Skills That Would Need Server Side Delays.

[Igopewpew]

I don't need to do a research on you and I certainly wasn't looking for your approval. I said what I said seeing the way things go around the server and you said it yourself that you've been here far longer than I am and that you've made numerous suggestions and so on and then I looked back to what I see actually happens in the server and I just can't help but think about you being stuck in a box.

You've been proven wrong twice, there's indeed no need to argue. All you do is personally attack and have nothing to back up your arguments.

Exactly what I've been saying, stuck in a box. Now just because I stated what other servers do doesn't mean I'm pushing it into this server and even if I was, that doesn't mean that I didn't think about the effects it will bring to this server. No offense but unlike you, I don't need to stay in a server for a long time to see and to know what the server lacks and what improvements can be done. So stop "bashing" me with your inability to comprehend with what I'm talking about.

I'm not going to personallly attack you like you did above, I see no reason to. You've been personally attacking me in nearly every post you made, not the other way around. Examples:

. So don't talk to me about BALANCE as you surely don't know a thing about it. I'm no longer gonna explain myself to you with your closed mind set.

Maybe you've been stuck in this server too long that you've been accustomed to the way things are and don't want change. If every old player in this server is the same as you, Now I won't wonder why some stuff are unbalanced till now.

OH righty, now I know why we don't understand each other. When I said that it shouldn't be implemented in the first place. I was talking about the skill in woe on a high rate server. You're obviously bias against the tarot getting nerfed. So I rest my case.

You should take Forum as an example. he argues, yes but he brings in arguments as to why he thinks it should change. I do the same but I give my opinion on it and reason why I think it shouldn't. Comparing that to your posts it's just blatently "You don't know shit, I know it all. This should not work in woe period." and that's coming from a relatively new player, doesn't make any sense honestly.

that doesn't mean that I didn't think about the effects it will bring to this server.

Please do PM me and tell how disabling tarot in WoE will positively effect the server. O.o i'm very curious to see what amazing benefits this would give us. You did exactly what you said you didn't do: you said "It should be this way cause other servers do it" that's basically what your argument came down to. Well... ForsakenRO is not like other servers. So what works there doesn't automatically work here.

We won't be adding hard delays onto any skills, we will just make the client and server delays match. Meaning third party programs will offer no advantage.

Sounds promising. Has this kind of delay matching been done before to other skills? If so, which ? :O Is this what was done to spiral pierce before? Edited July 19, 2014 by Igopewpew

[Genesis]

You've been proven wrong twice, there's indeed no need to argue. All you do is personally attack and have nothing to back up your arguments.

I'm not going to personallly attack you like you did above, I see no reason to. You've been personally attacking me in nearly every post you made, not the other way around. Examples:

You should take Forum as an example. he argues, yes but he brings in arguments as to why he thinks it should change. I do the same but I give my opinion on it and reason why I think it shouldn't. Comparing that to your posts it's just blatently "You don't know shit, I know it all. This should not work in woe period." and that's coming from a relatively new player, doesn't make any sense honestly.

Please do PM me and tell how disabling tarot in WoE will positively effect the server. O.o i'm very curious to see what amazing benefits this would give us. You did exactly what you said you didn't do: you said "It should be this way cause other servers do it" that's basically what your argument came down to. Well... ForsakenRO is not like other servers. So what works there doesn't automatically work here.

Sounds promising. Has this kind of delay matching been done before to other skills? If so, which ? :O Is this what was done to spiral pierce before?

Yupe, its exactly what we did with Spiral Pierce. It takes more time to do, but it creates a 1:1 client/server skill cap.

[Forum~]

We won't be adding hard delays onto any skills, we will just make the client and server delays match. Meaning third party programs will offer no advantage.

This is perfectly fine with me.

[ThePerfectHit]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jmh6WNq9SEg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHAoUtogHxc

[Forum~]

At around 18 seconds of that first video link, the WS is literally CTing as fast as the Sniper is 195 aspd shooting him, LOL.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Forum~

[ThePerfectHit]

At around 18 seconds of that first video link, the WS is literally CTing as fast as the Sniper is 195 aspd shooting him, LOL.

