Balance Suggestion

[Junnichi]

Ok, well in these not so short 3 weeks of playing here, i started to notice (as trying out different classes) theres no actual balance here. Well, yes, there is a DPS balance, because of the L. Weapons, and shield for all classes, but thats really all there is.

For example, Creator is an avesome PvP/MvP char, but due to all having a ghostring card (which is worth only around 4-5 tokens and is easy to get) you WILL just miss with his most powerful skill, Acid Demo...so people just use him as a buffer for fcp? X_x

OMG, thats just a waste of class...

Second example, Gunslingers do huge damage (if i should compare to other servers) but they lack the ghost property attacks (well you can try using Cursed Water, but thats it) also they have plenty of useful skills, althrough they dont do much damage but would be useful in different situations, but GS here is still a spaming type char.

The F. Knight/King set grans Immunity to Freeze? Awesome, the most op PvP combo of Wizards goes to waste...(Storm Gust+Jupiter Thunder) so now he's just a farming char with low hp and weight limit.

Almost none play Priest class now, who needs buffs if you can get 400 stats or even 500 with donate eq, and you totally dont need a healer, because there are plenty of seeds and berrys, so why bother making one.

Stalker? Why, if you can just strip em with a sniper...(even stripped my GS which had like 294+146 dex...)

The same goes for the awesome Taekwon, he's an awesome MvP char (Taekwon Ranker), and supposedly a very good PvP, because of his Taekwon Ranker Skill, but here he doesnt even have a L.Weapon, which makes him just useless against ALL classes (even priest could own him)

So with the current balance people just play SinX (with autocast of Sonic blow, which is a K.O. when you apply an EDP bottle and even more if with all that linked to a Soul Linker), Champs (1 hit - K.O.), Snipers, LK and GS, last 2 are still not too popular though.

Im not criticizing, its just my personal view, but it just got boring, and there's really not much of a choise of classes to play, especially when all classes just gear up with the same cards/ weaps/ property.

If only someone found an equilibrium of balancing out the chars (skill-wise, not DMG) then RO will still be an awesome MMO, but for now i think imma gonna take a break, for the meanwhile

[Forum~]

right now from my experience and observations, it seems that the size of your party in pvp is proportional to the pvp balance. basically in a 1v1 situation, i must agree that the balance is pretty bad. there are certain classes that are broken with the way dps/health/weight factor in. however in a gang, balance generally smooths out as the different classes make up for the faults found in other classes.

from the way you describe the classes, it appears that you were not fully geared as the opponents you were facing or the players you were observing.

there is an endgame-tier of equipment/builds that most players settle for. it's to be expected of an mmo. also, your statements are coming from a low-rate server point of view. you must remember that fro is a high-rate, pvp-oriented server.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Forum~

[Junnichi]

well yea, maybe youre right, but still, Creators are useless...take away the FCP skill, and NO ONE will play them here...only merchants for autotrade...nothing will change the death of a class. A gank is a gank, WoE is WoE, but PvP is essential...well yes, about eq, i cant say i was fully equipped, but if you compare what a non-donator can achieve in almost 3 weeks, i say: 3 kiel, 3TG+Inca, FBH, and my GS is still crap, because even if i hit, they either have GR card, or just 1-3 hit meh, well, again we're talking about a 1vs1 or 1vs2 situation...but judging from this, if we were 10vs10, it would be the same without me...so i kind of dissagree with you in this kind of balance, also, youre not trying to solve the problem of died out classes because of THIS balance, just turn attention away from it, and thats not how its done, but oh well, not like my thought means something...

Its just not RO if you use 7 out of 15 classes, and it doesnt make a difference is it a low server or a high server...RebirthRO is a high server, and theres a lot of different classes (almost all are used, even with poor balance)

there are certain classes that are broken with the way dps/health/weight factor in. however in a gang, balance generally smooths out as the different classes make up for the faults found in other classes.

this balance is just DPS measured, not skill-wise...who spammed more - wins...

also:

from the way you describe the classes, it appears that you were not fully geared as the opponents you were facing or the players you were observing.

