Bring Normal Gs Spam

[Rayray]

Clowns/Gypsies AV is hindered by the delay that you can only chain about 3 normally, but it can kill. I tried gunslinger earlier, while the delay was definitely noticeable, I was able to kill people. It is just not as fast as it was before. You have to admit, a desperado spam at 0 delay on using kiels will kill almost anybody if you are close enough.

I do agree that the delay was too big, compared to the supposedly delays to spiral pierce which doesn't seem to bother LKs. But as they said, it was PRELIMINARY.

Well, a damage increase on desperado, if big enough, can counter the slower spam. I can hit around 20-28k each hit on thana desperado, 14k-18k on non thana. So if they increase the damage then, then yeah I think it can kill. FAS is actually a slow spamming skill if you look at it, but it does kill people, so I don't think reverting the delay on desperado would be the key. Just a little tweak would do.

[Shihi]

bring normal gunslinger spam back, specially us gunslingers as our main we spend time and effort to gear our gunslingers. and now that cast delay is increased, i feel like my gunslinger is useless. many people are quitting gunslingers cuz of this i hope you bring the normal spam back.

GM just do why its need to be fair on all class Gunslinger are too Overpowered on woe/pvp w/ those epic spams that's so unfair and they didnt nerfed gunslinger only they even nerfed Stalker too,

So be fair and face the changelog :)

anyway -1 on this

[Rayray]

^ Nerfed stalker? How? I didn't see anything on the changelog about stalkers.

[benchiiie]

if 3kiels reduce 90% after-cast delay, but on the GS's case, like sir Gen said, it's capped at 75%, it's was just like using 2Kiels and 1Silver Kiel. Sounds Cheap for ppl. but i think, making a GS wear 2real kiels and 2Silver kiels can solve the spam problem for GS, since the Silver Kiels effect was like this : "Reduces after-cast delay by 15% [Effect nullified if more than 3 kiels are equipped] . I just dunno if the 'kiels' it describes was also pertaining to silver ones.

[jameslamela]

if 3kiels reduce 90% after-cast delay, but on the GS's case, like sir Gen said, it's capped at 75%, it's was just like using 2Kiels and 1Silver Kiel. Sounds Cheap for ppl. but i think, making a GS wear 2real kiels and 2Silver kiels can solve the spam problem for GS, since the Silver Kiels effect was like this : "Reduces after-cast delay by 15% [Effect nullified if more than 3 kiels are equipped] . I just dunno if the 'kiels' it describes was also pertaining to silver ones.

yeah buddy... we are allow to use 2kiels+2silver kiels... im now currently using it for my GS. the only bad thing is... we can no longer use f.soldier card and ship capt hat which i consider a big lost for GS class already..

[nellysky]

let all char not able to use 3 kiel.. to be fair...

all char will only able to use 2 kiels,, additional of 2 silver kiels is not even alowed..

men this definitly kills us ninja easy... huhuhuhu

evrybody knows that GS is not OP in 3 kiels.. how much more on using only 2kiel..

new GS are usefull enaf of having 3kiels even they dont have great damage yet like wel geared GS do.

i dont think enlarging of despi damage bcoz of nerfing GS spam will be fare to this char..

Edited September 22, 2013 by nellysky

[ChainBreak]

let all char not able to use 3 kiel.. to be fair...

all char will only able to use 2 kiels,, additional of 2 silver kiels is not even alowed..

men this definitly kills us ninja easy... huhuhuhu

evrybody knows that GS is not OP in 3 kiels.. how much more on using only 2kiel..

new GS are usefull enaf of having 3kiels even they dont have great damage yet like wel geared GS do.

i dont think enlarging of despi damage bcoz of nerfing GS spam will be fare to this char..

THIS IS NOT ABOUT GS BEING OP WITH 3 KIELS WHICH HAS BEEN STATED 9001 TIMES ALREADY THANK YOU FOR READING SO THOROUGHLY

This is about how despe spam makes people lagg at woe. That is the reason why the spam got reduced.

Vera already said that they want to buff GS in other ways to make up for the reduced spamrate.

But apparently GS don't even want to think of getting asura dmg despe or FAS dmg rapids. They just want their spam.

