Pvp Ladder Suggestions

[Forum~]

Suggestions are numbered in order of importance and are as objective and as impartial where possible.

Though I am currently laddering, this suggestion is not made in my self-interest but it is suggested so that it benefits the general public. These are observations I have noted of our current PvP Ladder system.

1. Broadcast all kills made by the top five participants on the PvP Ladder.

This will decrease the amount of cheating because it will make evident to the entire server when individuals decide to cheat. It should be the top five participants because while only the top three are eligible for PvP Ladder prizes, people placed at fourth and fifth can cheat and manage to obtain third place or higher. Keeping the current ladder broadcast is favorable as the server can see when an individual ranks up.

If possible, the PvP Ladder broadcasting should be able to be toggled on and off via the PvP NPC or through a command such as /ladder or @ladder. This is so that it does not flood chat boxes of individuals who do not care for ladder or wish to see broadcasts (Selling/Buying/Trading/Offtopic) being made.

If the above is impossible, PvP Ladder broadcasts should be redirected to prt_vilg00 or a map of this sort. This can become a map (a hang out possibly) where ladder participants and GMs can see if ladder participants are cheating.

2. All skills that are disabled in GvG/LMS should be disabled in the PvP room.

Kaizel, Play Dead, Basilica, and Resurrect are skills which are disabled during GvG/LMS because they are can be abused and does not allow for fair play to all other participants. Likewise in a similar fashion, the aforementioned skills should be disabled in the PvP room (in short, disable Basilica).

3. Shorten the length of PvP ladder from two weeks to one week AND make first place prize to 5 PvP tokens.

It is evident that a majority of the laddering happens during the first few days and then dies down by the end of the first week, eventually becoming completely void during the second week. Returning PvP Ladder back to one week allows for the PvP room to be more active and gives more people a chance to participate in ladder.

PvP ladder being two weeks and first place getting 10 PvP tokens is equivalent to PvP ladder being one week and first place getting 5 PvP tokens.

Obviously, nothing would change with the current token exchange system regarding the ladder prizes (keep prizes at the same amount).

As for second and third place, the reward amount can be discussed in this thread.

4. Rotate the PvP map through a series of maps.

Changing the map monthly or seasonally would make the laddering experience more interesting and keep the setting fresh. ;]

Discuss. If you disagree, please put a logical reason why you disagree. Answering with a simple "no" is not beneficial to this thread.

Edited November 21, 2011 by Forum~

[nines]

Discuss. If you disagree, please put a logical reason why you disagree. Answering with a simple "no" is not beneficial to this thread.

I agree because I have been told to agree. And because the change was dumb.

[Meka Meka]

• Agreed - I think this is a great idea if it's possible.
• Not sure - I would say yes because these skills don't seem necessary for what a PVP arena should be.
• Agreed - I think this will make Ladder more accessible without sacrificing the economy or ladder mechanic.
• Agreed - would be fun if possible.

[Yukumaru]

1. No

2. No

3. 5 PvP Tokens...mmm NO

4. Ya sur, ty.

[Nadtorious]

1. No

2. No

3. Not the week, but the Token~Okay. (To make Sacreds more sacred) ~

4. Yes.

[HealHard]

1. yes - less cheaters means more fun

2. yes, basilica is abusable rest - IDC xD

3.1 yes, 2 weeks is too long

3.2 yes, this helps economy and helps people. 1st place 5 pvp tok, 2nd - 2, 3rd - none or 1 (so 2 weeks = 14/16 pvp toks instead of 15)

4. yes, would be fun

[Kittie]

1. I would agree, wouldn't really affect the server in an adverse way as it doesn't change gameplay, but just adds broadcasts that can be toggled on or off. I don't understand why someone would disagree to this, unless they are ladder cheaters.

2. Agree as well, there really isn't a need for Basillica in PVP, unless you are using it as an "afk" zone, in which I would advise you to go to fcity or a non-PVP/PK area to afk and chat. This is the PVP arena, isn't it?

Or if you are using the Basillica and RSX card to spam AV non-stop...well, that really shouldn't be allowed anyways.

