Fbh(Fallen Bishop Hibram) Card On Professor

[Leo `D]

yes as Zer025 said :D

you can't worry about the eco bcause its ruin already because of Uber Poporing

[Shadi]

Hmm if fbh's effect +5 matk.. Then no one will use silver fbh.. Everyone gonna choose fbh, so I think it makes sense that it will ruin silver fbh eco;)

So basically you're saying silver FBH should be better than regular FBH because else silver fbh's eco would get bad ? That makes no sense at all. Silver mvp cards are supposed to have half the effect of the real cards. They should NOT be better. If you want to keep silver as it is then that's fine with me. But lets make the silver actually 50% of the effect like it should be then. That means giving FBH the 10% back. Which will probably cause more people to complain, hence why it was suggested to make it even to the silver(read weaker) version of the card. Edited November 28, 2012 by Shadi

[Rayray]

also, the reason silver mvps are made is for those newbies that cant hunt real mvps yet. so i dont see any harm really.

[zergling]

that's exactly right the cards were made for newbies. if you're going to play a prof and you use silver FBH you will have 10% matk bonus and 50% demi human damage bonus. if you use uber poporing you only get 10% matk bonus and 20% demi human damage. regardless the silver FBH are better simply because you have the 50% demi human damage instead of the 20 or whatever. also if the 5% matk is given to the FBH it's going to make the market completely nulled for silver FBH period. you have to take the market into account because small edits can have a big impact on the entire market.

[Shadi]

that's exactly right the cards were made for newbies. if you're going to play a prof and you use silver FBH you will have 10% matk bonus and 50% demi human damage bonus. if you use uber poporing you only get 10% matk bonus and 20% demi human damage. regardless the silver FBH are better simply because you have the 50% demi human damage instead of the 20 or whatever. also if the 5% matk is given to the FBH it's going to make the market completely nulled for silver FBH period. you have to take the market into account because small edits can have a big impact on the entire market.

You really don't get it do you -.-..... For MAGIC CLASSES the current SILVER FBH is better than the REAL FBH. This is NOT the way it's supposed to be. the SILVER mvp cards are supposed to have HALF the effect from the REAL FBH. We are NOT comparing silver fbh to uber poporing we're comparing silver FBH to the REAL fbh. Silver FBH giving 5% matk. and the REAL one gives 0% <--- See the difference. SILVER is better than the REAL one for magic users because the additional damage % to demi human does NOT work for magic skills. Hence why MATK is added to the fbh cards in the first place.

It is retarded to hide behind the "it will kill the silver fbh market" excuse. because 1: there hardly is a market for it. 2: The card is NOT SUPPOSED to be better than the real FBH so if there's a market for them it would only be based on the fact that this somewhat forgotten nerf was applied and because the card is unrightfully/unintentionally better than the card it was inspired by.

[zergling]

the real FBH card was nerfed for mage classes for a reason. they deal too much damage against classes that don't roll 80% demi resist and with the fact that 3 kiels makes their spam really damn fast the fact that they are able to achieve such high matk with the un nerfed FBH cards it was becoming a serious problem. this is the reason that it was nerfed in the first place.

[Rayray]

^ fbh is nerfed only on profs. it works really well on my creator and wizard.

[Leo `D]

that's exactly right the cards were made for newbies. if you're going to play a prof and you use silver FBH you will have 10% matk bonus and 50% demi human damage bonus. if you use uber poporing you only get 10% matk bonus and 20% demi human damage. regardless the silver FBH are better simply because you have the 50% demi human damage instead of the 20 or whatever. also if the 5% matk is given to the FBH it's going to make the market completely nulled for silver FBH period. you have to take the market into account because small edits can have a big impact on the entire market.

Sir

the only think that Silver FBH and Uber Poporing is for Matk Atk only, and for better Melee or Normal Skills is for FBH, you still need to swtch boots, and I am saying "why" not making the FBH 5% Matk for Prof instead of nerfing and remain 1 Boots your using.

