gunxsword11

I'm actually the one wondering how are you even coming up with this numbers ?? It feels like you battle'd probably someone who got full god gears on bio c - then assume everyone who might/does plays bio c would be exactly the same which is kinda a wrong mindset ... In setting/nerfing up gears/items in a game you need to consider 2 perspective in terms of motivation : [1] A Casual Player [2] A Hardcore Player You do realize that the server isn't just about end-game shit - you need to look at it in a General perspective. A Casual Player will always have the average items (normal donate acce, weapon, armors/hg, aura) and most of them will just donate money to get it then some would farm and earn it. Now if we follow the value that your suggesting mammo damage would drop to 40~50k each spam on full donate and if you compare that to other jobs - its shit. If you compare buying a diff set vs bio cset SPENDING the same amount of money .... then clearly it will show that if we follow your values then bio c wont be worth to spend a penny on - people wont even recommend playing or buying or using it ... you wont even be able to sell that shit and you'll kill that job itself (bio c) making the ring pointless. A class needs to be playable and WORTH the cost in a normal gear set up and more in a top end gear (god gear) set up. Also a Hardcore Player that you prob met using a bio c (guessing) since u wont bring this up if you didn't experience it hands on. This people like any other player even on a diff class would do way more damage than average . I mean you invest on DA, books , new acce, emp, bijou, thana/inca + foods & buffs like bor&aloe even voke lvl 10 then converter - so of course it will do more than 100k damage with the current gears. If you invest that much even on a diff class you'll definitely get similar result (depending on job class). The point here is its top tier end gear and people spent a lot for it - so ofc in a way it would be way way higher than ur average geared person and NOT EVERYONE can do this thats a fact so its really not healthy to just assume that everyone would be like that cause they wont. [1] Right now a FULL geared (w/ da + books + acce + emp) Bio C with full buff + brutal (20% mammo) can do an average of 122k spam (w/o voke 10) .... with voke lvl 10 it'd spike to 135~150k (normally depends on opponents gear) [2] WITH THE SAME SET UP ABOVE .... but rather than brutal hg - swap it with ltd hg, mammo damage drops from an average 122k spam to 107k spam [3] Now with same gear as (1) with brutal HG + FULL BUFFS (w/ voke 10) but this time no ring (350% mammo) but the rest exactly the same - from an average of 122k spam it drops to 27k spam - so big difference even while wearing brutal. You wanted to drop it to half from 350% to 175% which would likely make a FULL GEAR with top tier end items like DA with books + new acce + emp + full buffs to do like what ? 47~57k ish on God Gears ?? You'd want people to spend that much money/time/effort to get that kind of damage ? What more for casual players with average gears ??? Obviously people wont if the GMs do that and it'll make the dam ring useless and killing a build for that certain class. I do agree that it needs a bit of a nerf but not to that value where the class would be shitty - real talk. If the GMs drop the values to at least like 270%~300% then you'd still do like 87~94k average damage (w/ god gears) with mammo insane spam (assuming u got good ping) then that would make the class more worth it and balanced - thats a tiny bit of where i get my numbers from.

This itself is because its the nature of WoE - to have each classes to compensate one another and to prepare or make an effort to ensure that each of offensive classes will be supported properly. For MATK builds automatic MB , for Physical build automatic Voker lvl 10 & Chants thats the norm. I do have to say that i'd agree on the fact that it does way too much damage specially when buffed but lowering the damage output too low might make the class totally useless. So if your suggesting it to be balanced in a way it wont right away kill anyone but still be able to serve its purpose and wipe people - I'd say you best bet is to drop the damage output to from 180% to 130%~155% (actually just re-calculated it again) safest. At this point it won't be that bloody at the same time still serve its purpose EDIT: Also in regards with MB - its already a fact that it is indeed always available and any matk class that gets 2x matk boost will sure to 1 hit anyone or do serious damage one way or another, but the same can be said to voke lvl 10 (can be deadly on specific atk jobs) and chant 2x - and yet again ofc as i mentioned from the beginning the only difference is the frequency u get the buff that makes it alarming but other than that its technically the same concept

FOR FREEEEEEEDOM AWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA

+1

As for SG - with the right support its like a walking 1 man army hahahahahah .... if the GMs even plan to nerf this - then prob just reduce the damage A BIT to make sure the class still serve its purpose consider the shitty hp it has As for the values for Bio C - same also feel 175% might be too low , prob 270%~300% is fine As for the values for GS G - just read it and that feels fine, 135%~150% seems goood If anyone else thinks it needs to be lowered down a bit anyway, i mean this new builds or new rings main purpose is have a style diff from the usual practice which is why some of the new builds can be so far from its original class specialty, so people cant really just say "your a melee/matk class u should only be able to do this not this (exag)" - since the whole point of the new builds is to add a bit of twist to sht, ofc it wont be perfect thats why there's feedbacks like this so that it'll still be that way but at the same time wont ruin shit