"WTFast and Gaming Gear"

[Rayray]

We won't be adding hard delays onto any skills, we will just make the client and server delays match. Meaning third party programs will offer no advantage.

Yupe, its exactly what we did with Spiral Pierce. It takes more time to do, but it creates a 1:1 client/server skill cap.

This type of delay was what I was saying a few posts ago. I do not really know WHY IN THE HELL some people will think that I want hard delays on skills when I specifically said that I won't support it in the first post. This is asking the community WHAT SKILLS should this kind of delay be applied to first so that we get rid of the cheaters faster, as Genesis himself said so right now that it takes time to do it.

• is their need for me to be so? who cares? im an LK now... former gunslingers of this servers have already switched to other classes a long long time ago... i hope you knew?
• yes, very well said and i give you a -1 vote for it.
• how sure are you that it will solve the BN problems and at the same time wont affect the players?
• if so, then how much delay are you suggesting to convince people to agree and to take it in effect? :th_hmm:

1. Then we have no problem there.

2. Genesis already said what exactly my suggestion would want. Thank you for giving it a -1.

3. Again, Genesis said it, he will match server side and client side delay so that using 3rd party programs will be pointless and just a waste of pc resources

4. Look at Spiral Pierce. You won't feel it now but what I wanted done to other skills have been done to it already.

Okay not useless, just less used because they are out classed by other classes in every aspect. Still sounds pretty useless to me.

I have no idea what you're talking about. I was talking about the present woe. Yes, even a noob knows how to use those skills but that doesn't mean they know how to fully maximize the use of those skills to the point of IT being OP and mind you, I never said those two skills alone dictates the outcome of a woe.

Game rules are more of a guideline. To follow it or not is ones decision. You may be able to ban 1 or 2 players today, tomorrow there will be 10 more. Next thing you know, the server only has 50 or less players including your afk vendors. Who are you gonna play with then now? Be open to facts and not illusions. I'm betting your "whole community" conisists of 10% of the server players.

1. No, some people just don't know/don't have gears to use star glads and other characters in woe while sniper and sinx work with just knight and legendary gears.

2. Again, are you saying that at this point no one knows how to use Battle Chant and Tarot correctly?

3. Game rules are the law, not guidelines. If they are guidelines, people won't get banned. With your statement here, you actually prefer to have botters,phpers,and 3rd party software users in the game then to have a decent gaming environment? And who am I gonna play with after that? the decent players of course, which i know a lot are in the server. Why do you think that a lot of players are actually cheating then? when there are only a handful of them compared to the decent ones?

[ThePerfectHit]

This type of delay was what I was saying a few posts ago. I do not really know WHY IN THE HELL some people will think that I want hard delays on skills when I specifically said that I won't support it in the first post. This is asking the community WHAT SKILLS should this kind of delay be applied to first so that we get rid of the cheaters faster, as Genesis himself said so right now that it takes time to do it.

1. Then we have no problem there.

2. Genesis already said what exactly my suggestion would want. Thank you for giving it a -1.

3. Again, Genesis said it, he will match server side and client side delay so that using 3rd party programs will be pointless and just a waste of pc resources

4. Look at Spiral Pierce. You won't feel it now but what I wanted done to other skills have been done to it already.

Obviously CT (Sorry If it was already mentioned didn't bother to read former post on this thread.)

[zencis]

Quote

You've been proven wrong twice, there's indeed no need to argue. All you do is personally attack and have nothing to back up your arguments.I don't need to do a research on you and I certainly wasn't looking for your approval. I said what I said seeing the way things go around the server and you said it yourself that you've been here far longer than I am and that you've made numerous suggestions and so on and then I looked back to what I see actually happens in the server and I just can't help but think about you being stuck in a box.

Quote

I'm not going to personallly attack you like you did above, I see no reason to. You've been personally attacking me in nearly every post you made, not the other way around. Examples:

Exactly what I've been saying, stuck in a box. Now just because I stated what other servers do doesn't mean I'm pushing it into this server and even if I was, that doesn't mean that I didn't think about the effects it will bring to this server. No offense but unlike you, I don't need to stay in a server for a long time to see and to know what the server lacks and what improvements can be done. So stop "bashing" me with your inability to comprehend with what I'm talking about.

