Taekwon (New Rings And Weapon)

[Rayray]

210k seems high actually that I was surprised that this became an issue of nerf.

Are you guys telling me that when I was gone, the damage you guys consider to be decent is 100k+ for a character?

To put in perspective, I deal 2k each hit MAXIMUM on acid demonstration, and 5-8k bolts that hits 5 each cast. Does this mean that the biochemist class needs a tweak in damage too? I hope you see my point.

We haven't updated much regarding the classes' hp, so I am confused on why the hell most character's buffs makes their damage well over 100k.

[Yatogami]

Sorry for the late response. All of the posts above say one thing only and yes I agree to some. The testings I do together with some GMs may or may not always be perfect (I'm repeating myself again) and we are happy that there are brave souls out there to test these new items (version 1) we released and now we see / observe / re-test these until we come to a point where we can call it "balanced".

If we talk about politics, of course all of those people who say that these "nerf" is bad are all in the same group / guild. Same as what happened for Gunslinger. Okay so moving on...

I find Taekwon too OP as of the moment since it does very high damage, with fast cast, and a x3 HP increase if you're in top 10 rank. We appreciate your hard work to get to the top 5 but like what we stated in the previous patch notes, these new items are subject to change. We didn't force you to spend 24/7 to be on top rank. I also don't like the mindset when people think that we do this for money and then nerf it when somebody gets too strong, etc.

My objective as GM is to improve the gaming experience. I remember back in 2014 when nobody plays Gunslingers and Taekwons. I'm glad and will still do my best to improve these jobs until everyone is happy. ;)

On a side note/Off Topic, Dont forget SL :D Im still reluctant to get an SL Guardian Ring and see if its viable or not. I already know 1 person who has it and I might just borrow his ring instead just to give you the feedback you need. If it gets another weapon just for the guardian ring then I can also help with that.

All these New Item included Guardian rings and Weapons were done by you. You should test it probably before launch. So probably you will say there is ton of things to test so you release first. Ok Fine you got your point.

Regarding the GS guardian ring, 650% on Tracking, reduce 50% casting time. This is very good idea tracking with high damage but the casting time from 3 second(original effect) reduced to 1.5 second. This is sound very good and fair High damage not spammable but you forget the card can reduce casting time? When this skill with no casting time you can spam like a machine gun and doesn't need kiel at all. People are complaining it because they doesn't know you made a MISTAKE at this point. But now the problem solve because you already figure it out the trick. Thanks God.

And for the GS Guardian Ring, its been "Balanced" but upon hearing the news of a 2 handed rifle on its way, I think its best to return how it was initially. The only changes made would be 500% instead of 650% and the removal of the "Fixed" cast time of 3 seconds even on 2 berzebub cards. cause based on iRO, on 2 berzebub cards tracking cast time would be around 2 seconds which I personally think is going to be alright since rifle will be 2 handed. and also might I add to make valis unable to use tracking if its possible.

Now for TKs I think what BeforeMidnight is trying to point out, ever since you released the new rings and weapon for taekwon, anyone who waited for a long time for the buff would be excited to go rankings and go the extra mile to reach top 10 in a short amount of time just to fully test the new set, and once they do reach the top 10, only to find it get "Balanced" plus the fact that there was no notice of said change log for the reduction of attack and HP for TK. Which is why a few of the top 10s are raging about this xD

[Rayray]

^ I Think that is one of the issue. There should have been a notice before the change so people can brace themselves.

This situation made me think about ALL the other characters' damage. Most of them NEVER, and I mean NEVER, reach 100k+ damage without a thanatos card. My hybrid biochem deals 50k+- 70k thanatos mammonite and that is considered lucky. Why are we updating only a few classes' damage?

One more thing I noticed, some(if not all) of the updates on the classes' are for a specific character build. One update, like the first iteration of the GS, is something that is too much. So much that that update alone(the tracking with no cooldown and massive damage) manages to crap on the handgun build and even the full buster build. If that update stayed on, will anyone actually use the handgun and full buster build? The answer is no, because those two builds haven't got anything against the tracking build.