3. Undecided, I don't ladder, so this wouldn't really affect me.

4. Agree - who doesn't like new maps?!

[Xtopher]

1. Sure, it would cut down on the flooding.

2. STRONGLY DISAGREE. Those skills are very useful in pvp. Basilica, if used correctly can turn tides in team fights. Soul linker buffs are also useful in big team wars, as well as resurrect. These classes have been gimped in WoE/GvG there is no reason to further gimp them in PvP as well. Priest is the ultimate support. They are a highly underused class and it sickens me to think people want to further shit on the class by gimping them in PvP. Resurrect keeps your team going. People are also weak after resurrect (no buffs/fcp/etc..). Basilica is useful for saving your team when the paladin falls. Its also HIGHLY useful for entering the room so that you don't get super-ganked one by one as your team enters. Lastly, its a counter to people getting full buffs (gospel/voke/etc..) entering the room and slaughtering your whole team. Keep that basilica up when they warp in and prepare for battle.

What justification do you have for disabling basilica? Its not "abuse" the skill is meant to be the ultimate defense. You can take its area effect down with magnetic earth and hit the other party members besides the priest.

Basilica is disabled in WoE/GvG because of the already huge amounts of damage reductions and the time factor. PvP is forever on-going. No gm has to sit around and wait for the priest to run out of holy waters.

Assumptio isn't allowed in WoE, so you wanna disable that too?

Why don't we just remove the priest class, huh?

3. I don't really care but isn't 3rd place only 1 token? What do you suggest their prize be changed to? 1/2 a token...?

4. Sounds fine... I don't particularly like the arena we have now because of its size. A sniper with full buffs can warp in and rock half your team before you get to him.

Edited November 21, 2011 by Xtopher

[sessions]

Wow, okay so much for giving logical reasons *ahem* johnny/nad.

1. Agreeing with the first since it would make cheating basically impossible, unless everyone on the server turned the bcs off. Which is doubtful.

2. Agree.

Note it says GvG and LMS, NOT WoE skills, assumptio would be all good. Also I don't really see how a priest going in and sitting in a basilica by himself for an hour is really "essential" to PvP, and yes that was aimed at you Chris. You said yourself it doesn't protect party members when magnetic earth is used, so why even use it? It's only real use is to null PvP for one person. I feel like nulling PvP in PvP room is kinda backwards. It is abuse when you can make yourself invulnerable in PvP just for that reason. As far as Resurrect goes, since when was that enabled in PvP anyway? Talk about the easiest way to cheat in the world. You can't go around resing people for the reason you mentioned, they are weak and prone to die. How fair would it be if you constantly kept bringing your enemies back just to kill them again?

This isn't iro where resurrect makes some sense, this is supposed to be a high paced PvP environment. You die? You come back. Anyway I've made this too personal but whatever.

Disregarding my personal attacks (lo siento, chris) the main point is it is PVP not semi-afk land.

3. Eh not a huge fan of laddering twice just for wings, even if the ladders are shorter. To be honest I just want 1 week ladder=wings again.

4. Agree, cause pvp right now is boring and too small. PRETTY MAPS PLS

[Kittie]

We should probably clarify about the limitations on skills,

Basilica shouldn't be allowed for the reasons listed previously. the only argument I can see to keep it is to protect the party from people coming in pre-gospeled and full asura-ing.

Resurrect was never allowed, so we shouldn't be discussing it anyways.

Kaziel is the only soul linker skill that shouldn't be allowed since it lets someone resurrect once.

I think that's really it. Drew is not trying to take out all soul linker skills, just the one that guarantees an automatic resurrection upon death.

Edited November 21, 2011 by Kittie

[Xtopher]

2. Agree.

Note it says GvG and LMS, NOT WoE skills, assumptio would be all good. Also I don't really see how a priest going in and sitting in a basilica by himself for an hour is really "essential" to PvP, and yes that was aimed at you Chris. You said yourself it doesn't protect party members when magnetic earth is used, so why even use it? It's only real use is to null PvP for one person. I feel like nulling PvP in PvP room is kinda backwards. It is abuse when you can make yourself invulnerable in PvP just for that reason. As far as Resurrect goes, since when was that enabled in PvP anyway? Talk about the easiest way to cheat in the world. You can't go around resing people for the reason you mentioned, they are weak and prone to die. How fair would it be if you constantly kept bringing your enemies back just to kill them again?

This isn't iro where resurrect makes some sense, this is supposed to be a high paced PvP environment. You die? You come back. Anyway I've made this too personal but whatever.

Disregarding my personal attacks (lo siento, chris) the main point is it is PVP not semi-afk land.

Personal attacks huh? Wow. I expect more of you pat.

Anyhow, lets get down to business.

