Gs Tracking Is Op Af

[Genesis]

I've implemented another change to the algorithm ingame which should help significantly.

[Champagnepapi]

For LK, BIO and other classes that has 300k HP, the casting update enables them to use seed before taking another tracking damage. However, classes such as sniper and clown with 250k HP below its almost impossible to survive. Also, if you put this in situation such as WOE or GVG, the team with 3 or more GStracking will easily dominate. i.e. 2-4 GSTracking defending at the portal buffed with x2 and ms.

Below are the great ideas that our fellow players have suggested. Salute +1

***Warning: Lengthy explanation of me trying to make a point and voting for the reduction of the overall damage of Tracking because it seems like it's not going to be lowered.***

With or without cast time the damage is still way over the roof.

Let's see... Why are these skills made to be in a forced neutral state (can't be converted to any element): Asura Strike, Acid Bomb, Martyr's Reckoning, Final Strike etc.

It's because they naturally deal a great amount of damage and thank goodness for Ghostring and Raydric (let's face it, you put these on as default most of the time because those skills above are usually what you face in the battlefield) we can deal with all these with ease. But then here comes the Gunslinger which with its presence alone will make you want to switch to "counter gear" even before it shoots a bullet.

650% damage increase to a skill that already deals great damage even without ring benefits, and you can convert to another element by using another bullet property is not balanced at all.

Some examples of skills that can be converted to another element for it to deal actual damage against GR + Raydrics:

• Cart Termination
• Mammonite
• Sonic Blow
• Bowling Bash

None of these skills are comparable to Guardian Tracking in terms of current damage. It completely overshadows all of those by a great, great, margin.

1. lower the damage of that skill. 650% seems too much as it can one hit most classes provided he has the right cards. Not even Asura can one hit people even with the right cards, SB had to hit more than 3x for it to insta kill someone, Double bolt has to proc to one hit with prof, armor has to be broken for acid demonstration to kill someone instantly. With Tracking however, the only thing you need to do is cast it and wait and you will kill someone(especially if that someone is fighting someone else, he cant outseed that for sure).

[Ares]

I don't want to spoon feed everyone but there is BIG counter for this build using 1 job. That's all that it takes...

[Ares]

If you guys know how to play a Prof with Dispell and Spell Breaker, it should be the answer to all your problems.

[moruce]

-1 i dont think tracking is op there are ways to counter it

[Budaz]

If you guys know how to play a Prof with Dispell and Spell Breaker, it should be the answer to all your problems.

Consider that many ppl here dunno how to play jobs correctly xD

[Ares]

Consider that many ppl here dunno how to play jobs correctly xD

Making excuses all the time? XD

[Biomehanika]

Basically, 1 class made strong and most of the other classes have to figure out ways to counter it.

Then another class made strong, and most of the other classes have to figure out ways to counter it.

And it goes on and on and on and on and on and on....(fades).......

[Nas]

Tsk. Sad life. When people just cant accept the truth and critism.

Edited July 23, 2016 by anasputra09

[Ares]

Basically, 1 class made strong and most of the other classes have to figure out ways to counter it.

Then another class made strong, and most of the other classes have to figure out ways to counter it.

And it goes on and on and on and on and on and on....(fades).......

You say this if you've tried all the new rings we made.

[Rayray]

I don't want to spoon feed everyone but there is BIG counter for this build using 1 job. That's all that it takes...

I already said there are a few counters. Ninja being one, stalker that copied flip tatami is another. I said it a couple of posts and it got buried somehow.

I think the issue stems out of this: So to counter 1 build for GS, we have to switch characters while all we need to do to combat other classes is to change gear.

[symphony37]

you guys just think about how OP tracking is, even when all the hardships and work of some ppl who made the ring coz of its rewards are not even complaining about the nerf anymore. Have you seen an FS ninja, A taekwon ranker? Well, PROS find ways to counter it in game not thru nerf. Actually, if you lower the damage to 200% and make it 0 cast again. you will still get owned and you will still complain about how hard to counter it. and what's the point of having the Guardian Ring SOOOO HARD to make and like compare its dmg to a blessed/cursed one. If that's the case, then players wont bother getting a guardian ring. Come on. and actually, Gunslingers, DEAL devastating damage compared to snipers, i mean its already in their class description. sheesh.

[Ares]

you guys just think about how OP tracking is, even when all the hardships and work of some ppl who made the ring coz of its rewards are not even complaining about the nerf anymore. Have you seen an FS ninja, A taekwon ranker? Well, PROS find ways to counter it in game not thru nerf. Actually, if you lower the damage to 200% and make it 0 cast again. you will still get owned and you will still complain about how hard to counter it. and what's the point of having the Guardian Ring SOOOO HARD to make and like compare its dmg to a blessed/cursed one. If that's the case, then players wont bother getting a guardian ring. Come on. and actually, Gunslingers, DEAL devastating damage compared to snipers, i mean its already in their class description. sheesh.