That is what I am trying to say. Why are some of the updates completely craps on the other builds available? Even more so that it craps on the other classes as well?

I consider myself a decent player. Me and a few others like Airi managed to use biochemist even if it was one of the most lacking classes then. A few suggestions here and there(you can research it in the forums) and we made it a good enough character. But I have never encountered a single soul saying the biochemist class is OP in general because the buffs we received(a bit of increase in hp, a bit of increase in acid demo damage on the bless ring(10% increase, compare that to your 500% and 100%)) cannot be considered a serious buff, more of "balancing".

Sounds off topic? might be, but my point here is this: We cannot keep on increasing classes' damage and call it balancing. That's not how it works.

[Moogle]

Now for TKs I think what BeforeMidnight is trying to point out, ever since you released the new rings and weapon for taekwon, anyone who waited for a long time for the buff would be excited to go rankings and go the extra mile to reach top 10 in a short amount of time just to fully test the new set, and once they do reach the top 10, only to find it get "Balanced" plus the fact that there was no notice of said change log for the reduction of attack and HP for TK. Which is why a few of the top 10s are raging about this xD

Ares already stated why he doesn't make a post with every little change on the rings, and as for people complaining about the TK dmg being changed I cant help but take it that people just want there class to be "OP" you can't honestly tell me the damage before is fair at all. I've seen paladins die instantly before they can even react and they have between 750-800khp, imagine how say the less tankier classes feel who have between 250-350k.

As for the ranker list nobody forced him to get #1 on the list, there's no difference from rank #1 to #10 and certainly nobody told him to be almost over 100 points above #2.

Edited August 2, 2016 by Moogle

[AlexTuban]

I as well thought the TK class was very strong, being a ranker does take some time yes, but not impossible. Being able to spam infinite kicks doing 210k (as you stated) seems pretty high dmg to me I don't know any other class that can output that kind of damage infinitely.

Now before the kicks were doing

Heel Drop 800%

Roundhouse kick 500%

Counter kick 430%

Tornado kick 1000% (on cursed)

this damage was also being stacked with

Fighting Chant (Skill ID# 424, iRO Name: Kihop)

It increases your ATK (2*SkillLV)% per party member on the same map.

For example, if there are 10 party members, and you have LV 5 in this skill, your ATK is increased by 100%.

party is capped at 32 or 36 people per party if I remember correctly so they are getting another extra 320 or 360% in big events like WoE and GvG making the damage even higher and impossible to tank

Actually guys there is no point keep arguing. Moggie pointed out his point and this is the issue why TK has OP. SOLO TK can't deal decent of damage now. What to do now is just fix this. My Suggestion 1% per party member, or capped at 3 player. Or totally remove it.

[AlexTuban]

Earlier this WOE there were 2 TKs that were owning, both were from PE. 1 was running upto eeyo castle along with his guildmates. He easily dropped everyone he passed. Dropped 4 including myself. So if the WOE today was prior to updating TK then something is up. I'm positive that the only skill used on me by his guild mate was sight then he dropped me after. Gonna have to check this once I go online again and see the opinions of others. I'm not sure of their ranking as well so I'll need to double check if those hits were legit.

With regards to testing. I agree with others about the Beta server testing and I see the GMs point. As a software tester myself bugs keep coming out eventually. It can come out during the testing phase, UAT(User acceptance testing) or even on production(Live environment wherein people/customers/clients are already using it). Just my 2 cents, give it some time. That's what builds were made for.

Please make sure your enemy aren't in x2. Please makesure yourself aren't in GTB. If your enemy in x2 and yourself in gtb. He can kill you easily.

[abysmalknight]

L0L

I did the decrease on some bonus for Taekwon since there are taekwons (with all the passive buffs, foods, etc) can one hit even an 800k HP Paladin.

