Ninja Final Strike (Too Strong Or Weak?)

[p3wp3w]

4 hours ago, Rayray said:

Because WoE is only held a few times a week and lasts for an hour and it is not the whole game.  You can't balance a class by saying it is OP with Pally and Clown buffs; most classes are OP with those buffs anyway, hence I rather base it on a 1v1 situation versus every other class. 

 

i hope that you fully understand that nowadays (well I admit myself), that the server get "alive" again during woe, br, gvg. i'm not talking about the server itself lol, im talking about the 80% of the players' population. After all, these are the main attractions that we have, aside from the seasonal updates.

Edited October 27, 2016 by p3wp3w
:P

[速い]

On 27/10/2016 at 8:25 AM, Rayray said:

Because WoE is only held a few times a week and lasts for an hour and it is not the whole game.  You can't balance a class by saying it is OP with Pally and Clown buffs; most classes are OP with those buffs anyway, hence I rather base it on a 1v1 situation versus every other class. 

And again, as I said in my very first post in this very thread, i main a class that had really no problem on ninjas, so i am a bit bias to it.  I don't want that particular build to get the "desperado" treatment on Gunslingers.

Also, let's be exact here.  In your opinion, how much should FS damage?  Give me a number here when using incant and when using thanatos.  Lowering FS damage too much will make people not actually use it.  What's the point of using FS if a simple throwing skill outdamages or is on par with it. 

Example: if it deals 200k, would making it deal 150k be good enough or make it 100k?

 

I'd disagree, WoE is a huge part of this game. You're saying you can't balance a class based on how OP it is with buffs, although can you name a class that's able to acquire a buff instantly, with no downside to it and literally wipe almost everyone, and on top of all that if they actually get apple and 2x HP using Battle Chant, Ninjas are capable of wiping out a whole guild with devo with almost no counter-play to it. If you're going to argue champions can do the same thing then first off, they can't acquire an immediate buff that increases their damage by almost twice as much, and secondly at least there's a way to counter that by using reflect.

 

No one can give you numbers for when someone uses incant and thanatos, because it'll always be different based on what the other person's wearing, whether they're wearing 2rays, 2devs, 1ray1skoll, 2skolls, tao or no tao, but it definitely shouldn't be doing the amount of damage it's currently doing. "Lowering FS damage too much will make people not actually use it" Well that's the problem lmao, it's been given buffed in a way that it makes no sense, I don't see the thought process behind why they slapped on the extra %HP bonus (as well as VIT+20), and on top of that they've slapped on a huge 150% damage increase on Final Strike.

Edited October 28, 2016 by 速い 

[Ares]

I shall review again your comments soon but we will revisit and balance this as soon as possible. Thank you for all the inputs.

[Yatogami]

Lets see whats gonna happen :D Can't wait

[ararciga27]

guys can you make build and stats ,cards for ninja build FS please...thanks

[Rayray]

This is a suggestion topic, not a guide.  Please go to the correct subforum.

[Rayray]

On 29/10/2016 at 4:30 AM, 速い  said:

I'd disagree, WoE is a huge part of this game. You're saying you can't balance a class based on how OP it is with buffs, although can you name a class that's able to acquire a buff instantly, with no downside to it and literally wipe almost everyone, and on top of all that if they actually get apple and 2x HP using Battle Chant, Ninjas are capable of wiping out a whole guild with devo with almost no counter-play to it. If you're going to argue champions can do the same thing then first off, they can't acquire an immediate buff that increases their damage by almost twice as much, and secondly at least there's a way to counter that by using reflect.

 

No one can give you numbers for when someone uses incant and thanatos, because it'll always be different based on what the other person's wearing, whether they're wearing 2rays, 2devs, 1ray1skoll, 2skolls, tao or no tao, but it definitely shouldn't be doing the amount of damage it's currently doing. "Lowering FS damage too much will make people not actually use it" Well that's the problem lmao, it's been given buffed in a way that it makes no sense, I don't see the thought process behind why they slapped on the extra %HP bonus (as well as VIT+20), and on top of that they've slapped on a huge 150% damage increase on Final Strike.

I forgot to post my reply to this. 

