8ball Posted April 12, 2016 Report Posted April 12, 2016 Hello guys! I would like to suggest this 1 more time ,since its always rejected. So please hear me out! My in game character is Vossen and I'm sure some of you seen me around in for field Pvping since that's all i do. As you all know the item was nerf in 2016 I believe. I was pvping in for field and was accuse of hacking by some pinoy dude who had a video posted online. He Keeps saying i was doing 5 and 6 sb, but really it was only 4 consistently. 5 and 6 is possible ,but extremely hard to do unless you have some crazy ping. I was later approach by genesis warning me to stop whatever i was doing. NEXT DAY THE KITTY WAS NERF!! THIS IS NOT THE WAY TO FIX A HACKING PROBLEM BY NERFING IT BECAUSE YOU CANT DETERMINE A HACKER FROM A NON HACKER. The person will hack regardless of class. I mean the item been out for year's and no complaint from all the time that I've been playing, but just a couple months back they decided to give it a nerf. If you wanna see the video, just go on youtube and search Forsaken Ro Vossen and its the first video that pops up. Now my suggestion is to make the kitty claw how it was originally. Yes sb is strong, but having no shield out ways EVERYTHING! and link is so god dam easy to counter. I'm like the only person who plays sinx, so it seems. You already gave Snipers and Gunslinger shields. Don't forget that MASSIVE GS boost, which i find extremely OP, but what can i do. Lets bring SinX back to its glory days, because dagger SinX is so god dam boring!!! I wanna hear from the people who use to play SinX and not just some random noob who who -1 everything. Give me a valid point on why the item should stay how it is.
Rayray Posted April 12, 2016 Report Posted April 12, 2016 1. Every class had one of their skills nerfed in terms of spams. That's just the way it is, as the GM Team is trying to match server side delay to client side delay. 2. Take note, I never used Kitty Claw, I was using the legendary counterpart(so it is far weaker mind you). I dunno how to explain it, but there seems to be a timing on SBs, and not before that you mindlessly press the button and it "links" magically. Also note that I am not a pure SB sinx(as I find THAT boring), and only uses SB to surprise people of the burst(i am a dagger sinx primarily), so my opinion will differ from you. To me, SB atm works from my end as I do not purely rely on it, so that might be different from you. 3. The GS boost is not that OP when I encountered it, shotgun GS has 0 utility. DS Snipers who uses traps are more annoying, GS also has to get close. I fought a GS on my Biochem though so that might be something completely different. 4. 3 SBs should be the one being consistent, with 4 happening occasionally if YOU HAVE LINK. 5 and 6 very rarely happens and only happens when you got animation reset(you are being hit while spamming). Getting 4 without link is very rare in my experience, just so you know.
8ball Posted April 12, 2016 Author Report Posted April 12, 2016 (edited) 2. I don't know where you're getting these numbers from but I just tested Kitty and F katar and they're almost the same damage, give or take. I'm actually only using the f katar right now, since the spam is ALOT more better. The f katar allows me to spam 4 consistently, but the damage is not good enough to kill anything. I can spam 3-4 without link on a f katar, and 4 consistently on link. Kitty claw on the other hand, the most i can spam is 2 SB and saying its "Burst" is LOL. Its basically like a weak double strafe with shitty spam. I'm also a hybrid SinX and I don't rely mainly on SB, but with the current spam rate is just ridiculous. I could say that F katar is BETTER then kitty claw..which is really retarded considering its a donation item. I tested on my friend who is full gear and i manage to pump out about 8400 damage each hit with link bless and falcon eyes, and my str is like 300. For f katar on the other hand around 8200 and thats with the same buffs ( take note that these buff can be easily dispel). 3. Well from experience the norm damage from a GS is about 70k on my Sinx and imagine if i didn't have a shield, you do the math. The thing about sniper is, there damage is consistent so its easy to predict when to spam seeds, on the other had GS has Desperado, which i consider to be a burst damage (best of both worlds). Way stronger then all the range classes i fought from experience. Just Imagine if i take off my shield trying to SB, which is one of the biggest negative as i mention above. The negative out ways the positive so much. To achieve damage you sacrifice defense, which is the only class to do that, and its a massive amount of defense. 4. Yea.. I agree with you also, but each individual damage, by far play the biggest role and I don't see that happening and considering I can only spam 2 sb max. Edited April 12, 2016 by 8ball
Ares Posted April 12, 2016 Report Posted April 12, 2016 Let me just add since I was part of nerfing the Kitty Claws. It was too OP that time especially when you do more SBs in a single second which me and the GMs thought it should be nerfed. If you ask me, I still see SinX who used SB and still kills people. Again, the nerf that we did is just matching the spam of legit vs with break neck / other 3rd party programs.
