Bring Normal Gs Spam

[Monaco96]

-- edited since the post is a flame post and I removed it-- Shino

James pro ^__^

Edited September 26, 2013 by Shino
Removed post related to nellysky's flaming

[nellysky]

THIS IS NOT ABOUT GS BEING OP WITH 3 KIELS WHICH HAS BEEN STATED 9001 TIMES ALREADY THANK YOU FOR READING SO THOROUGHLY

This is about how despe spam makes people lagg at woe. That is the reason why the spam got reduced.

Vera already said that they want to buff GS in other ways to make up for the reduced spamrate.

But apparently GS don't even want to think of getting asura dmg despe or FAS dmg rapids. They just want their spam.

IF despi on woe is thier prob of making lag on WOE..

why did they just nerf DESpi only.. only on WOE event..

what about other skill is that necessary to be nerf also?

what about on. PVP, MVP,LMS,RAid. and other events and activities. is Despi also lags on this particular activities?

and can u guys imaging how GS looses much on this?

and i dont play GS. my concern is only for pips who plays GS as thier main..

maybe this nerfing is justifyable if they let or provide GS with a wep that let GS use thier other nice skill and form another GS build. wich is not necesary of using 3kiel.

for me they not only want thier spam men.. thay need it.. :D

Edited September 26, 2013 by nellysky

[nellysky]

please explain why is my woe experience fine?

Very Good connection and a High quality computer..

ur lucky men :D

Enough. I am handing out warnings to those who are not contributing but are just flaming one another, and I am also hiding the replies that doesn't help at all.. Do not make this thread a flaming thread, otherwise your goal of reducing the delay for gunslingers will be for nothing.

@topic What Shadi said here probably is the reason kiel effect for gunslingers is lowered. Even if you had effects turned off, if there are multiple gunslingers spamming desperado around the emp, you will lag, no matter your hardware is. This is not felt as much by the ones doing the skill(Gunslingers).

Genesis already said that this is not the final change..

Question=sir it is posible that you our GM's can only nerf despi only on woe event.. even with the use of 3 kiels.. so that they can still use thier rapid shower effectivly as usual?

[Shadi]

IF despi on woe is thier prob of making lag on WOE..

why did they just nerf DESpi only.. only on WOE event..

what about other skill is that necessary to be nerf also?

what about on. PVP, MVP,LMS,RAid. and other events and activities. is Despi also lags on this particular activities?

and can u guys imaging how GS looses much on this?

and i dont play GS. my concern is only for pips who plays GS as thier main..

maybe this nerfing is justifyable if they let or provide GS with a wep that let GS use thier other nice skill and form another GS build. wich is not necesary of using 3kiel.

It is possible to enable/disable certain skills on woe maps. However I'm not sure if there are mapflags to increase the delay of a certain skill at all.

There's no need at the moment to nerf any other skill. Desperado was the only skill with 0 delay with this many hits that was being (ab)used in WoE which caused the client to lag.

Yes this change hurts gunslingers, in my opinion their spam is still decent but either way this change is not final. There will be conpensations in the lack of spam and in my personal opinion the gunslinger players should be happy and grateful that they get compensation for the loss of spam. Clowns/gypsies lost their spam completely and did not get compensated for it. I don't see them complaining as much on the forums though.

Question=sir it is posible that you our GM's can only nerf despi only on woe event.. even with the use of 3 kiels.. so that they can still use thier rapid shower effectivly as usual?

The only way this would be possible is by a massive server-side delay to the desperado skill. I'm not sure about any side-effects of this though. I'm pretty sure Genesis considered this though but opted for the different approach.

[slacterinc]

humm..im nt plying gs, so i didnt know how it feel being delay like this..bt my suggestion is,

the delay only come on woe right??..why Gm cnt make its only spamm 75% only on WOE time, bt not on other time like pvp on fild,BR,GvG and other thing will turn to be on normal spam

like before 90% is it better??..bcoz the only problm here is lag when it is woe..bt not on other time right?...then,make the spam 75% only on woe..if it cn be implement ..its my suggestion btw..xD

[Rayray]

^ I think shadi answered your concern on his post above yours.

[qperteplex]

there are also some GS who use a program "i think" that makes them have godly spam. i remember months ago Novas and another GS dueling at fild then when they start to despe one another it started lagging like hell, kind of a slow motion scene. Novas warped off and said he would be reporting the other GS to Gen. dont recall what happened after. this also happened (5/2/13 to be exact coz i got a SS of that moment) in TG spot again 2 GS dueling the lag happened again once they despe each other off. and one more happened weeks ago during euro woe friday, wasnt lagging at first in that spot (it was an entry point to the castle) then when this GS came and started shooting off his despe that slow motion thing happened again. my movement was delayed like 3-5 seconds and i was just sitting in that spot.