I'm actually looking at it at a more solo perspective .... since woe is basically a compilation/mixture of jobs that compensates to one another. In a WoE setting obviously people will default GR because of the present of neutral jobs like champs & bio which makes Napalm build effective - i mean thats the whole point. Any job that gets MB'd is like any melee/longrange phys class that gets 2x (which i pointed out already the only difference is the frequency/availability of the buff) that even if you just pass through in just a split second you'll still prob have the same scenario and die almost instantly. I mean if you think and compare it this depends on an individual perspective. For example this scenario's ; (i'll be using wiz g vs gs g for comparison since they're the closest in damage range) [1] Champ snapping wearing usakoring pass by Wiz G that has MB = die in seconds if ur hp be like below 320k [2] Champ snapping wearing GTB pass by GS G that has voke lvl 10 (doesn't even need 2x atk but has same availability) = die in seconds if ur hp be like below 320k Anyone on each of this scenario would complain about the other - since mainly right now the main point of phys classes are to kill anyone on gtb or have them switch AND the main point of matk classes is to kill anyone on usakoring or have them switch. This is what i meant but depends on an individual perspective. Yes we all have easy counters for each classes but the main thrill that woe offers is that unexpected twists that suddenly pops up in front of u - and its up to you to decide how you will counter it (like snap while using gtb then switching to usakoring or vice versa) ..... its just that really so for me in this case both are basically the same. If i have to point out another thing is that well i can honestly say GS G & napalm do have a great deal damage so lowering by atleast 30%~50% (depends) honestly would be more than enough to ensure that this classes wont suck individual and in a group and at the same time not so overwhelming. Since you guys are looking at it at an all too perfect angle of assuming that everyone has access to mb that 100% of the time for 1 hr all magic users are on mb which isnt true - its hard to prepare an alt to be able to stay alive inside emp room - and the dam mb/voke buff will only even last for like a min then poof gone back to normal - so im looking at this at a SOLO JOB ALONE (w/o outside buffs) perspective where in if u wanna lower its damage at least make it high enough to still be able to fight back even alone and shine more in a group. Also i do think 100% might still be too low so maybe 110%~130% might be something everyone would be happy about + by the nature of napalm skill itself - this skill tbh really shines to the fullest if your attacking someone alone since it will not splash/split the damage to those beside it making it weaker - thats the nature of the skill itself and tbh if i were to use wiz g/ws g even if i atk someone at emp area with the amount of people beside each other - honestly even with MB i dont think i'll do a killer damage cause of how the pure damage divides itself and splash around multiple people. i could actually agree on most of this - since there is that option to get SL converting ur buff target rather than just party - but enable u to use it on yourself. So imagine a bard/gypsy SL selfcast lutie having like 650~800k hp (unless dispelled but with that hp u can yolo on gtb lmao) and doing like the average 90~100k spam damage (on full gears) might be too mighty so +1 to reducing the hp a bit

I'd say i agree with most of this and the some classes really seems unbalanced and prob need a bit of twisting. If I'd disagree on one thing here it would be for the reduce values for wiz/ws g (napalm builds) 80% is prob too low since aside from forcing people to change to no gr or gtb to counter it or reduce its damage - napalm is practically useless since matk roles are either to force them to change gears or kill people thats it .... so maybe at least dropping it to like 120%~130% would sound more reasonable. Also im pretty sure that majority of those 30k~50k each napalm are from mb (2x of matk) which you can get as much as you want if you have an exclusive prof for it - so for me its not OP alone, its op with help. People prob just notice this more because its easier to get MB for 2x matk rather than chant for 2x attack - but if you look at it closely both are identical/same - only diff is the frequency you can get the buff at and that changes everything.

up

OP twist hahahaha - i don't see it happening XD

In all RO database - even in official RO servers .... paladins skills are already based on SHIELDS itself .... making a 2-hand shield to function as a WEAPON would mean you would not be able to use pally original skills that are based on shields because the system itself would recognize that 2- hand shield weap that you want AS A WEAPON NOT AS A SHIELD meaning you want be able to use pally shield base skills SINCE it is not identified as a shield but as a weapon - so technically it is impossible Your suggestion of adding a new build for pally like a boomerang build is a great idea - but the way you exactly want it to be is not , just saying

so you earn more points in stealing castle than defending a castle ?