8ball Posted April 12, 2016 Author Report Posted April 12, 2016 Let me just add since I was part of nerfing the Kitty Claws. It was too OP that time especially when you do more SBs in a single second which me and the GMs thought it should be nerfed. If you ask me, I still see SinX who used SB and still kills people. Again, the nerf that we did is just matching the spam of legit vs with break neck / other 3rd party programs. It was a strong spell ON LINK, but not OP and very easy to dispel. If SB SinX didn't have link, it can be compared to AV, but with a shield. But the thing about AV is Gypys/clown can force the person to use gtb, with tarot. We're very easy to kill, so I don't see a problem. Don't you think that's more OP? But then again you guys have no control of modifying skills and such. There are many ways to counter a burst damage SinX. For example Orc Lord, works very well if you just randomly switch between fights. Yea there damage is good, but don't you think they're also taking in a massive amount of damage, if not more because of us not having a shield? And I highly doubt you see any kind of SB SinX killing anybody, unless they're under geared players, but if we are talking about 2 geared players fighting it out hahah good luck trying to kill with a kitty Claw. I'll break my fingers before that happens. I'm telling you guys now, kitty claw is USELESS! I'm not saying it, cause I play it, but it really is useless. I prefer F katar over it. I haven't seen a SB sinX ever since the nerf. Occasionally a few, but its extremely rare. Isn't that telling you guys something? Why are you trying to match the spam with legit? isn't this a custom server? Or are you just trying to categorize the legit vs the hackers, so you know who hacking and who's not?
Rayray Posted April 12, 2016 Report Posted April 12, 2016 They are trying to match server side and client side delays so that programs such as breakneck would offer no help.
Zelot Overlord Posted April 12, 2016 Report Posted April 12, 2016 If the GM's were really trying to prevent third party programs they would get something like harmony which costs 200 bucks for a lifetime subscription and they pay for all server updates/upgrades required. Just some food for thought on the subject. SB sinx as they are kill plenty of people so I'm not sure what the issue is... HOWEVER I do agree that GS are fucking stupid with their spam and their damage and considering their "utility being garbage" they don't need utility when they are putting out up to 250k a hit with full buffs and gospel on top of having spam that's far faster than FAS. In my opinion GS need a fix not sinx. On the topic of sinx's and fixes, why is it the GM team is trying to adjust skill delays when they could always just add protection which has been around for 5+ years o.O?
Nas Posted April 12, 2016 Report Posted April 12, 2016 I agreed on this. Sb sinx only that strong when with link,and katar(2wep weapon), another player could dispell him with no fail just with vr card, or vr hat. Let say high priest+link+kafra=100++ k per damage and didnt include a lex, but without link,holy light was holy ****. Same part as sinx though.
Zelot Overlord Posted April 12, 2016 Report Posted April 12, 2016 High priests also are completely countered by using a GTB or maya so the link wouldn't matter too much... not sure what that point is though since soul link has the same effect as it always has the skill itself wasn't changed only the aftercast delay was adjusted which is perfectly fine.
Nas Posted April 12, 2016 Report Posted April 12, 2016 High priests also are completely countered by using a GTB or maya so the link wouldn't matter too much... not sure what that point is though since soul link has the same effect as it always has the skill itself wasn't changed only the aftercast delay was adjusted which is perfectly fine. Ikr, that just simillar job that using link to be that "OP". But can counter it easily
Zelot Overlord Posted April 12, 2016 Report Posted April 12, 2016 My point is they aren't changing the skill itself the skill itself is the same they are simply changing the delay which makes it balanced. Sinx don't need any more changes to them they do plenty of damage as they are with the spam they have currently.