;)

[Ares]

***Warning: Lengthy explanation of me trying to make a point and voting for the reduction of the overall damage of Tracking because it seems like it's not going to be lowered.***

With or without cast time the damage is still way over the roof.

Let's see... Why are these skills made to be in a forced neutral state (can't be converted to any element): Asura Strike, Acid Bomb, Martyr's Reckoning, Final Strike etc.

It's because they naturally deal a great amount of damage and thank goodness for Ghostring and Raydric (let's face it, you put these on as default most of the time because those skills above are usually what you face in the battlefield) we can deal with all these with ease. But then here comes the Gunslinger which with its presence alone will make you want to switch to "counter gear" even before it shoots a bullet.

650% damage increase to a skill that already deals great damage even without ring benefits, and you can convert to another element by using another bullet property is not balanced at all.

Some examples of skills that can be converted to another element for it to deal actual damage against GR + Raydrics:

• Cart Termination
• Mammonite
• Sonic Blow
• Bowling Bash

None of these skills are comparable to Guardian Tracking in terms of current damage. It completely overshadows all of those by a great, great, margin.

Okay time for scenarios:

TEAM FIGHT: You face against a party with a Champion, a Bio, a Paladin, a Ninja, a Sniper (meh) and whatnot. Ah, you can deal with this, with your own team because it's the usual. But then comes a Guardian Gunslinger and joins the opposing team. You be like "oh shit switch to your 'counter' gear or else you surely will die from the GS". Doing so leaves you very vulnerable to the other classes trying to kill you and hoorah, you're dead from Acid Bomb or a not-even-full Asura Strike. Okay let's use Pneuma then. But you get nudged by magnum break.

"Hey, I'm a melee hitter but i need to stay in this Pneuma to keep me safe. And please cast a pneuma for me (because i don't want to bother getting or using an accessory that triggers it... or maybe i do but thats way too much of a hassle to prevent ONLY ONE CLASS from killing you with one shot) so i can walk around very slowly and very carefully until I get to my target who by the way is constantly moving away."

Yeah I was right. The presence of the current Guardian Gunslinger alone can ruin the match already without even firing that bullet yet. The only way I can see this thing becoming balanced is having the cast time and a damage that can only deal around 150 - 180 - 200k damage at maximum potential (Ship Captain, Thana, Provoke, x2, whateverthehellelseyoucanusetoincreaseitsdamage). Yes, because you need an actual team to win in a team fight, not only a Gunslinger who stands in one spot casting Tracking (and/or maybe a Paladin as a life support... so seriously, where's the strategy and teamwork here?) that currently can deal all the damage (over 300k damage) you will ever need to kill people in the average 210 - 240k HP pool.

You get hit by a 150 - 200k damage Tracking from a lone Gunslinger and you're alright, you can seed and tank that. But during a team fight, you can get hit by other attacks like asura, and acid bomb, then the 150 - 200k damage Tracking should serve as a finisher and I think that's how it should be. A finisher skill on opponents who have already lost about 1/4 of their HP from your allies' attacks.

Guardian Gunslinger players: "So that's it? We can't kill anymore (OHKO) and we now only need a team to do that?"

Give me a break... this is how we lead to the next scenario:

1 ON 1 FIGHT: Now I'll step on the Gunslinger shoes to be fair with you. So, let's fight one on one.

I cast Tracking against you and I'm using the Guardian ring with it. BLAM. That was one massive damage but you don't die. What do I do to kill you? I can't spam this Tracking skill at all because it needs to cast.

Here you go, use this another skill called FULL BUSTER.

See it as Tracking (Team Fights - because you need some people to protect you and make the first wave of damage to them while casting) and Full Buster (1vs1 Fights - because it's fast and you can manage to kill on your own).

There are 3 different kinds of rings now. And different weapons. And that means you can switch depending on the situation. And don't tell me "Not everyone has the tokens to get all those different rings and weapons". Well that is completely your choice. These Guardian rings are pricey due to the difficulty of producing them, and yet more and more people are starting to get them in a heartbeat. With the state of things I'm pretty sure every Gunslinger out there will just get the Guardian rings because of this crazy overkill potential. There's no need anymore to use other classes because in a PK server, it's all about PVP, and the best way to make mindless killing right now is going for Guardian Gunslinger.