There is no such thing to 1 hit KO Paladin unless the TK managed to do all the combos which are 4-5 buttons and even 6 counting u switch RSX to prevent push back, and even so the pally would have the time to use seeds or berries. We can easily counter them by "changing gears only", OL cards and just don't wear GR(u can actually see what element they use by memorizing the symbol on their head), and not counting root from a champ.

Unlike GS Tracking, honestly I was the one who donated for the capes and the weapons right away when I realised it had OP damage and eventually nerfed, and i did manage to get the PvP ladder for a few weeks easily. But I'm ok with that and also I was one of the group who agree to nerf GS TRACKING for the sake of PvP, WoE, GvG, and BR. Its only spamming 1 button, and there was no way to counter Massive tracking damage + Spammable, some says holy armor L0L (we can easily enchant weapon with curse water & 2gloom) and 2NOX card "another L0L" (u can simply swap thana weapon).

So, that is the reason why people not complaining about tk, just try to be smart.

PS actually its not the TK OP, but its the person. There are only 3-4 pro Taekwons who know how to play the class properly.

Cheers

[abysmalknight]

I've seen paladins die instantly before they can even react and they have between 750-800khp, imagine how say the less tankier classes feel who have between 250-350k.

I'm sure the Palladin is wearing gr, skoll+ray, gtb just because the guide says it has to wear that by default or the tk is on X2. 1 skoll isn't enough to counter thana card for a palladin due to their high vit or we can easily switch usakoring shield.

Probably u guys should consider to nerf the party buff only, not the tk cause when there are 30 party members in the same map, the additional damage could be up to + 300%.

Edited August 2, 2016 by abysmalknight

[Nas]

^ one hit? seriously?. With triple HP ranker, TK just have 400k. He could dead by reflect(reflect shield), even so he have a pally devoing all the time,that 800k should kill both pally and. Are you sure that dead pally is not devoing anyone? With damage that he tanked,and a TK damage, a asura. Yes he can dead by 1hit if that so. But your point is 1hit to pally 800k by Tk. That nonsense.

Ares already stated why he doesn't make a post with every little change on the rings, and as for people complaining about the TK dmg being changed I cant help but take it that people just want there class to be "OP" you can't honestly tell me the damage before is fair at all. I've seen paladins die instantly before they can even react and they have between 750-800khp, imagine how say the less tankier classes feel who have between 250-350k.

As for the ranker list nobody forced him to get #1 on the list, there's no difference from rank #1 to #10 and certainly nobody told him to be almost over 100 points above #2.

Waw. Yes you're right about nobody force him to go ranker, and thats the difference between people that struggle to be good in their build/job and people that just can say "noone force you". it just about HARD WORK.

Its still counterable,i fight em with 2ol and desperado,and yeah i can kill em(solo).

[Nas]

I'm sure the Palladin is wearing gr, skoll+ray, gtb just because the guide says it has to wear that by default or the tk is on X2. 1 skoll isn't enough to counter thana card for a palladin due to their high vit or we can easily switch usakoring shield.

Probably u guys should consider to nerf the party buff only, not the tk cause when there are 30 party members in the same map, the additional damage could be up to + 300%.

+1 on this. Just dont make em too useless in 1v1. Edited August 2, 2016 by anasputra09

[BeforeMidnight]

Oh my frickin god. You guys are unbelievable.

"nobody forced you to rank" "no one forced you to be in top 1"

How ignorant can you get, GM team? Are you even hearing what you're saying? You're passing the blame on us? Is this how you're supposed to treat your players? Ask them if they've been forced to do something and make it sound like "no one forced you to do that, so it's just fine if we change things mid-air just because we can".

You're not even gonna consider and appreciate the fact that 'we did this on our own and no one forced us to fucking do this kind of thing because it feels awesome and because the TK rankings exist so we might as well go for it', but instead you'd say 'nobody forced you to rank'?

Yes we did this on our free will, whenever we can do it. And I myself conquered the top spot and still going because those spots are all open for another ranker to claim. You can get dethroned any time and if you're in the Top 10 which is the point of having and losing the bonuses at the same time, you have no other choice but to find and secure a safe spot you think you can handle. We all want that bonus. Solely because that ranking system exists. It's awesome to be a part of it.

