Lord Knight Black Halberd's Spiral Pierce

[jorgesilvera]

24 October, 2010 - 07:47 PM The Fate Of The Gods Saga, Episode I: The Dream Of Baldr was released with a reduction of the Lord Knight Black Halberd Spiral Pierce from 200% to 100% without a warning, advice, or notification and the Lord Knight Community get a very high cost, the Weapon cost get very low, the Lord Knight Population decreased and obviously less participation in Player vs. Player.

I suggest increasing the Spiral Pierce from 100% to 150%-175%, there are the reasons.

The frist official disagree abaut Spiral Pierce % on forum was made on 25 October 2010 - 07:39 PM ¿Strange no?

A Lord Knight when was 200% the Damage Calculation can hit on (-55% damage from Demi-Human) (Full strength, with Pecopeco, non buffed) [No elemental Advantage] = 9492 Each hit of Spiral Pierce Making a total of 47,470 (That for me was fine) now With the current (-55% damage from Demi-Human) (Full strength, with Pecopeco, non buffed) [No elemental Advantage] =7143 Each hit of Spiral Pierce making a total of 35,715

Now Spiral Pierce damage is less damage that a gypsy does with Arrow Vulcan hit 9 x 4.7k(Rounded) or more with kobold (Normal on -55% no Thanatos card, no element advantage) = 42.3kSpiral Pierce does 5 Times x 7143 (Piercing Defense, no elemental Advantage) = 35,715 obviously less than Arrow Vulcan.

In comparison to Gypsies, Lord Knight will NEVER have the weapon endowed with Ghost Element and Thanatos Card does nothing in the damage calculation, Lord Knight Do not have coma now but gypsies have Tarrot Card Fate as always. Coma was removed from the Halberd because the community wanted it and that have noting with the current damage of Spiral Pierce.

Also with more and more reductions now at days it has to get increased and at the time do not reduce the damage that the user does. Even now with Frigg shield on the way. Someone will say: “But few people have Frigg Shields” ,Before Hand Answer: “ Son or late will be a lot on the market like how it happened to Emperium Auras when was released”

People that will complain about this will say: "Lord Knight has a lot of Hp and an Ygg capacity" and beforehand I will answer: ”And you can’t storage in the middle of the battle?” (if you don’t know how I had bad news for you…) the only area in which it can’t be done is Player vs. Player leader, Lord Knights aren’t a evasive class they don’t evade like Assassin Cross, Stalkers, Gypsies and champions we just have 3 offensive skills: Spiral Pierce, Bowling Bash and Spear Boomerang.

Also if someone says: "You just show the calculation on -55% why not on 0%?", Beforehand answer: "because if goes dual weapon that is you business if want to lose your defense or bad luck if got striped"To conclude the Lord Knight Halberd’s Spiral Pierce Damage was good how it was. To return the population, Player vs. Player and Balance primarily.

Thanks.

Postdata: Avoid rant here, Really Irrelevant Post, blaming and jokes.

Postdata2: I accept Comparison in this topic because obviously other that the motioned before

Edited November 14, 2010 by jorgesilvera

[D.Vampire]

He has a really good point. :wink:

If your gonna fix something ask the players 1st. :rolleyes:

[supream]

hes got a point. even if you have the power to do things, you should at least hear the community's feelings towards it before making the change. About the damage, i had no problem playing lk before these new weapons came out. tripling damage with the new weapon was a bit over the top to me, but as it stands now its just doubled right? maybe they want something in between. i havent been playing a lot lately so i cant really see if this is a big problem or not. im neutral on this topic.

[Applez]

Hes got a good point, i agree :3

[Guest xonchu]

+1 agree. Its not about playing, its about balancing :)

[Perishable]

I'm in between Agree and Disagree. This is a High Rate server and we're lucky they add the a certain % more damage with Spiral Pierce. I don't think any other server have done this. Lord Knight Halberd was too over powered. I cannot beat any Lord Knights with it when it was at 200%. Before the Lord Knight Halberd, Spiral Pierce damage was around 2-4k. I've died to it by Supreamus to only 2-4k spam. If you was to duel a Gypsy, Clown, Sniper, or other classes that has nothing to counter super high damage spiral pierce, how will they be able to fight back? They would have to spam ygg and like what if you want to get close to Physical Melee them to strip them or something, how will they be able to do that? Also, Champion. A Class that I mostly play in the server. If a Lord Knight is spamming that much damage at me, I cannot tank it. Even putting up Pneuma, they would charge you out of it then spam again. Also, Magnum Break. Lord Knight Halberd drain yggs from other classes more than other classes draining yggs from them. What more can you ask? They add like 100% more damage with spiral for lord knights already. Lord Knight Halberd is not just for spamming Spiral Pierce if you have one. Use it with other Lord Knight skills. It gives like almost 1k attack when being equiped. I've never seen any Lord Knight that have Lord Knight Black Halberd doing other skills with it than Spiral Pierce. Try Bowling Bash and other skills that all the Knights used to do.

