Ad Bottles

[Rayray]

i do not know if this has been suggested before but I think AD bottles cost so much. Yeah, zeny is easy enough to get but still, having to buy bottles just to pvp and such would, in some time, be annoying if you do not have enough zeny. I do not really know why AD should be consumable when the skill is so easily counterable by fcp and GR+usakoring shield/ deviling. I know i might be bashed here but at least I think lowering the AD bottles cost some more would help players, especially new ones, and actually boost the creator class a little(instead of making 2/3 of their population fcp slaves). To be honest, I would rather have them like our arrows and bullets here, but if that would be too much then just lower the cost a little bit more.

so my suggestion is

1. make it like our arrows here(unlimited) but give it a penalty perhaps?(weight? i dunno)

2. Make it cost a little less than now where it isn't much of a hindrance

[supream]

i suggested it and was rejected cause they said it would cripple the zeny economy. which to me dosent make any sense because zeny is worthless now anyways. i always thought it was based off of donation coupons not zeny, but they know best.

[Rayray]

yeah I do not get that actually. they might be referring to people selling coupons to get zeny for them to use AD but it isn't exactly what everyone does

it costs 15k each on stalker discount so that is 300k on 20 bottles x 2 = 600k on 20 casts of AD. what other class waste zeny that much on just using skills. WS only waste 5k on each CT and the others do not have to. btw creators have to spam it so they are spamming their zeny too.

Edited September 18, 2010 by ZerO25

[Veracity]

If you read the rest of the topic, particularly Supreme and Cirrus' posts, I think they explain what the problem with decreasing the cost of AD bottles would be rather nicely.

For easier reference:

No, because:

1. They are very much affordable

2. It would cripple our zeny economy even further.

I have to agree with Supreme.

Zeny comes in quick, but exits the economy rather slowly. Our main Zeny sinks are decarding, the AD bottles (unless they're made), and broadcasting. And decarding/purchase of AD bottles is done mostly by PvPers, and not a lot play Creator as well.

If you're in much a pinch, try buying them with a Stalker w/ Compulsion Discount. That's 25% off. (:

Zeny is good mainly for the newer crowd, something that they can and know how to farm. I believe the incident that you are talking about is because of a zeny glitch, causing an influx of billions of zeny. Generally people will not choose zeny over donation coupons.

Edited September 18, 2010 by Veracity

[Guest xonchu]

Creators have carts regarding the AD bottles weight, i wouldnt agree on the unlimited thing. But i would agree on reducing the cost of AD bottles. Nowadays, i see AD having same damages like the arrow type classes(sometimes lower). True AD is counterable by that but it would break the armor of the enemy by chance. So it would deplete the +10 stat on the Fking set.

[plotus2]

I agree to reduce the AD bottles price. I need at least 3m for 1 round of fight.

Edited September 18, 2010 by plotus2

[Rayray]

^

try fighting in lms or somewhere else and see how much it would cost you. creators have carts, yes but making them weigh more means less yggs to carry anyway.

I cannot understand how it would affect zeny so much when we only buy it from an NPC. it's not like new players create AD bottles and sell them by the bulk. Since they also said that not a lot of guys/girls use creator anyway so how will that affect the zeny economy so much to cripple it if about 1/32 of the population is a creator?

[supream]

other servers dont have these things at these prices. how many creators do u see playing anyways. what would lower the cost of these do to anyone? hurt new players? the players here do a good of enough job doing that as it is. ad bottles are not directly intertwined with donation coupons anyways, so lowering their cost wont hurt the zeny. considering i guess u guys are assuming that new players just buy donation coupons with zeny and that lowering the cost of ad bottles will raise the cost of donation coupons somehow.

Edited September 18, 2010 by supream

[Rayray]

broadcasting already hurts my zeny stock :)) buying 1k AD bottles for 20k x 2 = 40,000,00. 1k bottles actually would be out in a few hours of pvp.

[bankai`]

Yea I agree to tbs suggestion, creator use to be my main I eventually quit cretor because buying ad bottle was becoming worst the buying ygg believe it or not but I spent more money buyng ad bottles then ygg..

[Rayray]

reduce the price at least where we do not waste 3m on 100 casts

[Primo]

uhh i think there is a class that makes the prices cheaper or something

might wanna try that

but Creator is an expensive class just as if Champ is for players well geared

[Rayray]

champ doesn't cost 3m per fight to use. yggs are so abundant in the server to be compared to it. if it can be hunted i won't suggest it but it isn't.

stalkers reduce the price to 15k per bottle. 100 of each bottle would amount to 3m. every fight when I use creator, I have to farm stone of sage after it

[Guest xonchu]

money can also be hunted easy ._.

[Phenomenon]

I disagree, their is a huge influx of zeny already as it is, and making zeny from 0 is REALLY easy, if you take the time to actually work for it. Acid Demonstration does HUGE damage on non-ghost type MvPs, and would facilitate MvPing and creator survival, as a near limitless supply of Acid Demonstration would be present in their storage. It's not necessarily a bad idea to facilitate acid demonstration for creators in my opinion, but zeny is SO easy to get, that I find it rather pointless to cater to laziness.

