Regarding Creator's Bottles

[Rayray]

I'm not sure if it was suggested before and shut down but I am wondering why the Acid and Fire Bottles of Creators aren't infinite like Sniper's arrows or Gunslinger's bullets. I know zeny is easy to come buy, and i believe the price for it was already reduced compared to before. But I see no harm of making them infinite. might even encourage others to play the class.

So in summary, I am suggesting that the fire and acid bottles become unlimited like the arrows and bullets. if it was suggested and disapproved before, could you please tell me why?

Oh and if you disagree with the suggestion I would love to see why.

[Mint]

I disagree because Acid Bomb has a fast spam rate, and it can hold you in place. The price of bottles as it is now discourages players from spamming it for long periods of time, including the fact that the supply is finite.

[masterneil]

i agree zero, make creator bottles like arrows:D

and mint i disagree you , cause i think acid bottles got high price and its easyliy spam so its easily finish

:D

maybe its a really good suggestion from zero, i just remember it xD

hahahaha

[zergling]

i agree with mint the spam is extremely fast not to mention the damage it causes if they are not wearing GR+raydrics. all that on top of the fact that you need to have FCP and the slight chance you don't your armor is broken and then it's instant death. the spam rate is really high and it can flinch lock someone in place, it also gives people a chance to get away if they run out of bottles and have to pull more from their cart.

[thePast]

Hmm, i'm not sure but i think this have been suggested before.

Click me

But instead of making it unlimited, they decide to make the cost lower? :\

[Rayray]

lol it was also me that suggested it 2 years ago, someone suggested it in 2009 too (supream i think) keep in mind that when I did that suggestion, the elite weapons weren't fully out yet(i remember only a few has it, and fdaggers costs 100 tokens each) so people disagree because their weapons can be broken as well as armor.. my suggestion was accepted(made it 10k from 20k). I do see mint's point(after using creator for a few days) that it does flinch enemies a lot, but it's not the only skill that does it(well AD is the easiest to flinch enemies with, a close second is Spiral)

however,with everyone's reducts now, without the valk weapon the highest you would do to someone is 3k-5k per hit if they are wearing shields and you have broken their armor.. AD is easily reduced by wearing gr and shield( you would hit 1k or less against people with that) and I would be astounded if someone goes pvp without fcp or at least an extra RSX-GR armor. having 2 armors is more or less mandatory nowadays.

so thanks for the input guys, I just wanted to know if people would want this suggestion, since after playing it, I noticed that every time I try to pvp, I go hunt Stone of sages after, and well call me lazy but I already farm for my own seeds/berries, so i hate farming for AD too :p

I do wish to hear from people who use creators too. i have only seen Rusty Trombone use it to ladder(and he got all the gears I want for a creator O_O). i wanted to hear from the creators who aren't super rich on what they think. for me, I'm ok with the price(might just be lazy that is why i try this longshot of a suggestion) since it stops everyone using creator. but on the other hand, i would love to see some more creators trying to pvp, and not as fcp slaves.

Edited September 22, 2012 by ZerO25

[Amicable]

lol it was also me that suggested it 2 years ago, someone suggested it in 2009 too (supream i think) keep in mind that when I did that suggestion, the elite weapons weren't fully out yet(i remember only a few has it, and fdaggers costs 100 tokens each) so people disagree because their weapons can be broken as well as armor.. my suggestion was accepted(made it 10k from 20k). I do see mint's point(after using creator for a few days) that it does flinch enemies a lot, but it's not the only skill that does it(well AD is the easiest to flinch enemies with, a close second is Spiral)

however,with everyone's reducts now, without the valk weapon the highest you would do to someone is 3k-5k per hit if they are wearing shields and you have broken their armor.. AD is easily reduced by wearing gr and shield( you would hit 1k or less against people with that) and I would be astounded if someone goes pvp without fcp or at least an extra RSX-GR armor. having 2 armors is more or less mandatory nowadays.

so thanks for the input guys, I just wanted to know if people would want this suggestion, since after playing it, I noticed that every time I try to pvp, I go hunt Stone of sages after, and well call me lazy but I already farm for my own seeds/berries, so i hate farming for AD too :p

I do wish to hear from people who use creators too. i have only seen Rusty Trombone use it to ladder(and he got all the gears I want for a creator O_O). i wanted to hear from the creators who aren't super rich on what they think. for me, I'm ok with the price(might just be lazy that is why i try this longshot of a suggestion) since it stops everyone using creator. but on the other hand, i would love to see some more creators trying to pvp, and not as fcp slaves.

