Skills That Would Need Server Side Delays.

[Rayray]

I am making this topic in line with Genesis' reply on the suggestion where people discussed 3rd party programs aiding spams.

Seeing as some of our concerns were addressed already (like the LK Parry), let us help improve gameplay more. Making this topic, instead of multiple ones would make it easier , for the players and the GM team, to address said skills.

What skills are commonly used by cheaters that needs some fixing? When I say fix, it does not necessarily mean we put huge delays on them, because this will kill the class.

Also, what skills need to have a reduced delay(there are some)?

Please keep it civilized too thanks.

Skills that supposedly need server-side delay

1. Double Strafe*

2. Cart Termination*

3. Focused Arrow Strike*

4. Sonic Blow

5. Bowling Bash**

Skills that need fixing on their delay

1. Arrow Vulcan***

*- as pointed out by Airi. Putting hard delays on these skills will break the class that uses them as these are the only skills they can use. Which makes them tentative on this list or would need a different approach.

**- You can only see how ridiculous the spam of BB in WoE or against walled opponents.

***- AV can only be spammed a maximum of 3x(rarely). This cannot kill anyone. It needs to be increased a bit so that people will stop relying on tarot to kill with the clown/gypsy class.

ALTERNATE SUGGESTION

This comes from me alone unless you guys will support it. Ban all macros, even those that come with gaming gear. This makes it so that cheaters, once caught, cannot use it as an excuse, and makes it that everyone is on equal grounds in terms of spam. I have gaming gear, but never used the macro that comes with it as I find it boring to play RO with macros.

To the people that will say that it makes their gaming gear useless, not really. Gaming gear has better response time than normal hardware. It does improve your spam a bit, hardware wise.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Rayray

[Forum~]

Skills commonly used by cheaters: Cart Termination, Double Strafe, and Focused Arrow Strike.

I will post videos when I can that will explain why I suggested these skills. I will compare suspected cheaters' spam rate versus my own spam rate (I have roughly ~55 ping).

Skills that need added delay: Tarot Card of Fate.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Forum~

[Rayray]

CT, DS, and FAS. I will post videos when I can that will explain why I suggested these skills.

I was thinking of those as well. I think CT only needs 2 Kiel cards too, which can be a problem.

I know you have low ping so you will have a better grasp at testing this than me. Although I have used DS and for a ping at 150+, I can spam it fast, so I see your point.

I will keep editing the first post whenever something is suggested with proper reasons. I added the skills you said since I know they have been a problem before and I am not sure if it was addressed already.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Rayray

[ChainBreak]

Since it's complained about by everyone ingame: BB and bolts. Maybe also mammo.

[Rayray]

Since it's complained about by everyone ingame: BB and bolts. Maybe also mammo.

I can see the reasoning for BB.

Bolts, not so much as it is easily counterable.

I cannot spam mammo well due to the ping. I guess this comes from people abusing it on super babies?

[gennova]

I agree with the rest but bolt is different matter. Professor can spam bolt fast due the double bolt buff.

I try it without double bolt and the bolt delay was pretty high even with 3 kiel + 1 uber drops (before nerfed).

So this will make high wiz become more weaker then they already are (Though I don't think high wiz is weak ^ ^).

And like rayray said bolt was easily countered.

Maybe SB for sinx?

Edited July 18, 2014 by gennova

[Rayray]

I agree with the rest but bolt is different matter. Professor can spam bolt fast due the double bolt buff.

I try it without double bolt and the bolt delay was pretty high even with 3 kiel + 1 uber drops (before nerfed).

So this will make high wiz become more weaker then they already are (Though I don't think high wiz is weak ^ ^).

And like rayray said bolt was easily countered.

Maybe SB for sinx?

SB for sinx should have 3-4 maximum linked spam on my ping which is around 150. I don't know if others get higher than that. Kinda like how I can only link 3 AVs then the animation sets in.

Bolts are definitely out of this suggestion, profs only seem to spam them fast due to double bolt and the delay reduce from Super Babies before, which I think was already fixed.

Anybody have experience with AV on low ping? Every clown or gypsy i fought rely on tarot due to the fact that 3 AVs will hardly kill anyone even on thana. I think this is one of the skills that we should reduce the delay a bit, at least make it so that clowns can hit 4 AVs constantly, anything more might seem overkill. That's my opinion though, and as I said, my ping is a bit high. If low ping players can spam 5-6 AVs then consider my suggestion null. I just thought that if we can make AV viable, then we can slowly nerf Tarot.

