Pk Off In Abyss_03

[sartorius19]

Firstly i would like to call out the idiots. All players knew perfectly well this is a PK server, and we play this best high rate server because players like to pvp and to be in this server. And this is discussed in a post for a specific reason. Please read what people type and think deeper with your head, then comment with a more specific and solid reason and make this constructive. (For example, you can simply say you enjoy killing under geared player in abyss_03 but dislike getting PVP token in a real pvp environment. Turning of PK ruined your fun.)

Now, i can go back and comment:

As Rayray and Sartorius19 already covered most points, i am just gonna restate things i agreed on.

In the situation of Farming zeny, PK off in abyss_03 can let more under geared players with enough damage to farm there for the boxes and it surely will let new player get more zeny.

For gearing purpose, right now detale has no key gear drops so players hunt him for quest items. If you are new and try to get gears u should hunt Ktullanux first then all other mvps or just simply camp at the mvp room NOT hunting detale... (if you want detale card, just broadcast and buy them for cheap, there will be players happily sell them to you)

For quest purpose, just think of the 9realm quest items. Certain things harder to hunt because they may meant to be "rare" in the server.

For fair chances of getting detale loot, sart19 had a pretty good suggestion (plus some mmo uses that feature too). Or read what rayray said, because i do the similar thing with my guildmates to secure drops from mvp.

So in the light of "more zeny for newbie", I would say +1 to turn off PK in abyss_03 but i don't think this can help new players with the detale since the loot will belongs to player with more damage output. Plus, it will only be a short term fixed, since there seems to be a growing number of players but not growing places for farming even though mobs are instant spawn, there are limits for player per maps. If i think of the longer term changes, I would think there could be another custom map for zeny faming purpose (BUT not as high zeny per hour as abyss_03 unless players learn to group up and farm), then we can leave the abyss_03 as they were now.

I can foresee people will talk about seed and berry farming, but well you sell them to players, not npc.

Just this point. I dont see it how will new ones get more zeny, they farm on different maps simply because they are always getting killed in abyss. But my point here, after the pk is off on abyss, is that, New ones knowing well that they cant be killed will storm the map, thus more players on map = less drop for each. considering the drop chance of treasure boxes.

[warrior911]

For quest purpose, just think of the 9realm quest items. Certain things harder to hunt because they may meant to be "rare" in the server.

For fair chances of getting detale loot, sart19 had a pretty good suggestion (plus some mmo uses that feature too). Or read what rayray said, because i do the similar thing with my guildmates to secure drops from mvp.

So in the light of "more zeny for newbie", I would say +1 to turn off PK in abyss_03 but i don't think this can help new players with the detale since the loot will belongs to player with more damage output. Plus, it will only be a short term fixed, since there seems to be a growing number of players but not growing places for farming even though mobs are instant spawn, there are limits for player per maps. If i think of the longer term changes, I would think there could be another custom map for zeny faming purpose (BUT not as high zeny per hour as abyss_03 unless players learn to group up and farm), then we can leave the abyss_03 as they were now.

I can foresee people will talk about seed and berry farming, but well you sell them to players, not npc.

Combining this with what Rayray just mentioned, EoF would still be "rare" since solo player or not, an MVP guild there will get it anyway and turning PK off is not going to affect the MVP aspect of this topic. If it does, it would only make the EoF drop more rare since the MVP guilds can't be killed. So turning PK off would reinforce the purpose of frigg quest which is meant to be difficult, besides newbies have no necessity to actually kill Detale

With regards to the farming aspect, I don't see what's wrong with having less treasure box per person (assuming the rate of mob respawn is actually slower than the rate they are getting killed). The overall gain would still be more because there will be more players who can farm

[sartorius19]

Combining this with what Rayray just mentioned, EoF would still be "rare" since solo player or not, an MVP guild there will get it anyway and turning PK off is not going to affect the MVP aspect of this topic. If it does, it would only make the EoF drop more rare since the MVP guilds can't be killed. So turning PK off would reinforce the purpose of frigg quest which is meant to be difficult, besides newbies have no necessity to actually kill Detale

With regards to the farming aspect, I don't see what's wrong with having less treasure box per person (assuming the rate of mob respawn is actually slower than the rate they are getting killed). The overall gain would still be more because there will be more players who can farm

i bet to disagree in this one sire,

you see, as i aforementioned, more people in the map will also heighten the rate of the mobs being killed. and will increase it to the point that it will lower gain for each individual player, thus making it less viable for new ones to actually get treasure boxes considering the drop chance.

[Rayray]

Combining this with what Rayray just mentioned, EoF would still be "rare" since solo player or not, an MVP guild there will get it anyway and turning PK off is not going to affect the MVP aspect of this topic. If it does, it would only make the EoF drop more rare since the MVP guilds can't be killed. So turning PK off would reinforce the purpose of frigg quest which is meant to be difficult, besides newbies have no necessity to actually kill Detale

With regards to the farming aspect, I don't see what's wrong with having less treasure box per person (assuming the rate of mob respawn is actually slower than the rate they are getting killed). The overall gain would still be more because there will be more players who can farm

Turning PK Off would affect EoF. Even if we have MVP guilds nowadays(and I encountered a lot of them), with pk on i could kill most of them, even if they are on parties. That would be different if we have PK off. In my experience, it took us about 2-3 members to completly kill off the MVP guild that was trying to kill the MVP we found first(4 members total, but the other is focused ONLY on the mvp, hence 3 of us fought the mvp guild). Same scenario but having PK off, and only having found the MVP 2 mins before the MVP guild arrived, and seeing that they outnumbered us easily, we would have lost the said MVP in that situation. Having PK off would diminish the purpose of Frigg's quest actually, since the MVP guild would monopolize the drop more, no player would try to hunt and they would just buy EOF instead since it would be easier, but it would be costly. And the only one gaining proit there would be the MVP guild. While with PK on, some players can fight them off easily.

As this server started 7 years ago, we always had the rule that MVPs are free for all, this ruling made it so that hunting the said mvps made the players competitive or try to summon the mvp themselves. Not to be nitpicking but we should try to stop the spoonfeeding for once. The quest was made to be hard, and it was made with the thinking that MVPs are free for all. Else they would not have put the drops in MVPs and would have just put them in a random mob with lower chance.

We should also stop using "it's for the newbies" argument because it ain't fooling anybody. It would be easier to just say that it is harder to get EOF because PK is on, instead of reasoning out it is for the new guys and become a white knight. With regards to this suggestion, it is clearly due to EOF, not zeny farming. It is far easier to gain money by looting stone of sage or fire armors than getting zeny from treasure boxes in my experience. So this suggestion is just using the "zeny farming" aspect of abyss_03 but it definitely is not the main reason. As for Detale, I already said that newbies should not even consider hunting him until they start the friggs quest, and that needs 2 forsaken king shields, therefore, at that point in time, the one hunting detale should not even be called a newbie.