*Raise Hand* Yes, I'm a creator fanatic....but yeah I totally agree on what your going and your suggestion. The reason I say this is because it is true that it's really easy to reduce the damage taken from acid demonstration just by RSX+GR, Friggs, and maybe devilring cards on cloak. Not only that, but if your a pvp creator (like myself) you spend about 150mil for bottles just for woe....and right now it seems like its pretty difficult to get tokens and sell them for 30+mil. Overall, I agree with your suggestion +1.

[zergling]

how about instead of making the bottles unlimited instead reducing the price again maybe from 10k per bottle to maybe 1k? or even 5k per bottle that way it's much cheaper and it solves all of the problems.

[Rayray]

^ i would like that. it really sucks as Amicable mentioned that we are the only class that spends more or less 100m just for WoE, while the other classes can do as much damage as we are without spending any(aside from yggs and mvp cards, but mvp cards stay with you, our bottles get used up). but people might rage if we make it 1k lol

[Kittie]

I won't rage for 1k!

[Rayray]

me too Kittie, but others might :D tbh i would love it to be 1k, it will save me a lot of zeny, considering I dont like decarding so I use my creator for almost everything(pvp, mvp hunting, even farming lol)

[zergling]

well the economy is sort of in the crapper right now and it is hard to make zeny without spending hours and hours on end farming the zeny. so 1k seems fair since it really isn't fair to have one class spending over 100 mil just in supplies not including yggs/speed pots/other items.

[masterneil]

I suggest to make the price of acid and grenades bottle same as the arrows:D

[Amicable]

me too Kittie, but others might :D tbh i would love it to be 1k, it will save me a lot of zeny, considering I dont like decarding so I use my creator for almost everything(pvp, mvp hunting, even farming lol)

well the economy is sort of in the crapper right now and it is hard to make zeny without spending hours and hours on end farming the zeny. so 1k seems fair since it really isn't fair to have one class spending over 100 mil just in supplies not including yggs/speed pots/other items.

*Nods nods* yes yes +1 Yes, right now the economy is crappy....so I believe it won't hurt to make it 1k each :)!

[Rayray]

@Cyclone they wouldn't do that and I wouldn't like it either, if they make it cost like the arrows, that is technically near infinite, so what was the point :p

@Amicable and Zergling

yeah 1k is a really good price for me as well(2k per cast of AD not counting the discount of merchant or the ones from the stalker). but I fear that if they do that, a lot of people would just use creator since the only thing creator needs is the valk weapon and high int to do damage. in fact even they do not have any weapons they can still kill if they do break the enemies' armor. I am not against the 1k per bottle, I love it, but I think the GMs might not allow it. 5k per bottle would still be decent though, but yes, I prefer the 1k per bottle.

reading every reply here made me think that making AD bottles infinite is stupid. while yes it is easily reduced by gr+rsx and shield which everyone that pvp should have, it stun locks people a whole lot. in a one on one situation, it is annoying already but that stun lock shines in group pvp. so please ignore my suggestion on making them infinite. just make the discussion regarding on lowering the price thanks.

[Cool Guy~]

RSX Card???

[TensaZangetsu]

Ill have to disagree with this suggestion, because you can already break gears, stun lock and you have magic ability, and when those ad come down, you better hope you're wearing reductions, but back on topic. Everyone has supplies they have to hunt for and youre obviously not the only one who spend loads during woe. Id say the class who has it worst is sinx breakers who need speed tickets, edp tickets, curse bottle tickets and ygg tickets just to last in the emp room, and thats competing with 10 different sinx. I spend 60-80 tokens, every woe, compared to 100 million measly zen.

