Endless Tower To Forsaken Tower

[DarthKalas]

I took a jab at the MVP room and I must say this is not quite what I had in mind in terms of what the normal MVP room on other servers. The long waiting periods, the amount of zenny needed to summon 1 MVP with a 1%chance to obtain a card. I present to you an Idea of a new MVP room with the overhaul of the Endless Tower.

Forsaken Tower

The Babel of Darkness

you start on the first floor, the tower is X amount of floors (X being the total amount of MVPs in the game) with the final floor being Naugt Sieger and Thanatos spawns. These MVPs all have drops but at a lower rate than the MVPs in the MVP room and normal spawns. On each floor there are 20 of each MVP (amount of MVP's subject to change based on Administrator's call) and only a party of 4 may enter. Like the MVP rooms, there will be 3 towers each of which can be entered at any given time but upon completion there is a 1 hour cool down before anyone may enter again.

This will allow newcomers to form groups and undertake trials which will allow them to stand on some common grounds with veteran players.

(Forsaken Tower MVPs are not affected by floating rates)

[zergling]

i kind of agree with it but i think it should be a longer delay period because think about it even if the number of spawns is reduced to 4 that's a 1% chance x4 so 4% chance to get the card. the problem with this is the thanatos. the normal thanatos card drop rate is 0.7%. if there are 4 at the top what's to stop people from doing the entire tower(which wouldn't be very difficult with a sniper/champ combo) just for the thanatos spawns at the top. it would cause an influx of thanatos cards and the price for thanatos would drop. the server does not need a bunch more thanatos cards on it.

[Rayray]

It has to be a really, really low drop then. I mean, a sniper, bio, champ, prof party combo on that tower would be more than enough. It would be easy to get cards with that setup honestly.

[-Si-]

The cool wouldnt matter much really, players could just make accounts lvl up, trade items to new account, MvP and repeat.

[zergling]

yep that's kinda what i'm afraid of.

[DarthKalas]

The cool wouldnt matter much really, players could just make accounts lvl up, trade items to new account, MvP and repeat.

could always implement a long quest chain to gain the right of entry ( obtain a non tradeable/storeable pass) that way it will discourage the creation of multiple character entering on same account

As for the delay after success/failure, would you mind suggesting for a time for the delay?

[supream]

i kind of agree with it but i think it should be a longer delay period because think about it even if the number of spawns is reduced to 4 that's a 1% chance x4 so 4% chance to get the card. the problem with this is the thanatos. the normal thanatos card drop rate is 0.7%. if there are 4 at the top what's to stop people from doing the entire tower(which wouldn't be very difficult with a sniper/champ combo) just for the thanatos spawns at the top. it would cause an influx of thanatos cards and the price for thanatos would drop. the server does not need a bunch more thanatos cards on it.

Where do you get your math from. 4 mobs x 1% drop rate doesn't equal 4% chance to get the card. That's like saying if i kill 100 porings with 1% drop rate ill get the card on the 100 kill. The drop rate will still be 1%.

[zergling]

regardless it's going to cause an influx in the number of major mvp cards and cause nothing but problems. people will simply make new characters and continue to do the tower. this would be fun to do yes but it wouldn't really provide anything but trouble. now if you could suggest a quest item that this tower could be a part of then sure i'm game for this, but it would require the mvp's to have no drops.

[DarthKalas]

regardless it's going to cause an influx in the number of major mvp cards and cause nothing but problems. people will simply make new characters and continue to do the tower. this would be fun to do yes but it wouldn't really provide anything but trouble. now if you could suggest a quest item that this tower could be a part of then sure i'm game for this, but it would require the mvp's to have no drops.