Silver FBH and Uber Poporing is for Matk only since they both gives 5% Matk , you do not use this in Melee or Normal Skill damage

Silver FBH - Eco of this card is not worth much coz you can use Uber Poporing (much way cheaper) so what is the use of eco on this Silver FBH when i can use Uber Poporing.

the real FBH card was nerfed for mage classes for a reason. they deal too much damage against classes that don't roll 80% demi resist and with the fact that 3 kiels makes their spam really damn fast the fact that they are able to achieve such high matk with the un nerfed FBH cards it was becoming a serious problem. this is the reason that it was nerfed in the first place.

Sir its only for Professor,

were not talking here to return the original stats of the FBH card, were suggesting just to make it 5% Matk like Silver FBH and Uber Poporing

[7lovestories]

then i suggest to remove the silver cards so there will be no more argument about the FBH and the Silver FBH, without silver fbh theres still uber poporing as an alternative.

[thePast]

^The silver card quest has just been added and now you want it to be removed again? :|

[Shadi]

the real FBH card was nerfed for mage classes for a reason. they deal too much damage against classes that don't roll 80% demi resist and with the fact that 3 kiels makes their spam really damn fast the fact that they are able to achieve such high matk with the un nerfed FBH cards it was becoming a serious problem. this is the reason that it was nerfed in the first place.

1: The damage before had to get lowered due to the spam rate (BN users etc). The spam rate now requires more kiels than before. Unless you use all your headgear slots for kiels and/or give up 1 maybe even 2 accesories you will not be able to obtain the same spam as before. This leaves professors extremely vurnerable or render them to have lower dps.

2: You will NOT notice any damage difference if you give this boost to fbh. Why ? because people atm are already using silver fbh or uber poporing to get the 5% and since the demi human % effect does not work for magic skills the damage with them using fbh or uberpoporing would be the exact same. The only difference you'd notice is a small increase to the stave crasher damage which is actually even suggested in a different topic and seems to be agreed with by the majority.

then i suggest to remove the silver cards so there will be no more argument about the FBH and the Silver FBH, without silver fbh theres still uber poporing as an alternative.

.... Silver FBH is not only used by professors. It's also used by newer people to play physical damage dealing classes. You can't jusy remove the silver cards. They're a great way for newer players to gear up.

So basically what we're having here is that obviously it's fair that melee classes get a 100% damage bonus in exchange of -100% base sp. And it's also fair that magic classes get 0% damage bonus in exchange to -100% base SP. That makes a lot of sense. We're not asking to change it back to 10% we're asking to make it on-par with silver fbh matk wise. Besides the new spam rate is way way slower than the old one. So the average dps from professor has already dropped significantly.

[zergling]

use... silver... fbh.... on a mage... you're complaining about the matk but if prof want a matk boost then they can use silver FBH because they get the matk boost and they don't lose as much SP. it's fine as it is and it doesn't need changing. you guys are complaining about having to swap 1 set of shoes. seriously it's not hard to use battlemode and swap a full gear set stop trying to get everything handed to you. you're not 5 years old learn to really play with battlemode and swap gears if you need to. if you're going to use bolts use silver FBH or uber poporing. if you're going to use stave use normal FBH. stop trying to get useless changes made because you don't know how to swap fast enough.

[Leo `D]

Lol I can switch fast enough, but the problem is all my Battle Mode slots are occupied and my Boots is on the right and my Primary are in Magics so it was Left Hand

If you're using Professor Class all skill must be used

And its not a complain i am only suggesting, you guys are too over reacting to the suggestion, and saying about the economy that's not worth much and giving boost to the Professor (Lol) its only 5% same as Uber and Silver, the only disadvantage is having 100% reduction to SP you can have a 5000SP left if your max Int and full geared.

[Shadi]

use... silver... fbh.... on a mage... you're complaining about the matk but if prof want a matk boost then they can use silver FBH because they get the matk boost and they don't lose as much SP. it's fine as it is and it doesn't need changing. you guys are complaining about having to swap 1 set of shoes. seriously it's not hard to use battlemode and swap a full gear set stop trying to get everything handed to you. you're not 5 years old learn to really play with battlemode and swap gears if you need to. if you're going to use bolts use silver FBH or uber poporing. if you're going to use stave use normal FBH. stop trying to get useless changes made because you don't know how to swap fast enough.