[Nataly]

A Lot a Good Agument, I Agree :D Edited November 14, 2010 by Nataly

[Xtopher]

As everyone has mentioned I think it would be fair to put it up to 150%.

[OverRated]

its more on people just saying .

" Good one "

" has good ideas "

Personally Lks do good damage reguardless of the damage cut in half. Obviously Genesis put some thought into it when they redid the patch. Honestly relying on 1 skill when Lk have so BB and spiral is just cause Spiral has infininte spam. you can spam spiral for ever as long as you ygg when you need to. on top of this Pupptering card does not affect Spiral to cause stone curse. But AV can get stone cursed. a good lk that knows how to play it i have seen them hit like 7k-8k on top of the infinite spam. while clowns have to stop. the spam and move. so yeah id disagree just learn to play the class a little different. the lk class does not need a super boost on the damage. before this wep came out there were still so many good lks playing and killing people. so do not just rely on this 1 wep to help you from winning. overall LK is the best class high damage output, so much hp, can hold a zillion berries compared to other classes.

fyi: most people just bitch about the lk cause they had it when it was the best wep and now it isnt as good and you want your " moneys worth / you just want lk to better overall.

Edited November 14, 2010 by OverRated

[Perishable]

its more on people just saying .

" Good one "

" has good ideas "

Personally Lks do good damage reguardless of the damage cut in half. Obviously Genesis put some thought into it when they redid the patch. Honestly relying on 1 skill when Lk have so BB and spiral is just cause Spiral has infininte spam. you can spam spiral for ever as long as you ygg when you need to. on top of this Pupptering card does not affect Spiral to cause stone curse. But AV can get stone cursed. a good lk that knows how to play it i have seen them hit like 7k-8k on top of the infinite spam. while clowns have to stop. the spam and move. so yeah id disagree just learn to play the class a little different. the lk class does not need a super boost on the damage. before this wep came out there were still so many good lks playing and killing people. so do not just rely on this 1 wep to help you from winning. overall LK is the best class high damage output, so much hp, can hold a zillion berries compared to other classes.

fyi: most people just bitch about the lk cause they had it when it was the best wep and now it isnt as good and you want your " moneys worth / you just want lk to better overall.

Yup. All these.

[supream]

I'm in between Agree and Disagree. This is a High Rate server and we're lucky they add the a certain % more damage with Spiral Pierce. I don't think any other server have done this. Lord Knight Halberd was too over powered. I cannot beat any Lord Knights with it when it was at 200%. Before the Lord Knight Halberd, Spiral Pierce damage was around 2-4k. I've died to it by Supreamus to only 2-4k spam. If you was to duel a Gypsy, Clown, Sniper, or other classes that has nothing to counter super high damage spiral pierce, how will they be able to fight back? They would have to spam ygg and like what if you want to get close to Physical Melee them to strip them or something, how will they be able to do that? Also, Champion. A Class that I mostly play in the server. If a Lord Knight is spamming that much damage at me, I cannot tank it. Even putting up Pneuma, they would charge you out of it then spam again. Also, Magnum Break. Lord Knight Halberd drain yggs from other classes more than other classes draining yggs from them. What more can you ask? They add like 100% more damage with spiral for lord knights already. Lord Knight Halberd is not just for spamming Spiral Pierce if you have one. Use it with other Lord Knight skills. It gives like almost 1k attack when being equiped. I've never seen any Lord Knight that have Lord Knight Black Halberd doing other skills with it than Spiral Pierce. Try Bowling Bash and other skills that all the Knights used to do.

great argument som, but i dont think using me as a example is very good. try to base it off of average lks.

[OverRated]

great argument som, but i dont think using me as a example is very good. try to base it off of average lks.

your just the pro.

You do amazing damage even before the wep was made.

People are just QQin cause they spent 1k on a wep and now its practically balanced and they feel like its useless

[Forum~]

A Lord Knight when was 200% the Damage Calculation can hit on (-55% damage from Demi-Human) (Full strength, with Pecopeco, non buffed) [No elemental Advantage] = 9492 Each hit of Spiral Pierce Making a total of 47,470 (That for me was fine) now With the current (-55% damage from Demi-Human) (Full strength, with Pecopeco, non buffed) [No elemental Advantage] =7143 Each hit of Spiral Pierce making a total of 35,715

I think every LK enjoyed spamming ~10k on a player with 55% demi-human reducts. If you still hit ~7k, that's nothing to complain about.