[Rayray]

I seriously find it weird that people do not read that this is a preliminary change. WS used to not have to need kiels and now they do, you do not see them complaining much. And this issue has been there with clown/gypsy spam and they live with it. I even feel FAS slowed down a bit compared to before.

Genesis said so before, no class shall gain 0 delay because it leads to abuse. Genesis also said that he will be open to suggestions after 2 weeks when this has been tested out well.

[jameslamela]

I seriously find it weird that people do not read that this is a preliminary change. WS used to not have to need kiels and now they do, you do not see them complaining much. And this issue has been there with clown/gypsy spam and they live with it. I even feel FAS slowed down a bit compared to before.

Genesis said so before, no class shall gain 0 delay because it leads to abuse. Genesis also said that he will be open to suggestions after 2 weeks when this has been tested out well.

GS has no 0 sec cast delay.. even with 3 kiels before we have 0.1 sec cast delay, and now we have 0.25 sec cast delay on desperado. hence desperado hit only by random, as i tried it my desperado only hits 1-3times mostly, and x5 sometimes but not often. x10 hit on desperado is far impossible and i never noticed it happend. even without nerfing GS, the class are not OP and easy to be counter "if you are pro". the main reason why we complain on this preliminary nerf is to voice out our opinion on what should be done. and pls... dont compare us to WS,clowns and gypsies,snipers etc... coz GS is too far different from them.

[XiaoMing90]

It's a good job to nerf this shit!!

[Rayray]

GS has no 0 sec cast delay.. even with 3 kiels before we have 0.1 sec cast delay, and now we have 0.25 sec cast delay on desperado. hence desperado hit only by random, as i tried it my desperado only hits 1-3times mostly, and x5 sometimes but not often. x10 hit on desperado is far impossible and i never noticed it happend. even without nerfing GS, the class are not OP and easy to be counter "if you are pro". the main reason why we complain on this preliminary nerf is to voice out our opinion on what should be done. and pls... dont compare us to WS,clowns and gypsies,snipers etc... coz GS is too far different from them.

I have to compare the classes that got nerfed on their cast delays as well, GS is no different. GS has 0 aftercast delay with 3 kiels, if you noticed before, you can spam desperado like hell without stopping. They are indeed not OP, but as it has been said before, this is a PRELIMINARY thing, it will change. And to get more hits on desperado, you have to be really close, if you are hitting 1-3x only, that means they are almost outside of the desperado AOE.

[jameslamela]

It's a good job to nerf this shit!!

idk were you came from dude or what job you play, but i felt pitty on you coz you dunno how to counter even a simple GS. tsk..tsk..tsk...

[waterintoblood]

<3<3<3 GS

sooo people lagg in woe... why am i not lagging in woe? :P

[jameslamela]

<3<3<3 GS

sooo people lagg in woe... why am i not lagging in woe? :P

yeah... nerfing GS because the reason is lag doesnt make sense. even if not GS, other jobs can make lag especially when there is 50++ people in you 1whole screen for example.. to counter the lag due to effect just simply turn off effect and simply relog. then the lag is gone, if not... at least it could be lessen. period...

[Rayray]

I don't actually see Genesis and Veracity saying that the reason for the change is lag.

And also, RO is a game that uses less graphics than most games, the reason to lag in WoE is the amount of activity happening in one place. Effects on or not, GS spam of desperado might or might not be the reason for it.

[ChainBreak]

We increased the delay on desperado because it was problematic as it was and caused many people to lag very badly, especially in WoE. The delay may be reduced slightly, and/or we may increase damage of desperado to make up for the delay. We'll see. Right now, we are going to give it some time and see what the best course of action is. Just bear with us and try to be patient. :)

Is what Vera wrote in the update topic.

[Lenneth]

I believe there is a command @refresh that helps refresh your screen. Can we have that activated?

[Hypnosis]

-- edited since the post is a flame post and I removed it-- Shino

He was never fully geared so why don't you be quiet? I bet you don't have half the skill your reply screams. I bet as a matter of fact I would rape your noob ass with my knight set just like I did some of the other so called "pros".

Gunslinger is a glass cannon, supposed to dish out high amounts of damage but die easily you fucking derps. They are supposed to have high dmg. Our low hp balances it out. Some of you obviously have never played a server with real balance.