[gennova]

SB for sinx should have 3-4 maximum linked spam on my ping which is around 150. I don't know if others get higher than that. Kinda like how I can only link 3 AVs then the animation sets in.

Bolts are definitely out of this suggestion, profs only seem to spam them fast due to double bolt and the delay reduce from Super Babies before, which I think was already fixed.

Anybody have experience with AV on low ping? Every clown or gypsy i fought rely on tarot due to the fact that 3 AVs will hardly kill anyone even on thana. I think this is one of the skills that we should reduce the delay a bit, at least make it so that clowns can hit 4 AVs constantly, anything more might seem overkill. That's my opinion though, and as I said, my ping is a bit high. If low ping players can spam 5-6 AVs then consider my suggestion null. I just thought that if we can make AV viable, then we can slowly nerf Tarot.

I have 270+ ping without WTFast can do max 3 AV and 2 AV constantly.

With WTFast I got 180+ ping and can do 3 AV constantly.

And after testing out with my friend with 50+ ping the AV still maxed at 3.

The conclusion i get is AV spam maxed at 3, and the ping only affect the consistency of spamming AV that normally 2-3 AV before the animation stopped.

The AV definitely need more improvement since many people giving up using these and rely on tarot.

[sartorius19]

But tarot also needs some delay imo as well.most clowns and gypsy i see is being on redux and just spam tarot. specially during woe. so theres a high chance they can kill anyone not wearing gtb. unlike to other redux class which can only def and tank but cant kill.

[gennova]

But tarot also needs some delay imo as well.most clowns and gypsy i see is being on redux and just spam tarot. specially during woe. so theres a high chance they can kill anyone not wearing gtb. unlike to other redux class which can only def and tank but cant kill.

Yea like rayray stated improve AV delay to 4 AV should be fine and redux tarot delay will do (cause the rules said they can't edit skill so editting tarot success rate is a no)

[Rayray]

But tarot also needs some delay imo as well.most clowns and gypsy i see is being on redux and just spam tarot. specially during woe. so theres a high chance they can kill anyone not wearing gtb. unlike to other redux class which can only def and tank but cant kill.

They can only function in WoE as taroters due to AV having a maximum of 3 AVs per spam.

So yeah, If we can increase that to 4-5(5 needs some tests first to make it not OP), then we can slowly put a hard delay on tarot. I don't know about you guys, but I love the clown class, but it bores me to death whenever I can only win with Tarot or get lucky on the switch to my thana weapon and enemy using gr armor and no skolls.

[Forum~]

SB for sinx should have 3-4 maximum linked spam on my ping which is around 150. I don't know if others get higher than that. Kinda like how I can only link 3 AVs then the animation sets in.

Bolts are definitely out of this suggestion, profs only seem to spam them fast due to double bolt and the delay reduce from Super Babies before, which I think was already fixed.

Anybody have experience with AV on low ping? Every clown or gypsy i fought rely on tarot due to the fact that 3 AVs will hardly kill anyone even on thana. I think this is one of the skills that we should reduce the delay a bit, at least make it so that clowns can hit 4 AVs constantly, anything more might seem overkill. That's my opinion though, and as I said, my ping is a bit high. If low ping players can spam 5-6 AVs then consider my suggestion null. I just thought that if we can make AV viable, then we can slowly nerf Tarot.

I can do ~4-5 SBs fairly often and 2 AVs (rarely 3 if I get the timing/dancing right). This is with ~50 ping, as a reminder.

I disagree with making AV easier to spam. Fighting a clown/gypsy already requires defaulting GTB to survive (because of OP tarot). This alone pushes their damage to the 10-12k range. Spamming that 4 times average is more than the full HP of many classes. While sinx can also spam more than the full HP of many classes, they don't have tarot. I think I can confidently state that tarot is the single most broken skill in the game. I'm sure I can kill almost anyone with just tarot alone.

I can see the reasoning for BB.

Bolts, not so much as it is easily counterable.

I disagree with BB because the innate knockback already serves as a skill spam buffer. It's really only when you're up against a wall or you have RSX that BB becomes brutal but those are situational.

I cannot spam mammo well due to the ping. I guess this comes from people abusing it on super babies?

