Rayray Posted October 4, 2013 Report Posted October 4, 2013 (edited) Because every other Gunslinger only say "plz bring back our spam" and "plz fix dis GMs plz", I decided to create a topic that ACTUALLY HAS SENSE regarding the recent delays for the Gunslinger class. But first things first, before I came up with these suggestions, we have to keep in mind what Veracity said, that the delay will never go back to the way it was. Therefore, my suggestions DOES NOT INCLUDE bringing the original 90% delay reducts of Kiel cards on Gunslingers, because I myself believe it was too retarded. Whenever I wanted to troll and just kill in fild, I never go to my biochem, since it was for trolling ,and biochem takes longer to kill people unless I break their armor. All I do is go on GS, warp to fild, use speed pots, go near people and spam desperado and kill them all. It was too easy. I like the GS class, but we gotta admit that their spam was retarded then, considering Despe hits 3-10 mostly, dealing 14k damage on non thana. So here are my suggestions, after the tests I did. I have a lot, but doesn't necessarily mean that everything should be approved. Suggestion on Changing the delay cap 1. 75% is slow, it affects rapid shower alot more than it affects desperado, therefore, I suggest that the cap would be 80% but might need FURTHER testing since I do not know how fast 80% spam is at the moment. Suggestions if the delay cap will be fixed at 75% 1. Add 15% Delay reducts on the gunslinger weapons. My reasoning is simple: The third kiel is practically wasted. I would rather have to use only 2 kiels + maya P + fsoldier on default and have 75% delay then. Scratch this one, I forgot about clowns and they are on the same footing as gunsling on this but still have horrible spam. - I myself find this a little OP, but I like to hear from you guys. 2. Raise Desperado and Rapid Shower Damage. By how much ,I have no idea as of this moment. But at least raise the damage if the delay will be intact. 3. Have the delay affect ONLY desperado. This skill seems to be the problem, but it affected every other skill in the Gunslinger arsenal. Put a delay on desperado alone and leave Rapid Shower and other skills unaffected and that should be fine. Edited October 4, 2013 by Rayray
L2Aim Posted October 4, 2013 Report Posted October 4, 2013 It seems that if you use your fourth suggestion everything is fine, at least, that's how I interpret that suggestion. To recap, only have the delay on Desperado, leave all other skills intact and problem solved? If not I misunderstood that part. Another thing that may be interesting is getting a few different type of guns available, the Gunslingers are limited to Desperado and Rapid Shower because all there is (as in custom gears) are pistols. Diversify and perhaps a whole new form of gameplay will emerge. The damage of Rapid Shower is shabby the way it is anyway, it could use an improvement if the above idea/suggestion wouldn't be an option.
Shadi Posted October 4, 2013 Report Posted October 4, 2013 (edited) Suggestion on Changing the delay cap 1. 75% is slow, it affects rapid shower alot more than it affects desperado, therefore, I suggest that the cap would be 80% but might need FURTHER testing since I do not know how fast 80% spam is at the moment. Would be worth testing, though the current spamrate is fine imo. Suggestions if the delay cap will be fixed at 75% 1. Add 15% Delay reducts on the gunslinger weapons. My reasoning is simple: The third kiel is practically wasted. I would rather have to use only 2 kiels + maya P + fsoldier on default and have 75% delay then. - I myself find this a little OP, but I like to hear from you guys. Heck no. If things like these are done other jobs will want the same. What about clown/gypsy ? They still need to use 3 slots for kiels and they still have bad spam. Yet they're vurnerable. 2. Raise Desperado and Rapid Shower Damage. By how much ,I have no idea as of this moment. But at least raise the damage if the delay will be intact.Probably the best option. 3. Have the delay affect ONLY desperado. This skill seems to be the problem, but it affected every other skill in the Gunslinger arsenal. Put a delay on desperado alone and leave Rapid Shower and other skills unaffected and that should be fine.If this would be possible it'd be the best option. However the skill's delay would have to be really high server-sided and this would have to be tested intensively. Edited October 4, 2013 by Shadi
Rayray Posted October 4, 2013 Author Report Posted October 4, 2013 It seems that if you use your fourth suggestion everything is fine, at least, that's how I interpret that suggestion. To recap, only have the delay on Desperado, leave all other skills intact and problem solved? If not I misunderstood that part. Another thing that may be interesting is getting a few different type of guns available, the Gunslingers are limited to Desperado and Rapid Shower because all there is (as in custom gears) are pistols. Diversify and perhaps a whole new form of gameplay will emerge. The damage of Rapid Shower is shabby the way it is anyway, it could use an improvement if the above idea/suggestion wouldn't be an option. I myself would want Rifles and Shotguns introduced, however, most of the GS we have are already impatient, we cannot afford to make and test new weapons to compensate their spam. @Shadi forgot about the clowns on that delay on the weapon thing, so scratch that suggestion.