I love how you are by far the only person who oppose my Ideas without any "Solid" reason. You are basing all of your arguments upon a Fluctuating player market that is based on the "Token Currency" you have to look out for the players that have no means of purchasing tokens, as to where they are bound to using Zenny as their primary currency as opposed to tokens. Cards are a natural drop in the game which should (contrary to popular belief) be purchasable by players from players using Zenny. Yes Cards are available by donation for those who can shell out the cash to do so. For those who cannot, they are stuck competing in a game of "whack a mole" with MVPs against veteran players who vastly out-gear them. In this manner players are able to equally compete and hunt without the power struggle. I see you against a cause but yet you bring no solution. All you say is "No that is not a good Idea", and bring a half-hazard reason as to why it is a bad Idea. Yes the price for cards will undoubtedly drop, that is the idea. to make fair play between players. You shout "Price This" and "Economy Crash That." Honestly when a new currency is implemented that overshadows the old currency, that is when an economy crashes. Imagine the USA, Take our whole "Dollar" system and make the dollar a secondary currency and bring in diamonds as the new primary currency. The rich can afford the diamonds but the poor are still stuck with their dollars which is barely allowing them to get by. Of course the lower class can buy Tokens from other players but at that price that is a lot for 1 token. The rich sell to the rich because only the rich have the power to camp MVPs undisturbed. The poor are left scraping Zenny from mobs to take a 1% shot at getting an MVP card and have 99% chance of being disappointed. At the current rate a lot of players will not be able to hack it and lose motivation to continue. Instead of worrying about the market, try hearing the players cry for a chance to get stronger and compete with top players and not be ignored. I have already personally proposed this Idea to Vera and she told me it is a great Idea and Genesis thinks so as well. You seem to be the only one that dose not see the true potential of the proposition. Maybe you fear new competition? Maybe you resent the idea of people having an easier time than you did back in the day? Whatever your reasons try being a bit more open. And stop Zerg Rushing all my Ideas.....

[zergling]

okay to your entire statement, bullshit. i started before you had the knight quest, before you could MAKE half donation weapons in 1 day. back then you had nothing. you started with nothing and you got bullied. i have seen players with knight gear stand up to fully donation gear players. so your whole statement with the newer players not being able to hack it is a load of crap. as far as the economy goes, it's not completely about the number of cards being shoved into the economy it's more about the type of cards that are going to be placed into the system. for instance when fighting most players you normally won't wear skolls, now if suddenly there's 5 new thanatos cards per week, it might not seem like a huge difference but it makes a hell of a difference when all of a sudden everyone has a thanatos card making the card worth next to nothing when it's one of the best cards in the game by far. now my reasons for not liking this suggestion are these:

1: economy would crash.

2: influx of new cards would completely ruin the server as a whole.

3: the new players wouldn't be able to get into the tower until all of the geared players are finished with it making the poor have to either wait forever or never manage to get into the tower.

now if you don't think these reasons are good enough please tell me why, because obviously you haven't been on long enough to realize this type of economy.

[DarthKalas]

There is a difference between When you started and when newer players start. You started back when the server was still fresh and new. At this stage in a server everyone is equal. Older players are decked out in donation gear and elite armors that new players cannot get. You have Heavy camping preventing newer players from being able to get anywhere near as good as the veteran players due to the fact that cards are being sold for tokens and not zenny. Zenny, which used to be the primary currency has been completely replaced by tokens. tokens can only be obtained by 2 ways, Buying them from a player that has them or donate to the server which in this case not many people can. Greater cards like Tao Gunka and Turtle General are being sold for 60 Tokens each other less used MVP cards are sold for 1-2 tokens at most 4 tokens. Now farming for zenny is not hard just time consuming and if a person is farming for way too long the game becomes tedious and the player loses interest and quits altogether. I talked to vera about the tower idea and she stated it is a great Idea but for the MVPs in the tower the card drop rates would have to be reduced, further more there would be 3 towers total that would allow parties of up to 4 players. Further more the MVPs would be a lot harder than normal MVPs and would require actual team co-operation to take an MVP down. You stated 3 reasons as to how you didn't like my Idea

1: economy would crash. <--Currently I see no economy, I see the same merchants in the mall day after day selling the same Items for absurd prices trying to make a living.

2: influx of new cards would completely ruin the server as a whole.<-- I do not see how, many other servers have MVP rooms and they are doing great.