Quote

. So don't talk to me about BALANCE as you surely don't know a thing about it. I'm no longer gonna explain myself to you with your closed mind set.

Quote

Maybe you've been stuck in this server too long that you've been accustomed to the way things are and don't want change. If every old player in this server is the same as you, Now I won't wonder why some stuff are unbalanced till now.

Quote

OH righty, now I know why we don't understand each other. When I said that it shouldn't be implemented in the first place. I was talking about the skill in woe on a high rate server. You're obviously bias against the tarot getting nerfed. So I rest my case.

You should take Forum as an example. he argues, yes but he brings in arguments as to why he thinks it should change. I do the same but I give my opinion on it and reason why I think it shouldn't. Comparing that to your posts it's just blatently "You don't know shit, I know it all. This should not work in woe period." and that's coming from a relatively new player, doesn't make any sense honestly.

Quote

that doesn't mean that I didn't think about the effects it will bring to this server.

Please do PM me and tell how disabling tarot in WoE will positively effect the server. O.o i'm very curious to see what amazing benefits this would give us. You did exactly what you said you didn't do: you said "It should be this way cause other servers do it" that's basically what your argument came down to. Well... ForsakenRO is not like other servers. So what works there doesn't automatically work here.

I just died loling how you can't understand my explanation. Please do look in the mirror before you say i'm personally attacking you. I don't even know why I even bother explaining myself to someone whom I assume is a pro but needs a very detailed explanation to every post.

For tarot, first off, THIS SKILL SHOULDN'T EVEN BE USEABLE IN WOE. About the spam rate in pvp, for me is ok and I've dealt with alot of them tarot spammers even in other servers and I know it's quite annoying but that's all they are. There's always gtb anyways but gtb should be able to negate whatever skill tarot throws cept for the equip breaking skills.

As to my understanding, you've been eagerly shooting down my posts due to the first bold line i said and I've already explained it if you were really reading or understanding what I've been saying or maybe you've been reacting like that because of the 2nd bold line coz if not, I don't even know why you're so irritated with what I said. You keep telling me to make my own thread and suggest it. Brother, if it was a suggestion, I would've already have my own thread. Please do read my above post. It's clearly more of a comment than a suggestion. If I had known I need to iterate an explanation, I would've done it in one post.

We won't be adding hard delays onto any skills, we will just make the client and server delays match. Meaning third party programs will offer no advantage.

Judging from experience, this will make people near the server obviously spam better than the ones who aren't but it's the same thing anyway if no one was using BNs and macros so this is what exactly should be done oh and @Igopewpew, omg! it's kinda like the exact same solution another server I played did, i wonder why...

Edited July 20, 2014 by zencis

[Forum~]

Recorded this at today's American WoE in Gondul (19 July). That's not legitimate BB spam.

[ThePerfectHit]

Recorded this at today's American WoE in Gondul (19 July). That's not legitimate BB spam.

ign: Rant

*side note: Accused him of BN in pvp room once and he denied it but stopped spamming BB and logged off never to be seen again, until WoE since GM's don't watch people during WoE*

[pranchew]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Is there a certain program that blocks all 3rd party program?

Hmmmm, here's the thing. I really appreciate those who wanted the game to be improved. But there is one thing i noticed, the focus is mainly on cheaters??? Aren't the Gms there to monitor also the players? of course not all the time. But that could be possible. Another thing, If putting a delay on Spams, then how about those players on other countries which have high pings? So i can smell a high probability rate to kill only a poring and not a player. Wew. Good thing it was announced that macro are not allowed, even though not knowing what are those. wew. I thought this game is for all, Not to waste our time with those cheaters. If there's an anomaly, then report.

Just Give guidelines on how to record stuffs as posted by some on previous posts so as to report immediately those that were taken and accused to be cheaters, then the Gms could review it. wew.

[Veracity]

Judging from experience, this will make people near the server obviously spam better than the ones who aren't but it's the same thing anyway if no one was using BNs and macros so this is what exactly should be done oh and @Igopewpew, omg! it's kinda like the exact same solution another server I played did, i wonder why...