Again, i am just pointing out that we dont really need to change things as they are fine the way they were. I believe there are more pressing things than this and this one might actually create problems.

[nate1002]

Just this point. I dont see it how will new ones get more zeny, they farm on different maps simply because they are always getting killed in abyss. But my point here, after the pk is off on abyss, is that, New ones knowing well that they cant be killed will storm the map, thus more players on map = less drop for each. considering the drop chance of treasure boxes.

yup, i agree. In the long run it will just be more people on map with lesser zeny on each. But new players (They still need to be able to 1hit acidus to get decent zeny/hr, and a sniper can easily do that with FAS and legend gears) can go there and try their luck and hard work. And i also agree turning off pk is only a temporary fix.

well, rms.net stated their spawn rate is 60/10mins, so this makes the "turning off pk" less viable.

if they instant spawn, it will be a complete different scenario

Edited February 9, 2015 by nate1002

[warrior911]

Turning PK Off would affect EoF. Even if we have MVP guilds nowadays(and I encountered a lot of them), with pk on i could kill most of them, even if they are on parties. That would be different if we have PK off. In my experience, it took us about 2-3 members to completly kill off the MVP guild that was trying to kill the MVP we found first(4 members total, but the other is focused ONLY on the mvp, hence 3 of us fought the mvp guild). Same scenario but having PK off, and only having found the MVP 2 mins before the MVP guild arrived, and seeing that they outnumbered us easily, we would have lost the said MVP in that situation. Having PK off would diminish the purpose of Frigg's quest actually, since the MVP guild would monopolize the drop more, no player would try to hunt and they would just buy EOF instead since it would be easier, but it would be costly. And the only one gaining proit there would be the MVP guild. While with PK on, some players can fight them off easily.

In your example, you were likely geared for PVP which is what this original suggestion is arguing about. If you were geared properly, 2 mins is a LOT of time for a solo hunter to kill Detale. It only takes a few asura to kill Detale with the right gear and build. In your scenario, you should’ve killed Detale already if not dealt a lot of damage such that you will still get the drop regardless of how many others arrive.

The MVP drop should be secured if PK was off in this case. In your scenario, you were lucky that you are stronger than those who tried kill-stealing. But if there was more of them and they were more experienced they still have a great chance to get the drop. Sure you can do your warp trick if PK was on but my point was that PK off would be better securing MVP drop for those who find it first.

With PK on, you just need strong killers and you can monopolize the drop. I’m not talking about just the MVP guilds but also the elite geared players in the server who have geared friends and can kill off the hunters. So basically, the ones getting the drop are those that have connections and keep getting richer.

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As this server started 7 years ago, we always had the rule that MVPs are free for all, this ruling made it so that hunting the said mvps made the players competitive or try to summon the mvp themselves. Not to be nitpicking but we should try to stop the spoonfeeding for once. The quest was made to be hard, and it was made with the thinking that MVPs are free for all. Else they would not have put the drops in MVPs and would have just put them in a random mob with lower chance.

This is quite contradictory to your opinion earlier. Up there you were saying that it would be difficult if we change PK setting since MVP guilds can monopolize it and now you are suggesting that it is meant to be difficult so we should keep PK setting as it is?

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We should also stop using "it's for the newbies" argument because it ain't fooling anybody. It would be easier to just say that it is harder to get EOF because PK is on, instead of reasoning out it is for the new guys and become a white knight. With regards to this suggestion, it is clearly due to EOF, not zeny farming. It is far easier to gain money by looting stone of sage or fire armors than getting zeny from treasure boxes in my experience. So this suggestion is just using the "zeny farming" aspect of abyss_03 but it definitely is not the main reason. As for Detale, I already said that newbies should not even consider hunting him until they start the friggs quest, and that needs 2 forsaken king shields, therefore, at that point in time, the one hunting detale should not even be called a newbie.

As Sartorius mentioned, the map would be flooded with farmers since many people would want to farm here but they can’t because of PK. Not saying this map is the best way to make zeny but not everyone finds stone of sages or fire armors to be better. If implemented, this would be an extra option for farmers. It’s true EoF is a bigger issue here but for many newbies, abyss is their work place. Newbies who have complete legendary gears can kill Detale if it wasn’t for other players. They should be given better chance and not only to fully geared ones. I bet they get killed all the time perhaps before they could even warp if they come close to Detale

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Again, i am just pointing out that we dont really need to change things as they are fine the way they were. I believe there are more pressing things than this and this one might actually create problems.

Is it really fine as it is? If you look at the market, EoF price keeps increasing because it’s being hoarded. You can see so many people always buying Frigg yet you also see often people selling EoF/Frigg overpriced because they are the same people who have it. This suggestion may or may not fix the problem but I don’t think the situation couldn’t be better

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i bet to disagree in this one sire,

you see, as i aforementioned, more people in the map will also heighten the rate of the mobs being killed. and will increase it to the point that it will lower gain for each individual player, thus making it less viable for new ones to actually get treasure boxes considering the drop chance.

Yes this is what I was saying :)

Except that I don’t see how that is a bad thing. This would allow for newbies to have extra spot to farm on since they wouldn’t need any gear to kill the mobs and they wouldn’t have to worry about other players. There would be less loots per person but there would be greater distribution and more newbies would benefit.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

Again I don’t fully support the original suggestion, and I have another idea but I don’t know if it’s even possible so please don’t kill me on this. Revised suggestion would be to turn off PK during weekdays so newbies can farm all they want without getting killed. For the MVP aspect, lower the EoF drop rate to about 7% on weekdays and increase the drop rate on weekends to 15% or so, thus EoF drops per week remains about the same. Just a suggestion :)

[ace_30]

<3 Pk.haehae

[Rayray]

In your example, you were likely geared for PVP which is what this original suggestion is arguing about. If you were geared properly, 2 mins is a LOT of time for a solo hunter to kill Detale. It only takes a few asura to kill Detale with the right gear and build. In your scenario, you should’ve killed Detale already if not dealt a lot of damage such that you will still get the drop regardless of how many others arrive.

The MVP drop should be secured if PK was off in this case. In your scenario, you were lucky that you are stronger than those who tried kill-stealing. But if there was more of them and they were more experienced they still have a great chance to get the drop. Sure you can do your warp trick if PK was on but my point was that PK off would be better securing MVP drop for those who find it first.

With PK on, you just need strong killers and you can monopolize the drop. I’m not talking about just the MVP guilds but also the elite geared players in the server who have geared friends and can kill off the hunters. So basically, the ones getting the drop are those that have connections and keep getting richer.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

This is quite contradictory to your opinion earlier. Up there you were saying that it would be difficult if we change PK setting since MVP guilds can monopolize it and now you are suggesting that it is meant to be difficult so we should keep PK setting as it is?

