MrFuddyDuddy Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 Current script used by the GTB card is { bonus bNoMagicDamage,100; bonus bUseSPrate,100; },{},{} Which nulifies 100% of all magic regardless if benificial or harmful, GTB card renders Magic users completely useless against anyone with this card equip, which is non sense since it does not take in to account of the element used, as there is currently no card to my knowledge that negates 100% physical damage. In my opinion it completely throws off PvP and makes High Wizards/Priest, Soul Linkers, Ninja, and Proffessors all completely useless and Stave Crasher is not enough as from experience it only does roughly between 1-5k damage to most players. I propose to change GTB to this script wise { bonus bMdef,200; bonus bUseSPrate,100; } },{},{} 200 MDEF would still give the wearer well over 100% protection against offensive magic, even if a player is using 2 Tao Gunka Cards. This change would allow magic users the opportunity to defend themselves against well geared players, rather than just end up cannon fodder.
Rayray Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 This is coming from a player who mainly plays magic classes. No, GTB does not need rebalancing, what needs to be done are few tweaks on the magic classes(mostly on their HP). Your suggestion completely ignores the fact that RO is primarily a team game, and mostly does team pvps rather than 1v1. No one will use a card that just gives mdef, as getting matk is easier than stacking mdef, so having it is pointless altogether. If your stave crasher does 5k at most, against players who are using gtb, you are doing something wrong or your gear is not on par with them. You should be doing at least 16k on incantation alone. Changing GTB will make magic classes OP in highrates. We tried it once in this server, giving 50% effect on gtb, it didn't work well.
MrFuddyDuddy Posted June 18, 2014 Author Report Posted June 18, 2014 Your argueing that its OP when many players have the capacity to almost insta kill other spongier classes with just a few hits, and that its some how perfectly balanced that Magic users cannot hit a GTB card user with anything that will cause any kind of serious damage, yet Champions, paladins, Lord Knights, Creators, White Smiths and basically every other physical damage using class all have the ability in one form or another to burst damage upwards of 40k a hit or higher from varrying distances. I just don't understand how its balanced, I've played RO for years and having GTB's modified was common place on many servers I've played on and had no impact on PvP other than allowing classes like the High Wizard to feel usefull. My main on this server currently yes is a High Wiz but I don't ever wonder into pvp with him, and its for this reason. Hell I'm lucky if I can hunt for MVP's without someone who slaps on a GTB try and maul me, so again I don't see how you can possibly find this balanced as is.
ChainBreak Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 Try and watch heha on fild killing people left and right on hwiz. Tell me again how they need more dmg. Tbh magic classes all have the ability to get good stave crasher dmg or some other form of physical dps. Mage and acolyte classes even get safety wall which they can spam to prevent melee range physical dmg. A good hwiz can deal 20k+ staves on a good spamrate. What they lack though is the hp to survive reflected magic and snipers. Afaik Hwiz and teakwon classes have the lowest hp pool on this server by a great margin. 1
qperteplex Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 -1 I've seen magic class players fight against GTB users, so its not the problem with the card but with the player. Giap with his prof back then did 20-30k staves on me and he is only one of the few magic users that I know that challenge GTB users. Magic users nowadays just rely on their magic attack then give up once their target goes GTB which is just sad.
ThePerfectHit Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 (edited) *cough* HW card *cough* , that will just make the GTB useless then. Edited June 18, 2014 by ThePerfectHit
sartorius19 Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 1st: Prof and other Magic Users are BASICALLY a support type. And also have DEFENSIVE SKILLS built only to it. Learn to use them. Cause even up to now im learning how to use skills and put them into action in right situations. 2nd: Theres so many things u can do when people go on Gtb, Like strip/Stave/Ifrit Rings/Get Melee Friends to kill. 3rd: If u damage low as ray said, u probably got a problem on ur gears and build. even legendary and knight set equips can deal a decent 13k-18k damage. (ive tried it as i started with those items as prof till now.) or people are on redux. but as far as i can see. no redux type can kill u unless its a taroter or u dont have seed. 4th: And fro almost nerfed many things. GTB case would be a long issue and argue + inputs before any changes would come again as i see it. But still does not guarantee it. 5th: Why would you use Wizard on MVP hunting, rather use sniper/champ. But yeah u can use it but not as viable as the other jobs. even with vesper card+3 kiels is not enough for a wiz. since its bolts is lower than a prof. 6th: See wizards and profs inside woe/gvg/br on how can they be very useful and vital. and specially wizards can own multiple enemies at once since during this fights they cant gtb always. and if ur refering on 1v1 PVP. refer to 1st-3rd.