Okay, tell me then, how can you land a hit with a FULL Donate EQ with cards etc, using Acid Demonstration on a nab GS or SinX with GR card in armor? the answer is, you cant...because acid demo always deals neutral property dmg...

theres also something alike in the formula of Champs asura...

oh well, no use arguing.

Thank you for replying and reading my threat

Edited February 10, 2013 by Junnichi

[Veracity]

There are different strategies you can use to force people into different card combos, e.g. trying to coma people or spamming bolts on them to force them to switch to GTB so you can do more damage. Creators stunlock people with AD and have very fast spam, and when their FCP runs out you can easily break their armor and kill them. There are plenty of methods to counteract weaknesses of a class. For magic classes, you can use stave crasher. You just need to try to use strategy.

Could you please be more specific about what you're suggesting? Do you want creators to have elemental damage? Do you want people to not have Ghostring cards or for us to nerf it? Part of RO is that certain classes are good against certain classes and weak against others, some classes will have weaknesses that others do not. I'm not being critical, I just want to understand what it is that you'd like to suggest.

Really, this seems like more of a rant than a suggestion. A suggestion should include possible solutions to a problem. We would be more than happy to hear specific suggestions as to what we can do to improve class balance if you feel there is an issue with it.

[Bishop]

As you've stated, you've only played here for about 3 weeks. There is no way you could've seen all balance and have tried all classes with all fair and equal gears. And there's a lot of things I'll have to disagree with as well.

For example, Creator is an avesome PvP/MvP char, but due to all having a ghostring card (which is worth only around 4-5 tokens and is easy to get) you WILL just miss with his most powerful skill, Acid Demo...so people just use him as a buffer for fcp? X_x

With our custom items (weapons especially) creators are given alternate ways to fight as well. Mamonite and bolts for example. If you got decent gears and know how to play it it can actually be strong in pvp.

Creators are useless...take away the FCP skill, and NO ONE will play them here...only merchants for autotrade...nothing will change the death of a class.

I highly highly doubt this. As for one, I would still play it.

GS. The gunslinger class was intended by Gravity to be a glass cannon class. Therefore their damage is higher than most classes and survivability a tad lower. A lot of classes lack ghost elemental attacks. Cursed water gives shadow, not ghost. and there's a lot of other elemental converters that work out fite.

Immunity to freeze. Without immunity to freeze some classes such as champion would be overpowered and trust me , Wizards really don't need the freeze/JT combo to win on this server.

Priest - Unfortunately I do have to agree with you on most of the priest stuff and I'd love to hear solutions to this problem other than removing the seeds/yggs as that's not a viable option with the current damage output in this server.

Stalker - Stalkers strip easier than sniper and can strip all at once, instead of 1 part at a time + they are a lot more survivable and versatile than the sniper.

Taekwons - I don't think you're very familiar with the taekwon class in general. They get boosts by not using a weapon because they never were intended to use a weapon. The taekwon ranker is mostly a tanking class and a semi-damage dealer and it can be with the speed you can spam the kicks at.

So with the current balance people just play SinX

Sinx is not used very often in serious PvP. Autocast sonicblow is never really used on sinx, it's more manual sonic blow builds than autocast. It really depends which person you fight whether you need 1 or multiple hits. Besides that sonicblow can be countered and reflected.

LK and GS, last 2 are still not too popular though.

Wait..what ? LK and GS are pretty much the most played PvP classes at this current moment so really not sure what this is about.

especially when all classes just gear up with the same cards/ weaps/ property.

Partly true, partly untrue. However wouldn't this only improve the choice of classes that you can play without having to restart completely on gears?

[Rayray]

to topic starter, have you seen my damage as a creator? this is coming from someone who main the Creator class. The Acid Demonstration skill NEEDS to be a neutral element skill, if it follows the element of the weapon(meaning using BOS changes my acid demo skill's element) I will kill everyone in the server within a few spams. I deal around 2k-2.5k Acid demo against people just using GR armor and shield. I deal more depending on class. that is a lot of damage if you ask me.

on GS- desperado deals around 3x-10x hit randomly at 11k - 12k damage using legendary gun. put a ghost element in there and you effectively x2 his damage output. too OP considering desperado is easy to spam.

immunity on freeze- I agree on bishop, all champs will go garm then, and using unfrozen card makes your armor lose the tao gunka which still makes you one hit against champs.