Genesis Posted April 12, 2016 Report Posted April 12, 2016 @Zelot Overlord. I am sure I have answered this question multiple times. Harmony has many problems with it. It has caused more problems than it has solved. A quick google search would reveal this fact.
Ares Posted April 12, 2016 Report Posted April 12, 2016 Why don't you accept the fact that we did not "nerf" it (based on how you describe nerf) because we only made the spam equal to a legitimate spam of a normal player without 3rd party program like break neck at that time.
niemono89 Posted April 12, 2016 Report Posted April 12, 2016 So weird when people tried to compare sinx(2nd class) with gunslinger(expanded 1st class) Both have own benefits role actually :P There's a major reason why gunslinger have massive damage=REVOLVER.RIFLES.GRENADE LAUNCHER.SHOTGUN.GATLING GUNIn other way, sinx were just have melee counterparts=SWORDS.AXES.KATARS.DAGGERS. *If you can't kill players using sonic blow, soul breaker would help too,since the new updates were already implemented :P*
Bishop Posted April 12, 2016 Report Posted April 12, 2016 From what I've tested (even on high ping) I'm able to do 3 sonic blows with link, 4 on occasion. On friggs usakoring + ring that still equalled to 350-380k dmg (on 3 sonic blows). That's plenty of damage to burst most classes down. I don't see the problem here. There was no 'nerf' the client and server sided delays were matched. The only ones that feel a lot of difference are the ones using programs.
Zelot Overlord Posted April 12, 2016 Report Posted April 12, 2016 @Zelot Overlord. I am sure I have answered this question multiple times. Harmony has many problems with it. It has caused more problems than it has solved. A quick google search would reveal this fact. Harmony is only one of the many third party protection programs that are available. If you would like I can list a few for you. Here's a starter link that took me 2 minutes to google and find. http://www.ro-services.com/category/game-guard/
Ares Posted April 13, 2016 Report Posted April 13, 2016 Harmony is only one of the many third party protection programs that are available. If you would like I can list a few for you. Here's a starter link that took me 2 minutes to google and find. http://www.ro-services.com/category/game-guard/ I believe one of the reasons why Genesis don't use those is that it's buggy and has several issues.
Ares Posted April 13, 2016 Report Posted April 13, 2016 From what I've tested (even on high ping) I'm able to do 3 sonic blows with link, 4 on occasion. On friggs usakoring + ring that still equalled to 350-380k dmg (on 3 sonic blows). That's plenty of damage to burst most classes down. I don't see the problem here. There was no 'nerf' the client and server sided delays were matched. The only ones that feel a lot of difference are the ones using programs. Correct. Balancing is different from nerfing.
Zelot Overlord Posted April 13, 2016 Report Posted April 13, 2016 I believe one of the reasons why Genesis don't use those is that it's buggy and has several issues. Better to have a buggy protection that blocks most of what people are using instead of not having anything and nerfing everything to balance people who are cheating in the first place.
Ares Posted April 13, 2016 Report Posted April 13, 2016 Better to have a buggy protection that blocks most of what people are using instead of not having anything and nerfing everything to balance people who are cheating in the first place. We are back to nerfing. We did not nerf because we only BALANCED the spam of a legit vs a 3rd party. Also, I said that the protection you are suggesting is not only buggy but has several issues to our server as well.
Zelot Overlord Posted April 13, 2016 Report Posted April 13, 2016 Fairly certain that buying protection also comes with the server updates as well so it shouldn't have any issues. Also when you change something that a legit player can do because of a player who is using third party programs to do it you should probably get some protection to stop the third party program users instead of changing the entire servers aftercast delays to "balance" it when it's not balanced anyway since people use autoseed regardless and get away with it. The GM team needs to stop changing skills and start changing the server itself to get some third party program protection. That way skills like sonic blow, fire bolt, ect can be returned to their normal aftercast speeds because all these third party program users would no longer be able to spam as they are now. It's probably faster to just make the proper server changes instead of touching every single skill and increasing aftercast delays and adjusting damage modifiers. If you would like I can probably get in touch with a developer/coder who can help you with it since it would help the server and he knows far more about making those changes than I do.