You people in the GM team can not use this fact to belittle us, or reason at us because you didn't create the TK system. It exists in all Ragnarok servers! What's the point of it existing if no one's gonna be in this list? To try and achieve that one of a kind bonus?

We're not even supposed to be talking about that thing because the issue here is the damage TKs dealt before the "update" (do I sound more civilized now because I didn't call it a nerf anymore?). Sure, they can easily deal that much damage, but as some of you already know, it is because we can adjust our weapon element to 7 different types. Earth, Wind, Water, Fire, Ghost, Shadow and Holy.

Use the right element and poof, you're in for a ride. But unfortunately, elements enchanted by Mild Wind can be dispelled. Once we're not on any Mild Wind element enchantment, neutralized, we barely even hurt. Classes who can dispel us and players who wear Randgris cards on weapons are our nightmares. Randgris can easily dispel us, because we're melee hitters, even if the enemy doesn't hit us physically, in which case we would have the honors to do so, we'd activate any active cards such as the dispel from Randgris card given the enemy has any sort of reflect equipment.

To prevent that from happening we can turn to our trusty GTB shield, which in turn leaves us even more vulnerable to attacks dealt to us. It's either we survive, but not deal damage, or deal damage, but not survive when we take the hits ourselves.

TKs were never all just advantages. Not all just bonuses and benefits from some kind of special ranking system. Again, I'm fine with the HP decrease (IT'S VERY MUCH REASONABLE NOW SO PLEASE THERE'S NO NEED TO TWEAK IT ANYMORE).

The damage, to be fair with you, okay fine, lower it a bit down BUT FOR GOODNESS' SAKE, NOT LIKE ITS CURRENT STATE. Like I said, Crit build Sinx deal way better damage than TKs right now. No one in here even mentioned that CritSinX are pretty much the same with TKs because they're also melee and they hit for a damage high enough that you'd also be gone in less than a second and reflect is also something that endangers their lives. But no one complained because people are used to it. All servers probably have it because it's a common class. Then we laid our eyes on the TKs who are quite new on the scene and are basically almost the same in terms of ways of killing opponents, but because we're not used to seeing them do it, we judge them.

I just want this to be over with. The longer this goes, the more unhealthy arguments come out of it.

P.S.

Please don't ever use our spots in the Top 10 again to reason with us. Nobody ever should. Give us a fucking break. That seriously annoyed me. Excuse my language but I believe that any member of the GM team or Dev team should at least be sympathizing with the players first and foremost while explaining their side intelligently at the same time and not agitate them even more just to make us see it on their point of view. If you want us to respect you and your opinions, respect and appreciate your players opinions too.

P.P.S.

There should also be no excuse next time changes like this happen without any notices here in the forums. It might create drama, yes and blah blah blah but at least you guys told us and not left us blank and have no idea what in the world is happening because no one is confirming these updates. Especially these class specific updates regardless whether they're in beta or godknowswhat stage. How hard can it be to type in a few words and post it in the forums? You can observe something, get it coded and release it in the live game but you can't even type in a short memo on the forums about this kind of change? This is probably the only game I know who has done that so far where they release a fix/balancing/update first before the patch notes itself. In this case there isn't even gonna be a memo about it as soon as possible if my friends haven't made me aware of the thing done to TKs and me disappointingly asking about it in here.

Edited August 2, 2016 by BeforeMidnight

[symphony37]

Ares already stated why he doesn't make a post with every little change on the rings, and as for people complaining about the TK dmg being changed I cant help but take it that people just want there class to be "OP" you can't honestly tell me the damage before is fair at all. I've seen paladins die instantly before they can even react and they have between 750-800khp, imagine how say the less tankier classes feel who have between 250-350k.

As for the ranker list nobody forced him to get #1 on the list, there's no difference from rank #1 to #10 and certainly nobody told him to be almost over 100 points above #2.