As for the lag, cutting a class at the knees is not the best way to solve that issue, that all lies within the delay rates of the entire server, not just one class, there are many more classes that have larger scale skills along with bigger effects that cause more lag then the desperado from a gunslinger.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Shino
Removed post related to flaming by XiaoMing90

[ChainBreak]

He was never fully geared so why don't you be quiet? I bet you don't have half the skill your reply screams. I bet as a matter of fact I would rape your noob ass with my knight set just like I did some of the other so called "pros".

Gunslinger is a glass cannon, supposed to dish out high amounts of damage but die easily you fucking derps. They are supposed to have high dmg. Our low hp balances it out. Some of you obviously have never played a server with real balance.

As for the lag, cutting a class at the knees is not the best way to solve that issue, that all lies within the delay rates of the entire server, not just one class, there are many more classes that have larger scale skills along with bigger effects that cause more lag then the desperado from a gunslinger.

The please give examples. The only I can think of is MetorStorm, but I never see anyone using it except heha.

[jameslamela]

-- edited since the post is a flame post and I removed it-- Shino

ok... i admit orig zod looks noob shit lik L.zod, and dex belts, freyr, and frigg cannot be seen. and yes i got kos for sometime at for filled coz i dont lean on other to back me up... but you cant ignore that i kos people with cape and ring. and sorry i cant remember you man. coz i can only remember those people who really good at pvp... so that means youre not. :p

Is what Vera wrote in the update topic.

so if these are the reasons according to vera, "if really valid"... well my final suggestion for GS is to raise the after cast delay reduction from 75% up to become 85% but not necessarily 90% or so... then for the damage increase, either let us have lvl 10 provoke that can be target on our selves or increase the damage added by L.gun and valis by 5-10% using rapid shower and desperado.. for me that would be fine and i can perhaps ignore the 5% spam speed decrease. ill be looking forward for GMs reply...untill next week...

Edited September 26, 2013 by Shino

[markadik21]

GM PLS FIX THIS.. I THINK THIS IS BAD ... FOR WOE/MVP/PVP ITS SUCKS.. DELAY LIKE THIS

[Hypnosis]

The please give examples. The only I can think of is MetorStorm, but I never see anyone using it except heha.

H/D, Priest buffs, Wiz AoE all make lag in tighter areas like WoE maps.

[Shadi]

H/D, Priest buffs, Wiz AoE all make lag in tighter areas like WoE maps.

Correct me when I'm wrong, but when the admins say "lag" they mean lag caused by the client handling the damage calculations, not the lag caused by sprite effects (Yes, these are different). The damage calculations are client-wise and none hardware related, however the lag caused by sprites is hardware related and thus on less powerful computers sprite lag aka graphic lag is reduced by disabling effects. The client-calculations(none hardware related) lag however can not be reduced by turning off effects and everyone has this lag. Just some players feel the lag a lot more than others due to the role they have in WoE.

For example an GS spamming desperado won't feel the lag much, if at all. however a sinx trying to get to the emp will feel the lag caused by the endless spam of multiple gunslingers spamming desperado. There's no other skill in this game that had that many hits + such a high spamrate and that is actually massively (ab)used during WoE.

For the ones saying "get a better computer" The lag caused by client calculations has nothing to do with the computer you run it on. The computer's speed is limited by the client's speed and thus you can have a i7 4.0ghz quad core, 16gb+ of ram, Nvidia geforce titan and whatnot, you will still feel the lag caused by the client.

[Monaco96]

^ I will go on a limb here and say silver kiels?

Guys chill, they already said that it isn't final. It is just an initial test.

AHAHA...RAY already told the secret wahaha...pro rayyyyyyyy..

[Shino]

Enough. I am handing out warnings to those who are not contributing but are just flaming one another, and I am also hiding the replies that doesn't help at all.. Do not make this thread a flaming thread, otherwise your goal of reducing the delay for gunslingers will be for nothing.

@topic What Shadi said here probably is the reason kiel effect for gunslingers is lowered. Even if you had effects turned off, if there are multiple gunslingers spamming desperado around the emp, you will lag, no matter your hardware is. This is not felt as much by the ones doing the skill(Gunslingers).

Genesis already said that this is not the final change..