Priest- holy light right now wasn't as spammable as before, that's why there are a few pvp priest and the only battle priest i know quit(Xtopher)

Stalker- stalker was a strong class to begin with, it is the wild card because it can copy trans skills here. not sure where you are getting at about it

taekwons- what bishop said is what I had in mind, and there are a few good Star Gladiators and there were once 3 great soul linkers. just cant find them now

Sinx- i havent seen much people use sinx to pvp now, mostly they just break. and some people don't really know how to use a Katar sinx that it makes me sad.

LK- O_O i've seen tons of LK, what are you talking about?

I'm not even fully geared as a Creator yet,. if you want, you can try and find me and see for yourself

P.S you seriously haven't used the Creator class much have you? since you compared creator vs sinx. I frankly have one of the easiest time against sinx since they cant afford to go dual weapons/katar on me or else they die.

Edited February 10, 2013 by ZerO25

[Terroryst]

I think GS is fine, seeing as how large the area of effect of Desperado is, it's tough just getting to the damn GS. Throw in a lesser elemental ring and you're definitely going to have a lot of trouble touching him lol.

Immunity to freeze is definitely needed due to that exact fact of the OP combo. Not just that, but with how easy it is to get a SK card? There would definitely be a LOT of frustration. Also, like zero said, freeze asuras. Never fun.

There really is no purpose to Priests. Sure they can Holy Light, if they get a soul link. Which can be easily dispelled. Sure they got stave crasher which might hit for 20k or so if you're good, but how much HP will you have? I've been playing battle priest and the only thing I have to rely on is my asura which sometimes never even shows up in a duel and I just stop attacking due to how long it takes. Sure there's coma, at a .1%. However, only reason I do play this is because asuraing someone in the face with a priest and killing them is always funny.

Stalker is rape in the new arena if they don't have a friendly neighborhood FCPer. I think stalker is fine the way it is, it's just that everybody plays it the exact same way which is so very dull.

Taekwons were never meant for greatness here lol.

I see a decent amount of sinx's idk what you're talking about. Even though they all use the same build, they're there.

LK? The most OP class in FRO, you seriously don't see any?

Creator is definitely fine where they stand at right now, what with the magic spam if you're not taking enough AD damage and the AD damage if you have a GTB on.

[Tango]

Ok, well in these not so short 3 weeks of playing here, i started to notice (as trying out different classes) theres no actual balance here. Well, yes, there is a DPS balance, because of the L. Weapons, and shield for all classes, but thats really all there is.

For example, Creator is an avesome PvP/MvP char, but due to all having a ghostring card (which is worth only around 4-5 tokens and is easy to get) you WILL just miss with his most powerful skill, Acid Demo...so people just use him as a buffer for fcp? X_x

OMG, thats just a waste of class...

Second example, Gunslingers do huge damage (if i should compare to other servers) but they lack the ghost property attacks (well you can try using Cursed Water, but thats it) also they have plenty of useful skills, althrough they dont do much damage but would be useful in different situations, but GS here is still a spaming type char.

The F. Knight/King set grans Immunity to Freeze? Awesome, the most op PvP combo of Wizards goes to waste...(Storm Gust+Jupiter Thunder) so now he's just a farming char with low hp and weight limit.

Almost none play Priest class now, who needs buffs if you can get 400 stats or even 500 with donate eq, and you totally dont need a healer, because there are plenty of seeds and berrys, so why bother making one.

Stalker? Why, if you can just strip em with a sniper...(even stripped my GS which had like 294+146 dex...)

The same goes for the awesome Taekwon, he's an awesome MvP char (Taekwon Ranker), and supposedly a very good PvP, because of his Taekwon Ranker Skill, but here he doesnt even have a L.Weapon, which makes him just useless against ALL classes (even priest could own him)

So with the current balance people just play SinX (with autocast of Sonic blow, which is a K.O. when you apply an EDP bottle and even more if with all that linked to a Soul Linker), Champs (1 hit - K.O.), Snipers, LK and GS, last 2 are still not too popular though.