+1 to this, even a lord knight drops like a fly when hit with that 1000% tornado kick. The way it is now is still actually playable. I mean I still see 1 tk killing 4-5 ppl without even having a pally and a x2. And I know getting to the top 10 is not easy, but its not impossible either, of course, who wont be motivated by that 1000% boost and that 3x hp boost once you get to top 10? And dont tell me that once a stance proc that its hard to press that qwer on that keyboard. :D

[AlexTuban]

+1 to this, even a lord knight drops like a fly when hit with that 1000% tornado kick. The way it is now is still actually playable. I mean I still see 1 tk killing 4-5 ppl without even having a pally and a x2. And I know getting to the top 10 is not easy, but its not impossible either, of course, who wont be motivated by that 1000% boost and that 3x hp boost once you get to top 10? And dont tell me that once a stance proc that its hard to press that qwer on that keyboard. :D

As Ares mentioned, he did reduced the damage on TK. The description is wrong now. You seem like saying tornado kick with high damage on cursed ring are spammble like GS Full buster with just 1 button. You don't forget the combo need 2-3 kick to continue spam the kick. Without the blessed ring, the other kick is just hitting you with very very very low damage. You are probably mentioned the smart/fast thinking guy killing the weak/slow thinking one.

Please make sure yourself are in the right equipment. Maybe you on 2 raydric you never notice but if you go 2 skoll, Asura will just kill you in 0.1 second.

[Ares]

Oh my frickin god. You guys are unbelievable.

"nobody forced you to rank" "no one forced you to be in top 1"

How ignorant can you get, GM team? Are you even hearing what you're saying? You're passing the blame on us? Is this how you're supposed to treat your players? Ask them if they've been forced to do something and make it sound like "no one forced you to do that, so it's just fine if we change things mid-air just because we can".

You're not even gonna consider and appreciate the fact that 'we did this on our own and no one forced us to fucking do this kind of thing because it feels awesome and because the TK rankings exist so we might as well go for it', but instead you'd say 'nobody forced you to rank'?

Yes we did this on our free will, whenever we can do it. And I myself conquered the top spot and still going because those spots are all open for another ranker to claim. You can get dethroned any time and if you're in the Top 10 which is the point of having and losing the bonuses at the same time, you have no other choice but to find and secure a safe spot you think you can handle. We all want that bonus. Solely because that ranking system exists. It's awesome to be a part of it.

You people in the GM team can not use this fact to belittle us, or reason at us because you didn't create the TK system. It exists in all Ragnarok servers! What's the point of it existing if no one's gonna be in this list? To try and achieve that one of a kind bonus?

We're not even supposed to be talking about that thing because the issue here is the damage TKs dealt before the "update" (do I sound more civilized now because I didn't call it a nerf anymore?). Sure, they can easily deal that much damage, but as some of you already know, it is because we can adjust our weapon element to 7 different types. Earth, Wind, Water, Fire, Ghost, Shadow and Holy.

Use the right element and poof, you're in for a ride. But unfortunately, elements enchanted by Mild Wind can be dispelled. Once we're not on any Mild Wind element enchantment, neutralized, we barely even hurt. Classes who can dispel us and players who wear Randgris cards on weapons are our nightmares. Randgris can easily dispel us, because we're melee hitters, even if the enemy doesn't hit us physically, in which case we would have the honors to do so, we'd activate any active cards such as the dispel from Randgris card given the enemy has any sort of reflect equipment.

To prevent that from happening we can turn to our trusty GTB shield, which in turn leaves us even more vulnerable to attacks dealt to us. It's either we survive, but not deal damage, or deal damage, but not survive when we take the hits ourselves.

TKs were never all just advantages. Not all just bonuses and benefits from some kind of special ranking system. Again, I'm fine with the HP decrease (IT'S VERY MUCH REASONABLE NOW SO PLEASE THERE'S NO NEED TO TWEAK IT ANYMORE).