First of all you can't basilica yourself for an hour. The skill lasts for 40 seconds and requires holy water to be cast. Carrying holy waters means we carry less yggs. My example of magnetic earth was giving you an example of a way to counter the skill. Basilica is used as a split second way to keep your team alive. Most if not all gang fights have a professor these days and if you know ANYTHING about prof you will immediately start dispelling a priest and removing basilica with magnetic earth. Priests are not "invulnerable" while in this state. I suggest you pick of a dictionary and read before using big words you clearly don't understand. Invulnerable means unable to be harmed, a synonym would be impregnable. Basilica is far from invulnerability. There is no "abuse" here. The word "abuse" means to use wrongly or improperly. The purpose of basilica is to create "an absolute perfect defense zone" as it says in the skill description.Thus, using it in PvP to get the upper hand or to save your team is not "abuse". Even though it can be penetrated if you know how. Here, I'll provide some examples.

If the priest isn't wearing gtb he can be dispelled.

If the priest isn't fcped he can be stripped.

If the priest is wearing gtb and is fcped he can still be taroted to dispel the basilica. Once this dispel hits he'll lose his his assumptio as well, given he's wearing gtb he'll probably die promptly after the dispel.

Basilica is THE counter to gospel double attack. Everything must have its counterbalances. Removing it from PvP would be the final slap in the face for priests. The only place it would be used would be for_fild01 and those fights serve no greater purpose than to amuse us. As I've mentioned the best use of basilica is to keep you and your team from being super ganked when you enter the room. It is a useful skill.

Resurrection could be abused, sure. That's why we have gm teams and a ticket system. If you think someones cheating I prompt you to make a ticket.

If you have some sort of personal problem with me and how I use my characters I would prefer you talk to me personally instead of making backward stabs at me through suggestions.

Thank you.

[sessions]

Personal attacks huh? Wow. I expect more of you pat.

I suggest you pick of a dictionary and read before using big words you clearly don't understand.

Get off your high horse, hypocrite.

When you sit in PvP just because WITH GTB and FCP both on using basilica this is not to help your party. And yes you are invulnerable in this state, I know what words mean. Okay so you get tarot dispelled? All it takes is one click and heyo there's basilica again. Also since when did people use this skill strategically? I mean granted nobody but you really plays priest to its full potential, but I haven't seen this skill used for any other reason than unlimited skill spam or general trolling in forever.

I'm done here. This isn't worth arguing.

You're welcome.

[Lightofheaven]

1. No

2. No

3. No

4. maybe yes :3

im just suggesting

[Forum~]

1. No

2. No

3. 5 PvP Tokens...mmm NO

4. Ya sur, ty.

Not sure what you're saying here (regarding number 3).

1 week * 5 PvP tokens is proportional to 2 weeks * 10 PvP tokens

2 (1 week * 5 PvP tokens) = 2 weeks * 10 PvP tokens

2 weeks * 10 PvP tokens = 2 weeks * 10 PvP tokens

Hence, they are equivalent.

Plus may I argue that shorter weeks comes with perks of actually having an ACTIVE PvP ladder. You cannot deny that one week laddering was more competitive, with kills going from 700-1300 easily.

Now a days, it barely reaches the limits of 500, where ladder is competitive for the majority of the first week, dying down on the second week, only to have a last burst on Friday, hours before it resets.

1. No

2. No

3. Not the week, but the Token~Okay. (To make Sacreds more sacred) ~

4. Yes.

Okay, your opinion on 3 is actually valid, as every two weeks, essentially, a new wing is released into the economy.

1. No

2. No

3. No

4. maybe yes :3

im just suggesting

Learn to read. Explain why not. I'm sure your mind is capable of saying more than just "no" if you try hard enough.

It seems that people are avoiding suggestions 1 and 2 (excluding pat and chris). Flesh out your responses. SImply stating "no" is not constructive criticism.

EDIT: Also, to the people that responded "no" to 1 specifically, this inherently means you promote cheating. This suggestion is regarding how to DISSUADE cheaters in ladder. Unless you actually cheat or promote it, you would fully agree with my suggestion. In this case, explicate why you think 1 is a bad suggestion, a suggestion which is intended to stop feeders in particular.

1. I would agree, wouldn't really affect the server in an adverse way as it doesn't change gameplay, but just adds broadcasts that can be toggled on or off. I don't understand why someone would disagree to this, unless they are ladder cheaters.

