Xtopher

I mean, I agree with it... especially since I've suggested it before. I think it helps the none-donation belt users too. It would help new people or poorer people play more classes which would maybe help our retention?

I suggested this ages ago and people didn't like the idea too much. What I think it comes down to is that it isn't really necessary.

The circumstances are drastically different in all the scenarios you list. The Tarot skill can reduce your HP to 1 instantly and if the clown is using auto attack the follow hit (which comes a fraction of a second after the coma) will kill you. -You can YGG through a Melee'ing SinX. -There are MANY different ways to reduce Martyr damage. Second, the Pala/Stalker has to continuously recast Martyr after the 5 hits so it's not truly ctrl+click. -True, a coma build LK can kill you with ctrl+click but that takes ages a clown can drop you within a matter of seconds and what's more clown has range to allow for more hit and run/stunlock strategies. Lastly, almost any class with divest cards could divest a LK's weapon. Divesting a Clown is pointless on most classes because they can just re-equip the weapon.

Yea... It's really hard to modify or boost the vote system without putting it in a situation where it will be abused. Things like this have been suggested before (I don't know about this specific suggestion) and have been rejected due to the fact that it would be too abusable.

Vengaboys: Boom Boom Boom Boom For all interested; Roger (aka Takashi) makes a guest appearance as a cowboy in the video provided.

Hi, I don't remember you but welcome back to the server! A lot has probably changed from the time that you left. If you have questions I'll try to help.

It's been suggested to change it before but I don't think it got accepted. The int/sp is to give Assassins more a more versatile build ability. Meaning that they can branch out into different builds that people haven't tried or utilized like Soul Destroyer as you mentioned.

Well I think it was meant as a token/coupon drain. So if only rich people are bidding that's still fine. I think what Som posted is accurate, they're probably just preoccupied with other things and forgot/let it slide.

1: GTB card costs 15 tokens, sure. Less we forget you can not simply throw a GTB in a buckler and expect that to be too helpful. You'll need a F.Shield/Elite Shield/Friggs. So add a couple more tokens to that approximation. Most pvpers aren't going to be using the elite set so thats at least the cost of a F.Shield. 2: Clown is not a Mage. They should not be able to force GTB on you like they do at the moment. As I and Supream have discussed; that was not an issue before the bow. One could simply ygg after a manually casted coma card and survive. There is no surviving a coma card with this bow without GTB, and some classes can not do adequate enough damage output to kill a reduction clown while using GTB. 3: You do not need to wear those reductions vs a champ. My characters get a long just fine vs asura with just rays/gr. You don't need to stack devs nor Sacred Wings or Santa Poring or Deviling hat to survive. You can leave on gear that keeps you functional enough to do proper damage out put while tanking their damage. More over, most champions if not all do not wear reduction equipment. If they do their asura damage and tss speed are severely cut and their potential for killing you is decreased dramatically, unlike a clown who can slap on all kinds of reductions and still Double Strafe (Requires no Kiels) or just wait for auto coma to kill you, auto stone to stone you, auto dispell to dispell you, auto break to break your items, auto paralyze to paralyze you, auto decrease attack to decrease your attack, auto sp drain to kill your sp. Now, to address your most recent post. This is my suggestion thread. I'm not complaining about Clowns being immortal or something. There are strategies to kill them. My claim is that the bow is over powered, which even you have admitted to. I also am stating that the classes Clown/Gypsy do not even need the bow to begin with. As I've mentioned before: The class was fine before the update. The weapons were meant to give other more underpowered classes big boosts and add small boosts to the classes that are already powerful. Obviously Clown didn't need a boost like this, what's the point of helping out the other classes if your just going to keep giving the powerful classes such advantages as well? Before you regard my posts as "spam" please read the forum Guidelines here: http://forum.forsaken-ro.net/index.php?showtopic=16 before making such accusations. As for the four People in your parentheses above (Takashi, Eban, Juan, and Dragon) Eban = HerLove he posted 21 November 2010 - 09:37 PM Dragon = DiEnd he posted 23 November 2010 - 08:55 PM I'll ask Takashi and Juan to provide input. Lastly, not all members read our forums. Hell, some of them don't even know they exist or have ever been here much less keep track of topics. It's ignorant to think that just because someone doesn't post here that they're not effected or have no opinion on the bow or as you put it "neutral".

I watched a guy fighting a clown (or attempting to) die 5x from coma reflected from his bow+friggs. I'm thinking about Frapsing the next time I see this sort of then so that I can share it here. The deaths took less than a few seconds before he was dropped. The clown wasn't even fighting back, just standing and letting the guy die. Clowns do not deserve or even need this kind of buff, I'm sorry for those of you who have the bow or who donated for it but even good clown users that I know and who have the bow know that its overpowered (Takashi, Eban, Juan, Dragon) along with plenty of other people who mained clown/gypsy before the bow was ever implemented who know that it's not fair. If the people who know the class the best know that the bow is over powered then isn't that significant enough to legitimize a nerf? I'm not asking for it to be removed. I'm asking for it to be changed. @Emir: You're suggesting someone go full reductions with combat knife and a GTB with friggs. One, not many people have friggs. Two, how are they supposed to kill a full reduction clown when using a freakin' combat knife? Some classes can't even use that weapon. Others (sniper) will never kill you with it. @healhard: I believe you regarded losing JT as a disadvantage? With the bow you have repel arrow and arrow shower am I right?