__________________________________________________________________________________________

As Sartorius mentioned, the map would be flooded with farmers since many people would want to farm here but they can’t because of PK. Not saying this map is the best way to make zeny but not everyone finds stone of sages or fire armors to be better. If implemented, this would be an extra option for farmers. It’s true EoF is a bigger issue here but for many newbies, abyss is their work place. Newbies who have complete legendary gears can kill Detale if it wasn’t for other players. They should be given better chance and not only to fully geared ones. I bet they get killed all the time perhaps before they could even warp if they come close to Detale

__________________________________________________________________________________________

Is it really fine as it is? If you look at the market, EoF price keeps increasing because it’s being hoarded. You can see so many people always buying Frigg yet you also see often people selling EoF/Frigg overpriced because they are the same people who have it. This suggestion may or may not fix the problem but I don’t think the situation couldn’t be better

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Yes this is what I was saying :)

Except that I don’t see how that is a bad thing. This would allow for newbies to have extra spot to farm on since they wouldn’t need any gear to kill the mobs and they wouldn’t have to worry about other players. There would be less loots per person but there would be greater distribution and more newbies would benefit.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

Again I don’t fully support the original suggestion, and I have another idea but I don’t know if it’s even possible so please don’t kill me on this. Revised suggestion would be to turn off PK during weekdays so newbies can farm all they want without getting killed. For the MVP aspect, lower the EoF drop rate to about 7% on weekdays and increase the drop rate on weekends to 15% or so, thus EoF drops per week remains about the same. Just a suggestion :)

With PK on or off, no matter how you sugar coat it, the ones with the numbers and gears will take it. However, with PK off, it is pretty easy to camp the said place. If you think turning PK off would lower EOF's price then think again. The issue was hoarding of EOF, that is completely irrelevant to the PK status of the map. The ones who are hoarding will still hoard even if pk is on or off. That's the point im trying to say.

I forgot one point in my example, the guy who found detale was actually not on mvp gears. He called us since he can't kill it himself(ironically, he was there trying to farm because he thought it was the best place to get zeny, and he got lucky that he saw detale). It would take him more than 2 mins as he was not a champ(he is a sniper). That's why it took more than 2 minutes. With that said, if pk was off and our guy using sniper found detale first, 2 mins go by and an mvp guild with champs see detale, who do you think will get the drop? PK off is not a surefire way to secure the mvp, it actually encourages to killsteal with champ easily.

Friggs quest has always been difficult. There are no quest guides for it to start off. The biggest issue with frigg is the EOF because it drops from an MVP. It is not intended originally that EOF was sold at a higher price, it was not when almost no one talks about friggs quest requirements(i bought my EOF around 100 tokens in fact). When the information was out, people hoarded it. the hoarding situation worsened when MVP guilds hoarded items needed for quests. It has been the case for years, even on other items. The issue is not the PK, it's the hoarding. changing the pk status of the map, I daresay it will be the same or it will become worse.

I would rather have Detale on an mvp room with lower drops if the issue is EOF. Or the easier one is to make pk off in abyss but put Detale in another map where zeny farming is non existent.

[sartorius19]

yup, i agree. In the long run it will just be more people on map with lesser zeny on each. But new players (They still need to be able to 1hit acidus to get decent zeny/hr, and a sniper can easily do that with FAS and legend gears) can go there and try their luck and hard work. And i also agree turning off pk is only a temporary fix.

well, rms.net stated their spawn rate is 60/10mins, so this makes the "turning off pk" less viable.

if they instant spawn, it will be a complete different scenario

theoretically speaking. not actually, as long as the one who 1st hit the mobs did not die nor warp around, the loots of the mobs who get to hit them 1st gets the loots even if others tried to kill them.

but some cases i have experienced is that i just SG and warp. and still get drops when mobs are killed whether by others.or by me. Or the drops would just lay on the ground.

well doubt their spawn would be instant as it will pump more zeny and thus devalue it.

In your example, you were likely geared for PVP which is what this original suggestion is arguing about. If you were geared properly, 2 mins is a LOT of time for a solo hunter to kill Detale. It only takes a few asura to kill Detale with the right gear and build. In your scenario, you should’ve killed Detale already if not dealt a lot of damage such that you will still get the drop regardless of how many others arrive.

The MVP drop should be secured if PK was off in this case. In your scenario, you were lucky that you are stronger than those who tried kill-stealing. But if there was more of them and they were more experienced they still have a great chance to get the drop. Sure you can do your warp trick if PK was on but my point was that PK off would be better securing MVP drop for those who find it first.

With PK on, you just need strong killers and you can monopolize the drop. I’m not talking about just the MVP guilds but also the elite geared players in the server who have geared friends and can kill off the hunters. So basically, the ones getting the drop are those that have connections and keep getting richer.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

This is quite contradictory to your opinion earlier. Up there you were saying that it would be difficult if we change PK setting since MVP guilds can monopolize it and now you are suggesting that it is meant to be difficult so we should keep PK setting as it is?

__________________________________________________________________________________________

As Sartorius mentioned, the map would be flooded with farmers since many people would want to farm here but they can’t because of PK. Not saying this map is the best way to make zeny but not everyone finds stone of sages or fire armors to be better. If implemented, this would be an extra option for farmers. It’s true EoF is a bigger issue here but for many newbies, abyss is their work place. Newbies who have complete legendary gears can kill Detale if it wasn’t for other players. They should be given better chance and not only to fully geared ones. I bet they get killed all the time perhaps before they could even warp if they come close to Detale

__________________________________________________________________________________________

Is it really fine as it is? If you look at the market, EoF price keeps increasing because it’s being hoarded. You can see so many people always buying Frigg yet you also see often people selling EoF/Frigg overpriced because they are the same people who have it. This suggestion may or may not fix the problem but I don’t think the situation couldn’t be better

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Yes this is what I was saying :)

Except that I don’t see how that is a bad thing. This would allow for newbies to have extra spot to farm on since they wouldn’t need any gear to kill the mobs and they wouldn’t have to worry about other players. There would be less loots per person but there would be greater distribution and more newbies would benefit.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

Again I don’t fully support the original suggestion, and I have another idea but I don’t know if it’s even possible so please don’t kill me on this. Revised suggestion would be to turn off PK during weekdays so newbies can farm all they want without getting killed. For the MVP aspect, lower the EoF drop rate to about 7% on weekdays and increase the drop rate on weekends to 15% or so, thus EoF drops per week remains about the same. Just a suggestion :)

most new ones tend to be mislead in farming zeny and focuses on abyss_03. Extra spot for a few gain would be worthless, if u weigh the gain and benefit from that extra spot, might as well go farm other things. and there would be less spot i believe as i said due to players storming the map.