Basically this. I neglected reading the entire thread responses before responding with my comments. :P Edited November 22, 2011 by Forum~

[kuoch]

1: Agree. Not everyone is able to ladder during the time zone the other players are on. We can't tell if they're cheating or not. So seeing this in a global broadcast would be nice.

2: Agree. Who wants to see a scrub tank priest sitting around with a Basilica trash talking in PvP? Like really? Who don't need any of that, why have that in PvP. I rather have that get rid of, if anything. The rules of LMS/GvG should also be strictly be put in the PvP arena as well. +1

3: Half&Half. It's a okay idea, but I still rather have the 10 PvP tokens if possible. I just find it time consuming how it's 2 weeks now. And yah, it's true the first day the ladder resets, that's when the PvP actually become active. That's probably the only day you have to ladder possibly. And then just having to wait the 2 weeks just makes it way to long. So pft.

4: Agree. A new map every other couple weeks would be nice. Would love to see a change of scenery for once.

Off topic; not to take sides or anything I can't tell if you guys are just trolling, or just being complete dicks. Just saying.

Anyways, great idea Draw, I'd like to so see these ideas get approved.

[Xtopher]

Typical suggestion thread where a guy's crew makes a personal attack on a single player. All his "friends" jump in and bandwagon agreeing just because they have a problem with said player. You should try dealing with your problems like men. Talk to someone face to face before making backward stabs and blatant personal insults on the forum suggestion thread. I'm talking to you Pat and Kuoch. Again, if you have some sort of problem with how I play my characters message me in game.

The suggestions other than the second one are legitimate.

The only thing I really agree with is changing the PvP room.

[Forum~]

Typical suggestion thread where a guy's crew makes a personal attack on a single player. All his "friends" jump in and bandwagon agreeing just because they have a problem with said player.

I don't feel as if this thread attacks a particular player. These are observations I have noted that I feel can be modified for the better, either because it is improvable (suggestions one and four) or was flawed (suggestions two and three). Now whether it is better or not, the community is here to decide that.

I am being blatant in saying that these so called "personal attacks" seem to stem from the in-game guild rivalry, that being Ghost and Aggressive versus Dignified. In the thread I created, I am trying to be as impartial as I can when I say that both sides are at fault. So Chris, don't exclude yourself and your side out as well. I am very aware that members of both sides have responded very oppositely regarding to this suggestion simply because of guild loyalty.

In this particular suggestion, lets remove all in-game constructs and work together for a better server.

The suggestions other than the second one are legitimate.

The only thing I really agree with is changing the PvP room.

Okay, temporarily, lets exclude the second suggestion because you feel slighted and of course there is going to be a strong bias, in particular, due to the fact that you use basilica in the PvP room.

Disregarding the second suggestion, why do you feel that suggestion one is not an acceptable enough suggestion to not meet your approval? Is it benefiting one party more than another party? Does it appear that my suggestion is self-interested for myself and my party? Does it negatively affect gameplay? I do not see why any rational being would reject this suggestion, a suggestion which would strongly enforce anti-feeding (Then again, I do not know if you yourself feed, promote feeding, or feel that because I myself am from Dignified, you feel that you have to win against me at all costs, you being in Ghost).

I can see why suggestions two, three, and four are debatable. However, suggestion one should be an obvious YES by anyone who replies.

Edited November 23, 2011 by Forum~

[Xtopher]

I don't feel as if this thread attacks a particular player. These are observations I have noted that I feel can be modified for the better, either because it is improvable (suggestions one and four) or was flawed (suggestions two and three). Now whether it is better or not, the community is here to decide that.

I am being blatant in saying that these so called "personal attacks" seem to stem from the in-game guild rivalry, that being Ghost and Aggressive versus Dignified. In the thread I created, I am trying to be as impartial as I can when I say that both sides are at fault. So Chris, don't exclude yourself and your side out as well. I am very aware that members of both sides have responded very oppositely regarding to this suggestion simply because of guild loyalty.

In this particular suggestion, lets remove all in-game constructs and work together for a better server.

Okay, temporarily, lets exclude the second suggestion because you feel slighted and of course there is going to be a strong bias, in particular, due to the fact that you use basilica in the PvP room.