I agree. Maybe a suggestion thread should be made to bring it back? Or maybe the GM's are just too busy/pre-occupied to deal with it right now. That's understandable.

^ Exactly. The bow simply gives Clowns and Gypsys unnecessary advantages. The class wasn't underpowered before the weapons and from I understand the weapons were meant to integrate player suggestions for class balance into funding the server. Clowns don't need a weapon like this and giving it to them creates further imbalance which defeats the purpose of the weapons. I dont mean to critique the server or the creator of the bow negatively, I just strongly disagree with the attributes chosen for it. I think a guitar/harp would have been much more fair but it's too late for that. So I believe the bow should give 10% hp boost, 20% more damage with bows, and like a 5-10% chance of casting tarot when attacking only. Or as kittie suggested: making this bow two handed would solve the problem while keeping the tarot chance.

Welcome back! We troll dah pvp lulz.

Even the most well equiped and skilled players can't really main Whitesmiths at the moment. Juan has been used as an example, and I agree hes a great pvper but even he would be forced to use different characters in pvp after a bit. I honestly see no possible way for WS to kill some characters other than to coma them, and even then they would have to get lucky. Whitesmiths just aren't effective enough... no matter how fast you can spam your damage output is too slow and your hp is too low to tank for too long. As for suggestions besides boosting hp/damage~ Whitesmiths could be given the following: Endure to tank long range attackers and avoid long range stun-lock. A higher armor/weapon breaking chance. Increased duration of buffs or chances at auto casting buffs (Example: 50% chance of auto casting Cart Boost when hit) The skill Throw Tomahawk could have it's damage modified to suit our server and given to those who are using the Oriental Sword.

I'm the only one posting here that mains Stalker. Hell, I'm one of the few that actually uses it as my main class server-wide. Supream is the LK expert, and before you go spouting off about how they're "useless" I would like to see you fight some of our better LKs such as him. I don't see how what classes we main is relevant to the topic at hand. Regardless of what class I use the bow is too strong. In fact a good bit of the people I've talked to ingame AND people posting here are Clown users. Kittie, for example, is great with Clown and knows the class very well, yet she is advocating a nerf on the bow after seeing it used ingame. "Noobs" with the bow are annoying, but actual skilled players with the bow are damn near impossible to kill one on one. And no weapon should make it a REQUIREMENT for you to be GANGED in order to be killed. We shouldn't rely on "good players" to not abuse the power of the bow, it shouldn't be abusable to begin with. I don't have a problem with the skill Tarot, I have a problem with a bow that casts it at a rate that makes pvp one sided.

They see me Bumpin They hatin.

I'm fine with it doing more than FAS. Benefits of FAS: LONG range Many elements AOE Based on Dex so HIT is never an issue. Not Reflectable Benefits of CT: Not Reflectable No Kiels required Could potentially break armor if shattering strike is on (if no FCP on target). Clearly the benefits of FAS far outweigh CT. It's reasonable for CT to do more damage.

I like the idea of making the clown bow two handed. It would actually require some strategy to use then. Arrow repel, ctrl+click then when they get close use guitar/harp + shield and vulcan/tarot then stun/stone/freeze/JT/Run rinse and repeat. The LKH was OP. One big indicator is that there were so many LKs running around who REALLY didn't know how to use the class efficiently and relied on the weapon to do all the work for them (massive damage + coma chance). Now we have the same scenario with Clowns. Many unskilled Clowns are running around ctrl+clicking and killing some of the most skill players. The LKH wasn't made useless, the LKs that are still running around are the ones that know how to use the class. The nerf weeded out all the people who really do not want to devote time to learning the class. The player should make the weapon great. The weapon should not make the player great.

No Clown or Gypsy forces me to GTB without the Bow. I can hit my ygg button faster than they can pop an attack off of a coma card. Occasionally if their lucky they will get a coma card the a damage card immediately after which will leave you dead but this is rare. The Bow, however, does force everyone to GTB because it is impossible to hit your ygg before the next arrow lands on you at 195 attack speed immediately after a coma card. 8-10K vulcan may be survivable for some, but in the hands a of a skilled clown/gypsy 8-10k per hit is gold and they'll leave you in the dust. I acknowledge people did donate for these weapons and shouldn't be completely ripped off, but this bow is just too much. The stalker bow never auto-killed people and it was nerfed. The LKH DID auto kill people (at a MUCH lower chance than the Clown bow) and it was nerfed. I don't see how it would be fair to leave it as it is.

Why should it do less damage than FAS? Are you stating that meaning that it should not exceed FAS because that would be too powerful? If that's the case I disagree. Snipers have tons of other positive attributes that Smiths do not have. CT damage exceeding FAS damage is not a problem IMO.

Black Sword: For White Smith + 20% CT damage, hp + 30%, Str + 20, Dex + 15 15% more damage on demi-humans 10% Chance of casting 'Maximum Overthrust' while receiving damage + 5 ASPD Selling this or trading to Stalker Soaring Bird or Dorcus or Priest Strike Eagle.