3: the new players wouldn't be able to get into the tower until all of the geared players are finished with it<--With long cool downs and 3 towers everybody will get chances to enter. (they shouldn't think about entering under-geared

You have to look at it in a logical sense, Ragnarok is not like it used to be, people play for very limited times and the long quest chains to obtain items can take a lot out of someone. 1000 of an item can drive someone mad especially if they are making doubles of something L. Gauntlets for example. The amount of time and patience it takes to progress here is not for everyone and geared for people who have an extremely large ammount of time on their hands. You have that veteran mind set where where you refuse change because you are affraid of the outcome. Like post traumatic stress disorder, you leap and rage when you hear a suggestion that will change the way of your online lifestyle. I wont argue with you on the subject anymore, I already addressed vera about it. I will leave the decision up to them.

Cheers~

[zergling]

There is a difference between When you started and when newer players start. You started back when the server was still fresh and new. At this stage in a server everyone is equal. Older players are decked out in donation gear and elite armors that new players cannot get. You have Heavy camping preventing newer players from being able to get anywhere near as good as the veteran players due to the fact that cards are being sold for tokens and not zenny. Zenny, which used to be the primary currency has been completely replaced by tokens. tokens can only be obtained by 2 ways, Buying them from a player that has them or donate to the server which in this case not many people can. Greater cards like Tao Gunka and Turtle General are being sold for 60 Tokens each other less used MVP cards are sold for 1-2 tokens at most 4 tokens. Now farming for zenny is not hard just time consuming and if a person is farming for way too long the game becomes tedious and the player loses interest and quits altogether. I talked to vera about the tower idea and she stated it is a great Idea but for the MVPs in the tower the card drop rates would have to be reduced, further more there would be 3 towers total that would allow parties of up to 4 players. Further more the MVPs would be a lot harder than normal MVPs and would require actual team co-operation to take an MVP down. You stated 3 reasons as to how you didn't like my Idea

1: economy would crash. <--Currently I see no economy, I see the same merchants in the mall day after day selling the same Items for absurd prices trying to make a living.

2: influx of new cards would completely ruin the server as a whole.<-- I do not see how, many other servers have MVP rooms and they are doing great.

3: the new players wouldn't be able to get into the tower until all of the geared players are finished with it<--With long cool downs and 3 towers everybody will get chances to enter. (they shouldn't think about entering under-geared

You have to look at it in a logical sense, Ragnarok is not like it used to be, people play for very limited times and the long quest chains to obtain items can take a lot out of someone. 1000 of an item can drive someone mad especially if they are making doubles of something L. Gauntlets for example. The amount of time and patience it takes to progress here is not for everyone and geared for people who have an extremely large ammount of time on their hands. You have that veteran mind set where where you refuse change because you are affraid of the outcome. Like post traumatic stress disorder, you leap and rage when you hear a suggestion that will change the way of your online lifestyle. I wont argue with you on the subject anymore, I already addressed vera about it. I will leave the decision up to them.

Cheers~

There is a difference between When you started and when newer players start. You started back when the server was still fresh and new. At this stage in a server everyone is equal. Older players are decked out in donation gear and elite armors that new players cannot get. You have Heavy camping preventing newer players from being able to get anywhere near as good as the veteran players due to the fact that cards are being sold for tokens and not zenny. Zenny, which used to be the primary currency has been completely replaced by tokens. tokens can only be obtained by 2 ways, Buying them from a player that has them or donate to the server which in this case not many people can. Greater cards like Tao Gunka and Turtle General are being sold for 60 Tokens each other less used MVP cards are sold for 1-2 tokens at most 4 tokens. Now farming for zenny is not hard just time consuming and if a person is farming for way too long the game becomes tedious and the player loses interest and quits altogether. I talked to vera about the tower idea and she stated it is a great Idea but for the MVPs in the tower the card drop rates would have to be reduced, further more there would be 3 towers total that would allow parties of up to 4 players. Further more the MVPs would be a lot harder than normal MVPs and would require actual team co-operation to take an MVP down. You stated 3 reasons as to how you didn't like my Idea

1: economy would crash. <--Currently I see no economy, I see the same merchants in the mall day after day selling the same Items for absurd prices trying to make a living.