GMs should also consider that these programs that classes couldve abuse but as the examples ive given is usually used by GS that may contribute to the lag. cant tell if anyone here experienced what i experienced from what i said above. all i can say is GMs should also look into those progs that those players abuse and not just limit w/ the kiels thing. my two cents :D

Edited September 27, 2013 by qperteplex

[Sensation]

there are also some GS who use a program "i think" that makes them have godly spam. i remember months ago Novas and another GS dueling at fild then when they start to despe one another it started lagging like hell, kind of a slow motion scene. Novas warped off and said he would be reporting the other GS to Gen. dont recall what happened after. this also happened (5/2/13 to be exact coz i got a SS of that moment) in TG spot again 2 GS dueling the lag happened again once they despe each other off. and one more happened weeks ago during euro woe friday, wasnt lagging at first in that spot (it was an entry point to the castle) then when this GS came and started shooting off his despe that slow motion thing happened again. my movement was delayed like 3-5 seconds and i was just sitting in that spot.

GMs should also consider that these programs that classes couldve abuse but as the examples ive given is usually used by GS that may contribute to the lag. cant tell if anyone here experienced what i experienced from what i said above. all i can say is GMs should also look into those progs that those players abuse and not just limit w/ the kiels thing. my two cents :D

The programs you are referring to are packet modifiers and sadly they are hard to be excluded. It is forbidden to use them, but sadly can't be easily confirmed if they are used.

To set them up is relatively easy and thus they are used by people who don't take legal game play serious. I could think of one way to make it occur less, but it'll be bypassed in no-time.

Thanks for your thoughts about this though and the staff is already aware of this for years, but sadly not much can be done at that specific time. Reports and investigations are the only way to cure this.

As for the main topic of delaying Desperado spam: the suggestion somewhat is declined already. Try bringing a new constructive suggestion about what you would like to see changed and how it would 'balance' or make up for the current loss. Don't bring up the delay reduction (a paladin's Gospel might help in WoE to reduce this slightly), as I am sure they will factor in all these variables into 'fixing' the Gunslinger class.

[Monaco96]

This topic is getting hot .. cool friends .. now we need the ice ... to cool back this topic .. xD

[Rayray]

What people need to understand is that this is just the first on the series of changes. It isn't final. Once people get that, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[jameslamela]

no need to flame out guys... 1week left till the final change will be made. so let us stay tuned for the new update to come . and hope it's for the better now ...

[Koko]

Okay, so I read through all the posts and I must say, most of you are a bunch of babies. It was said multiple times that this isn't permanent and that something will be done to make up for the loss of spam. I also saw a few good suggestions, the first being a Ghost Bullet; (Good increase in damage, yet easily countered.) That suggestion all depends on what the final fix decision is though. Second, I saw something in there about the fact that Desp is not the only skill effected and that Rapid Shower is damn near useless now too. That's only half way true though. My GS has always been my favorite class and probably always will be. I know how to play it very well, and even with the nerf, I still kill fairly easily. I do still agree though that since Rapid Shower is not the skill that is causing the server delay in WoE that it should not have the same delay. My suggestion on this is if there is a way to make the Kiels effect only Desp with the 75% aftercast delay and leave Rapid Shower with the 90% it should fix that problem, but then the first suggestion of Ghost Bullets would make Rapid Shower OP which means only one of the two suggestions would be able to be implemented. Another fix for that problem would be to increase the damage of Desp by about 15-25% through Vali's Destroyer and L.Gun. If anyone see's any flaws in this, please read it over again to make sure you don't misunderstand what i'm saying and please, provide some feedback. :)

[markadik21]

1week to go

[Monaco96]

What people need to understand is that this is just the first on the series of changes. It isn't final. Once people get that, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Yeah true Rayyyyyy...+1

[dalehohn512]

Alright, so my friend and I made gunslingers to see how bad the cast delay is, and it's not bad at all. We had no problem killing other people with it as it is, and are now using them to farm and kill thanatos. I personally don't see what the problem is, if the delay was really that much of a different from before then it was way, way too easy to kill people.

[Rayray]

Alright, so my friend and I made gunslingers to see how bad the cast delay is, and it's not bad at all. We had no problem killing other people with it as it is, and are now using them to farm and kill thanatos. I personally don't see what the problem is, if the delay was really that much of a different from before then it was way, way too easy to kill people.