Don't worry, it's not going to impact anyone negatively, whether they live near the server or not. We're working on carefully testing out each of the problematic skills, and are going to test it with multiple people from different locations in Europe and Asia before releasing it to the server. People will be able to spam the same as they do now (legitly), but those who use 3rd party programs will no longer benefit from doing so and will be disconnected from the server.

"WTFast and Gaming Gear"

Thank you for that constructive post. This is why we've announced today that macros (including ones that are part of gaming gear) are no longer permitted.

[ThePerfectHit]

Don't worry, it's not going to impact anyone negatively, whether they live near the server or not. We're working on carefully testing out each of the problematic skills, and are going to test it with multiple people from different locations in Europe and Asia before releasing it to the server. People will be able to spam the same as they do now (legitly), but those who use 3rd party programs will no longer benefit from doing so and will be disconnected from the server.

Thank you for that constructive post. This is why we've announced today that macros (including ones that are part of gaming gear) are no longer permitted.

Posted that as a joke since they've all been using that excuse to slip away from every ticket made against them. But now since that is no longer a valid excuse I will make it my job to fight in for field and keep fraps on and hopefully you guys can do your part and start banning the cheaters.

[Forum~]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Is there a certain program that blocks all 3rd party program?

There are services available but Genesis/Veracity themselves have found that they are unreliable and thus, not worth investing in.

Hmmmm, here's the thing. I really appreciate those who wanted the game to be improved. But there is one thing i noticed, the focus is mainly on cheaters???

I think this is the first thread that I've read that has tried to tackle cheaters seriously. So I wouldn't say "focus" because it is a recent development in which players are getting fed up with cheaters roaming around freely.

Aren't the Gms there to monitor also the players? of course not all the time. But that could be possible. Another thing, If putting a delay on Spams, then how about those players on other countries which have high pings? So i can smell a high probability rate to kill only a poring and not a player. Wew.

Isn't that why ping reducing software like Wtfast is still legal?

I thought this game is for all, Not to waste our time with those cheaters. If there's an anomaly, then report.

How about we do both? We spend time to fix the root of the problem (as suggested by Genesis' solution) and also report those we suspect may be cheating. Edited July 20, 2014 by Forum~

[Veracity]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Is there a certain program that blocks all 3rd party program?

Hmmmm, here's the thing. I really appreciate those who wanted the game to be improved. But there is one thing i noticed, the focus is mainly on cheaters??? Aren't the Gms there to monitor also the players? of course not all the time. But that could be possible. Another thing, If putting a delay on Spams, then how about those players on other countries which have high pings? So i can smell a high probability rate to kill only a poring and not a player. Wew. Good thing it was announced that macro are not allowed, even though not knowing what are those. wew. I thought this game is for all, Not to waste our time with those cheaters. If there's an anomaly, then report.

Just Give guidelines on how to record stuffs as posted by some on previous posts so as to report immediately those that were taken and accused to be cheaters, then the Gms could review it. wew.

We're not putting a delay, we're merely limiting the amount of skill spam that the server will accept (to one that is the maximum legitimate spamming speed), and people using 3rd party programs will not be able to spam faster than that and will get disconnected from the server. We are taking our time and doing it very carefully so it will not effect people who are playing honestly, only those who are cheating. Making it so cheating isn't possible in the first place is much better for everyone and the server rather than going on huge banning sprees.

I am confused by the rest of your post. Do you not understand what macros are? As for reporting cheaters, players are encouraged to do so, but it's difficult to prove on our end whether or not someone is using 3rd party programs or macro keyboards/gaming gear. That's why we have decided to not allow either.

[zencis]

Don't worry, it's not going to impact anyone negatively, whether they live near the server or not. We're working on carefully testing out each of the problematic skills, and are going to test it with multiple people from different locations in Europe and Asia before releasing it to the server. People will be able to spam the same as they do now (legitly), but those who use 3rd party programs will no longer benefit from doing so and will be disconnected from the server.