Rayray Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 Your argueing that its OP when many players have the capacity to almost insta kill other spongier classes with just a few hits, and that its some how perfectly balanced that Magic users cannot hit a GTB card user with anything that will cause any kind of serious damage, yet Champions, paladins, Lord Knights, Creators, White Smiths and basically every other physical damage using class all have the ability in one form or another to burst damage upwards of 40k a hit or higher from varrying distances. I just don't understand how its balanced, I've played RO for years and having GTB's modified was common place on many servers I've played on and had no impact on PvP other than allowing classes like the High Wizard to feel usefull. My main on this server currently yes is a High Wiz but I don't ever wonder into pvp with him, and its for this reason. Hell I'm lucky if I can hunt for MVP's without someone who slaps on a GTB try and maul me, so again I don't see how you can possibly find this balanced as is. You just ignored what we say about dealing decent damage with stave and claims that magic users can't do anything when people use GTB when there are a lot of things they can do. I can kill any class with 250k hp within a few casts of firebolt on my prof, and that takes like 2 seconds. The reason why GTB is not changed is because of those scenarios, magic classes, with our customs, will own any class and have no weakness(they are ranged and have a lot of defensive skills) at all. Now if you argue with that maya card is there, I would like to see you tank heavens drive on just that card.
Endyuransu Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 (edited) they could only balance GTB if they balance the magic damage, u are dead in 1-2 seconds without GTB on this server u need 100% GTB to balance the insane magic donate gear, and to balance the 100% GTB u just get insane stave crasher damage server philosophy - insane dmg vs insane dmg and to negate that insane damage they just give u a insane amount of ygg berrys/seeds Edited June 18, 2014 by Endyuransu
gennova Posted June 19, 2014 Report Posted June 19, 2014 Try and watch heha on fild killing people left and right on hwiz. Tell me again how they need more dmg. Tbh magic classes all have the ability to get good stave crasher dmg or some other form of physical dps. Mage and acolyte classes even get safety wall which they can spam to prevent melee range physical dmg. A good hwiz can deal 20k+ staves on a good spamrate. What they lack though is the hp to survive reflected magic and snipers. Afaik Hwiz and teakwon classes have the lowest hp pool on this server by a great margin. heha LOL...so OP and im fine palying proff. Stave crash can do a decent damage
Forum~ Posted June 19, 2014 Report Posted June 19, 2014 This suggestion has come up and been rejected time and time again by the community. I disagree.
heha Posted July 6, 2014 Report Posted July 6, 2014 (edited) Hmm actually i do have a suggestion for this issue. I have research on other RO server and found 1 that did quite well on balancing the GTB. They came up with a custom card call GRB (reduces 90% of physical damage at the cost of receiving higher damage from magic attacks). I personally don't really like the idea of this so-called GRB card as i feel it will tend to be too OP. However, after further reading, I realize that they make it in a way whereby only EITHER gtb or grb are allow in our inventory. Meaning only ONE of this cards are only allow in our item/equipment list. So what i feel is that maybe we can work towards this. Right now for FRO, we have our own custom card usakoring which is like a replacement of their GRB card. Probably if possible, we can make it similar to them such as if you have usakoring, you cant have gtb or if you have gtb, you cant have usakoring. Not to mention there is Maya card as well. In fact, to be fair, I would rather have it this way. 1. Usakoring & Gtb in inventory, Maya be excluded 2. Usakoring & Maya in inventory, Gtb be excludedAny opinion on this? Magic class had been nerf too much as from what i have seen. I understand that magic damage is quite OP but it is really easy to counter if you equip with the right item. Eversince i started, there is this diablous robe which helps in after cast delay, but it was nerf and it no longer work. Then there is uber drop card which also helps in after cast delay, it was also nerf and no longer work. All I can see and understand is that nothing benefits the magic class. Everytime i realize, it's another nerf for the magic class. phew. The only good implement is the stave crasher damage got higher for wizard and that's all. I'm not saying for the sake because i play mage class and i want to gain advantage from it but on the other hand i really do love to see some improvement for mage class.Cheers~ Edited July 6, 2014 by heha 1
ChainBreak Posted July 6, 2014 Report Posted July 6, 2014 Maybe -MDEF should be put on usakoring? Something like MDEF reduced by 100 or a plus on received magic damage. Like "GRB" card, because then players will risk dying instantly when they put on the usako shield to reduce stave dmg. Or something like dmg from ranged attacks increased on GTB card. Then players would have to tank the magic dmg on usako or tank the amplified stave dmg.
heha Posted July 7, 2014 Report Posted July 7, 2014 Wa that will be too unfair to players I feel. -100mdef is not a kidding matter man. The damage will be too OP. And even if so, players can change to use thara frog card instead. My whole idea is just want to increase the survivability for mage class, not boosting their damage. As of now, their magic damage is definitely more then enough.