[Rayray]

still, not every class uses millions just to pvp. as creators use yggs too, we pvp using more zeny(if we buy yggs or dcoupons to buy yggs) than any other class. it is not to cater laziness, but rather practicality on the part of creators which are rarely used in pvp, almost all the creators I know are just fcpers. and I really cannot see the point of "influx" in zeny. do you guys still expect that the zeny economy would get better? again we creators are the ONLY ones who buys items so that we could use one skill and per cast it costs us 30k(thinking we used stalkers to buy the bottles) AND creators are so few, how the hell with that cost influx if only about 10 creators would benefit from it(stating that I only know and see 10 creators that actually use the class to pvp).

fighting decent people, 100+ bottles wouldn't kill him if he is sane enough to get fcp or use unbreakable armor with gr,usakoring shield and deviling, unlike most classes who can pretty much kill people even if they use that. Snipers can deal as much as damage as one cast of AD and yet their arrows are unlimited and DS is just as spammable as AD without needing Kiels.

See my point? Making AD cost a lot(for newer guys and some of us who aren't billionaires in this game or have the time to hunt stone of sage and/or armor just to be able to buy bottles) actually makes us think twice of using the class. mos people think it is cheap because it is like 20k per bottle(40k just for a cast of AD) but as if we could kill with just one to two casts of it. stone of sages cost 50k when sold, meaning just for one cast of AD we have to hunt one stone of sage. i know people say we could always hunt, but not all of us got the time. just lower it a bit, I am not asking too much, just not 3m per fight(normally i use up 100+ bottles in a few minutes of pvp mind you and i can only kill few people)

[Phenomenon]

I can hunt 1m zeny in under 2 minutes, so I disagree with the statement that the price is detering people from using the class. People just want the easy road out, instead of actually taking the time to be productive and work towards a goal.

[Forum~]

i say make ad bottles like arrows. creators are a rare animal on this server. i agree with zero.

[Phenomenon]

Having an arrow does not automatically give a sniper any sort of edge. Your damage will be next to nothing without a decent weapon. A creator only needs acid demonstration and high intelligence to do high damage on enemies, and begin to break equipment. Limitless Acid Demonstration is out of the question in my opinion, not only does this skill break armors and weapons, but stun locks enemies and forces the enemy to default neutral reducing equipment. Acid Demonstration should run out in non-command situations, just like healing items would. Otherwise, @storage is easily useable. I can't believe ANYONE here really believes people don't use creators because of the price or constant need of bottles. Arrows are easily makeable in official servers, while bottle grenades and acid bottles are not. Acid Demonstration is a luxury and dangerous in PvP type sitatuions, as the creator is 100% likely to outlast anyone's FCP as long as they live and their enemy is not another creator. Creators are in the class of professors/high wizards, highly dangerous but easily countered. In order to create balance I believe an HP boost in Tao and an increase in mammomite damage is in order, not giving them limitless access to a dangerous skill, and certainly not an unncessary price drop in supplies, it's EASY to make zeny.

Edit : I mean for god's sake, even if they were to have limitless acid demonstration, a creator without thanatos (which is many) are instantly nullified with a simply equipment change and their offensive skills aren't very powerful, if you want to make creators more widely used, diversify their offensive skills, not create limitless access to a dangerous skill.

Edited September 22, 2010 by Phenomenon

[bankai`]

I agree........Because really do we really have to pay to use a skill and don't compare to mammonite because 15k each is alittle too rediculous.

[Xtopher]

Ok I read the original post and skimmed some of the replies but this is what I think:

I disagree with making it where the skill doesn't consume the bottles.

I agree with reducing the price for the bottles. My reasoning is economically driven.... People have said that one of the main zeny drains IS these bottles... However, I hardly see any creators using the skills often. I say drop the price a bit and you give people more incentive to play creator (it's cheaper). With more creators roaming around more bottles will be purchased and more zeny will be drained. By keeping the price high you kill the incentive for some people to play creator because they do not wish to pay the high price. By lowering it you will keep the current number of creators and in addition potentially gain new ones who were sensitive to the price of the bottles.

Edited September 23, 2010 by Xtopher

[Rayray]

thanks for the input xtopher

[bankai`]

Well said my dudee

[Shadi]

I agree with reducing the price for the bottles. My reasoning is economically driven.... People have said that one of the main zeny drains IS these bottles... However, I hardly see any creators using the skills often. I say drop the price a bit and you give people more incentive to play creator (it's cheaper). With more creators roaming around more bottles will be purchased and more zeny will be drained. By keeping the price high you kill the incentive for some people to play creator because they do not wish to pay the high price. By lowering it you will keep the current number of creators and in addition potentially gain new ones who were sensitive to the price of the bottles.

+1. I completely agree with this. The huge costs of playing creator is one of the two reasons that I don't play the class anymore. I could even agree to making the bottles like arrows. I mean AD is extremely easy to reduce , costs a shitload and requires 3-4 kiels to spam properly. Compare that to sniper and snipers overpower creators by a big load, specially now they can wear shields. I see no reason how this could be "unfair". Yes AD can break gears but seriously, who doesn't have FCP around here ? And all the custom weapons are unbreakable as well...

So.. I agree with making bottles like arrows. If that's too much then at least lower the price by a LOT.

[Poringly]

Ok I read the original post and skimmed some of the replies but this is what I think:

I disagree with making it where the skill doesn't consume the bottles.

I agree with reducing the price for the bottles.

^+1.

and yeh, Creator already has a high damage with the bottle, if we make it Unlimited people will just go Creator and Keep Spammin like hell, and they can run easily with the homunculus. so i think its just needed to lower the price.