I don't know if you actually read my post or just read the part that you disagree on.

I did say give me a number, if I did not make it clear, that would be an average, against basic reducts(friggs+ usakoring) but if you think that would be impossible then nevermind, you did say that the amount of damage is not viable.

I do see that a ninja with a devo + buffs can kill without backlash, that is indeed the problem if it is paired with damage.  However, if we just compare damage and such, even my old sb sinx can deal damage that basically kills a class easily if im that buffed up.  That was the point I was making.  Almost any class with all the buffs in the world can do that.  But that does not mean your argument was wrong, maybe I was off.

My point of argument is that I don't want their damage to get nerfed so much that there is no point in exploring the build, hence I was asking for an average number in the damage.  I was asking that because I was thinking of lowering the damage a bit(but its damage should still be higher than throw skills) and also removing the thana effect on the skill(which seems to be stem of the problem, since there is no counterplay to the skill). 

In short, if the damage is lowered a bit, made the skill not able to be affected by thanatos card(which makes dual ray/devs effective on it) then I think it won't matter if the ninja has buffs or not in WoE, but the damage is still decent enough to be used.

[abysmalknight]

In my point of view, I agree with what Ray said, removing thana effect would be appropirate and perhaps slightly lower the damage. Its like when we imagine if a champion had thana effect, Asura & Tss would be really unstoppable. But dont forget we have to press like 4 buttons in order to spam that skill while its only 2 for ninja.

Currently there is no way to counter FS with thana even if we are wearing devi+skoll on major classes which has an average 250k HP and it can be double easily from clown buff which is hardly can be gotten by other class, even so especially for a champion we can easily swap 2 devi.

So for GM Team, please consider this issue.

Cheers

[niemono89]

ninja's were not op during fs lol(need max hp to cost exchg a really high dmg to opponent(thats mean suicide self too xd)

champs doesn't sacrifices their hp during asura lmao

I think only champ user will post that kind of weak response hh

[Maiimaii]

51 minutes ago, niemono89 said:

ninja's were not op during fs lol(need max hp to cost exchg a really high dmg to opponent(thats mean suicide self too xd)

champs doesn't sacrifices their hp during asura lmao

I think only champ user will post that kind of weak response hh

What a dumb, let me ask you, does champ has cicada and flip? Does asura spammable? Lile Fs? Answer is no so dont compare champ on OPd ninja, ninja can wipe anyone easily having lutie and chant hp, how bout asura? Yeah they can get 2x but then dies at reflect and ninja doesnt die because fs is range and apperently deals more damage than asura. Dont be dumb you will get bashed so hard. You never even Pvp so just sit there and shut up? 

And how ninja be a suicide using FS when they have cicada n flip . Yes there's some counter to FS and there's alot every job has counter job. But dont forget you can do decent FS with kunai build how op is that? And like i said FS dont even need an Kiel to spam. Dont you even see how OP it is thats why everyone uses it? And our server becoming naruto. 

What are you going to say next? SG not OP? hahahahaha my god. 

O god please forgive me for bashing his comment. It just doesnt make any point.  

Edited November 25, 2016 by Maiimaii
Ninja is not OP -Niemono 2k16

[Maiimaii]

On 10/29/2016 at 5:30 AM, 速い  said:

I'd disagree, WoE is a huge part of this game. You're saying you can't balance a class based on how OP it is with buffs, although can you name a class that's able to acquire a buff instantly, with no downside to it and literally wipe almost everyone, and on top of all that if they actually get apple and 2x HP using Battle Chant, Ninjas are capable of wiping out a whole guild with devo with almost no counter-play to it. If you're going to argue champions can do the same thing then first off, they can't acquire an immediate buff that increases their damage by almost twice as much, and secondly at least there's a way to counter that by using reflect.

 

No one can give you numbers for when someone uses incant and thanatos, because it'll always be different based on what the other person's wearing, whether they're wearing 2rays, 2devs, 1ray1skoll, 2skolls, tao or no tao, but it definitely shouldn't be doing the amount of damage it's currently doing. "Lowering FS damage too much will make people not actually use it" Well that's the problem lmao, it's been given buffed in a way that it makes no sense, I don't see the thought process behind why they slapped on the extra %HP bonus (as well as VIT+20), and on top of that they've slapped on a huge 150% damage increase on Final Strike.