Rayray Posted July 7, 2014 Report Posted July 7, 2014 @heha your idea seem a bit too much. I can honestly say that it will make the only Int type class that really has decent magic and non-magic damage lose its biggest counter. I'm talking about Biochemists. With your idea, it eliminated the devs+gtb+gr to protect against BIos. 1. Usakoring + GTB but no maya = Bios will just bolt the hell out of people, even with 12k matk, they will hurt. Switch to GTB and prepare to receive tons of damage from acid demonstration. 2. Usakoring + Maya but no GTB= same as above, but using heaven's drive instead of bolts. switch to maya and acid demo will still kill you. Your idea limited a lot of things and most people will only need to think about what you are bringing with and can counter it easily. It may seem like it will help mage classes but ultimately, it won't. It will just make you way too predictable because everyone will know what you can't bring. 1
heha Posted July 7, 2014 Report Posted July 7, 2014 hmm this is quite true. Didn't thought of bio can counter easily. Just curious how that server manage to balance it. sigh. is there really nothing we can do to help improve mage class? keke.
WhyIsThat Posted July 7, 2014 Report Posted July 7, 2014 Maybe -MDEF should be put on usakoring? Something like MDEF reduced by 100 or a plus on received magic damage. Like "GRB" card, because then players will risk dying instantly when they put on the usako shield to reduce stave dmg. Or something like dmg from ranged attacks increased on GTB card. Then players would have to tank the magic dmg on usako or tank the amplified stave dmg. GRB? Goldring Boss Card u mean?
heha Posted July 7, 2014 Report Posted July 7, 2014 yea i guess that's what they called it in that server.
Rayray Posted July 7, 2014 Report Posted July 7, 2014 hmm this is quite true. Didn't thought of bio can counter easily. Just curious how that server manage to balance it. sigh. is there really nothing we can do to help improve mage class? keke. 1. Mage class needs survivability. They are generally a support class anyway. 2. At the moment, the biochemist class has the highest chance of being able to fight back once people slap on a gtb(even with devs+gtb combo). The other mage classes are stuck with stave crasher to counter GTB or use strip. Only prof and priest has the capability of going hybrid with melee, and this does not always yield good results.
ChainBreak Posted July 7, 2014 Report Posted July 7, 2014 Maybe a boost could be added to magic coat or a boost to the HP on the valk weapons? If survivability is the problem either more redux or more HP are needed.
Rayray Posted July 8, 2014 Report Posted July 8, 2014 More Reducts is a no no, we don't want another "stalker type reducts" when the weapons had demi human reductions. It's not necessarily hp either while it is indeed needed for soul linker and wizard. The problem is fighting GTB users will need you to deal enough damage to waste their seeds while you don't waste much of yours. Either you kill them with thana staves OR outlast their FCP to strip their shields off/break it with tarot from the ring of resonance. This does not only mean HP but rather having some utility skills that enables you to do so. The only classes that have them are Prof(blinding mist) and soul linker(leap and tumbling). I do not consider safety wall to be a part of it since if you use safety wall, you will only be spamming that to live and not have a good chance to use stave crashers well. I do use dwiz/amon ra, but that cuts the damage of stave crasher. Ring of resonance's assumptio helps a bit but still need a bit more. What if we have autocast kyrie eleison on the weapons of the mage classes?
jameslamela Posted July 8, 2014 Report Posted July 8, 2014 how about 99% reduction vs matk? atleast magic users can make enemy to flinch even if they dont deal serious damage to them... :th_blush:
ChainBreak Posted July 8, 2014 Report Posted July 8, 2014 Kyrie might be a good idea, but it wont protect them from magic reflect which is a big issue for wizards. If they fight a SL they are sure to die when they attempt to cast even one offensive skill aside from stave.
Rayray Posted July 8, 2014 Report Posted July 8, 2014 Kyrie might be a good idea, but it wont protect them from magic reflect which is a big issue for wizards. If they fight a SL they are sure to die when they attempt to cast even one offensive skill aside from stave. That's where the HP increase comes in