nilo16 Posted October 11, 2013 Report Posted October 11, 2013 I would have to agree on giving desperado a server side delay with a damage increase to the skill so it can maintain its earlier dps bit with less spam. Possibly giving it a better hit chance or higher damage modifier so it won't be a huge nerd cause as of now desperado is the primary skill and defines the role of gunslingers for most combat scenarios, rapid shower coming in a distant second as its a much weaker option in comparison and way weaker than similar skills like double strafe of a archer. So nefring the very core of the Gs hurts the class , yes it had to be done avoiding lag is a higher priority but for the balance of a burst class with little to no survivability it needs to be balanced out
nilo16 Posted October 11, 2013 Report Posted October 11, 2013 (edited) also I find without the spam rate survive melle damage is hard would some def buff be viable say like autoguard active while deep spam ..or say lvl 5 safety wall. Or just some damage redux Here a really hard one make pistol one handed and let Gs equip shield with pistols :-] Like counter :D Edited October 11, 2013 by nilo16
ChainBreak Posted October 11, 2013 Report Posted October 11, 2013 also I find without the spam rate survive melle damage is hard would some def buff be viable say like autoguard active while deep spam ..or say lvl 5 safety wall. Or just some damage redux Here a really hard one make pistol one handed and let Gs equip shield with pistols :-] Like counter :D That would be way op. Autoguard? Lvl5 safety wall?Even with the current delay that would be just way too much. Most GS I fought could easily survive my dmg on crit build even when I went dual wield. 40k hits just dont compare to 5-6 x 12k hits.
Shadi Posted October 11, 2013 Report Posted October 11, 2013 (edited) yes it had to be done avoiding lag is a higher priority but for the balance of a burst class with little to no survivability it needs to be balanced out Gunslingers are supposed to be a burst class with low survivability. However on here they had extremely high burst and quite HIGH survivability. I don't consider them a bursting class on this server really. If I want to obtain dps like a gunslinger on my wizard my HP would not go above 110k and I'd risk being reflected cause none of the wiz skills would be able to reach the gs's damage aside from JT or perhaps bolt spam. That's what you call squishy. Not a easy 220k+ hp that you get on gunslinger with 1 tao. also I find without the spam rate survive melle damage is hard would some def buff be viable say like autoguard active while deep spam ..or say lvl 5 safety wall. Or just some damage redux [/size] Here a really hard one make pistol one handed and let Gs equip shield with pistols :-] Like counter :D [/size] As it should be. You shouldn't be able to burst everything down in second by smacking one button. You should have difficulty surviving because your damage was and still is way beyond other classes. Autoguard and level 5 safetywall would be extremely overpowered and you already have a 1h pistol + shield... Adding even more reductions to a class that already has normal survivability and the highest burst damage is a nono for me. I'll stick to another point. If gunslingers are getting a good compensation then clowns should get one too. They've had major nerfs to their ability to spam, they've made constructive topics on how to improve the class and have had to deal with this issue for months longer than the gunslinger class already. Edited October 11, 2013 by Shadi
jameslamela Posted October 11, 2013 Report Posted October 11, 2013 in my point of view, would like to agree and disagree on some few things around here. im agree on: increase damage of gunslingers by several percentage and ... i would like to say even 5-10% increase damage is enough. if the GM increase the cast delay reduct to 80%, i would like to suggest the damage increase would be 10%, and if 85% on cast delay reduction, preferably i would suggest the damage will be increase only by 5%... let the delay on spam only affect desperado, and let rapid shower as it is before... GS rifle and shotgun... this one would be exciting... huehuehue! in short... im all agree with nightmare zeros suggestions... @nilo: i would like to disagree and give you -1 for your suggestion... giving the GS with lvl 5 auto guard or any some sort of damage reduction, it will just make the gunslinger become OP. a lil increase on spam and a reasonable additional damage will be justifiable in my opinion.