The damage, to be fair with you, okay fine, lower it a bit down BUT FOR GOODNESS' SAKE, NOT LIKE ITS CURRENT STATE. Like I said, Crit build Sinx deal way better damage than TKs right now. No one in here even mentioned that CritSinX are pretty much the same with TKs because they're also melee and they hit for a damage high enough that you'd also be gone in less than a second and reflect is also something that endangers their lives. But no one complained because people are used to it. All servers probably have it because it's a common class. Then we laid our eyes on the TKs who are quite new on the scene and are basically almost the same in terms of ways of killing opponents, but because we're not used to seeing them do it, we judge them.

I just want this to be over with. The longer this goes, the more unhealthy arguments come out of it.

P.S.

Please don't ever use our spots in the Top 10 again to reason with us. Nobody ever should. Give us a fucking break. That seriously annoyed me. Excuse my language but I believe that any member of the GM team or Dev team should at least be sympathizing with the players first and foremost while explaining their side intelligently at the same time and not agitate them even more just to make us see it on their point of view. If you want us to respect you and your opinions, respect and appreciate your players opinions too.

P.P.S.

There should also be no excuse next time changes like this happen without any notices here in the forums. It might create drama, yes and blah blah blah but at least you guys told us and not left us blank and have no idea what in the world is happening because no one is confirming these updates. Especially these class specific updates regardless whether they're in beta or godknowswhat stage. How hard can it be to type in a few words and post it in the forums? You can observe something, get it coded and release it in the live game but you can't even type in a short memo on the forums about this kind of change? This is probably the only game I know who has done that so far where they release a fix/balancing/update first before the patch notes itself. In this case there isn't even gonna be a memo about it as soon as possible if my friends haven't made me aware of the thing done to TKs and me disappointingly asking about it in here.

Type in here your desired effect now.

[AlexTuban]

Type in here your desired effect now.

As the above previous command mentioned TK had just 400k HP now and the emergency damage nerfed previously. The issue isn't on the ring now, the party skill as Moogle say it's up to 300% damage and this might the issue which you need to test it probably. TK is totally melee class, you need HP to tank the reflect and the incoming damage whereas LK can easily switch to spiral spear as a range skill. I believe TK has just a little bit more HP than LK anyway.

FYI, the original RO had the same thing TK ranker HP always had a little bit higher than LK.

No point asking the TOP ranker to give you the desired effect he want. Please get a ranker and test it yourself for the balance gaming. Again i repeat the issue on the party skill [KIHOP], not the ranker.

[Moogle]

I see no issues with the current damage, watching the events since the change i'm not seeing TK's struggle with survivability or DPS output.

And along with qperteplex I saw TK's still being able to one shot lower hp classes like sniper,sinx and even redux chars, granted I don't know what gear they were wearing but i doubt everyone was wearing improper equips.

Edited August 2, 2016 by Moogle

[Danger]

Hello

After checking the max number of people allowed on party (30) and reading the effects of Kihop skill I don't think is good idea to mess modify that (as someone suggested), It will affect not only TKs, but also SoulLinkers* and Star Gladiators.

It increases your ATK (2*SkillLV)% per party member on the same map.
For example, if there are 10 party members, and you have LV 5 in this skill, your ATK is increased by 100%.
The increase is applied to the BASE ATK rate, not counting in any other buffs that may have increased your ATK, and for skills that increase ATK above 500%, the calculation is fixed to (100 * Bonus%) + 500%.

The issue I see with this TK balance / nerf / whatever you want to call it is:

TK's damage was Ok / Not OP (even on rankers)** before the new rings / weapon were released.