On your new suggestion. i dont see the changes are necessary, simply because it just end up to a "tweaked original suggestion" type. though i do respect and see your point.

though lowering drop % would only cause more price hike as i can predict on the market even if u raise it to 15% during weekend which will eventually be a farming season for eof, thus will make it harder to get by different individuals. and as ray said, together with hoarding, changes would just stir up the market of eof which is at a ridiculous state already.

[warrior911]

With PK on or off, no matter how you sugar coat it, the ones with the numbers and gears will take it. However, with PK off, it is pretty easy to camp the said place. If you think turning PK off would lower EOF's price then think again. The issue was hoarding of EOF, that is completely irrelevant to the PK status of the map. The ones who are hoarding will still hoard even if pk is on or off. That's the point im trying to say.

I forgot one point in my example, the guy who found detale was actually not on mvp gears. He called us since he can't kill it himself(ironically, he was there trying to farm because he thought it was the best place to get zeny, and he got lucky that he saw detale). It would take him more than 2 mins as he was not a champ(he is a sniper). That's why it took more than 2 minutes. With that said, if pk was off and our guy using sniper found detale first, 2 mins go by and an mvp guild with champs see detale, who do you think will get the drop? PK off is not a surefire way to secure the mvp, it actually encourages to killsteal with champ easily.

Friggs quest has always been difficult. There are no quest guides for it to start off. The biggest issue with frigg is the EOF because it drops from an MVP. It is not intended originally that EOF was sold at a higher price, it was not when almost no one talks about friggs quest requirements(i bought my EOF around 100 tokens in fact). When the information was out, people hoarded it. the hoarding situation worsened when MVP guilds hoarded items needed for quests. It has been the case for years, even on other items. The issue is not the PK, it's the hoarding. changing the pk status of the map, I daresay it will be the same or it will become worse.

I would rather have Detale on an mvp room with lower drops if the issue is EOF. Or the easier one is to make pk off in abyss but put Detale in another map where zeny farming is non existent.

Yes, it is true that geared players will always have the advantage of getting EoF but PK status is not completely irrelevant. It would be easier to camp the place but that is not a disadvantage for semi-geared players since they can camp there too. This would actually encourage semi-geared players to hunt since they cannot be targeted by the MVP guilds.

A semi-geared sniper can actually kill Detale in less than a minute with the proper cards. If he can’t afford that then, as you said it yourself, he shouldn’t even be hunting Detale. The original suggestion for turning PK off was meant for semi-geared players or solo hunters who are actually looking for Detale. But they have a slim chance because they not only have to compete warping at the right spot at the right time before others arrive but they also have to survive against the bullies.

If hoarding EoF has been the case for years, maybe because the system hasn’t changed? Maybe if we changed things a bit, then it would disrupt their system for hoarding. How can you be so certain just comparing it to TG situation? His drop is much less valuable to Detale which is actually worth camping and hoarding for. Even if the analogy was true for back then, we can’t say the same for how it would be now that the market is changing and with more people coming in the server. There are many factors involved in this hoarding issue and we cannot prevent that but I think with PK off, those who hoard can dominate less.

Frigg quest is difficult only for the newbies. It’s already challenging enough to find the NPCs and get all the other quest items so at this point the experienced players are already at the advantage. Then most newbies would realize that you need a rare drop to finish the quest, so what ends up happening is likely they just buy the EoF or the Frigg shield itself and not do the quest. I’m not saying we should spoon feed the newbies, and I also acknowledge the effort of what the old players had to go through to finish the quest, but I’m saying we should encourage newbies to actually try the quest and experience the whole thing by themselves.

I think it would be better if Detale is out on the wild because if we put him in the same summoning room as Kiel, TGK and the rest then it would defeat the purpose of Frigg quest. Also Detale has the best MVP drop in the server that you can hunt as a group. There would probably be very few MVP guilds left if we put Detale in the summoning room. If we put Detale in the case like Thanatos, then the hoarding would just make it worse.

most new ones tend to be mislead in farming zeny and focuses on abyss_03. Extra spot for a few gain would be worthless, if u weigh the gain and benefit from that extra spot, might as well go farm other things. and there would be less spot i believe as i said due to players storming the map.

On your new suggestion. i dont see the changes are necessary, simply because it just end up to a "tweaked original suggestion" type. though i do respect and see your point.

though lowering drop % would only cause more price hike as i can predict on the market even if u raise it to 15% during weekend which will eventually be a farming season for eof, thus will make it harder to get by different individuals. and as ray said, together with hoarding, changes would just stir up the market of eof which is at a ridiculous state already.

What I was trying to say is newbies can farm where they do right now but if PK was turned off in abyss then they could there as well since they don’t need any gear to kill the mobs. But if it is as we predicted that there would be too many people, then they could still return where they use to farm. And if this is the case that there are too many people then that means many are benefitting. If you make the argument that the value of zeny decreases for them to be viable, then again they could just farm where they use to farm be it seeds or quest items.

The only downside I see in this is it would take out the fun of being in PK server, because honestly some people just like to kill farmers. As others have said this is a PK server so it shouldn’t be completely changed just like that. This is why I made the revised suggestion and it’s based on the premise that turning PK off favors the newbies (as I try to discuss above there with rayray ^_^).

Basically encourages the ungeared to come so they can farm without getting killed and they are also given better chance to actually fight Detale but at a lower drop rate. Though the strong and the geared deserve to get more of the EoF drop which is why I suggested increased % on weekends to spice things up and more competition. The numbers I gave were just an example but it could be modified by someone who knows more about drop statistics so that there would be the same EoF drops/week as there are now thus the loot doesn’t depreciate. I don’t think the price will hike because if the MVP guilds do overprice, then it would just encourage the newbies to hunt the EoF themselves even more.

[Rayray]

Yes, it is true that geared players will always have the advantage of getting EoF but PK status is not completely irrelevant. It would be easier to camp the place but that is not a disadvantage for semi-geared players since they can camp there too. This would actually encourage semi-geared players to hunt since they cannot be targeted by the MVP guilds.

A semi-geared sniper can actually kill Detale in less than a minute with the proper cards. If he can’t afford that then, as you said it yourself, he shouldn’t even be hunting Detale. The original suggestion for turning PK off was meant for semi-geared players or solo hunters who are actually looking for Detale. But they have a slim chance because they not only have to compete warping at the right spot at the right time before others arrive but they also have to survive against the bullies.

If hoarding EoF has been the case for years, maybe because the system hasn’t changed? Maybe if we changed things a bit, then it would disrupt their system for hoarding. How can you be so certain just comparing it to TG situation? His drop is much less valuable to Detale which is actually worth camping and hoarding for. Even if the analogy was true for back then, we can’t say the same for how it would be now that the market is changing and with more people coming in the server. There are many factors involved in this hoarding issue and we cannot prevent that but I think with PK off, those who hoard can dominate less.