Now Spiral Pierce damage is less damage that a gypsy does with Arrow Vulcan hit 9 x 4.7k(Rounded) or more with kobold (Normal on -55% no Thanatos card, no element advantage) = 42.3kSpiral Pierce does 5 Times x 7143 (Piercing Defense, no elemental Advantage) = 35,715 obviously less than Arrow Vulcan.

It may be less damage but you can spam infinitely while a gypsy can only do 2-4 at a time with a huge delay in between.

In comparison to Gypsies, Lord Knight will NEVER have the weapon endowed with Ghost Element and Thanatos Card does nothing in the damage calculation, Lord Knight Do not have coma now but gypsies have Tarrot Card Fate as always. Coma was removed from the Halberd because the community wanted it and that have noting with the current damage of Spiral Pierce.

Majority of the server wouldn't use Ghostring against a clown/gypsy. Sure, having the best range of elements to choose from helps but using cursed water/BOS would be just as good for a LK. LK can still threaten with edge. But increasing the coma rate of edge is another topic...

Also with more and more reductions now at days it has to get increased and at the time do not reduce the damage that the user does. Even now with Frigg shield on the way. Someone will say: “But few people have Frigg Shields” ,Before Hand Answer: “ Son or late will be a lot on the market like how it happened to Emperium Auras when was released”

Yes, reduction equipments are on the rise, but this benefits everyone, including LKs.

People that will complain about this will say: "Lord Knight has a lot of Hp and an Ygg capacity" and beforehand I will answer: ”And you can’t storage in the middle of the battle?” (if you don’t know how I had bad news for you…) the only area in which it can’t be done is Player vs. Player leader,

Storaging in the middle of a battle doesn't concern this. Plus, it affects a variety of other events like LMS, LTS, GVG, etc. I like to keep my duels clean.

Lord Knights aren’t a evasive class they don’t evade like Assassin Cross, Stalkers, Gypsies and champions we just have 3 offensive skills: Spiral Pierce, Bowling Bash and Spear Boomerang.

Evasion plays almost no role in this server unless you choose to be a high flee/high PD character. Almost every class has 3 primary, offensive skills. Clown/gpysy: AV, melody strike, tarot; Assassin: Grimtooth, SB, and melee-ing; Champion: TSS, asura, occult impact (lol); Sniper: DS, FAS; etc.

Also if someone says: "You just show the calculation on -55% why not on 0%?", Beforehand answer: "because if goes dual weapon that is you business if want to lose your defense or bad luck if got striped"To conclude the Lord Knight Halberd’s Spiral Pierce Damage was good how it was. To return the population, Player vs. Player and Balance primarily.

Regardless of choosing not to wear a shield, hitting 16k-18k*5 like 3 times in a second on a character with no shield is ridiculous, imo.

and I agree with overrated and som.

Edited November 15, 2010 by Forum~

[Cirrus]

I agree with Forum~, Perishable, and OverRated, and I will also put my thoughts into every argument jorgesilvera has put up.

• Noob Lord Knight population has decreased, that influx of Lord Knights were only skill-less, over-powered-item-abusing players.
• 8000-9000*5 damage with unlimited spam on a character with over 300k HP on 1 Tao, speed and weight bonuses, without sacrificing a shield for damage is not okay. As Forum~ said, you could do about 3 per second, and that's 120-135k dps.
• Using a Kobold Archer Cap opens up vulnerabilities on a Clown/Gypsy (blind, vulnerable to stone curse, if not one of those 2, they're not using 3 Kiels and therefore cannot spam.) LKs can do the equivalent damage while still being protected from one of those vulnerabilities.
• What Forum~ said about GR, and Edge.
• To be honest, too much damage is sickening. All you'll get are full-damage noobs spamming berries hoping you'll die. I.E. recent LKs who forgot about any other skill other than Spiral Pierce. Frigg's has nothing to do with how LKs still have great damage.. Their effective HP would even be improved with the Frigg's Shield (reducts, high HP per VIT modifier, %HP.)
• Storaging in the middle of the battle is bad practice, everyone should have some understanding about the economy of their yggs. There's an unwritten rule about what you bring, if that runs out, you'd have lost that fight (futhermore, this really happens in LMS, LTS, GvG, and the PvP Room.) When I fought Supreamus in for_fild01, I ran out of berries and conceded, even though I could have just restocked, because that's how real duels are fought. Your argument also didn't help how they still have 300k HP or more.
• So... Assassin Cross & Stalker's don't have as much HP to tank as a Lord Knight, and Clowns & Gypsies give up a cloak slot to put in an Assassin Cross card. They're not really an evasive class, you think? Put on a SinX card, voila! An evasion skill on an LK! And you still can tank a bullshit-ton of damage thrown at you with your HP.
• There's no point in mentioning main offensive skills, because as Forum~ said, every single class only has a limited useful skill set. A Clown/Gypsy's Sling Arrow isn't even that effective, they're basically stuck with Arrow Vulcan & Tarot, and if they go Soaring Bird, they lose Arrow Vulcan and go for DS/Tarot. LKs are well balanced, good damage melee skill, ranged skill, a push skill, knockback skill, status skill, et cetera.
• Assassin Crosses get their damage by giving up their shield. 8-9k per Spiral Pierce * 5 * 3 a second while wearing a shield does not, and I repeat, does not, compare to a SinX doing 8~11k per hit, multiplied by 2 on a 50% chance, wearing a shield. Spiral Pierce doing 120-135k per second (40-45k per hit, the total of the skill is instantly dealt) is by far the worst damage I've ever had to berry through on proper gear since being thrown Thanatos-effect TSS (that's because I was tanking Asura as well.)