Later, with the new weapon / rings, every TK got some love, making any non-ranker TK able to PvP decently without need to be on top 10

(in my humble opinion) the problem became when the Top Rankers started to PvP again, as they got bonus from new rings / weapon + Top 10 Ranker bonus

You can use this skill only if you are a TaeKwon. You cannot use this skill once you switch to Soul Linker or Star Gladiator.
When you use it, a name of a monster randomly choosed will be displayed and logged.
Then, if you kill that same monster for 100 times (does not have to be in a row), you get 1 Point, and you will be assigned a new randomly selected monster.
When you use this skill while your Target Percent is at 0% (no monster killed yet), you have a 1% chance to receive a new random target.
When you have a certain number of points you become a TaeKwon Ranker (No effect if you are already a Star Gladiator or Soul Linker).
As such, you can do infinite combos of all kicks - Whirlwind Kick, Axe Kick, Round Kick, Counter Kick - but you have to prepare the stance of at least 1 and spam when it triggers.
Also you must make alternate kicks, if you do the same kick twice the spam ends. However, you cannot do Flying Side Kick as part of an infinite combo.
Any LV 90+ TaeKwon Ranker players will have tripled Maximum HP and SP, and be able to use all of the TaeKwon skills. Check the TaeKwon Ranker Fame List by typing "/taekwon".

On servers with low rates / no bonus (like on official ROs), this is not an issue, as you don't have 195 ASPD, No -90% a-Delay, and all the things that we have implemented on this server to balance classes

The solution would be to modify the top 10 bonus from TK ranking system

In my opinion, the bonus HP / SP is ok, but the infinite combos (with the previous bonus from weapon / rings) is what makes them have great advantage over almost anyone.

Think on this like on the problem caused by Gunslingers some week ago, the people argued mostly not against the damage (some yes but not all) but on the posibility to reduce cast time (which is esentially same you get with infinite combos bonus)

If we disable the infinite combo thingy from ranker's top:

1) Every TK will have the same damage bonus making them balanced and no OP due to infinite combos

2) The TaekWons on Top 10 still get the bonus of the 3x HP / SP for their effort on ranking (and access to all the skills of the class in case they haven't bought skill points from kafra :th_e4: )


* which need some love, but we should discuss on another topic to not derail here
** based partially on the fact that: before update, they were like 4 or 5 active rankers PvPing from time to time and nobody considered OP, even with party bonus / buffs, in fact the damage was still ok with infinite combos

Edited August 3, 2016 by Danger

[Rayray]

If a class deals around 35k-50k PER SKILL, then that's a good enough number.

I am about to flip out because I am realizing that every character I have used(SL, Stalker, Biochemist) never really got a damage boost and I see people getting their damage reduced because it was massive (like the GS) complain about it.

Seriously, I know TKs did all those stuff to get to the top 10 but that doesn't mean that they should deal that much damage just after getting it. Seriously, 200k on one kick? SERIOUSLY? And you guys claim it does not need a nerf? The only way I hit that much on biochem is if you remove your armor.(don't even talk about armor break, everyone can easily get rsx or fcp)

If one kick hits around 30k+ to around 50k, even if I do see it too much(WS hit 35k-40k without thana, FAS hits around that much as well) then I think that is balanced enough.

A crit sinx hits more than 36k on dual so I don't think that is an issue. And that is normal due to EDP anyway.

Why is no one arguing about the damage of the other characters?! Are we all just switching to the characters that deals the most damage nowadays?

Good god, and people tell me Biochemists are OP because of 5k-8k bolts, 2k acid demonstrations(which becomes 1k on dual raydrics btw) and 200k hp.

I'm not judging people but this has to stop. Updates shouldn't just be upgrading damage for skills of a forgotten class so that people use them. It's been years since the updates on biochems and wizards and the best we ever got is Tao gunka card update on our hp.

[Ares]

If a class deals around 35k-50k PER SKILL, then that's a good enough number.

I am about to flip out because I am realizing that every character I have used(SL, Stalker, Biochemist) never really got a damage boost and I see people getting their damage reduced because it was massive (like the GS) complain about it.

Seriously, I know TKs did all those stuff to get to the top 10 but that doesn't mean that they should deal that much damage just after getting it. Seriously, 200k on one kick? SERIOUSLY? And you guys claim it does not need a nerf? The only way I hit that much on biochem is if you remove your armor.(don't even talk about armor break, everyone can easily get rsx or fcp)

If one kick hits around 30k+ to around 50k, even if I do see it too much(WS hit 35k-40k without thana, FAS hits around that much as well) then I think that is balanced enough.