I think it would be better if Detale is out on the wild because if we put him in the same summoning room as Kiel, TGK and the rest then it would defeat the purpose of Frigg quest. Also Detale has the best MVP drop in the server that you can hunt as a group. There would probably be very few MVP guilds left if we put Detale in the summoning room. If we put Detale in the case like Thanatos, then the hoarding would just make it worse.

These statements had me confused on what you want really. I will ask questions on them per paragraph.

1. I do not know how it would encourage semi-geared players to camp with fully geared ones. Fact of the matter is, if they find the MVP at the same time, the fully geared ones will outdamage the semi-geared ones. It will be the same result, just that we turned off PK. Which is why I see the suggestion as no help at all and will not change things.

2. If a semi geared sniper(as you said) can kill Detale in less than a minute, how the hell does PK on affect him? If it would approximately take 30 seconds to damage the MVP to half hp, that is enough time for him to warp and that is less time for the other people to Killsteal his MVP. I really do not get your point on that paragraph. You confirm that it is easy to kill Detale in under a minute, so I see no reason to actually turn off PK.

3. Hoarding will still be an issue with pk on or off in abyss_03. Changing it will not lead to less hoarding. I see no connection between the two at all. Pk on or off, people who hunt detale will still hunt detale.

4. I'm really confused on which side you are on. On that paragraph, you do not want my suggestion in the other post which in my opinion benefits all parties. Let me explain it.

My suggestion on the last post was 3 parts.

a. Put Detale on the MVP room but with lower drop rate than normal.

b. Make abyss_03 pk off

c. Put Detale on a different map from abyss_03(map is still PK on).

First part benefits the solo hunters and newbies that, according to you, are having a hard time on the quest.

Second part benefits the zeny hunters on the abyss_03 map.

Third part benefits the ones who wants to have competition and/or benefits MVP guilds/parties.

To put it simply, I do not agree on putting pk off on an MVP that has a decent drop because it actually encourages camping + kill stealing from the fully geared ones. But for a compromise to the solo players, I would agree on putting it in an MVP room but at a lower drop rate due to the ease of it(and the MVP room doubles as a zeny sink, which in turn makes the zeny have more value). Then preserving the natural state of the MVP is the third part, being it free for all and having a higher drop rate than the one in the MVP room. That way, everybody is happy, hoarding will then subside because there are now two ways of actually getting EOF, and the zeny farming at abyss_03 will be better, and there will be no extra people in it because the map is only for zeny farming.

[warrior911]

These statements had me confused on what you want really. I will ask questions on them per paragraph.

1. I do not know how it would encourage semi-geared players to camp with fully geared ones. Fact of the matter is, if they find the MVP at the same time, the fully geared ones will outdamage the semi-geared ones. It will be the same result, just that we turned off PK. Which is why I see the suggestion as no help at all and will not change things.

2. If a semi geared sniper(as you said) can kill Detale in less than a minute, how the hell does PK on affect him? If it would approximately take 30 seconds to damage the MVP to half hp, that is enough time for him to warp and that is less time for the other people to Killsteal his MVP. I really do not get your point on that paragraph. You confirm that it is easy to kill Detale in under a minute, so I see no reason to actually turn off PK.

3. Hoarding will still be an issue with pk on or off in abyss_03. Changing it will not lead to less hoarding. I see no connection between the two at all. Pk on or off, people who hunt detale will still hunt detale.

4. I'm really confused on which side you are on. On that paragraph, you do not want my suggestion in the other post which in my opinion benefits all parties. Let me explain it.

My suggestion on the last post was 3 parts.

a. Put Detale on the MVP room but with lower drop rate than normal.

b. Make abyss_03 pk off

c. Put Detale on a different map from abyss_03(map is still PK on).

First part benefits the solo hunters and newbies that, according to you, are having a hard time on the quest.

Second part benefits the zeny hunters on the abyss_03 map.

Third part benefits the ones who wants to have competition and/or benefits MVP guilds/parties.

To put it simply, I do not agree on putting pk off on an MVP that has a decent drop because it actually encourages camping + kill stealing from the fully geared ones. But for a compromise to the solo players, I would agree on putting it in an MVP room but at a lower drop rate due to the ease of it(and the MVP room doubles as a zeny sink, which in turn makes the zeny have more value). Then preserving the natural state of the MVP is the third part, being it free for all and having a higher drop rate than the one in the MVP room. That way, everybody is happy, hoarding will then subside because there are now two ways of actually getting EOF, and the zeny farming at abyss_03 will be better, and there will be no extra people in it because the map is only for zeny farming.

Semi-geared ones would be more worried getting killed than getting outdamaged. Getting outdamaged is one thing; getting killed by bullies is another. (I have more explanations on this below in response to your other questions.)

You make the assumption that the newbies have about a minute to kill Detale when typically there are MVP guilds out there roaming few minutes before Detale would spawn. Your friend was lucky to have 2 mins before anyone else arrived. Usually the time is much shorter than a minute before someone else arrives. You can kill Detale in seconds only with MVP gears but you can’t just do that with PK on.

For example, a champ wearing gloom cards and hollowring cards should be able to kill Detale in just a couple of Asura but I can’t be confident doing that because an Asura from any champ would kill me. Or if there was a thana user, I would die from FAS before I can even see there’s a sniper around.

If PK was off, I wouldn’t have to worry about any of these things. PK plays a huge factor of who gets the drop, it’s a good assumption that fully geared players have better chance in PK. We both agree that fully geared would outdamage the semi-geared so they’re already favored. If PK was turned off then the fully geared no longer have the advantage of killing the weaker ones, but they can still outdamage the weaker ones which is what I meant by “they would dominant less” in my earlier post.

Disregarding the PK advantage, semi-geared would have a better shot and more solo hunters would come since they won’t need friends to back them up. Thus more distribution and less monopoly/hoarding

If I want EoF for myself and having a hard time getting it, I would’ve just agreed to your suggestion. But I’m not arguing for my personal interest and I’m trying not to choose either extreme sides which is why I might’ve confused you. I was also confused with your suggestion because I thought you meant as either A or B&C and not all of them.

The problem I have with the MVP room is that we cannot control the number of EoFs obtained and this would really drop the price of the loot, even at lower drop rates. If it was put in a timed manner to control the number of times Detale could be summoned, then it would still be hoarded but by different people since it would be based on how good you are getting in as on the case with Thanatos.

I can’t even make arguments with the rest of the suggestion because it relies that Detale on MVP room is implemented. Turning PK off in abyss is good for newbie farmers but putting Detale on a different map doesn’t change the status with EoF (again it’s pointless making argument with the rest of suggestion if I already don’t agree with part A).