oh this idea is actually interesting ..... i think only the idea though , making shield a [4] slot weap and have it function as a weapon might make it things too complicated ...... but going with the idea itself, then its prob better to just make a new ring and have it boost shield boomerang damage while keeping the same or making a new spear for pally exclusive for boomerang .... that prob makes more sense than making a [4] shield to be a weapon

is there a final update or changes with the sched of bg on regards to this topic ? - just curious

oy some of the rewards are getting better & cooler now looool also i think thats prob to make it more challenging to earn atoks i guess though i get your point since in your case u do stuff and stay online - its just you do it on diff chars .... but i guess how they set it up is a way to control the atoks in a way it will target the majority - ur case its prob a case to case basis

Why not just make a class specific 1v1 event ...... like a tournament for champ vs champ , bio vs bio etc etc .... so both players will be under the same rule & same balance issues so no excuses. Then just let people be able to register to more than 1 event if they play a lot of classes then why not ... playing on all events doesn't necessarily increase you chance of winning since in the end it'll be skill vs skill I'm just thinking 2v2 might have its own issues - i mean will the jobclass partner u have at first be the same till the end or they can change depending on opponents record or something like that ? since some 2v2 matchup same as 1v1 can still be unbalanced

This will probably wont pass. It'll prob hurt the market more than make it better. [1] It's there for a reason - aside from it being another option for those who doesn't have a lot of free time to keep mvp times straight 24 hrs per day, it serves as a great option for players since it gives them chance to be able to obtain the cards at their own leisure through the mvp room [2] It holds the prices - As you all know MVP rooms only have selected mvps, mostly the most used/popular ones like TG KIEL etc ... Main reason for this is because everyone needs and uses this a lot like literally A LOT. If you observe mvp cards that isn't part of the mvp room - their prices FLUCTUATES TOO BIG and isn't stable .... why ? because there's no fix supply for it - unlike this mvps inside mvp room. It is because we have this MvPs in the MVP room is the main reason why people dont sell this cards on a higher price EVEN IF your the only one hoarding it BECAUSE you can get it from the mvp room. THIS ITSELF acts as a roof to make sure the prices for this specific mvps wont go overprized and to make sure its affordable for newbies. If you remove mvp room - then the prices of the mvps its keeping at check will totally changed, since whoever controls/hoards the supply for that specific mvp WILL CONTROL THE PRICE - so it will ruin the eco rather than make it better .... thats where "if you dont want the price then go hunt it" reason that other people use comes in - so too much issues better keep it than removing. [3] Competition - You will not find competition by removing mvp room. Competition is something where you need to have both the people & motivation to do so. Honestly speaking mvping is dying mainly cause profit is too low and there are a lot of other methods to earn tokens that cost less time that's why people are lazy which is harsh for a person who only knows how to mvp. Keeping time and tracking mvps isn't that easy to do since it literally eats so much time and effort since there is no 100% guarantee for a drop - you can just hope for a drop and thats it and this i understand So if you really want to bring back competition and someone revive MvP profit, then i would recommend raising the price NOT ON ALL/EASY MVPS ......... but raise the fucking price for HARD MVPS like ifrit gloom some lhz mvps like LK sinx hwc etc and make it like from the usual 60~ 110 toks to something like 90 ~ 130 toks. This would be reasonable since aside from you being the only supplier/hoarder for this mvp - this also means u control the price you wish to sell it on. Also anyone who knows how to mvp knows how hard it is to hoard this specific mvps which makes it very reasonable - it'll increase eco at the same time WILL NOT AFFECT BASIC MVP CARDS that newbies need . This will also raise income for mvpers and might even push others to do mvp if they dont wanna buy from u giving u the competition that you wanted. Ofc there'll be people who'll troll or donate then sell paking cheap but thats up to them and its up to u to sell at your own price thats why its called a market.

Well if they'll add it - prob need to add on the rest to so all at once rather than doing it bit by bit XD Cool art though :3

Have to agree this is a bit OP if your gonna implement it word per word xD ...... since the concept of balance should be applied - you need to consider when your against BOTH a phys & matk class. Imagine getting a friend to spam u an aoe matk w/ MB (intentional friendly fire) ... it'll be like u get healed by their friendly-fire since matk atks will heal u while it shaves off ur opponents hp THEN U SPAM ACID/MAMMO on them lmao easy kill - easily abused a twist is good but not that kind of twist XD ....

can you post a screenshot of your gears (alt + q) & stats (alt + a) for both set ups

