ChainBreak Posted February 23, 2014 Report Posted February 23, 2014 imo this is really unnecessary and gives an unfair advantage in long battles when fcp starts to run out. Snipers will still have maximum damage while having the ability to strip. So removing that effect from the weapon seems plausible to me. 1
Zombee Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 They do put out some massive damage.. I feel they could do without it for sure, but GL convincing the rest of the community.
Rayray Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 If I am not mistaken, the strip only works at close range. And even if you remove it from the weapon, it is so easy to just have an extra bow/dagger with strip cards in it(which what is what we used before).
qperteplex Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 The downside I see from Ray's trick is that if they use a dagger they wont be able to do significant damage or no damage at all and if they use an ordinary bow, you remove the buffs that the valk or legendary weapon has. Yes they get their strip but assuming that the attacker has fcp on, I see that the sniper would run out of seeds before fcp expires. Not unless the sniper goes full redux and could exceed the average 200 seeds they usually carry
Rayray Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 The downside I see from Ray's trick is that if they use a dagger they wont be able to do significant damage or no damage at all and if they use an ordinary bow, you remove the buffs that the valk or legendary weapon has. Yes they get their strip but assuming that the attacker has fcp on, I see that the sniper would run out of seeds before fcp expires. Not unless the sniper goes full redux and could exceed the average 200 seeds they usually carry I am not gonna try to strip if I knew fcp is still up since there is no reason to do that. And once that runs out, due to high dex it is easy to strip most people.
Sensation Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 This change would only be really beneficial if you're a long range class yourself fighting Snipers, and still strip is only a two tile casting skill. In all other occasions, snipers will swap to a dagger to strip the enemy, just as Ray said.
plok123 Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 Well, talk about disarm on gs, and full strip on stalker.. :)
jameslamela Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 Well, talk about disarm on gs, and full strip on stalker.. :) stalker and GS has its inborn strip skill... you cant take it away from them plok. sniper dont have these.. and pls stay on topic. dont involve other classes as a base of reasoning. well... i dont really mind if the strip skill is there or it will be remove, since only few sniper use normal atk and strip chances on range is much lower than a melee atk.
plok123 Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 I'm still talking about strip though ;)
Rayray Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 stalker and GS has its inborn strip skill... you cant take it away from them plok. sniper dont have these.. and pls stay on topic. dont involve other classes as a base of reasoning. well... i dont really mind if the strip skill is there or it will be remove, since only few sniper use normal atk and strip chances on range is much lower than a melee atk. Actually, long ranged strip never works, as Sensation said, it has to be at a 2-cell distance, which is nearly melee range. Snipers can only strip if they are that close, else it does not work. Which is why removing it from the bow will not exactly help much, since snipers can really go dagger(like in the old days) just for stripping
Forum~ Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) Should be removed as OP suggested. While FCP is readily available in most cases, it is a significant advantage in long battles. If removed, sure, most snipers will resort to carrying an additional dagger for strip, but at least they won't be hitting full damage as they proceed to strip you. Additionally, snipers would have to actually melee you (get up close), which is a reasonable setback to get an opportunity to strip you, a state in which you become absolutely vulnerable. Also, this suggestion should include all other weapons that have the strip skill, which includes clown, gypsy, and stalker(?). Edited February 24, 2014 by Forum~
plok123 Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 Should be removed as OP suggested. While FCP is readily available in most cases, it is a significant advantage in long battles. If removed, sure, most snipers will resort to carrying an additional dagger for strip, but at least they won't be hitting full damage as they proceed to strip you. Additionally, snipers would have to actually melee you (get up close), which is a reasonable setback to get an opportunity to strip you, a state in which you become absolutely vulnerable. Also, this suggestion should include all other weapons that have the strip skill, which includes clown, gypsy, and stalker(?). the strip only works in a 2 cell distance.. so if you're saying that they have to get close and to melee when using a strip dagger, what's the point of removing the strip on sb? there's actually no difference.. The strip dagger has a higher percentage of stripping compared to when melee attacking a sniper.. I would be scared of a sniper that has a strip dagger than one that doesn't when I don't have fcp.. And snipers aren't vulnerable when they switch to strip dagger, for example, you're a sinx with no fcp, the sniper switched to strip dagger and stripped you, then back to bow, you think you'd last long? you'd cloak and run away or maybe die..
ChainBreak Posted February 24, 2014 Author Report Posted February 24, 2014 The point is that snipers have to choose to either go for the dmg or go to the enemy for the strip. Most classes will just use pneuma card and cloak to avoid the fas or ds and if they switch to strip dagger ranged classes can avoid them and spam their skills and melee classes can go for maximum dmg with the chance of killing, but not receiving the maximum dmg.
Forum~ Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) the strip only works in a 2 cell distance.. so if you're saying that they have to get close and to melee when using a strip dagger, what's the point of removing the strip on sb? there's actually no difference.. The strip dagger has a higher percentage of stripping compared to when melee attacking a sniper.. I would be scared of a sniper that has a strip dagger than one that doesn't when I don't have fcp.. And snipers aren't vulnerable when they switch to strip dagger, for example, you're a sinx with no fcp, the sniper switched to strip dagger and stripped you, then back to bow, you think you'd last long? you'd cloak and run away or maybe die.. It's a matter of convenience for the sniper and opportunity for the one getting attacked. Can't really expand on my rebuttal until I get home since typing options are limited on my phone. Will edit this response. Edited February 24, 2014 by Forum~
Sensation Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 The point is that snipers have to choose to either go for the dmg or go to the enemy for the strip. Most classes will just use pneuma card and cloak to avoid the fas or ds and if they switch to strip dagger ranged classes can avoid them and spam their skills and melee classes can go for maximum dmg with the chance of killing, but not receiving the maximum dmg. To strip, snipers would have to get close anyway. In the meantime, they could keep the bow on and once close switch to dagger. The difference will be very minimal, but if more people favour this choice, you can except the Sniper crowd to want compensation for this 'loss' of stats/utility on their weapon.