Im not criticizing, its just my personal view, but it just got boring, and there's really not much of a choise of classes to play, especially when all classes just gear up with the same cards/ weaps/ property.

If only someone found an equilibrium of balancing out the chars (skill-wise, not DMG) then RO will still be an awesome MMO, but for now i think imma gonna take a break, for the meanwhile

Hi! First off I would like to say welcome to fRo and I am sorry for any inconvience you are having with our classes but I assure you we are very balanced when it comes to PvP and I will explain why.

- As you stated for the creator class. Creators currently are very powerful. They can stun lock player with Acid Demo for it is highly spammable here. You stated we have the easily obtainable Ghostring card which is true but it does not make Creators miss it only reduces the amount of damage they do which in turn creators can use their L.Weap/Jorg/Fireblend to bolt them. The trick to Creators is to ruse the opponent into switching armors/cloaks so you do respectable damage.

- Gunslingers with their skills. A lot of players overlook the utility of all of their skills when it comes to Gunslingers but that still doesn't diminish their power in PvP. Gunslingers can use Rapid Fire to create loads of damage on an opponent and when they penuma the Gunslinger can use Desperado. In combination with the Assassin Cross card Gunslingers are a force to be feared.

-The immunity to freeze is something that balances out other classes, as well as Wizards. Wizards excel using AoE magic spells, that is what makes them terrifying. If we didn't have the immunity to freeze Champions would be completely overpowered. A frozen asura is not a fun asura.

-As for priests go, it is a class that is overlooked. But iirc I see 2 priests actively playing on the server currently (MARV3L and Adorable) I am not too sure how well they do in pvp but I see them playing quite a bit so the class isn't totally forgotten. Ever since their holy light skill was nerfed in terms of being spammable their 1v1 potential has decreased but they still play a great support role.

-Stalkers have their Copy skill which makes them versatile as well as their Stalk ability that outranks Cloak. They are a great class to play as. Plus their strip isn't relied on autoattacking.

-As for TKs having a L.Weap, they do more damage without a weapon equipped. Try it out sometime, I'm sure you won't be disappointed. :)

As for the server as a whole I believe we are very balanced, you just haven't had the chance to try out all of the classes on equal ground, because like you said you have only been here for 3 weeks.

[Terroryst]

Only thing I have to say about TKs is that the list should be reset every now and then, but that's another suggestion which has already been suggested and pretty sure it was accepted.

[Junnichi]

Well, firstly there's so much different info from all of you that i cant even respond to all, so i will make it short ;)

Creator:

yes you can use bolts or other skills, you can stunlock targets with acid demo, but as i remember Gravity made acid demo a neutral dmg skill at all times, so that wont change. Well removing GR card would make them op, but its not about removing it, well on most servers cards such as Ghostring and Angeling are at about the same price and rarity as useful MvP cards. So I think if its drop chance would be lowered it wouldve been harder to get and that would allow variable other combinations, but 90% of people already have them, so i dont think it will change something now.

Priest:

Well for Priest its kinda hard, because to make him useful, you'd need to change his healing rate to one more suitable for the server (well people have 150+ k HP, but he's bat at healing, so useless) and for example make the buff npc only buff you till 150LVL or for zeny (around 200k for buff, though i'd suggest no buffs after 150), this would at least make him needed and playable by a few people.

and as for priest im not talking about PvP, just to make him more useful in those not 1vs1 fights

Gunslinger:

well someone here said that desperado has a large range, so LOL, theyre range is 7x7 but that doesnt mean 7 in each direction, its only 3 (youre at the center) also it randomes and i almost never see it hit more than 4-5 times with 1 desperado...well even with this you could nerf some damage output but its a fail when you just miss out on a target, because of ghostring, but yes you can equip other ammo (and hit them at 100% dmg), well when facing a sniper or stalker he will just lock you and hit x2 so who will die faster when he hits you x2 and you hit him x1? though this also depends on strategies, but personally i think, its a miss, as there are different property arrows, there are no bullets only fire,water,wind,earth,holy and neutral

Wizard:

Dont say that Asura is not fun, you have a lot of ways to counter freeze status, and with the set items you just make people use the same builds because of 1 good est option.....

you can easily counter Freeze status, for example:

To assist in recovering from Freeze:

• Getting hit automatically cancels the effect.
• Priest's skill Status Recovery can undo the effect.
• Swordman's skill Provoke cancels effect.
• Scholar's skill Mind Breaker cancels effect.
• Having high hard MDEF and LUK will reduce amount of time this ailment affects you, as well as chance of being affected.
• One of Battle Chant's random effects removes all abnormal status effects from party members, including Frozen. However it can't remove the frozen status from the paladin itself since it can't cast any skill as long as he/she is frozen.
• One of Battle Chant's random effects grants 60 seconds of immunity to all status effects to party members, including Frozen status.
• Dispell removes this ailment.
• Mercenary's skill Tender can undo the effect.

Card effects:

• Evil Druid Card grants elemental immunity.
• Marc Card grants immunity.
• Megalodon Card increases resistance by 20%.
• Detardeus Card grants immunity.

Equipments:

• Diabolus Ring increases resistance by 15%.
• Dark Bacilium increases resistance by 20% + 2%*upgrade.
• Winter Hat increases resistance by 10%.
• Note Headphone increases resistance by 10%.
• Meteo Plate Armor increases resistance by 30%.

And finally, yes the server is balanced out quite good, comparing to other servers i've seen for the past 6 years that i played RO, its one of the most interesting (espesially with the storyline setting), but some minor issues just pile up and then it gets kinda boring

Edited February 10, 2013 by Junnichi

[Terroryst]

I think that the skills that cancel the effects, such as Provoke or Status Recovery, should Prevent them instead. Give them a skill duration and have it prevent the freeze status effect. That way they can be dispelled and can be worked around. Just a thought.

[kaosed]

i kinda agree with creator being underdog. well, gr + frigg & usakoring + 2 raydric + redux wing+combat knife, cut ur acid demo damage a lot.. On pvp spam aciddemo and hope they armor break before they kill ya. or switch to magic attack with low damage.

Beside that, homonculus bugged in here. on other server, homonculus give lots aid on pvp

For champ, they used to be 1 hit 1 kill for most char and being the last defender on emp room, but using same gear as mention above, even a proff/wiz can handle asura. champ todays too much depend on priest to double damage. or go tss way that can only spam by low pinger.

for wizard pvp on gtb user, all they can do is stave crasher. but how much damage u can deal with that? 20-30k each? then again, wizz hp kinda low. they get killed before they can spam it. besides, that skill depends on agi&dex. wasting lots of stats.

usually wizard can kill jobs that using 2 hand, but in fro? every job using 1hand with shield.

ps : have u seen any wiz jobs used for laddering on pvp? just my 2 cent.

Edited February 15, 2013 by kaosed

[Terroryst]

You have definitely nont been playing Champ right if that's what you think. Also, how many people do you see running around with all of those reducts on? Do you know how little they would do to you?

[zxcv]

Ok a late reply is a late reply but here is a stalker's POV:

Creators:If you got troubles with your acid demo, you can turn it around with your blob's bolts.

Taekwons: not much to say but soul linkers are useless and star glads are op with the invurnerable FSK (with good ping and equips)

Freezing: So do you want me to freeze you so all day so I can have all the time in the world to strip you?

Gunslingers: they are very pricey class but once with sin x card you are op as fk. (IMHO)

Lk : this is why I quit most servers. The developers just cant handle their OPness.

Priest: Use this class if you wanna ragequit. Tell your friends to 1 v1 then use Basilica.

Sniper: yeah they are good here. But you cannot troll with traps and Falcon assault..

My class (stalker) : Man your late when this was OP in defense. but for now this class is stable. But as I say this class is still not versatile because of less choices of skills (no melee sword/dagger style here)

As what Vera said, It would have been a good thread IF YOU SUGGESTED SOME SOLUTIONS. It also looks like a QQ thread to me.

Thats all I can say. Good day.

[Veracity]

We will take this into consideration, thank you for your suggestion, and to everyone who shared their thoughts on the subject.