Disregarding the second suggestion, why do you feel that suggestion one is not an acceptable enough suggestion to not meet your approval? Is it benefiting one party more than another party? Does it appear that my suggestion is self-interested for myself and my party? Does it negatively affect gameplay? I do not see why any rational being would reject this suggestion, a suggestion which would strongly enforce anti-feeding (Then again, I do not know if you yourself feed, promote feeding, or feel that because I myself am from Dignified, you feel that you have to win against me at all costs, you being in Ghost).

I can see why suggestions two, three, and four are debatable. However, suggestion one should be an obvious YES by anyone who replies.

First of all Drew/Pete I'm not posting my comments under the influence of any guild drama. I don't care who is laddering or what guild you're in. I'm posting my comments as PRIEST USER. Your suggestion mentions a HUGE nerf to the priest class in pvp room. Anyone would respond the way I have if you were to suggest nerfing their favorite class in pvp.

I consider almost everyone who has posted in this thread as friends, but if I feel like I'm being personally attacked (which I am by a few of the posts) I'm going to respond negatively. You yourself didn't really call me out personally in this thread but your supporters did. I didn't want to make this personal. I try my hardest to approach every suggestion impartially. But I am a priest user. I'm not going to brag because I'm not nines, but I would say I'm one of the best priests on the server. I'm simply defending my class.

Your argument for getting basilica removed hasn't gone further than "well its not allowed in LMS/GvG". PvP is not LMS or GvG. I would love to read more of an arguments that aren't a personal attack on me.

If you read the post of mine that you quoted I said that all your other suggestions ARE LEGITIMATE. They're good and thought provoking suggestions. However I do still disagree with some of them. If you READ my first post you would see that I agreed with #1 and #4. I'm impartial to #3 as I don't really care either way. I agree with suggestion 4 the most.

Jesus, I was agreeing with you and you're still getting upset... Calm down.

Edited November 23, 2011 by Xtopher

[Forum~]

First of all Drew/Pete I'm not posting my comments under the influence of any guild drama. I don't care who is laddering or what guild you're in.

Even if you are not, I am sure that others in this thread have responded to this suggestion under the impression of guild loyalty. So if I did not give off the impression of it implying to everybody, that is what I intended.

I'm posting my comments as PRIEST USER. Your suggestion mentions a HUGE nerf to the priest class in pvp room. Anyone would respond the way I have if you were to suggest nerfing their favorite class in pvp.

Your argument for getting basilica removed hasn't gone further than "well its not allowed in LMS/GvG". PvP is not LMS or GvG. I would love to read more of an arguments that aren't a personal attack on me.

Okay, this is where we split in ideas. You call it a nerf- in short, a transition of states where your class (priest) moves from an advantageous position to one that is lower. I do not see it as a nerf. I see it as fixing a flaw that should have never been allowed in the first place. So while you consider this suggestion as a weakening of the priest class, I consider it fixing a mistake.

If you read the post of mine that you quoted I said that all your other suggestions ARE LEGITIMATE. They're good and thought provoking suggestions. However I do still disagree with some of them. If you READ my first post you would see that I agreed with #1 and #4. I'm impartial to #3 as I don't really care either way. I agree with suggestion 4 the most.

Jesus, I was agreeing with you and you're still getting upset... Calm down.

I neglected to read your very first post and that is a mistake on my behalf.

The suggestions other than the second one are legitimate.

The only thing I really agree with is changing the PvP room.

This is badly worded. Though you claimed legitimacy for everything except two, I assumed you ONLY agreed with suggestion four as stated by the last sentence. Edited November 23, 2011 by Forum~

[Xtopher]

You do realize that if its removed from PvP the only place it can be used is for_fild01 where the fights serve no greater purpose than self amusement.

The class is damn well useless as it is. Why make it even more useless? Everyone wears gtb with devo in pvp. Making heal/lex aeterna useless. Even with our godly 200k-300k heals we can't do anything because everyone is forced to gtb in pvp.

As for a what you call a "mistake". You don't make the rules around here. Just because you don't find it logical doesn't mean its a mistake. The GM team allow basilica in pvp for a reason, I'm sure. I doubt Genesis would call this a mistake. If it said somewhere in the PvP rules that it wasn't allowed in PvP, yet we were still able to use it... then it would be a mistake/abuse.