Rayray Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 A high-dex sniper that got close with stripping cards on dagger would strip you in less than 5 seconds if you are not a dex class. an auto attacking sniper using bow is vulnerable to a lot of things like blade stop or activate your pneuma acc. The other reason why I see no point in changing it is actually for the snipers. Changing the bow will give them a horrible disadvantage. You see, Sniper SB has increase weight limit. Now, if we remove the strip on the bow, they will be forced to change to a dagger to strip. Sadly, we do not have a valk dagger of snipers, which means they will use normal daggers that does not have increase weight limit, meaning they will go overweight the moment they use the dagger. I think that is too much of a disadvantage considering the thing that you wanted to change on sniper has a very easy counter(FCP). I will only agree to the suggestion if we can give snipers an off-hand weapon with increase weight limit. Otherwise they will be at a disadvantage, much like when clowns switch to sb before.
plok123 Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 A high-dex sniper that got close with stripping cards on dagger would strip you in less than 5 seconds if you are not a dex class. an auto attacking sniper using bow is vulnerable to a lot of things like blade stop or activate your pneuma acc. The other reason why I see no point in changing it is actually for the snipers. Changing the bow will give them a horrible disadvantage. You see, Sniper SB has increase weight limit. Now, if we remove the strip on the bow, they will be forced to change to a dagger to strip. Sadly, we do not have a valk dagger of snipers, which means they will use normal daggers that does not have increase weight limit, meaning they will go overweight the moment they use the dagger. I think that is too much of a disadvantage considering the thing that you wanted to change on sniper has a very easy counter(FCP). I will only agree to the suggestion if we can give snipers an off-hand weapon with increase weight limit. Otherwise they will be at a disadvantage, much like when clowns switch to sb before. +1 to this
qperteplex Posted March 18, 2014 Report Posted March 18, 2014 As someone who is constantly using a melee class, I can relate to this since my common weakness would be stripped. My resort would either get FCP or if he b*tches about me running, I would just be in the area cloaking. I didnt run I'm still there but I wouldnt fight back unless I recover from the strip at least for my shield and dag. Anyway I would agree to remove the strip but as the others have already indicated it would give them a huge disadvange. Given that as I know about snipers, they can carry 200 - 300 seeds. Though they can only carry that much compared to str based classes but they can dish out heavy damage to compensate for their low weight capacity. I like the suggestion of giving them the dagger that has the strip ability and added same weight bonus as the sniper SB would have to compensate for it. Another viable options I could see is to reduce the strip duration which can just reduce the scripting time that would cost the GMs to create an l.dag and donate dag for the sniper class. Maybe around 10 secs. which would give them sufficient time to restock if needed and would not give them a long shooting practice time as the stripped job would just be wasting seeds within that duration to run and dodge while trying to recover.
Sensation Posted March 18, 2014 Report Posted March 18, 2014 Sadly the strip would be bound to the formula in the source and that isn't an option. As it would possibly ruin the strip stalkers are performing and it originally is their skill. However, if it could be tweaked for just level 1 strip, this wouldn't impact stalkers, as they perform it at a higher level. Snipers aren't reliant on a strip passive on their bow. Back in the days, using a dagger was even easier, as the strip range is melee range anyway and swapping to dagger meant also having a shield. Now Snipers can have the bow & shield at the same time. Strip can still be used by using strip cards in your bow (still same range as melee) or go dagger (which is melee). The end result would be the same, but the means to get there would be different. One argument might be that they won't be able to deal such high damage while stripping and that's the only viable argument for this. If you want to prevent stripping, get FCP.
qperteplex Posted March 18, 2014 Report Posted March 18, 2014 I thought the strip the sniper weapons possessed were customized and not reliant of another job class' skill. Well as you already implied that modifying the strip wouldnt be an option so obviously my suggestion got shot down. pew pew.
ChainBreak Posted March 18, 2014 Author Report Posted March 18, 2014 they won't be able to deal such high damage while stripping This is what I want. They should have to choose either the strip chance OR the dmg, but not both at the same time.
Sensation Posted March 18, 2014 Report Posted March 18, 2014 That seems a fair idea to me, however, this would require a dagger that also has the increased weight limit. People wouldn't want to donate for one, so we'd need to create a Legendary Sniper Dagger or something and have stats suggested for it, you know the drill by now ;p
ChainBreak Posted March 19, 2014 Author Report Posted March 19, 2014 Well I dont have a clue on the stats since I don't play sniper so we would need input from people that do. Or do it like the GS changes and apply the nerf first then buff at another point.
Rayray Posted March 19, 2014 Report Posted March 19, 2014 I can give a rough sketch of the stats. Legendary Sniper Dagger +30 dex +10 agi Enable use of increase weight limit level 10 *put the strip skill of the bow in here* 4 slots Is that too OP or too weak?
Sensation Posted March 19, 2014 Report Posted March 19, 2014 Wouldn't see why it would be OP for a melee weapon. It won't even do much damage while using melee =P