Ninjas was already good back then with kunais, and the reason why  lowering fs damage too much  will actually make people not actually use it, thats because theey dont know how to play ninja other than 2buttons Lol. You gotta have skill, most of ninja doesnt even use Hidden water, Hybrid matk. So +1 remove or change the effect of this FS boost damage. 

 

P.S. Dont null the thana effect on ninja , it will ruin kunai also not just Final strike, If They made thana null to ninja it'll just destroy another class like gs gring. 

[Yatogami]

1 hour ago, Maiimaii said:

What a dumb, let me ask you, does champ has cicada and flip? Does asura spammable? Lile Fs? Answer is no so dont compare champ on OPd ninja, ninja can wipe anyone easily having lutie and chant hp, how bout asura? Yeah they can get 2x but then dies at reflect and ninja doesnt die because fs is range and apperently deals more damage than asura. Dont be dumb you will get bashed so hard. You never even Pvp so just sit there and shut up? 

And how ninja be a suicide using FS when they have cicada n flip . Yes there's some counter to FS and there's alot every job has counter job. But dont forget you can do decent FS with kunai build how op is that? And like i said FS dont even need an Kiel to spam. Dont you even see how OP it is thats why everyone uses it? And our server becoming naruto. 

What are you going to say next? SG not OP? hahahahaha my god. 

O god please forgive me for bashing his comment. It just doesnt make any point.  

Adding the fact that it sometimes takes a loooooooong time to get x2 on champ with chant *I think my pally is broken*

Edited November 25, 2016 by Yatogami
Chicken Nuggets OP

[Yatogami]

1 hour ago, Maiimaii said:

Ninjas was already good back then with kunais, and the reason why  lowering fs damage too much  will actually make people not actually use it, thats because theey dont know how to play ninja other than 2buttons Lol. You gotta have skill, most of ninja doesnt even use Hidden water, Hybrid matk. So +1 remove or change the effect of this FS boost damage. 

 

P.S. Dont null the thana effect on ninja , it will ruin kunai also not just Final strike, If They made thana null to ninja it'll just destroy another class like gs gring. 

+1 to reducing damage of FS so they can also use throw kunai and other ninja skills. I remember when throw kunai was the main killing skill of ninja. I rarely see really good ninjas that use FS Throw kunai combo, but now its all final strike macro users :( (no offense to "legit" FS users)

Edited November 25, 2016 by Yatogami
#NinjaIsNotOP #NeverForget #ChickenNugget4Lyf

[Maiimaii]

1 hour ago, Yatogami said:

+1 to reducing damage of FS so they can also use throw kunai and other ninja skills. I remember when throw kunai was the main killing skill of ninja. I rarely see really good ninjas that use FS Throw kunai combo, but now its all final strike macro users :( (no offense to "legit" FS users)

 #hashtags lol

Edited November 26, 2016 by Maiimaii
#please #make #FRO #Great #Again

[Pixel]

OP

[coldjoke]

how does people find it not OP...and counterable??

unchained serenade??like whats the chances to hit it exactly after FS??

WS??50k ish damage vs 200k ish dmg??pneuma??

even LK with 450k++ HP having hard time to just SURVIVING against FS....

[niemono89]

ninja's still have cast delays(the only pros would be the shortest delays of all jobs ever xd)

kunai build would be kunai build

fs build would be fs build

try don't mixing it up, sis :3

Edited November 26, 2016 by niemono89

[p3wp3w]

40 minutes ago, niemono89 said:

ninja's still have cast delays(the only pros would be the shortest delays of all jobs ever xd)

kunai build would be kunai build

fs build would be fs build

try don't mixing it up, sis :3

Burn this please. The reason why we got several skills is for them to be a variable when the situation calls. You can't just stick on FS build because you're on fs build. And moreover, please clear out your thinking of only PROs got the shortest delays, it's either it's their connection's nature OR they're using Ping manipulating programs.

 Shame on you that you got that point of view.