Just to summarize: newbies would be favored with PK off because the last thing they would want is to compete against fully geared ones; but then the fully geared ones deserve to get most of the loot. I do not want for newbies to be spoon fed but I also don’t want the fully geared to be hoarding which is why I made the revised suggestion to moderate both sides. I hope that make sense

P.S. Please also read my discussion with Sartorius19 and comment on my revised suggestion as I’m sure you have thoughts on what could be wrong with it and how it could be modified.

[Rayray]

The increased % on certain days will be unfair to those who cannot play on the said days. For me that is worse.

I suggested the MVP room with a Detale with lower drop rates because I find it absurd to have EOF at those prices. I wouldn't really mind if the price of EOF drops by a huge margin, as in the case with the drop of the HP MVP in lhz. Friggs quest would still consume a lot of time even if EOF is readily available so I really would not mind that. I would even agree to just give Detale the same treatment we gave Lost Dragon and the HP MVP(as i remember it) wherein we modified their spawn time to a faster rate. At least with MVP room, everyone had a fair chance. And if everyone can get EOF, no one will hoard it and the ones who will be hunting it are the ones who are actually trying to do the quest.

IMO, there is no harm in getting EOF's prices down. People who sell it might react, but should not encourage overpricing and hoarding or our economy will take a bigger hit if mere quest items costs tons of tokens. Hence, my suggestion stands as I believe it would be the fairest way.

There is also no guarantee that EOF price would go down. Just look at Thanatos card. If I am not mistaken, the original way of summoning him still works, and he has his own room, and yet the price of thana is higher than I remember it a few months ago. The prices of rings stayed roughly the same, even after the update on making one of its quest items drop faster due to faster spawn rate. It just made that drop not be sold at ridiculous prices.

[ThePerfectHit]

You can't join a PK server then ask for PK to be turned off, you knew what you were getting into.

[nate1002]

You can't join a PK server then ask for PK to be turned off, you knew what you were getting into.

of course you can, it just pretty hard and take some effort to implement it properly without making people cry.

[ThePerfectHit]

of course you can, it just pretty hard and take some effort to implement it properly without making people cry.

You seem like the type to go into Auto-Zone and look for a bag of chips, then is upset because they don't have any.

[warrior911]

The increased % on certain days will be unfair to those who cannot play on the said days. For me that is worse.

It’s the same idea with the floating rates we have on the weekend, I don’t see people complain about that and I don’t know why they should in this case. They still can hunt Detale during weekdays anyway

I suggested the MVP room with a Detale with lower drop rates because I find it absurd to have EOF at those prices. I wouldn't really mind if the price of EOF drops by a huge margin, as in the case with the drop of the HP MVP in lhz. Friggs quest would still consume a lot of time even if EOF is readily available so I really would not mind that. I would even agree to just give Detale the same treatment we gave Lost Dragon and the HP MVP(as i remember it) wherein we modified their spawn time to a faster rate. At least with MVP room, everyone had a fair chance. And if everyone can get EOF, no one will hoard it and the ones who will be hunting it are the ones who are actually trying to do the quest.

IMO, there is no harm in getting EOF's prices down. People who sell it might react, but should not encourage overpricing and hoarding or our economy will take a bigger hit if mere quest items costs tons of tokens. Hence, my suggestion stands as I believe it would be the fairest way.

I am with you on this and if it was just me to decide, I would just implement it and prevent the hoarding. But I do not hunt Detale as a way to get rich so I don’t know how hard it is to come up with a system and hoard EoF. So I don’t know how much we should consider the efforts of those who hoard EoF but if we are only finding the solution to prevent hoarding, then I do agree that putting Detale in MVP room would be the best way to do it.

There is also no guarantee that EOF price would go down. Just look at Thanatos card. If I am not mistaken, the original way of summoning him still works, and he has his own room, and yet the price of thana is higher than I remember it a few months ago. The prices of rings stayed roughly the same, even after the update on making one of its quest items drop faster due to faster spawn rate. It just made that drop not be sold at ridiculous prices.

Thanatos is a different case because you can only go on certain times, he can be summoned limited times and only some people can get in so it can be hoarded which explains its hiked up price.

It’s a different case with Kiel, FBH etc. If we put him in that system then Detale could be summoned non-stop even at lower % drop rate there would be a significant increase in EoF drops/week. I can almost guarantee the price for EoF would decrease if the supply increases. As a non-EoF-hoarder, I agree that this isn’t a bad thing because of how the EoF price is steadily increasing. However if we take the EoF hoarders into account, I think my suggestion would be better but otherwise I do support the MVP room idea.

You can't join a PK server then ask for PK to be turned off, you knew what you were getting into.

Not everyone joined fRO because it is a PK server. Maybe they joined fRO because it's awesome. For_fild06 has PK off, and it makes sense because that’s where you would usually level up and the max leveled can bully the lower leveled if PK was on. The same could be argued for abyss_03 but it would be undergeared vs fully geared as opposed to level difference. The case for abyss_03 is not as clear cut as for_fild06 which is why we try to discuss it here in the suggestion thread.

It is true newbies should expect getting killed often in a PK server, but we should help them out a bit so more would stay. The purpose of topics like this is to make changes that would help the server grow. We shouldn’t adhere to tradition just because that’s how it’s been if it’s causing problems. My point is we should be discussing the consequences and make necessary changes that would benefit the majority in the long run.

[Rayray]

It’s a different case with Kiel, FBH etc. If we put him in that system then Detale could be summoned non-stop even at lower % drop rate there would be a significant increase in EoF drops/week. I can almost guarantee the price for EoF would decrease if the supply increases. As a non-EoF-hoarder, I agree that this isn’t a bad thing because of how the EoF price is steadily increasing. However if we take the EoF hoarders into account, I think my suggestion would be better but otherwise I do support the MVP room idea.

Why take the hoarders into account? We should not take them into consideration, that's like saying we agree with what they do that take a huge hit in the economy and make the lives of new guys harder while they keep getting richer just by abusing a system.

[warrior911]

Why take the hoarders into account? We should not take them into consideration, that's like saying we agree with what they do that take a huge hit in the economy and make the lives of new guys harder while they keep getting richer just by abusing a system.

Lmao, we make them sound so evil. But even so I still consider them because they are part of the community, and people who are very committed to fRO since if they were not committed they wouldn't be able to hoard. Nonetheless they do exploit the system and harm newbies but some would argue that it's just part of the game.

Newbies keep the server fresh and growing while the elites make it harder for them to get to the top which makes it more worth it when you get geared up. I think there should be a balance in between and so I made the revised suggestion. The consequence shouldn't be too drastic since it considers both sides. Like mine, your suggestion is also aimed at preventing hoarding EoF but yours leans more against the elites.

What I was arguing was that newbies should be given better chance, but to what extent-- it is not for me to say anymore because I cannot do any reasoning on how valuable the two sides are. I think veterans would have a better intution on this and I'd stop commenting if this would be the discussion to follow.