Lord Knights have it great already. I don't think the staff would lower it that much without testing. I'd still hate it fighting a skilled LK at this level of damage, but it's balanced as it is. If it's about balancing, I say, close this thread. If it's about participation, hell, step up your game and learn to play Lord Knight. Don't rely on cheap over-powered tricks so you get a sliver of hope in winning. I still have three LK Halberds, and I'm not letting them go, they're still too good to pass up if I really want to get into LK that deep.

If you're wondering what the other bonuses are, here, be my guest and see.

Lord Knight Black Halberd

Class: Spear (Spear skills yay.)

Attack: 600 (Elite 1h LK Spear: 100)

Weight: 200 (Elite:500)

STR + 20 (Elite: 5)

DEX + 10 (Elite: 5)

Max HP + 15%

17% more damage to demi-humans (Elite:7%)

And that's it for my input. Good day.

Edited November 15, 2010 by Cirrus

[Ryuk]

I also disagree with adding more damage to the Lord Knight Halberd. Most arguements have already been given. ^ I completely agree with Cirrus on this one.

[Adamxd]

Well I agree with boosting it to 150% because I dont really care if I have to use ygg 1 second earlier to survive. No problem for Meh

[Jordan L]

I agree with Jorge because we had to donate for that weapons before, and now just changing the effect with not asking the opinion of other players, i think that is just unfair.

[Superman^*]

Rant won't get you anywhere. As you see, the lkh it's suppose to nerf coma effect not the spiral pierce boost...

[OverRated]

but majority of the peopel who complaned about the coma also complained about the damage. hitting 12k each hit with a nonstop spam isnt fair at all

[Roky]

hmm... i agree with jorge.. cause as you can see. LKhalberd only increases spiral pierce thats why i think jorge only mentioned spiral pierce.... and as of bowling bash, does it really dealt a good damage (i dont think so)

and for the other donation weapon. i think those weapons really maximize the power of other char...

at first. LKhalberd having 200% with coma. ill say that it must be nurf.

but making it having 100% damage... its like, its unfair...

well.. this is my opinion... ^^

[OverRated]

You guys are legit just mad that people out voted you and you got your high damage taken off. All everyone does is complain about how the game is so unfair because your prised damage had dropped to a good % to where an lk is possible to kill and is balanced. BB is a good skill. Ask Aura and Supreamus they do high damage on LK even before the new weps where even made. So dont QQ cause finally a lk does enough damage and still has buffs. You guys can out tank ever single class. You have 300k + with only 1 tao. And ontop you have amazing buffs for yourself.I see lks doing 8k spiral so why is 8k not enough? How about we just give every lk 20k damage each and also give champs 999k auto asura. Gen put major thought into the new patch and overall it was a good choice. There are still amazing lks playin but if you keep QQing about 1 small thing you tend to lose think the class sucks overall. I tested the Halbred today i played on a Lk and i did good enough damage. 8k damage on usak+fshield was beast. + the amazing spam that is included onto this class. You dont get affected by stone curse and before the wep players used BB skill and spiral still even before the wep came out. So its possible to play the class without the wep as due you can play the class and win with +100% spiral.

[supream]

you got up to 8k? i gotta see that. i can only get 7.5k max if i go full spiral(which i dont do often, maybe close to never).

[Forum~]

The way I see it, the only boost LK needs from that weapon is more SP... like a flat 150-200 SP boost on the weapon.

[D.Vampire]

The way I see it, the only boost LK needs from that weapon is more SP... like a flat 150-200 SP boost on the weapon.

I couldn't agree more with you.

[OverRated]

you got up to 8k? i gotta see that. i can only get 7.5k max if i go full spiral(which i dont do often, maybe close to never).

i went full spiral with +str cards on helms and stuff