2: influx of new cards would completely ruin the server as a whole.<-- I do not see how, many other servers have MVP rooms and they are doing great.

3: the new players wouldn't be able to get into the tower until all of the geared players are finished with it<--With long cool downs and 3 towers everybody will get chances to enter. (they shouldn't think about entering under-geared

You have to look at it in a logical sense, Ragnarok is not like it used to be, people play for very limited times and the long quest chains to obtain items can take a lot out of someone. 1000 of an item can drive someone mad especially if they are making doubles of something L. Gauntlets for example. The amount of time and patience it takes to progress here is not for everyone and geared for people who have an extremely large ammount of time on their hands. You have that veteran mind set where where you refuse change because you are affraid of the outcome. Like post traumatic stress disorder, you leap and rage when you hear a suggestion that will change the way of your online lifestyle. I wont argue with you on the subject anymore, I already addressed vera about it. I will leave the decision up to them.

Cheers~

you have no idea what you're talking about... this server has always run off of the token system. that's the way it is and always has been zeny is not the main currency unlike most servers, which is where you're coming up with most of your problems. you're trying to make zeny the main currency which will never happen. hunting 1000 of an item is a joke compared to what it was required before by the quests, so please do not complain with the legendary quests, they are a joke. i do not refuse change i refuse the suggestion to implement 3 towers with massive numbers of MVP's allowing players to continue to go into the towers with different characters and farm mvp's. this is a horrible outcome. i know for a fact that if you implement these towers i personally will make an entire account dedicated to farming these towers. the number of mvp cards on the server will skyrocket to an absurd amount if these towers are implemented and then nothing will be worth anything because everyone already has it. your mentality is not on the same level as this server is currently that is why you cannot seem to grasp the main currency, and the reasons why this tower is a horrible idea to implement on this server.

by the way servers that have MVP rooms normally last 1-2 years maybe 3. this one has been up for a lot longer than that.

[DarthKalas]

you have no idea what you're talking about... this server has always run off of the token system. that's the way it is and always has been zeny is not the main currency unlike most servers, which is where you're coming up with most of your problems. you're trying to make zeny the main currency which will never happen. hunting 1000 of an item is a joke compared to what it was required before by the quests, so please do not complain with the legendary quests, they are a joke. i do not refuse change i refuse the suggestion to implement 3 towers with massive numbers of MVP's allowing players to continue to go into the towers with different characters and farm mvp's. this is a horrible outcome. i know for a fact that if you implement these towers i personally will make an entire account dedicated to farming these towers. the number of mvp cards on the server will skyrocket to an absurd amount if these towers are implemented and then nothing will be worth anything because everyone already has it. your mentality is not on the same level as this server is currently that is why you cannot seem to grasp the main currency, and the reasons why this tower is a horrible idea to implement on this server.

by the way servers that have MVP rooms normally last 1-2 years maybe 3. this one has been up for a lot longer than that.

You say a server that has an MVP room lasts 1-2 years? maybe 3? Time to get some milk and add that to your bowl of BS, prepare to eat up. DarkRO Force Started back in 2005 by a man named Maurice Lebon, topped the charts for 4 years, Rank #1 on Top 100. Had a fully functional MVP room, Custom stats to already existing head gears, wings that gave elemental properties to weapons, The works. The LHZ MVP mobs all dropped custom cards since the effects were deemed not worthy for the amount of trouble they took to obtain. Primary Currency was still zenny although we had an item called credits that you could gain 1 credit for every 100m zenny so you cold hold more money. Valkyrie equipment dropped by Valkyrie Randgris had been altered, giving it pretty much almost the same effects as the Forsaken Knight's gear. The armor was obtainable by 2 means MVP drop or Quest. Giving both Veterans and newcomers a chance to obtain something. A lot of the suggestions I make are influenced by this server WHICH IS STILL ALIVE TO THIS DAY! Although the Founder has stepped down he appointed a new administrator in his absence and they have been tasked with keeping the server alive. Their W.o.E had near 2k players online each day. 8 years, 8 years they have been around, 8 Years of professional grade administration, 8 years of experience. Your statement lacks experience. Your statement lacks fortitude, your statement lacks substance. I have come to the conclusion that you are the one that has no idea what you are talking about.