[Rayray]

I really see no reason to actually take the hoarders side. IMO, it is quite unfair that they manipulate the economy by hoarding. The ones who will argue that it is part of the game are the same ones who are getting a profit by abusing the system right? That's why we aim to change it. We already had hoarders in WoE and we cannot stop them from doing so, so now we allow hoarding of quest items?

But that does not mean that it is for the best. That is why we have the suggestions and a forum, to discuss stuff like this.

Take it from me, gearing now is not actually as hard as it is back in 2007-2009. I actually do not think the veterans have anything to do on making gearing up hard for newbies(they can vote for king sets now, we cannot do that back then).

How did mine lean more against the elites? I suggested an MVP room for Detale and made the real Detale be in a separate map where PK is allowed and made abyss_03 pk off for the farmers. In any case, all sides benefit from it. If the newbies decide to take on the real detale, they can do so, the geared ones can also use the MVP room if they want to. I did not limit them in any way.

I am confused on why my suggestion would not work for you when it caters to all sides. JUST turning PK off on abyss will not solve anything. hoarders will still hoard, while on my suggestion, the ones who want to just hunt for detale for their own quests can do so through the MVP room. Hoarders can still hoard anyway, and those who have no patience will still buy EOF anyway.

You might confuse my suggestion as being biased but trust me, it is not. I do not need EOF anytime soon, nor do i need to hoard quest items just to gain profit.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Rayray

[warrior911]

I really see no reason to actually take the hoarders side. IMO, it is quite unfair that they manipulate the economy by hoarding. The ones who will argue that it is part of the game are the same ones who are getting a profit by abusing the system right? That's why we aim to change it. We already had hoarders in WoE and we cannot stop them from doing so, so now we allow hoarding of quest items?

But that does not mean that it is for the best. That is why we have the suggestions and a forum, to discuss stuff like this.

Take it from me, gearing now is not actually as hard as it is back in 2007-2009. I actually do not think the veterans have anything to do on making gearing up hard for newbies(they can vote for king sets now, we cannot do that back then).

How did mine lean more against the elites? I suggested an MVP room for Detale and made the real Detale be in a separate map where PK is allowed and made abyss_03 pk off for the farmers. In any case, all sides benefit from it. If the newbies decide to take on the real detale, they can do so, the geared ones can also use the MVP room if they want to. I did not limit them in any way.

I am confused on why my suggestion would not work for you when it caters to all sides. JUST turning PK off on abyss will not solve anything. hoarders will still hoard, while on my suggestion, the ones who want to just hunt for detale for their own quests can do so through the MVP room. Hoarders can still hoard anyway, and those who have no patience will still buy EOF anyway.

You might confuse my suggestion as being biased but trust me, it is not. I do not need EOF anytime soon, nor do i need to hoard quest items just to gain profit.

I got lazy in my last post which is why it might’ve gotten confusing. First, I was using the terms “hoarder” and “elites” interchangeably. I did that because “hoader” just sounds so evil but I guess “elite” was not the right word. Anyway, it’s not really that I like hoarders to keep doing what they’re doing but I was saying that there should be moderation because if it got too easy then it wouldn’t be fair for those who worked hard.

What I was saying earlier was that it would be hard to argue how much difficult acquiring EoF should be. We both agree it should be easier than how it is now, but to what extent? I think with the MVP room it would be much easier to do the quest and with my revised suggestion just a bit easier for newbies. I was saying veterans would have a better gut feeling how much easier it should be. (If this still doesn’t make sense, just forget this part/paragraph >_<)

Your suggestion leans against the elites/”hoarders” since it’s their business to raise its price but otherwise it would benefit everyone else. I don’t want to get in the argument again of how PK off would reduce hoarding. I’ll just repeat what I have already said and what the original poster was trying to say. Basically with PK off, the MVP guilds can’t kill the solo hunters or semi geared so there would be more of those to come. Say there are 5 people in MVP guild hunting for detale, and an average of 2-3 solo hunters. This number could increase to 7-10 solo hunters cause they won’t die (Detale is weak and can’t die from players) and they have actually have a chance to kill Detale. That chance might be low per person but adding those up, it would be more likely that a solo hunter would find and kill the MVP before others arrive.

You’d be right to think that the semi-geared ones who hunt might keep it to themselves and try to sell it for the high price it is today. But at least, the price would remain as opposed to the steady increase right now. If PK was off, huge portion of your success is based on being lucky to warp at the right spot when Detale is spawned. If it’s mostly luck then you can’t secure the drop and control the price therefore no monopoly.

If the goal was to completely remove hoarding then the MVP room would definitely do that. But to just reduce hoarding to a lesser extent turning PK off would do it. As to what action should be taken, it should be considered how much easier acquiring EoF should be.

[Rayray]

As I said back in a few posts, there are other quest items that were expensive but their price got so low due to a few changes, one of those is reducing the spawn time to 30 mins. If you like that, maybe we could do the same. Keep in mind that none of the maps that those MVPs are on are even on PK off, and yet newbies can easily get the said drop due to the act that the MVP spawn so fast.

[sartorius19]

Yes, it is true that geared players will always have the advantage of getting EoF but PK status is not completely irrelevant. It would be easier to camp the place but that is not a disadvantage for semi-geared players since they can camp there too. This would actually encourage semi-geared players to hunt since they cannot be targeted by the MVP guilds.

A semi-geared sniper can actually kill Detale in less than a minute with the proper cards. If he can’t afford that then, as you said it yourself, he shouldn’t even be hunting Detale. The original suggestion for turning PK off was meant for semi-geared players or solo hunters who are actually looking for Detale. But they have a slim chance because they not only have to compete warping at the right spot at the right time before others arrive but they also have to survive against the bullies.

If hoarding EoF has been the case for years, maybe because the system hasn’t changed? Maybe if we changed things a bit, then it would disrupt their system for hoarding. How can you be so certain just comparing it to TG situation? His drop is much less valuable to Detale which is actually worth camping and hoarding for. Even if the analogy was true for back then, we can’t say the same for how it would be now that the market is changing and with more people coming in the server. There are many factors involved in this hoarding issue and we cannot prevent that but I think with PK off, those who hoard can dominate less.

Frigg quest is difficult only for the newbies. It’s already challenging enough to find the NPCs and get all the other quest items so at this point the experienced players are already at the advantage. Then most newbies would realize that you need a rare drop to finish the quest, so what ends up happening is likely they just buy the EoF or the Frigg shield itself and not do the quest. I’m not saying we should spoon feed the newbies, and I also acknowledge the effort of what the old players had to go through to finish the quest, but I’m saying we should encourage newbies to actually try the quest and experience the whole thing by themselves.