A crit sinx hits more than 36k on dual so I don't think that is an issue. And that is normal due to EDP anyway.

Why is no one arguing about the damage of the other characters?! Are we all just switching to the characters that deals the most damage nowadays?

Good god, and people tell me Biochemists are OP because of 5k-8k bolts, 2k acid demonstrations(which becomes 1k on dual raydrics btw) and 200k hp.

I'm not judging people but this has to stop. Updates shouldn't just be upgrading damage for skills of a forgotten class so that people use them. It's been years since the updates on biochems and wizards and the best we ever got is Tao gunka card update on our hp.

Updates on Bio is coming its way to next patch bro. :)

[Rayray]

Updates on Bio is coming its way to next patch bro. :)

I seriously hope that it is not in a way of new items but rather an update on the old items. Everytime we might get an update, it becomes a new item, which sometimes make the old build irrelevant(like the GS updates which just eliminated the handgun build)

[Ares]

I seriously hope that it is not in a way of new items but rather an update on the old items. Everytime we might get an update, it becomes a new item, which sometimes make the old build irrelevant(like the GS updates which just eliminated the handgun build)

Yes. I balanced the damage of the CURRENT items to keep up with the new stuff.

[Ares]

As requested, here's the latest update on Taekwons.

http://www.forsaken-ro.net/forum/topic/32971-fate-of-the-gods-episode-25-guardians-of-asgard/?p=343507

It shouldn't be an issue because last GvG, I still see skilled Taekwons. However, we couldn't remove/modify Kihop also known as Fighting Chant that causes the issue for a Taekwon to be OP with max cap party.

[Ares]

Hello

After checking the max number of people allowed on party (30) and reading the effects of Kihop skill I don't think is good idea to mess modify that (as someone suggested), It will affect not only TKs, but also SoulLinkers* and Star Gladiators.

The issue I see with this TK balance / nerf / whatever you want to call it is:

TK's damage was Ok / Not OP (even on rankers)** before the new rings / weapon were released.

Later, with the new weapon / rings, every TK got some love, making any non-ranker TK able to PvP decently without need to be on top 10

(in my humble opinion) the problem became when the Top Rankers started to PvP again, as they got bonus from new rings / weapon + Top 10 Ranker bonus

On servers with low rates / no bonus (like on official ROs), this is not an issue, as you don't have 195 ASPD, No -90% a-Delay, and all the things that we have implemented on this server to balance classes

The solution would be to modify the top 10 bonus from TK ranking system

In my opinion, the bonus HP / SP is ok, but the infinite combos (with the previous bonus from weapon / rings) is what makes them have great advantage over almost anyone.

Think on this like on the problem caused by Gunslingers some week ago, the people argued mostly not against the damage (some yes but not all) but on the posibility to reduce cast time (which is esentially same you get with infinite combos bonus)

If we disable the infinite combo thingy from ranker's top:

1) Every TK will have the same damage bonus making them balanced and no OP due to infinite combos

2) The TaekWons on Top 10 still get the bonus of the 3x HP / SP for their effort on ranking (and access to all the skills of the class in case they haven't bought skill points from kafra :th_e4: )

* which need some love, but we should discuss on another topic to not derail here

** based partially on the fact that: before update, they were like 4 or 5 active rankers PvPing from time to time and nobody considered OP, even with party bonus / buffs, in fact the damage was still ok with infinite combos

I've considered some of your points here Danger. we've released an update for Taekwon Blessed, Cursed, and Guardian.

[Rayray]

Yeah I think modifying the skill takes work and might break something worse in the long run.

Can someone test the damage now? Test the damage of a solo TK ranker and someone with a full party please.

[Moogle]

Working with what i had on the test server, in a party of 5 people with cursed ring i was doing 22k and solo was doing 17k

on blessed ring i was doing about 25k with all kicks solo.

Edited August 3, 2016 by Moogle