I think this one is worth thinking about specially since right now MvPs are camp because no one does it therefore making it an easy income .... we do have MvP rooms but it exist since it was preset from the beginning mainly for newbies since tbh MVP competition before is nothing compared to what it is now NOTE : this suggestion is mainly to make mvping more worth it - or to give it more value Its not just about the cards u get anymore ... because since the beginning of RO - there would always be someone who would do mvp (this is like already a natural way to earn in ANY RO GAME) - its just a matter of "how many" does it or "if people are motivated enough" to do it. The suggestion of adding mvp loot box is just to give more motivation to mvpers to keep hunting since for them "we can get something from this" aside from the cards ... that itself might at least make mvping more worth it and even increase the competition ... and ofc many people will think of camping easy mvps and definitely FEW of them will have the same idea and clash even on easy mvps SPECIALLY on hot mvps ... this itself will keep mvping active. Of course some might say this might ruin eco/prices or spoil people ... but this will only happen IF WE ADD LOOT BOXES AT THE SAME RATE ............ but what we're suggesting is to add it on a SAFER/LOWER RATE (roughly around 0.1% ~ 0.01%) which is basically the drop rate of normal cards in lowrate servers , even if u camp the mvp 1,000~10,000x there would be no guarantee that u will get a book but there's still that chance to get a drop since u will be mvping anyway more benefit thats why people will do it - Can guarantee that as long as the drop rate is at 0.1% specially on 0.01% (normal drop rate of mobs like poring) ..... even on hunting porings (which spawns instantly) it takes weeks to even get a single card (low rate drop rate) ... what more for MvPs that spawns on FIX INTERVALS (not instant spawn - min of every 60+ mins) ... you can't even say that mvps are many ... cause at this rate even if u have like 100 mvp spawning instantly in 1 map (like porings) ... it wont just give a drop right away, what more for mvps with at least 1hr spawn time & less than 100 mvps or so ... so i think this suggestion is a good motivation for mvpers at the same time would not really ruin the market unless people are stupid

NOT AGAINST MVP CARDS GOING UP - but for some easy ones with high prices isn't reasonable Inca = 10 ~ 15 (easy to kill/hunt - always present) Orc Lord = 20 (thats fine) Orc Hero = 10 (easy to kill/hunt - always present) VR = 60 (would prefer this than 55 HAHAHA) TG = 30 (spawns every hr no need to be higher) TGK = 40 ~ 50 (justified price if u ask me) KIEL = 40 (fair) GTB = 25 (fair) FBH = 40 (fair) F.Raider = 40 HWC = 110 ~ 120 (fair) SINX C = 110 ~ 120 (fair) GLOOM = 60 ~ 90 (old price - competition was better/harder before - price never went higher than this) hot hard mvp so this price for me IS FAIR Tanee = 30 ~ 35 (fair) Amad = 40 (fair) Dwiz = 15 Dwar = 10 Skoll = 7~10 Beelze = 40 ~ 60 (fair) Atroce = 10 Maya P = 5 ~ 7 Maya = 10 GR = 10 ... not sure why this became 20 ? - it always been high demand even years back and a lot of hunters with short spawn intervals (mini boss) Deviling = 10 ... same as above ^ Angeling = 10 LK = 40 ~ 60 Mastersmith = 30 ~ 40 Amon ra = 10 Bapho = 5 ~ 10 (fair) Drake = 5 ~ 10 Eddga = 10 ~ 15 RSX = 10 ~ 15

GR = 10 Angeling = 10 Moonlight = 5 ~ 10 Dracula = 5 Pharoah = 3 Dark Priest = ????? - dragoon wizard or warlord ?? Maya P = 5 ~ 10 Amon ra = 10 Inca = 10 ~ 15 LK = 40 ~ 60 Mastersmith = 30 ~ 40 HP = 10 ~ 15 White lady = 10 Vesper = 5 Atroce = 5 ~ 10 right now token : zenny rate is at 60 F.toks : 1b zenny

honestly speaking not all ROP colors are good in solid or not all looks good in transparent ........ so for now for me THOSE colors in tokenshop that are solid looks awesome and would like it that way or a bit that way is fine THEN the rest just leave it as is no need to change all colors .... so yah prob case to case basis - some colors looks better being solid some being transparent thats it

ohhhh so ping zapper is better for fRO i guess ... well RO is an old game xD hahahah

The other guys explained the details already .... but just to make it more easier since you new .... if you tried voting and doing legendary weapon quest .... a set is basically Legendary Weap + Vote cape BUT the donated version of it ... it got coool awesome damage/stats boost over all and its very very flexible since diff rings means diff builds that u can test out in game To know more or better understand it - you'll just have to test it in game and explore !! have fun AWOOOOOOOOOOOO