But know this: There can never be something that wipes any class instantly in a game in just one press of a button. If there is, then you have a broken game overall.

And for heaven's sake, we can't just say "find a counter to it" all the time because there is no counter to a skill that can surely and instantly kill you, not even pneuma which requires you to stand in one spot. And not all classes have the Pneuma skill at their disposal, and there's only one card that gives you this benefit but only if it procs while youre being hit by physical attacks. What is there to proc if you're not even alive at all. Is there a headgear out there that can give you the ability to cast Pneuma? Well fill us in, but I'm pretty sure not everyone is gonna be able to have it (especially if it's from Activity Tokens...). All this struggle, just to counter ONE class... jeebus.

Lastly, yes, everyone can go GS Guardian Tracking build. And so I welcome everyone to World War Gunslinger, the RO where only "Gunslinger Lives Matter".

Rant over.

Just use a redux Professor. Spell Breaker, Dispell, etc.. Poof problems gone. Research more on this please.

[Maiimaii]

-1 i dont think tracking is op there are ways to counter it

Oh reallllllllllllly? ofc every skills has counters. but how u gonna do w/ that high spam rate TRACKING dealing 100-200k DAMAGE LOL?

If you guys know how to play a Prof with Dispell and Spell Breaker, it should be the answer to all your problems.

HAHAHAHAHA are you making me laf? Tracking DONT EVEN CAST with some Combo Cards and ask for Dispell? Spell Breaker? NICE! SEEMS BALANCED

and it his 2x dmg more than FUllbuster

and Redux prof? you kidding me? how da fk u gonna kill him then? Stare at him? .... we all knows im more experienced in pvp than you i even stay longer than this server i know how the pvp works well but this? what you gonna do afffter you dispell? we dont do such gangs etc etc like what DC/WS doing :)

Making excuses all the time? XD

Excuses? LUL.

[Maiimaii]

Balancing a class is never easy on a high rate server.

Here are my thoughts.

Tracking is a bit OP WHEN USED IN A GROUP SITUATION. That is, if a GS is fighting with at least a pally, chances are he can finish that tracking(provided he used phen card or blood butterfly card) while staying alive.

Tracking is a bit useless against certain classes in a 1v1 situation. That cast time is gonna bite you in the ass, but only if the enemy can withstand its damage when the GS hits the skill. If you can still one hit them(classes that has lower hp), then tracking is still OP in that regard.

Suggestions on my end. Not all of this should be implemented, at minimum, at least one of them should work.

1. lower the damage of that skill. 650% seems too much as it can one hit most classes provided he has the right cards. Not even Asura can one hit people even with the right cards, SB had to hit more than 3x for it to insta kill someone, Double bolt has to proc to one hit with prof, armor has to be broken for acid demonstration to kill someone instantly. With Tracking however, the only thing you need to do is cast it and wait and you will kill someone(especially if that someone is fighting someone else, he cant outseed that for sure).

2. What Ami said can be plausible: make a weapon for tracking, make it a two handed rifle, REMOVE THE EFFECT ALTOGETHER on the ring and put it in the weapon. That way, GS gains the same weakness of SB sinx, which is reducts. High damage, low survival. That happened on SinX, why not GS?

3. Remove the effect of phen card and bloody butterfly card as well. If I understand it, Ares wants Tracking skill to be like a positional type of skill, meaning the player's position should be good enough before you use it. Hence, removing this two cards would make it work as intended. If a GS can just stand there, cast tracking everytime he can while being kept alive by his Paladin, then we get OP. If tracking can be interrupted by just being hit, then it can never be OP.

Yes GS tracking build wud be useless at 1v1 fight IF ITS CASTING THO

I was fighting this GS yesterday and his Tracking is Non-Cast.

[Maiimaii]

K, just wanna say 1 thing;

I agree that with instant cast and that spam rate, the skill was OP, but now its just too seedeable.

I must remember to all of my dear forsakenRO mates that 95% of ppl in woe use autopot (plus all the other shitty third programs) and that makes you see snipers tanking thana FB's, 1 champ asura's + another 2 snipers (I see many of that kind in every woe, and all of us know that this is real) at the same time. Oh, and dont forget those pallies autoseeding too!.

So, if you dont want to make that ring useless, first make cast of tracking unbreakeable (or whatever we call that) cause its gonna be imposible to even cast it in woe.

Second, even with that, dmg with thana and full geared (2 x Fbh and ship hat) is of 300k max so, sorry to repeat that but, dmg its too seedeable.

So, I think that the best will be to reduce its dmg a bit, make its cast time reduceable again and stop the crying, or just add that ring to the long list of useless gears that we have.