Kinda what I feel too. I tested it and the spam was definitely slower than before, but not too much that you can't kill people. Desperado still does huge damage and the fact that it hits randomly from 3-6 hits throws people off their seed rhythm. The spam then was so fast that it becomes so easy to just go in, spam despe and kill people. An increase in damage here and there(on rapid and despe) and probably introduce new weapons for gunslingers(shotguns, gatling) will definitely solve this issue.

I personally can and still kill people with the delay set now but I have a suggestion. Make the guns have the delay reduction. I mean, the third kiel is practically wasted on gunslingers anyway, let them be like WS that can 2 kiels and put the rest of the delay reductions on their weapons. That way, they still have slower spam than before, but gain a little advantage of having an extra slot that is not used for kiels.

[waterintoblood]

lol multiple people telling me "so much lag" in woe and no gs is there to cause it :) howbout you decrease our spam in woe, and leave our spam back to 0 in PVP, i dont mind woeing with a non gs character

[dexterz91]

lol..................

i think u have some problem , if u feel the spam was not slow.

[ChainBreak]

Last woe I played it was way less lagg compared to the woes I played before the gs nerf.

[Rayray]

The spam is a little bit slow compared to before, that is a fact. But it is also retarded to have 0 delay on a skill that can hit 14k each without thana(21k+ on thana), and hits up to 10 times, 3-6x on average. It was the easiest way to kill then, just cloak, go near people, and spam your despe and seeds, you will net about a few people then.

My ping ranges from 180-200. that can be a factor, if your ping is higher than mine, for sure you will feel a bit more sluggish.

There was no other skill that has the spam of desperado and deals as much damage as it is. Spiral pierce ranges from 4k-7k and hits 5x, acid bomb hits maximum of 3k on gr armor. The only other skill that is near the spam rate and damage of desperado was a prof's bolt, however, you can counter that with maya or gtb.

I disagree on giving back the 0 delay of desperado, but the 75% cap for kiels should be raised in my opinion, if 3 kiels give 90% before, I can settle for 80% + damage increase.

[jameslamela]

Alright, so my friend and I made gunslingers to see how bad the cast delay is, and it's not bad at all. We had no problem killing other people with it as it is, and are now using them to farm and kill thanatos. I personally don't see what the problem is, if the delay was really that much of a different from before then it was way, way too easy to kill people.

perhaps you are using 2 kiels+ 2silver kiels.. that wont gave you problem on spam rate. but the only problem is, GS can no longer use ship capt hat coz the 3rd kiel is a waste, also if GS wanna have good spam rate he will not be able to use f.soldier which is really essential for pvp and woe to make GS to be less vulnerable.

Last woe I played it was way less lagg compared to the woes I played before the gs nerf.

less lag??? or less deaths for you coz theres no more/less GS on woe??? for me the lag rate was same as before... so i have to switch off my effects to lessen the lag. "note, im using clown"

lol multiple people telling me "so much lag" in woe and no gs is there to cause it :) howbout you decrease our spam in woe, and leave our spam back to 0 in PVP, i dont mind woeing with a non gs character

hahahaha! +1 nerfing GS doesnt solve the problem literally...

Make the guns have the delay reduction. I mean, the third kiel is practically wasted on gunslingers anyway, let them be like WS that can 2 kiels and put the rest of the delay reductions on their weapons. That way, they still have slower spam than before, but gain a little advantage of having an extra slot that is not used for kiels.

+1 i would like to agree with this also... 2kiel+f.sold+maya p. and still have good spam rate "not necessarily supa fast" will be really helpful.

I disagree on giving back the 0 delay of desperado, but the 75% cap for kiels should be raised in my opinion, if 3 kiels give 90% before, I can settle for 80% + damage increase.

GS has 0.1 cast delay before, not 0... i can settle 85% cast delay reduction with 3 kiels... +5% additional damage increase, so if valis gives 20% additional damage to rapid shower and 15% to desperado, it will become 25% for rapid and 20% for despe... <3 pls make this happen...

[Rayray]

fine, 0.1 delay on a skill that does ridiculous damage, and no, 85% seems too high, considering 90% is the original effect. 80% should be the highest, but the 75% at the moment is decent when I tested it.

[markadik21]

gm pls do the fixing at gs ..

[Rayray]

It was nerfed for a reason, it isn't broken, so there is nothing to fix.

[markadik21]

who many kiel i need to use?