Edited September 25, 2012 by TensaZangetsu

[HealHard]

Ill have to disagree with this suggestion, because you can already break gears, stun lock and you have magic ability, and when those ad come down, you better hope you're wearing reductions, but back on topic. Everyone has supplies they have to hunt for and youre obviously not the only one who spend loads during woe. Id say the class who has it worst is sinx breakers who need speed tickets, edp tickets, curse bottle tickets and ygg tickets just to last in the emp rooms, and thats competing with 10 different sinx. I spend anywhere between 60-80 tokens almost every woe compared to 100 million measly zen.

says the person who cant afford fcp tickets.

anyway, back to topic. one seed costs 75k (if you buy them 4:1 and 1 tok = 30 mil). its not such a big deal to spend some zeny for bottles too.

also, creators dont use bos/converters. this saves money. i dont see any reason they should become cheaper to use. additionaly as it was already mentioned, their AD skill is the best stun lock in game, and they can always switch to bolts or mammonite if they are out of bottles. cheap enough.

[pukamon]

reading every reply here made me think that making AD bottles infinite is stupid. while yes it is easily reduced by gr+rsx and shield which everyone that pvp should have, it stun locks people a whole lot. in a one on one situation, it is annoying already but that stun lock shines in group pvp. so please ignore my suggestion on making them infinite. just make the discussion regarding on lowering the price thanks.

Agree to the 1k per bottle, i actually tried bio for pvp events (got legendary bio mace) and running out of AD bottles (items+cart) is one of the worst situations to get into since you can't use @storage, so also how about reducing the weights of the bottles, like the arrows weight. Too much?

[Rayray]

@Tensa

80 tokens per WoE? you must be wasting so many yggs,edp and speed potions then. at most i use about 10tix of berries when i was breaking and the guilds are defending.. what the hell are you doing in that WoE to spend that much? AND YET YOU CANNOT BUY YOUR OWN FCP TICKETS? I really find that hard to believe

@HealHard that doesn't change the fact that we creators cost almost twice to play compared to most classes. we use seeds or berries too. and it's not like i will kill someone geared with 5 casts of AD right? it will take a whole lot of bottles especially if he was geared enough with fcp or rsx armor. technically it is 20k per cast of AD. im always flushing zeny down the drain if i try to pvp against super geared people.

@pukamon

exactly, thank you :D. i dunno if they would do that regarding the weight, i already sacrifice a lot of stat points that was supposedly for vit to my str just to bring many bottles and seeds per serious fight. .

[TensaZangetsu]

I have never seen you broke before. 2nd, you're saying all those supplies cant range from 50-80 tokens? Speed ticket, fcp ticket, cursed bottles, edp tickets and ygg ticket. I dont by huge amount, but exactly what I need for that woe, so what so hard to believe? and 3rd, why does it matter if im poor or not? Are you gonna use that on me everytime? just cause I said it in another suggestion? Jesus...

[TensaZangetsu]

Lol is that a threat? Haha..

[TensaZangetsu]

I dont remember losing to you though. XD

[Rayray]

Oh I only break whenever I want, I rather enjoy killing people off than breaking, that is why i rarely use my flee sinx for WoE. but when I do, I don't use up that much amount geez. The reason some of us bring up your statement is because your reason to nerf sniper strip is because you said you don't have tokens for FCP and yet you allegedly spend 80 tokens per WoE you join. See the inconsistency? If someone is poor, they won't spend tokens for WoE, rather they would farm their supplies. which means that the main reason you want snipers nerfed is because you are just too lazy to fcp yourself.

@Rusty

I never knew you are the sinx Quan lol. it was really fun dispelling people who go full buffs in PVP, it's annoying to chase them though

[Amicable]

anyway, back to topic. one seed costs 75k (if you buy them 4:1 and 1 tok = 30 mil). its not such a big deal to spend some zeny for bottles too.

also, creators dont use bos/converters. this saves money. i dont see any reason they should become cheaper to use. additionaly as it was already mentioned, their AD skill is the best stun lock in game, and they can always switch to bolts or mammonite if they are out of bottles. cheap enough.

Well, think about this, with this crappy economy, its pretty easy to reduce the damage of AD just buy a RSX card and GR card which is like 6 tokens AT MOST and equip it to a forsaken armor or forsaken knight armor( Don't know if they are 2 carded, haven't played). Not only that, but how can a AD bio also be a mammonite build...its pretty difficult to be a hybrid build unless you got a thanatos or really pro gear (which not alot of people have, really expensive). As for bolts, you can just equip a Gtb card....and the bottles ARE NOT CHEAP! I mean, 1k-5k is fine for each but seriously the price we have it now...is really expensive.