And please, for future gear testing, PLEASE CONSIDER THAT NEARLY THE 95% OF PPL PLAYING WOE ARE AUTOPOTING AND HAXIN.

Sorry to say that again, but its true, and its the main reason that most of the old good players have quited.

True +1

[Maiimaii]

There will be no end to this.

Once the issue with GS Guardian is solved, there are many other Guardians which needed a huge consideration.

Apart from GS guardian, most of the other Guardians are definitely not worth the time and effort to quest.

Definitely no idea what was the purpose of the other guardians, well most of it.

There will be an end to this if they just lessen the damage of stupid trracking or put cast on it.

I know guardians is not that easy to make, might be the hardest quest atm on FRO but 650% is too much and its non-cast

while the rest of guardians rings are not that good compare to GS.

[BeforeMidnight]

Just use a redux Professor. Spell Breaker, Dispell, etc.. Poof problems gone. Research more on this please.

With all due respect, we're not even talking about the cast time here anymore. Sure we can use that on them while casting but what we're currently pointing out in here is the out of this world damage. Rayray was right, we used to only use gears to counter different class skills, but to counter this particular one you're gonna give us this answer? A spell breaker Prof? Doesn't that spell overpowered to you? How many classes are there in this game?

It used to be something like classes are not exactly counters to each other, and that is because they are balanced. They all deal almost the same average damage. And no class overpowered specifically only one class, and no class specifically shut down another.

1 GUARDIAN RING, to nullify it, you need EXACTLY and not just ANOTHER class, but ONLY a Professor. Where's the respect in all the other classes?

You can't say "oh this is fine now" just by watching and observing it one time in an event or two. Besides, like what you guys said, this is still in beta. So I guess this is one thing u need to research more on.

Edited July 23, 2016 by BeforeMidnight

[symphony37]

LOL. If you put it this way, 1v1 Geared Prof(cursed ring) vs Geared GS Guardian, Who do you think will win? Point is, They will always find a way to counter each other. to tell you honestly, I tried dueling against a creator, an lk, an fb type GS, a ninja, a taek, a clown, a pally, a prof and a friggin ninja! I win if I could hit hard meaning use all my buffs and foods and everything you can think of to increase my dmg just to deliver that 1 hit and win. sometimes I win but most of the time I died. so what are you still pointing out? the damage? if you work in team fights you can easily kill a tracking GS even if there are 3 of them and a pally. normal attack them and they cant even cast a single tracking skill. sheesh.

[Ares]

Tracking skill has been put down from 650 to 500. I don't really have time to argue here. I will just hope that someone will somehow know several ways to counter GS Tracking.

I don't want to get stuck in a players' loop:

1. I'm not a GS Tracking user and I see some so skillful (someone who spent time researching on how to effectively play this build) this GS can kill a party. I decide to just rant instead of researching how to counter and have it nerfed...
2. I'm a GS Tracking user and I spent time researching to make my cast time real fast and not lose the damage I want. Politics dominated and with the majority of the ranters, the tracking build gets nerfed. I will just turn off my computer and cry for wasting my efforts.

Edited July 23, 2016 by Ares

[symphony37]

there there. so if you get killed by a tracking GS with 500% increase attack damage and has a cast, don't complain. this just means you have a very bad skill on spamming that seed. hahaha!

[Yatogami]

Tracking skill has been put down from 650 to 500. I don't really have time to argue here. I will just hope that someone will somehow know several ways to counter GS Tracking.

I don't want to get stuck in a players' loop:

1. I'm not a GS Tracking user and I see some so skillful (someone who spent time researching on how to effectively play this build) this GS can kill a party. I decide to just rant instead of researching how to counter and have it nerfed...
2. I'm a GS Tracking user and I spent time researching to make my cast time real fast and not lose the damage I want. Politics dominated and with the majority of the ranters, the tracking build gets nerfed. I will just turn off my computer and cry for wasting my efforts.

Number 2 is me :D

[Yatogami]

you guys just think about how OP tracking is, even when all the hardships and work of some ppl who made the ring coz of its rewards are not even complaining about the nerf anymore. Have you seen an FS ninja, A taekwon ranker? Well, PROS find ways to counter it in game not thru nerf. Actually, if you lower the damage to 200% and make it 0 cast again. you will still get owned and you will still complain about how hard to counter it. and what's the point of having the Guardian Ring SOOOO HARD to make and like compare its dmg to a blessed/cursed one. If that's the case, then players wont bother getting a guardian ring. Come on. and actually, Gunslingers, DEAL devastating damage compared to snipers, i mean its already in their class description. sheesh.

+1 to you sir :D

[symphony37]

Number 2 is me :D

we are on the same boat sir. :))