I've never mentioned that I support this suggestion because I don't want to switch boots. Switching boots has nothing but literally nothing to do with my intentions of supporting this suggestion. The reason why I agree with this is because it's logical and rational thinking that silver FBH should in no circumstances be better than the real FBH. Nowhere in this topic have I seen one legit arguement from you why it shouldn't be accepted other than "l2play and go swap boots" which makes no sense. I don't even play a bolter prof yet I agree with this suggestion entirely based on the fact that FBH's have a huge downside but the bonus it gives to physical damage dealers is many many times higher than the bonus it gives to magic users (profs in this case). Compare 100% extra damage to 0% extra damage. Adding up with the changed spam rate, this gives physical damage dealers an even bigger advantage over magic damage dealers. Now for all other magic classes this is no problem because the fbh actually gives the full 10% effect for them. However for profs it's 0% meaning the only reason you'd wear it is for stave crasher. At all other times uber poporing would be on so damage wise it would be EXACTLY the same except for the stave crasher skill.

All in all bolter profs atm are insanely easy to counter as gtb blocks all magic and their stave damage would never be high enough to kill someone that pays a little bit of attention to his hp. The ONLY thing this suggestion would do is boost up the stave crasher damage a bit. Nothing more than that. What's so bad about that? It's actually agreed upon by a majority in a different topic to boost the damage of this skill anyway. This would be a fair way to do it.

Also nobody in this topic is complaining. Something has been suggested and is now being discussed. How is any of this complaining? It's merely stating facts and backing up the arguement. Please if you want to back up your arguement come up with something else than a "l2play". that's not a valid arguement. At least not one that counters any of mine.

[zergling]

okay lets put it this way. a prof using a decent damage build can pull 90k+ in bolts. a good prof will be able to kill you before you put maya or GTB on if they are dealing that much damage. the fact that their spam was reduced slightly doesn't mean shit because my prof still spams fast with 3 kiels, so your argument about the reduced spam is null and void. the reason that the FBH was nerfed in the first place was because of the damage they were able to pull which is still an issue. as far as the FBH being better than the silver FBH, IT IS which is why you see almost all classes using the real FBH and not the silver only prof or wizards use the silver FBH simply because of the matk it gives. since when do you see a prof using stave crasher? never. they don't use stave because they know the damage is low even with 2 FBH cards it's low. if a decent prof walks up to you and spams on you with 2 silver FBH cards they will kill you unless you're a stalker with 80% demi resist or you main GTB. as far as the stave crasher is concerned if the prof knows anything they will use stave crasher with the silver FBH on and wait for the target to swap to usk and then just finish them with bolts. it's not like any other class can deal as much damage as a prof can in such a short period of time other than a champ which all you need is ghostring to tank it which everyone mains 24/7. a prof is a glass cannon that's what they do they spam and hope you don't put on GTB or maya. they don't need to deal the damage they currently deal AND have the increased stave crasher damage with the buff that stave is getting they don't need the +100% demi damage. it forces the prof to pick stave or bolts not get the best of both worlds simply because they are able to use a physical skill that changes element unlike any other class(with the exception of biochemist and super novice) who get to use physical attacks and bolts at the same time, but even then the other classes such as biochemist cannot change the element of acid demonstration it's always neutral and if you use GTB+GR they can't deal any damage that's worth bothering with. as for a prof they can change the element of the stave crasher so they don't need to be using neutral 24/7 and can eventually force usk or the target will run out of supplies.

is that enough of an argument for you? now then as i said before stop bitching about it and just swap shoes if you're going to use stave like everyone else.

[Leo `D]

Lol this guy dont understand,

1. FBH nerf on Professor only see the description of the card, and the suggestion if Making the card 5% Matk damage other than making it 0% Matk

2. Using magic attacks you equipped with 2(two) Silver FBH or Uber Poporing to gain 10% Matk, 5% on each card, by doing magic attacks people switch to Gtb or Maya and when that happen Professor switch boots to 2(two) FBH to gain 100% damage to Demi-Human and used skill of Stave Crusher (This is the only Normal Damaging skill Professor used)

3 . Instead of having 2(two) Boots in switching why not changing the FBH from 0% Matk to 5% Matk its just the same of of having 2 Silver FBH or Uber Poporing only the thing is Professor will get 100% reduction to SP, disadvantage of having Low SP is you will get easily drain it because of Energy Coat and you will spam Seed to remain in Energy Coat.