I think it would be better if Detale is out on the wild because if we put him in the same summoning room as Kiel, TGK and the rest then it would defeat the purpose of Frigg quest. Also Detale has the best MVP drop in the server that you can hunt as a group. There would probably be very few MVP guilds left if we put Detale in the summoning room. If we put Detale in the case like Thanatos, then the hoarding would just make it worse.

What I was trying to say is newbies can farm where they do right now but if PK was turned off in abyss then they could there as well since they don’t need any gear to kill the mobs. (1)But if it is as we predicted that there would be too many people, then they could still return where they use to farm. And if this is the case that there are too many people then that means many are benefitting. If you make the argument that the value of zeny decreases for them to be viable, then again they could just farm where they use to farm be it seeds or quest items.

The only downside I see in this is it would take out the fun of being in PK server, because honestly some people just like to kill farmers. As others have said this is a PK server so it shouldn’t be completely changed just like that. This is why I made the revised suggestion and it’s based on the premise that turning PK off favors the newbies (as I try to discuss above there with rayray ^_^).

Basically encourages the ungeared to come so they can farm without getting killed and they are also given better chance to actually fight Detale but at a lower drop rate. (2)Though the strong and the geared deserve to get more of the EoF drop which is why I suggested increased % on weekends to spice things up and more competition.(3) The numbers I gave were just an example but it could be modified by someone who knows more about drop statistics so that there would be the same EoF drops/week as there are now thus the loot doesn’t depreciate. I don’t think the price will hike because if the MVP guilds do overprice, then it would just encourage the newbies to hunt the EoF themselves even more.

Again the issue is becoming clear. its more of the eof side than the farming side.
Id really rather make the anti KS code/script to work rather than to turn off pk in the whole map.

1- if that is the case turning pk off for the reason of making it more viable in farming would be irrational and invalid.

2- i dont see why geared ones deserves to get more when they already have much than most of the players. I see this reasoning a bit absurd.

3- even if u put statistics up, theres multiple chances of drop % so theres no way you can really find a suitable variable to make it same for every week.
I find the bold statement, ironical. and confusing on what u really wanna say. Your cause and effect all goes around the bush and misleading on all the arguments you are trying and tried to raise.

Edited February 15, 2015 by sartorius19

[warrior911]

Again the issue is becoming clear. its more of the eof side than the farming side.

It is true that EoF plays a bigger concern since it can be hoarded and not the zeny, the OP was trying to say that if PK would be disabled then the ungeared zeny farmers would also benefit. The rest of the discussion was mainly focused on the EoF side because it was assumed that turning PK off was for the good of ungeared farmers and there was nothing else to argue on that.

Id really rather make the anti KS code/script to work rather than to turn off pk in the whole map.

How does the anti KS code/script work? Don’t we already have @noks for that? And it’s not really helping in the case as it is happening right now. I read from your previous post that first hit gets the loot, so does that mean if wizards were casting SG all over and happened to hit Detale even if they don’t even know it was there and it died, they get the loot?

1- if that is the case turning pk off for the reason of making it more viable in farming would be irrational and invalid.

2- i dont see why geared ones deserves to get more when they already have much than most of the players. I see this reasoning a bit absurd.

That is how life is. People who are smarter, stronger or other advantageous trait generally win against their competitors. When I said this, I was referring to the fully geared players deserving to have a higher chance of winning the loot because they will outdamage the less geared ones. I was describing how it is, not how it should be. There’s a difference.

What I’ve been trying to argue is that the fully geared ones should still gain advantage but to a lesser extent. With PK off the fully geared players no longer have the advantage to kill the ungeared players but they will still have the advantage of outdamaging the ungeared ones. We can’t take out the fact that fully geared players will deal greater damage and I think it’s fair that they keep that advantage. They would only be able to use this advantage anyway if the difference in time arrival is just by a few seconds.

3- even if u put statistics up, theres multiple chances of drop % so theres no way you can really find a suitable variable to make it same for every week.

What I mean is that to make the % reasonable. I didn’t say to make it exactly the same EoF drop rates per week but around the number we have right now. Maybe round up the % slightly so the price would go down a bit, as long as it is near to what we have now and doesn’t have to be exact.

I find the bold statement, ironical. and confusing on what u really wanna say. Your cause and effect all goes around the bush and misleading on all the arguments you are trying and tried to raise.

My previous posts might’ve confused you because I am choosing neither extreme sides but rather trying to moderate them. My statements that you’ve highlighted have been discussed further in my other posts following my post that you quoted. I suggest you read those first if you are confused then I won’t be repeating stuff that I already said so if others were to read this it wouldn’t be too redundant.

[sartorius19]

It is true that EoF plays a bigger concern since it can be hoarded and not the zeny, the OP was trying to say that if PK would be disabled then the ungeared zeny farmers would also benefit. The rest of the discussion was mainly focused on the EoF side because it was assumed that turning PK off was for the good of ungeared farmers and there was nothing else to argue on that.

How does the anti KS code/script work? Don’t we already have @noks for that? And it’s not really helping in the case as it is happening right now. I read from your previous post that first hit gets the loot, so does that mean if wizards were casting SG all over and happened to hit Detale even if they don’t even know it was there and it died, they get the loot?

That is how life is. People who are smarter, stronger or other advantageous trait generally win against their competitors. When I said this, I was referring to the fully geared players deserving to have a higher chance of winning the loot because they will outdamage the less geared ones. I was describing how it is, not how it should be. There’s a difference.

What I’ve been trying to argue is that the fully geared ones should still gain advantage but to a lesser extent. With PK off the fully geared players no longer have the advantage to kill the ungeared players but they will still have the advantage of outdamaging the ungeared ones. We can’t take out the fact that fully geared players will deal greater damage and I think it’s fair that they keep that advantage. They would only be able to use this advantage anyway if the difference in time arrival is just by a few seconds.

What I mean is that to make the % reasonable. I didn’t say to make it exactly the same EoF drop rates per week but around the number we have right now. Maybe round up the % slightly so the price would go down a bit, as long as it is near to what we have now and doesn’t have to be exact.

My previous posts might’ve confused you because I am choosing neither extreme sides but rather trying to moderate them. My statements that you’ve highlighted have been discussed further in my other posts following my post that you quoted. I suggest you read those first if you are confused then I won’t be repeating stuff that I already said so if others were to read this it wouldn’t be too redundant.

so far as i know. the @noks is not working as it should be. and a different case on MvPs.

and the case on wiz spamming SG, they deal most damage already on mobs to the extent that the hp is already below 50% which will cancel the rule in "who dealt most damage" gets the drop. and as i said also on that post, i am not entirely sure as sometimes, drops are dropped on the map when someone already hit them before you.

fully geared players can never always constitute as your smart/strong/advantageous type of player.

as i said, it is nearly impossible to find a suitable variable for that, if not, i would like to ask your own suggestions on it.

even if it was discussed as i already read them before u even told me, it always leads to the same end point.