Also, you shouldn't conclude that everyone that disagrees with suggestion 1 is promoting feeding. Plenty of people hang out in fcity just to relax and talk. I doubt they want their chats flooded with pvp broadcasts or want to deal with a command to turn off the broadcasts. It's the main town... I don't want new people rage quitting because they can't even read their chats. The GM team watches the ladder and are aware of how feeders work. If you think someone might be feeding while you're gone leave your character in pvp room after eating an EDP bottle. You can scroll up and read the kill broadcasts and watch for feeds while you're semi-afk.

I'm not saying I disagree with suggestion 1. I'm just adding my thoughts.

Edited November 23, 2011 by Xtopher

[Forum~]

You do realize that if its removed from PvP the only place it can be used is for_fild01 where the fights serve no greater purpose than self amusement.

The class is damn well useless as it is. Why make it even more useless? Everyone wears gtb with devo in pvp. Making heal/lex aeterna useless. Even with our godly 200k-300k heals we can't do anything because everyone is forced to gtb in pvp.

Then why isn't soul linker not allowed to kaizel in PvP? "The class is damn well useless as it is."

...

Because clearly that is abusable, and the same argument is made with Priest. And to note, soul linker is in a much worse condition compared to Priest (especially with the scarf nerf, but that's another topic...) so don't utilize uselessness as a reason, because they're not. Priests make players default to GTB, which in turn helps his gang in physical damage-oriented ways. We both know, having a single Priest in the party can completely turn the tides in gang fights, regardless of the location.

Additionally, most priests have very decent HP, as well as Assumptio casted on themselves, plus the options of safety wall or pneuma. Their mortality rate in the hands of a skilled player is quite low.

As for a what you call a "mistake". You don't make the rules around here. Just because you don't find it logical doesn't mean its a mistake. The GM team allow basilica in pvp for a reason, I'm sure. I doubt Genesis would call this a mistake. If it said somewhere in the PvP rules that it wasn't allowed in PvP, yet we were still able to use it... then it would be a mistake/abuse.

I do not think I've claimed to make the rules here. You are misinterpreting and twisting what I am saying. I've only stated that it was an observation. It is quite possible that Genesis forgot to include Basilica as part of the unusable skills for PvP ladder. It has never been noted until now unless you or Genesis himself proves otherwise.

Also, you shouldn't conclude that everyone that disagrees with suggestion 1 is promoting feeding. Plenty of people hang out in fcity just to relax and talk. I doubt they want their chats flooded with pvp broadcasts or want to deal with a command to turn off the broadcasts. It's the main town... I don't want new people rage quitting because they can't even read their chats. The GM team watches the ladder and are aware of how feeders work. If you think someone might be feeding while you're gone leave your character in pvp room after eating an EDP bottle. You can scroll up and read the kill broadcasts and watch for feeds while you're semi-afk.

I'm not saying I disagree with suggestion 1. I'm just adding my thoughts.

I provided two simple alternatives to those that do not wish to have their chat box flooded.

1. To provide a command to toggle the broadcasts on or off.

2. To direct the top five ladder participant's kills to another map such as prt_vilg00 or something of this sort.

Regarding your comment on "not wanting to deal with a command to turn it on or off"... It is such an insignificant detail on the matters of the legitimacy of laddering. The benefits evidently outweigh the negatives or the "hassles" of toggling it off. If you are ever so persistent, how about another append to this suggestion? How about making the default setting for every character to "toggle off" for the global PvP broadcasts? To those who want it turned on, then turn it on. There. People do not have to deal with this function if they don't need to.

Leaving your character dead in the PvP room is not an acceptable alternative to preventing cheating. The whole intention of this suggestion is to fix that. I'm thinking more or less (for part two of suggestion one): copy the code that already exists in the PvP room that broadcasts the kills; Minor adjustments and paste onto the code that deals with a map such as prt_vilg00. I am not familiar with how RO is coded but I have background in Java and C++ and I am certain the coding is little to no effort since the GM team has enabled PvP kill broadcasts in the PvP room, WoE, LMS, GvG, for_fild01, etc.

Edited November 23, 2011 by Forum~

[Xtopher]

Then why isn't soul linker not allowed to kaizel in PvP? "The class is damn well useless as it is."

...

Because clearly that is abusable, and the same argument is made with Priest. And to note, soul linker is in a much worse condition compared to Priest (especially with the scarf nerf, but that's another topic...) so don't utilize uselessness as a reason, because they're not. Priests make players default to GTB, which in turn helps his gang in physical damage-oriented ways. We both know, having a single Priest in the party can completely turn the tides in gang fights, regardless of the location.