Cheers~

[zergling]

my question is this, if you're so obsessed with this server then why is it you're not there any longer? that server might be zeny based but this server is not. this server has been running for years on the currency of donation coupons which are now called tokens. this is a donation server, that being said this is the main currency. zeny is still needed for certain items and has been made a requirement for certain quests and can even get you some MVP's, but it will not become the main currency. sorry to tell you but you need to play on the server more to understand better the fact that zeny is stupid easy to farm here and that if people bought everything with zeny then where would people get F king sets? the donation belts? any donation gear for that matter? the main currency is tokens for a reason, everyone needs them to get the gear they want and it has been a stable currency for several years. now if the server was zeny based as the main currency then yes you could in fact be able to make zeny back into the main currency, but it's not. so i don't see the point in your bitching about it. back on topic the towers would cause a massive influx in cards and would be constantly camped by the geared players making the new players unable to even get a chance to do the tower. considering someone could just run 4 clients and use a sniper and walk up the tower with no problems at all, that makes this suggestion a bad one because you're giving them multiple MVP's that can drop cards as well as the fact that the cost for the cards are dropping in price as it is, with an increase in cards nobody will need them making them worthless. so once again i will say, this server does not need these towers to help the new players. it's not that hard to mvp, especially with the new quest gear that they can get with little to no effort. as i'm sure the older players will agree with me, it was by far harder before the knight quest came out for new players to compete, and now there are some players who are wearing a knight set and can hold their own against a donation character.

[DarthKalas]

Obsessed? I find it odd that you say I am obsessed with a server just from a mere comparison. Anyway You always talk about influx of the market, you would not know that seeing as to how you have yet to experience it first hand and witness exactly what I am trying to accomplish. I wont reply any further to your posts because you seem to keep jabbering on and on about the same thing in each post.

[Shino]

This is a suggestion, comment in a civilized way and remove the hostility or I will have to raise warn levels.

Back on Topic

Think of it this way. Every donation item is obtainable through sheer farming. One of the options to gain tokens is through selling of MVP cards. With the statements you both gave, I am assuming that the tower would be an easier way to get MVP cards compared to the normal hunt of MVP in their respective maps or the MVP room. If the price of MVPs drop by a lot, it would be harder for newer players to gain the gear they want, sure they got the mvp cards but where would they put them in? And honestly, the only MVPs now being camped is TG and High Priest MVP, so I don't really see how that plays into the discussion.

The idea is not bad, I like it since I myself is already looking for something worth doing that doesn't involve farming or PvP.

I can agree to it if:

1. card drops are decreased significantly

2. A long time delay so it wouldn't be abused.

3. Thanatos is not included in the spawns OR it is included but has no card drop.

4. one tower allows all equips, 2 of them only allow ND equips, so everyone is on equal footing.

5. We set a decent time limit for the towers, meaning you can only stay inside for X hours until you get warped out.

6. @commands are not allowed inside the tower

7. An account can only do one tower per day, meaning after doing the 1st tower, he/she still cannot try to enter the other 2 until the day resets.

[zergling]

now that i can agree with. the drop rates being reduced significantly will fix the market influx. i like the idea of no @commands and a reasonable time limit, as well as the limited 1 tower per mac address. the IP can be changed and if people have multiple accounts they can just change accounts and do the tower again. the 2 ND towers i like a lot simply because it will allow the newer players to do the towers without feeling like crap when they are partied with donation geared players.

[Genesis]

I want to completely redo endless towers and make it completely custom. :)