4. Battle Mode is not hard since I used all keys in Battle Mode but, its not so Easy to you can understand that when Switching or Using Skill by reaching other keys by only left hand. or leaving mouse to use right hand (I don't have Macro Keyboard or Mouse - can be by at computer outlets)

5. Economy of Silver FBH(In your concern) is not worth so much.

Edited November 30, 2012 by Leo `D

[zergling]

i have used battlemode since i started playing RO and i don't have a macro keyboard either but it's not hard to swap a full set of gears you need to learn how. stave crasher changes element so you have to pick which you want to do, spam bolts or use stave crasher. swapping shoes is easy and painless this is a pointless edit that will do nothing but waste time because from what it looks like you simply don't like to swap shoes.

[Jettison]

Well as far as I'm convinced by reading some of the posts, and the topic, this suggestion is only to lessen the use of BATTLEMODE.

-1 on this.

[zergling]

^ thank you

[Shadi]

okay lets put it this way. a prof using a decent damage build can pull 90k+ in bolts. a good prof will be able to kill you before you put maya or GTB on if they are dealing that much damage. the fact that their spam was reduced slightly doesn't mean shit because my prof still spams fast with 3 kiels, so your argument about the reduced spam is null and void. the reason that the FBH was nerfed in the first place was because of the damage they were able to pull which is still an issue. as far as the FBH being better than the silver FBH, IT IS which is why you see almost all classes using the real FBH and not the silver only prof or wizards use the silver FBH simply because of the matk it gives. since when do you see a prof using stave crasher? never. they don't use stave because they know the damage is low even with 2 FBH cards it's low. if a decent prof walks up to you and spams on you with 2 silver FBH cards they will kill you unless you're a stalker with 80% demi resist or you main GTB. as far as the stave crasher is concerned if the prof knows anything they will use stave crasher with the silver FBH on and wait for the target to swap to usk and then just finish them with bolts. it's not like any other class can deal as much damage as a prof can in such a short period of time other than a champ which all you need is ghostring to tank it which everyone mains 24/7. a prof is a glass cannon that's what they do they spam and hope you don't put on GTB or maya. they don't need to deal the damage they currently deal AND have the increased stave crasher damage with the buff that stave is getting they don't need the +100% demi damage. it forces the prof to pick stave or bolts not get the best of both worlds simply because they are able to use a physical skill that changes element unlike any other class(with the exception of biochemist and super novice) who get to use physical attacks and bolts at the same time, but even then the other classes such as biochemist cannot change the element of acid demonstration it's always neutral and if you use GTB+GR they can't deal any damage that's worth bothering with. as for a prof they can change the element of the stave crasher so they don't need to be using neutral 24/7 and can eventually force usk or the target will run out of supplies.

is that enough of an argument for you? now then as i said before stop bitching about it and just swap shoes if you're going to use stave like everyone else.

Anyone with only usakoring fshield/frigs will reduce bolts from a FULL MATK prof to lower than that, not a single professor bolts me with 9k hits as long as I have only a shield on..... Also you don't seem to be very fast with changing your own gear then. That's a pity for you but others do manage to easily switch when being bolt spammed. The fact that their spam is way slower now in not in ANY way null or void. They require MORE delay reduction than before, this leaves them vurnerable to status effects which is a very very easy way to kill them or they have to greatly reduce their damage by removing their int accessories for expert rings. You have to use your brain when fighting in pvp not go for pure damage all the time like you seem to want to. Use your brain and use the advantages you have against classes. Certainly against profs it is amazingly easy to kill them when you consider the gears they need to use to actually have somewhat decent spam.

The reason FBH was nerfed was because with the previous spam rate and BN usage the damage was too high. Now however that is obviously changed.

as far as the FBH being better than the silver FBH, IT IS which is why you see almost all classes using the real FBH and not the silver only prof or wizards use the silver FBH simply because of the matk it gives. since when do you see a prof using stave crasher? never. they don't use stave because they know the damage is low even with 2 FBH cards it's low.