Edited November 26, 2016 by p3wp3w

[Nas]

48 minutes ago, niemono89 said:

ninja's still have cast delays(the only pros would be the shortest delays of all jobs ever xd)

kunai build would be kunai build

fs build would be fs build

try don't mixing it up, sis :3

You aint face the reality. These ninjas abused it with 1flip tatami followed by 3spam of FS. even lk with 420k hp ezpz died. And you'll see some great "haxors" spam fs in woe like there was no tomorrow.

#MakeFroGreatAgain

[Maiimaii]

55 minutes ago, niemono89 said:

ninja's still have cast delays(the only pros would be the shortest delays of all jobs ever xd)

kunai build would be kunai build

fs build would be fs build

try don't mixing it up, sis :3

Omg girl, i dont know if you are natural troll or it just that how your brain works LOL.  The dont try to mix it asura is asura champ is champ . And you dont even have experience at pvps . Im not surprised, you are amateur after all. Lols 

"ninja still have cast delay"

thats too obvious that you dont know anything about ninjas , i can spam FS without kiels by just spamming 3 buttons Soul/FS/Berry > Repeat, soul can cancel animation like zen. Thats why its easily spammable lul.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Maiimaii
#VoteNuggetsForPresident

[Maiimaii]

4 minutes ago, Nas said:

You aint face the reality. These ninjas abused it with 1flip tatami followed by 3spam of FS. even lk with 420k hp ezpz died. And you'll see some great "haxors" spam fs in woe like there was no tomorrow.

#MakeFroGreatAgain

Ikr, i did woe last few days ago . I havent woed so long and then, foken FS is like non-stop and wrecking your Hp like a boss lol. Its like asura 2x some decent champ can kill you with asura 2x fast spam. And now FS deals more damage than asura and yet its faster how the fk can you seeds out that .

Edited November 26, 2016 by Maiimaii

[c0okiee]

51 minutes ago, niemono89 said:

ninja's still have cast delays(the only pros would be the shortest delays of all jobs ever xd)

kunai build would be kunai build

fs build would be fs build

try don't mixing it up, sis :3

jesus christ help us 

W0man I hereby vote u the bull shitter of Fro forums. Ninjas have almost no delay at all period all u need is 3 fking kiels theres this entire discussion happening and u come post rand0m useless shit like u always do .

Like i told u before if u got valid points to add to any suggestion do it by all means or plz go host kitty/tea parties smwer like other insane girls do ty.

Ninjas can do like 3-5 FS in a sec and also FS and kunai build can be used on the same ring and weapon so hybrid is possible so i see no difference but in stats.

Ur hatred for champs. Comparing them to ninjas lol we were talking about all classes vs ninjas its just too much high dmg with no delay cast.

U want to compare ninja vs champ? fine get a champ ill get a ninja wel see u talk about this shit then?.. O wait u dont even pvp my bad.....

[Maiimaii]

1 minute ago, c0okiee said:

jesus christ help us 

W0man I hereby vote u the bull shitter of Fro forums. Ninjas have almost no delay at all period all u need is 3 fking kiels theres this entire discussion happening and u come post rand0m useless shit like u always do .

Like i told u before if u got valid points to add to any suggestion do it by all means or plz go host kitty/tea parties smwer like other insane girls do ty.

Ninjas can do like 3-5 FS in a sec and also FS and kunai build can be used on the same ring and weapon so hybrid is possible so i see no difference but in stats.

Ur hatred for champs. Comparing them to ninjas lol we were talking about all classes vs ninjas its just too much high dmg with no delay cast.

U want to compare ninja vs champ? fine get a champ ill get a ninja wel see u talk about this shit then?.. O wait u dont even pvp my bad.....

This kaza hahahhaha

no idea if she is a natural troll or just she is just simply natural dumdum HUEHUE

#BURRRRRRNNNNNNN

 

[p3wp3w]

+1 on removing that @niemono89 on forums.

[niemono89]

My opinion would be:

you all just kinda unused to it :3

its just like the gs spamming buffed fb for the 1st time lol xd

I can accept the fact(but y don't u all accept it lol)

its an easy solution, if u all just suggest ninja's job to be removed from the server(its origin were already unstable since birth of ro lmao)