single person on here can get fcp and the power of creator is supposed to be OUTLASTING this fcp and winning in the end. Also they have EWL level 10.. yes. DUUUUUH it's a merchant class, they are supposed to be the ONLY class with enlarge weight limit. Not all other classes as well. As stated before the cart is not a legit arguement as it's utterly useless with @storage around. Also lets not forget that AI's do not work properly on this server and homunculus are utterly weak. Therefore the only useful homunculus is Lif. this is a downside not an advantage. Homunculus are supposed to be a HUGE contribution to the creator. Mainly in damage, both Vanilmirth and lif on official nearly do the same damage as a player. I'm not asking for that now am I ? No cause I know that would be OP. But adding more hp to creator is OP ? don't make me laugh. I know you play a Assassin cross which has a rediculous amount of HP on this server, keep in mind that the merchant class is supposed to have MORE HP than an assassin. Hell being on par with assassin would do already. This while assassins on here easily reach above 300k. A merchant needs to stack up a huge amount of vit to get to 200k. This is what we call imbalanced. HP boost is definitely what they need. They are supposed to be a tanking class that can carry WAY more than any other class yet have the lowest hp on the server and have equal weight carrying with everyone else due to all classes getting this enlarge weight limit skill. Boosting their HP would not make them OP at all as their damage would remain crap as it is. To conclude creators are pretty much the weakest class on this server. Low health, low damage, variation of skills that can all get nerfed by using 1-2 cards which makes them utterly useless in regular pvp fights. Creators are SUPPOSED to have higher weight limit and better HP calculation. That's how they were made in the first place. And it's easy to kill them as their damage output is insanely low you can outdamage them, outlast them. And at the moment with their utterly low HP you can even easily burst them down in one go. Either way I've given my opinion on this suggestion. So -1 from me.