Additionally, most priests have very decent HP, as well as Assumptio casted on themselves, plus the options of safety wall or pneuma. Their mortality rate in the hands of a skilled player is quite low.

I do not think I've claimed to make the rules here. You are misinterpreting and twisting what I am saying. I've only stated that it was an observation. It is quite possible that Genesis forgot to include Basilica as part of the unusable skills for PvP ladder. It has never been noted until now unless you or Genesis himself proves otherwise.

I provided two simple alternatives to those that do not wish to have their chat box flooded.

1. To provide a command to toggle the broadcasts on or off.

2. To direct the top five ladder participant's kills to another map such as prt_vilg00 or something of this sort.

Regarding your comment on "not wanting to deal with a command to turn it on or off"... It is such an insignificant detail on the matters of the legitimacy of laddering. The benefits evidently outweigh the negatives or the "hassles" of toggling it off. If you are ever so persistent, how about another append to this suggestion? How about making the default setting for every character to "toggle off" for the global PvP broadcasts? To those who want it turned on, then turn it on. There. People do not have to deal with this function if they don't need to.

Leaving your character dead in the PvP room is not an acceptable alternative to preventing cheating. The whole intention of this suggestion is to fix that. I'm thinking more or less (for part two of suggestion one): copy the code that already exists in the PvP room that broadcasts the kills; Minor adjustments and paste onto the code that deals with a map such as prt_vilg00. I am not familiar with how RO is coded but I have background in Java and C++ and I am certain the coding is little to no effort since the GM team has enabled PvP kill broadcasts in the PvP room, WoE, LMS, GvG, for_fild01, etc.

Prof forces gtb more than priest. Almost all gang fights have a prof these days. With everyone wearing gtb Priest is just a useless target. At best its a distraction, at worst its a free kill. Soul linkers are always going to be hard to balance, but priests have always meant to be the best support in the game. Soul linkers can cast that revive skill outside of pvp and enter with it, we priests can't cast basilica outside pvp and warp in with it. Basilica is about keeping your party alive when they enter and a counter to people who just get gospel, run in, and mess your entire crew. There are many ways to take it down so I don't see how it's imbalanced. Soul linkers can't use their revive skill for obvious feeding reasons. Priest has resurrection taken away, why remove basilica? PvP is almost entirely offense-based on this server (who can do x amount of damage the fastest). There should be more defensive play and basilica is defensive play at its finest.

If saving your party and trying to keep them alive is "abuse" we might as well remove devotion as well.

As for the other suggestion, like I said: I'm agreeing with you on this one. I just don't think its fair for you to assume that just because people might disagree with it means they promote feeding.

[Forum~]

Again, I still believe that Basilica was meant to be disabled in the PvP room, only to be forgotten about during the time of implementation. That would maintain the consistency found in GvG/LMS- both PvP-oriented events. It appears that it has never been "fixed" (changed, messed around with, etc) because it has never been mentioned seriously until now.

As for the other suggestion, like I said: I'm agreeing with you on this one. I just don't think its fair for you to assume that just because people might disagree with it means they promote feeding.

I think it is fair for me to assume this position, a position of "feeding promotion" if they disagree. I do not see any other reasonable alternative (save someone providing some...). Even if they feel indifferent towards laddering as a whole, they should still see that it benefits, if implemented given my constraints, resulting in an agreement.

As I see it - Inherent Reasons for Disagreement Regarding Suggestion One:

1. The individual feeds themselves.

2. The individual promotes/assists feeding to other players (likely friends).

3. The individual would be unsatisfied with the chat flood that would occur (THIS CAN BE SOLVED, READ BACK).

4. It is found to be impossible to implement (highly unlikely as PvP kills are already broadcasted, etc).

5. ???

As to what we both think is fair, to each their own. I'd like to see more opinions besides Chris and I arguing back and forth (of course with rational reasons as to WHY if you disagree).

GO...!

Edited November 23, 2011 by Forum~

[Meka Meka]

On the broadcasting suggestion, I too see no reason (for myself at least) to disagree or why others should, especially if it can be toggled, limited etc while otherwise an active function - that eliminates the spamming issue. Feeding/cheating does still happen, even after the recently updated ladder rules.

[Xtopher]

As to what we both think is fair, to each their own. I'd like to see more opinions besides Chris and I arguing back and forth (of course with rational reasons as to WHY if you disagree).

Well, we can agree there.

I would like to see more people's opinions as well.