I have not seen Mammonite abused in any sense to warrant nerfing. Super baby use has died down considerably. In fact, I don't think I've seen one in for_fild01 in like the past month. Strange considering how popular they were like 3-4 months ago. Edited July 18, 2014 by Forum~

[Rayray]

I can do ~4-5 SBs fairly often and 2 AVs (rarely 3 if I get the timing/dancing right). This is with ~50 ping, as a reminder.

I disagree with making AV easier to spam. Fighting a clown/gypsy already requires defaulting GTB to survive (because of OP tarot). This alone pushes their damage to the 10-12k range. Spamming that 4 times average is more than the full HP of many classes. While sinx can also spam more than the full HP of many classes, they don't have tarot. I think I can confidently state that tarot is the single most broken skill in the game. I'm sure I can kill almost anyone with just tarot alone.

I disagree with BB because the innate knockback already serves as a skill spam buffer. It's really only when you're up against a wall or you have RSX that BB becomes brutal but those are situational.

I have not seen Mammonite abused in any sense to warrant nerfing. Super baby use has died down considerably. In fact, I don't think I've seen one in for_fild01 in like the past month. Strange considering how popular they were like 3-4 months ago.

I was only up to making AV increase the limit to 4 if we nerf tarot If not, then I am not going to support that.

Yeah BB is situational and can only be used well in WoE, where rampant users of cheats are easily known. We only need one GM to watch one WoE to weed them out.

Super Babies died down I think when something was removed on their weapons(I think it was the reduce on delay.

[zencis]

Spam rate of FA and DS is fine. I do think snipers are supposed to deal the highest and fastest physical damage of all classes. If there's something wrong with it, it's the shield but the way the server is now, I guess without the shield, they'd be an easier kill than they should be. Btw, let's not forget about pneuma which renders most or maybe all snipers useless as a killer.

For WS cart termination, I think just a little delay won't hurt.

For bowling bash, hmm... if they removed parry for 1hand+shield then BB is fine the way it is.

For magic user skills, it's pretty obvious, gtb or maya would do the trick. honestly the faster they spam... well you know what's next. I actually want High wizard's stave to be more spammable.

For tarot, first off, THIS SKILL SHOULDN'T EVEN BE USEABLE IN WOE. About the spam rate in pvp, for me is ok and I've dealt with alot of them tarot spammers even in other servers and I know it's quite annoying but that's all they are. There's always gtb anyways but gtb should be able to negate whatever skill tarot throws cept for the equip breaking skills.

Sinx sonic blow is fine the way it is. Seriously, how hard is it to kill a sinx with no shield?

One more thing, I do think that battle chant shouldn't be useable in woe too.

[Igopewpew]

I actually disagree with this suggestion. I think it's wrong to nerf classes just because people use third party programs on them. You can not balance classes based on cheaters. Putting hard delays on DS/FAS/CT will break the sniper and definitely will break the WS class as you'll be nerfing their only decent offensive abilities.

Also tarot card of fate already has a succes rate so it already fails very often. The only reason people use it so much is because the delay on AV screwed AV over. Any good pvper will not die by AV as it's not spammable, the burst is slow and the damage is only average (even on gtb). Buff the AV spam rate and you won't see constant tarot spam as much. Yes sinx can burst someone down in one spam too, but that's vs usakoring. Clowns can't even do it vs gtb users as long as the gtb user pays attention. + Sonic blow burst dmg is a applied a lot faster than AV it's very easy to ygg during av spam.There's absolutely no reason to put a hard delay on tarot unless you make the success chance 100%. That's like putting a hard delay on full strip but keeping a low succes percentage on actually stripping. Makes no sense whatsoever.

Bowling bash is one of the most abused skills by third party programs, so I have no idea why that one would not be mentioned as one of the skills simply because it has pushback. WoE is the spot where these programs get abused the most so skills that are abused in WoE are the ones that 'need the nerf' if any. (I still disagree with the hard delays in general, it'll kill the fast paced pvp that we have).

For tarot, first off, THIS SKILL SHOULDN'T EVEN BE USEABLE IN WOE.

No idea where you got this from but tarot has always been enabled in WoE. On official servers as well.

[zencis]

Bowling bash is one of the most abused skills by third party programs, so I have no idea why that one would not be mentioned as one of the skills simply because it has pushback. WoE is the spot where these programs get abused the most so skills that are abused in WoE are the ones that 'need the nerf' if any. (I still disagree with the hard delays in general, it'll kill the fast paced pvp that we have).

Slightly agree with the BB during woe.