I lol'd so hard. Yes FBH is better in general. Stop changing my words. I said Silver FBH is better for MAGIC classes(only prof in this case) compared to the real FBH and that the Silver FBH should in no situation outshine the real FBH. And thank you for just pointing out that there's exactly no reason whatsoever not to implement this. As Matk% stays exactly the same as it is right now with people using silver fbh insted of fbh. And the only thing it changes is some stave crasher damage and like you just stated , stave crasher at the moment doesn't kill anything.

as far as the stave crasher is concerned if the prof knows anything they will use stave crasher with the silver FBH on and wait for the target to swap to usk and then just finish them with bolts

You are really contradicting yourself. First you say the damage Stave crasher does is very low, then you say people should use stave crasher (on silver fbh which is even lower damage than regular fbh) and wait for the person to swap to usk? Who on earth would swap to usk when all the prof can do is weak hits with stave crasher as mentioned by yourself in the previous quote?

it forces the prof to pick stave or bolts not get the best of both worlds simply because they are able to use a physical skill that changes element unlike any other class

Wait what ? Any class can use element scrolls for their physical skills except for the skills with static neutral attribute such as asura. So obviously the "unlike any other class" is far far from the truth. Take star gladiator for example they can change elements without any item use. So how are profs able to 'change element unlike any other class' with their physical skill ? Every single person can use elemental scrolls and get the exact same effect.

and can eventually force usk or the target will run out of supplies.

One second you say professor's are glass cannons the next you say profs should battle until the target runs out of supplies? You should know glass cannons means that you should burst down your enemy in one big damage burst if you do not succeed in that it means you pretty much lost since your survivability will be crap. Hence the "glass" in cannon. Glass is easy to break/destroy. So you want the socalled 'glass cannon' now to outlast the enemy and make them run out of supplies ? If profs really should be glass cannons like you say so then how would they outlast enemies? The whole purpose of glass cannons are to NOT stall the fight till one runs out of supplies. Because they will lose this battle.

is that enough of an argument for you? now then as i said before stop bitching about it and just swap shoes if you're going to use stave like everyone else.

Please stop raging just because people don't agree with your statements. Again nobody in here is bitching, it's called discussing. If you can't handle a single discussion then please don't go to the suggestion section on the forums. This section is here to DISCUSS the suggestions made.

Again I'll repeat it since you obviously missed it, I do NOT support this suggestion based on the swapping, I don't give a damn about gearswapping as it's easy to do and like I said I don't even play a bolter prof because they're so extremely easy to beat if you actually use your brain :) I'm just here for the sake of balance and mainly for the fact that it's rediculous that a silver mvp card in this case outshines the card it's supposed to be a 'weaker version' from.

Well as far as I'm convinced by reading some of the posts, and the topic, this suggestion is only to lessen the use of BATTLEMODE.

-1 on this.

You might want to stop skipping my posts then. Edited December 1, 2012 by Shadi

[Jettison]

I wouldn't read this ^ post, still a -1 on this suggestion. /gg

[zergling]

^ LOL pretty much the way i'm looking at it. a huge wall of text that nobody is going to read lol. in any case the FBH card change is only going to be for less hotkeys which is the most retarted excuse of a change i have heard of. -1 still

[Leo `D]

yeah a simple minded person will not get able to understand it, too bad, you wouldn't able to understand if you don't play professor classes.

[thePast]

I wouldn't read this ^ post, still a -1 on this suggestion.

^ LOL pretty much the way i'm looking at it. a huge wall of text that nobody is going to read lol. in any case the FBH card change is only going to be for less hotkeys which is the most retarted excuse of a change i have heard of. -1 still

This proves that you guys are here just to troll and disagree to everything w/o any proper explanation...

[zergling]

we have already given our reasons and they are legit so why are we going to continue to argue about something that's being suggested to reduce the number of hotkeys a professor has to use? i have used a professor for a number of years and have had no trouble with the battlemode so it's not an issue.