That would be great! I hope you guys work this out. Btw, since we're at it, will the other skills that was nerfed be returned to its usual spam rate and while you're doing the tests, could you please record every skill spam and have it post here if it won't be too much of a bother ofc, so even newbies can have a basis to know if a person is using a 3pp spammer in case those 3pp still works after?

[pranchew]

. Do you not understand what macros are?

No, not even Wtfast. You said that WTFAST is not prohibited, so will there be a guideline on how to use it ?? mhmm...

[Forum~]

No, not even Wtfast. You said that WTFAST is not prohibited, so will there be a guideline on how to use it ?? mhmm...

https://www.wtfast.com/

A macro is a series of instructions a computer is commanded to do. More thorough definition here: http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/M/macro.html

Newer MMOs often have macros built into the UI.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Forum~

[Genesis]

No, not even Wtfast. You said that WTFAST is not prohibited, so will there be a guideline on how to use it ?? mhmm...

WTFast is just a service that allows you to connect from their network in order to reduce your ping by taking a more expensive route.

Normally you connect like this:

Your computer -> ISP Network -> ISP handles routing to our network (they pick the cheapest way possible, to cut costs)

With WTFast it works like this:

Your computer -> ISP Network (limited) -> Regional WTFast node -> WTFast handles routing to our server (taking a more expensive route, which is faster)

I hope that clears it up. :)

[pranchew]

WOW! So there's such a thing. Players would always mention using that Wtfast, not knowing what it is. Nice. Thnx Guys :D

THANK YOU FOR THE ENLIGHTENMENT!

[Prav]

ign: Rant

*side note: Accused him of BN in pvp room once and he denied it but stopped spamming BB and logged off never to be seen again, until WoE since GM's don't watch people during WoE*H

Hey dude that side note is obviously a Lie every ende members can say its a lie . Rant only Woes he never gets into pvp / forfild . And i can see u crying everywhere in the forum about getting killed maybe u r so weak even the novices kill u.About that video u posted if u have so much doubt u can connect to his pc using teamviewer and see how he breaks u r balls

[Rayray]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Is there a certain program that blocks all 3rd party program?

Hmmmm, here's the thing. I really appreciate those who wanted the game to be improved. But there is one thing i noticed, the focus is mainly on cheaters??? Aren't the Gms there to monitor also the players? of course not all the time. But that could be possible. Another thing, If putting a delay on Spams, then how about those players on other countries which have high pings? So i can smell a high probability rate to kill only a poring and not a player. Wew. Good thing it was announced that macro are not allowed, even though not knowing what are those. wew. I thought this game is for all, Not to waste our time with those cheaters. If there's an anomaly, then report.

Just Give guidelines on how to record stuffs as posted by some on previous posts so as to report immediately those that were taken and accused to be cheaters, then the Gms could review it. wew.

Vera explained it well. So I am not gonna bother with the specifics on how it will not affect players with high ping. Just think of it this way: Has anybody actually complained with the spam rate of Spiral Pierce being slow? None. So, as Genesis said in a previous post that most of the skills will get what they did to spiral pierce, I don't think it will have a negative effect on people who play legit.

[Forum~]

Hey dude that side note is obviously a Lie every ende members can say its a lie . Rant only Woes he never gets into pvp / forfild . And i can see u crying everywhere in the forum about getting killed maybe u r so weak even the novices kill u.About that video u posted if u have so much doubt u can connect to his pc using teamviewer and see how he breaks u r balls

Dude, are you like, 12 or something?

As far as I'm concerned, the video provides ample proof that his BB spam rate is abnormally fast. I can easily upload what a normal one looks like if you need a comparison to see my point.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Forum~

[Rayray]

Hey dude that side note is obviously a Lie every ende members can say its a lie . Rant only Woes he never gets into pvp / forfild . And i can see u crying everywhere in the forum about getting killed maybe u r so weak even the novices kill u.About that video u posted if u have so much doubt u can connect to his pc using teamviewer and see how he breaks u r balls

Not saying anything against this statement cuz i never see the guy so I won't comment against him. But the one I put in bold is something you should never let a stranger do. Hell, if you let me do that, I could fry up the pc within minutes. I just laughed a bit due to that statement.