No idea where you got this from but tarot has always been enabled in WoE. On official servers as well.

A long time ago from some very well balanced mid and high rate servers. Why compare official servers with a high rate server anyway?

Lemme give you some examples of the big difference:

fro = High hp and mana pool | easily farmed and spammable berry/seed | Incredibly high weight limit| easily obtainable High stats and damage reducs equipments

Official / low rate servers=limited hp and mana pool | normal pots would be honey/bluepots/whitepots -try spamming those | Low weight limit -how much blue & white pots do you think a dancer can carry? | hard to get equipments for high survival probability rate.

In a low rate / official server, even with descent gears, just try standing in a huge mob while spamming your tarot and see what happens.

[hazbird123]

I like this, only for CT rly.. But i would rather c 3rd party program users punished and no nerfs

[Igopewpew]

A long time ago from some very well balanced mid and high rate servers. Why compare official servers with a high rate server anyway?

Lemme give you some examples of the big difference:

fro = High hp and mana pool | easily farmed and spammable berry/seed | Incredibly high weight limit| easily obtainable High stats and damage reducs equipments

Official / low rate servers=limited hp and mana pool | normal pots would be honey/bluepots/whitepots -try spamming those | Low weight limit -how much blue & white pots do you think a dancer can carry? | hard to get equipments for high survival probability rate.

In a low rate / official server, even with descent gears, just try standing in a huge mob while spamming your tarot and see what happens

I didn't bring up the official servers to compare FRO to it. You claimed that tarot card is not supposed to work in woe. You stated it as a fact. What I did was proof that that 'fact' was wrong as it's not disabled in any way shape or form on the original server so you can't state that the skill is supposed to be disabled in woe. If you want to argue rather it should be disabled (in your opinion, not as a fact) then you should make a suggestion topic as it has nothing to do with this one. It would make the class pretty much completely useless for woe (other than slowgrace/apple of idun) if it'd be disabled for woe. I don't care how stupid your other 'very well balanced mid and high rate servers' are. Breaking a class in woe does not make it balanced.

[Rayray]

I actually disagree with this suggestion. I think it's wrong to nerf classes just because people use third party programs on them. You can not balance classes based on cheaters. Putting hard delays on DS/FAS/CT will break the sniper and definitely will break the WS class as you'll be nerfing their only decent offensive abilities.

I only made this suggestion in line with Genesis' last reply on the other thread regarding client side and server side delays. At this point, I believe we have no choice but to try to lessen the spam of most, if not all, of the skills. I honestly wouldn't want it to go that way either. Spiral Pierce already had its server side delay increased, and yet we do not feel it much. If the same treatment of those other skills that got their delay increased a bit like Spiral be applied to the others just to make 3rd party programs unusable, I'll support it. If,however, it breaks the class due to a huge increase in delay, that would be the problem.

Again, not supporting a hard delay like what happened before to soul destroyer.

I was plainly wanting to get a list of all the skills that are problematic, as said so by the community. I am not as active as I once was were so I can only give examples from the few classes I use, mainly Bio, Stalker, WS, Prof, Soul Linker and Wizard. I'm pretty much neutral here and will list the skills up in the first post if at least a legit reasoning is said.

As I always said before, the way to have these people who uses 3rd party software be banned is to ban all 3rd party software, and that includes legit Macros bundled with gaming gears. Because at this moment, cheaters will constantly use that as an excuse. I see no reason not to remove macros honestly.

For tarot, first off, THIS SKILL SHOULDN'T EVEN BE USEABLE IN WOE.

Sinx sonic blow is fine the way it is. Seriously, how hard is it to kill a sinx with no shield?

One more thing, I do think that battle chant shouldn't be useable in woe too.

1. WAT. I see absolutely no reason for a skill like tarot to be banned in WoE.

2. Seems fine, if you use a character that has around 250-300k hp you will think that getting hit by SB will kill you. But as I tested before against a sinx who uses sb with a weird spam(he's banned now), dying to SB in an instant when you are using a pally with WTF HP seems overboard. With that said, SB is a good candidate as 3rd party software users push its already high damage to ridiculous amounts.

3. WAT. same reaction with your tarot comment dude.

I like this, only for CT rly.. But i would rather c 3rd party program users punished and no nerfs

I actually do not agree much with CT, nor any other skill here. I just see a bit of their reasoning for it as I have seen them being spammed at ridiculous speed. Especially DS and FAS when Drax is still here.

The problem with catching the users is they come up with the excuse of "using gaming gear and wtfast". It is really hard at the moment to distinguish legit users from cheaters. Therefore my other suggestion is to actually just ban all macros.

[Igopewpew]

I only made this suggestion in line with Genesis' last reply on the other thread regarding client side and server side delays. At this point, I believe we have no choice but to try to lessen the spam of most, if not all, of the skills. I honestly wouldn't want it to go that way either. Spiral Pierce already had its server side delay increased, and yet we do not feel it much. If the same treatment of those other skills that got their delay increased a bit like Spiral be applied to the others just to make 3rd party programs unusable, I'll support it. If,however, it breaks the class due to a huge increase in delay, that would be the problem.

Again, not supporting a hard delay like what happened before to soul destroyer.

I was plainly wanting to get a list of all the skills that are problematic, as said so by the community. I am not as active as I once was were so I can only give examples from the few classes I use, mainly Bio, Stalker, WS, Prof, Soul Linker and Wizard. I'm pretty much neutral here and will list the skills up in the first post if at least a legit reasoning is said.

As I always said before, the way to have these people who uses 3rd party software be banned is to ban all 3rd party software, and that includes legit Macros bundled with gaming gears. Because at this moment, cheaters will constantly use that as an excuse. I see no reason not to remove macros honestly.

I'm really not comfortable with hard delays being added. Not only would it be for the wrong reasons (not for balance but to prevent cheating ><) it would also ruin skills or classes for the legit players. Yes delays such as the one on spiral pierce wouldn't effect legit players much, but I'm afraid it won't stop third party program users from using it at rediculous speeds either. However delays such as the ones done on SBK (before the ring was added) completely break the skill and made it literally useless until the ring reduced the cooldown again. The same happened now with the fsk/running skill, due to the hard delay you can right now not use it legitly anymore and it has broken the class that already was one of the weakest ones out there. (Unless a bug is abused). It really depends on how large the delays would be but if they're tiny it wouldn't make a difference. And once you make them larger you'll hit the legit players too.

Also just saying you have gaming gear doesn't make you immune for bans. Keep that in mind.

[Forum~]

Also tarot card of fate already has a succes rate so it already fails very often.

Fails often? You've got to be squidding me. I'm going to post videos to counter-argue this later today. To reiterate, Tarot is the single most broken skill in the game. I'm positive a majority would side with me on this.

Any good pvper will not die by AV as it's not spammable, the burst is slow and the damage is only average (even on gtb).

In my definition of what burst damage is, it's precisely because it is burst that it is hard to ygg. While there is some predictability once you get a sense of the delay between skills like SB and AV, the burst factor is what renders kills for Sinxes and Clowns/Gypsies, so I don't understand what you're saying here.

There's absolutely no reason to put a hard delay on tarot unless you make the success chance 100%. That's like putting a hard delay on full strip but keeping a low succes percentage on actually stripping. Makes no sense whatsoever.

You're not making an impartial argument here. You're just stating your personal opinion.

No idea where you got this from but tarot has always been enabled in WoE. On official servers as well.

Why are you comparing apples and oranges. FRO != official RO. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_tradition

I'm really not comfortable with hard delays being added. Not only would it be for the wrong reasons (not for balance but to prevent cheating ><)

Right now, the ways to go about dealing with cheaters is a very passive in approach. Players have to make tickets and report them for some action to be taken. Sometimes, the issue doesn't get solved or is unfortunately, neglected. In observation of the problems inherent to bureaucracy, I believe all this can be swiftly resolved by adding server-sided delays. In comparison, this will be a very active approach on behalf of the server to prevent cheaters from going about their business.

As for myself, the prevalence of cheating is the sole detriment to this server's PvP environment. Since this server primarily propagates itself as a fast-paced, PvP-oriented server, don't you think taking action against cheaters (who ruin PvP) should be one of the primary issues to be resolved? Preventing cheaters from doing their thing sounds like all the right reasons to me.

Please convince me that this Double Strafe spam speed is legitimate:

Compared to this (my own, ~55 ping):

More videos to come (with CT, Tarot, BB, and SB). Edited July 18, 2014 by Forum~

[Captain Obvious]

^ that sniper must be t3n6 huh. His spamrate is quite abnormal.

I'm down with the server side delay esp on tarot skill.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Captain Obvious

[Igopewpew]

Fails often? You've got to be squidding me. I'm going to post videos to counter-argue this later today. To reiterate, Tarot is the single most broken skill in the game. I'm positive a majority would side with me on this.

Feel free to "Counter argue" it. It's a 40% chance so it fails more than it actually succeeds. It's all statistics and nothing influences the success rate. Also there's a ton of cards that have effects that don't do anything on a high rate environment like ours. So about 1 out of 2-3 cards is useless as well. So feel free to counter argue but those are the facts.

In my definition of what burst damage is, it's precisely because it is burst that it is hard to ygg. While there is some predictability once you get a sense of the delay between skills like SB and AV, the burst factor is what renders kills for Sinxes and Clowns/Gypsies, so I don't understand what you're saying here.

Burst damage is one big amount of damage that's applied quickly and hard to ygg through. Arrow vulcan at this current time is not 'burst damage' it can only do 3-4 in a row. All counted and stacked seperately, extremely easy to ygg through. If it's really supposed to be burst (and it is) either the damage has to get highered a lot or the spamrate has to be improved. Right now you can not consider it burst because it's slow and low to medium damage.

You're not making an impartial argument here. You're just stating your personal opinion.

Like basically all your posts?.. I think I elaborated why putting another delay on a skill that already has a succeeding chance or actually why nerfing tarot without buffing AV in general is silly. Either way there's a specific topic regarding tarot card so I suggest we keep that discussion to that topic. Tarot card is not one of the skills highly abused with third party programs so it's better to keep that skill's discussion in the other topic.

Why are you comparing apples and oranges. FRO != official RO. http://en.wikipedia....al_to_tradition

If you would not have been lazy and would've read the posts you would've had your answer already. To repeat it for you. The person in question said that tarot card was supposed to be disabled in WoE. He stated it as a fact, thus the official WoE restrictions were brought up which show nothing about this skill being disabled.(unlike a few other skills).

Right now, the ways to go about dealing with cheaters is a very passive in approach. Players have to make tickets and report them for some action to be taken. Sometimes, the issue doesn't get solved or is unfortunately, neglected. In observation of the problems inherent to bureaucracy, I believe all this can be swiftly resolved by adding server-sided delays. In comparison, this will be a very active approach on behalf of the server to prevent cheaters from going about their business.

As for myself, the prevalence of cheating is the sole detriment to this server's PvP environment. Since this server primarily propagates itself as a fast-paced, PvP-oriented server, don't you think taking action against cheaters (who ruin PvP) should be one of the primary issues to be resolved? Preventing cheaters from doing their thing sounds like all the right reasons to me.

I rather have a passive approach in which legit players are still able to use the classes that they like instead of having legit players be hit by hard delays due to people not able to play fair. Yes making sure cheaters get punished is important but it's not as important as keeping class balance as good as it is. You can not start nerfing classes to the ground just because people use third party programs to make them stronger than they normally are. The only good approach to the cheaters is by catching them and getting rid of them. Our opinions might differ here but I prefer playing against cheaters on my own none broken class than having my class get broken because some people can't behave. Again, adding server-sided delays does not only effect cheaters. Let this be clear it'll be direct nerfs to the CLASS and EVERYONE will feel them, including legit players.

@ the videos: The snipers spam is pretty fast, even though the video doesn't show it as much I know that this sniper spams faster than normal (So either macro keyboard/mouse or bn) However your own recording has really slow spam. I have quite a bit higher ping than you but I spam a lot faster than you did in your video.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Igopewpew

[gennova]

@ the videos: The snipers spam is pretty fast, even though the video doesn't show it as much I know that this sniper spams faster than normal (So either macro keyboard/mouse or bn) However your own recording has really slow spam. I have quite a bit higher ping than you but I spam a lot faster than you did in your video.

Just as he said no offense ^^. The sniper on video really have a fast spam, but I can spam DS a little bit faster then you using Razer Blackwidow Stealth + WTFast (170+ ping). Sorry again no offense here.

[Rayray]

This is also the issue I see in here. Putting a delay that would be noticeable would stop cheaters but hit everyone else. If the spam is not as fast in the first place, it would definitely not be advisable to put a delay on there.

This is what I want: Have small delay, like the one on spiral which is barely noticeable unless you played the lk class, just enough that when people use cheats, they spam at least close to the ones that does it legit. I am not sure if that is possible though.

@Forum~ that first video definitely is not legit. His DS looks the same as my acid bomb spam. I would report that honestly.