Sniper Suggestions

[sessions]

Yeah you can still strip using a bow weapon but they have to be like 1-2 cells away I think. The suggestion is for stripping to work from bows on longer distances than that.

[Ethereal]

Well, i did my own research of Ranged Strip and.. here's the result :

i use my own Sniper and Paladin to do this.

Was my Sniper wearing

1. Baby Leopard Hat ( Divest Helm , 7% Success )

2. Composite bow with 4xMetaling Card ( Divest Wep , 5% ea which mean 20% total )

Or here's my Sniper's equipment : [Link]

and here's my Paladin wearing :

1. Irish Hat for the helm.

2. Pike for the weapon.

#1 Image of the stripping. ( Wep )

#2 Image of the stripping. ( Helm and Wep , but didnt really show the Helm divestment. )

Here's the status of the Paladin Which got stripped.

-----

Sry for any weird language or w/e. >:

Peace :3.

Edit : It take around 10min or less for the Divest skill to come out.

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here but... that just obviously proves that ranged strip doesn't work. 1-2 cell strip is already a natural thing.

Is anything going to happen to the topic? Anyone going to express their thoughts? Agree? Disagree?

[Poringly]

Lol you know what, Ur right. well then, im sry for the inconvenient, but well i do Ranged Strip(Doesn't know if it really happen maybe i was atking him when walkin then go away from the person that looks liek i was doing Ranged Strip)

Lol oh well, Sry Ami.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Poringly

[Ethereal]

Lol you know what, Ur right. well then, im sry for the inconvenient, but well i do Ranged Strip(Doesn't know if it really happen maybe i was atking him when walkin then go away from the person that looks liek i was doing Ranged Strip)

Lol oh well, Sry Ami.

Hey, hey. There's no need to be sorry at all. I wasn't saying anything that was offensive or trying to make you look stupid or anything- and if I did, I apologize for that. And it's no inconvenience at all. If it means anything to you, your post is evidence and proof that ranged strip should be fixed, so it's supporting the topic.

Once again, no need to be sorry.

[Rayray]

making the bow one handed isn't a "boost" it is just to be fair. ANY other class who uses elite weapons are not disadvantaged against people who used donation weapons if they know what they are doing. try fighting a sniper with donation bow using your own sniper with an elite bow and see the difference.

[Ethereal]

making the bow one handed isn't a "boost" it is just to be fair. ANY other class who uses elite weapons are not disadvantaged against people who used donation weapons if they know what they are doing. try fighting a sniper with donation bow using your own sniper with an elite bow and see the difference.

I can see your point where you're coming from with the making the bow 1-handed isn't a 'boost.' That just leaves the question if it is going to be changed at all? I'd really like a confirmation from the GM team or the higher ups.

I understand that some classes who use elite weapons are not disadvantaged against people with donation weapons. But the comparison between a sniper using a donation bow and someone else who uses an elite bow is an extremely dramatic difference.

My sniper currently uses an elite bow (I'd rent but renting all the time completely drains my coupons), and I fought against Kittie and nines' female sniper who both use donation bows. The battle was not pretty at all. I did around 8k DS (8k x2) while they did like 20~23k (x2) DS's on me. As far sharp shooting, they just did around 50~70k on me. I know what I was doing, but YGG'ing through that is absolute hell. The difference between the bows is far too great- especially because the elite bow is 2 handed.

[Rayray]

^

exactly. I fought someone with the donation weapon for sinx and I am using my sinx at that time and I can pretty say I could fight well.. Making the donation weapon a sword for the sinx is a disadvantage in my opinion though.

[Ethereal]

Yeah, I agree. But anyways, I still do honestly believe the elite bow needs to be 1-handed and needs a boost. The boost isn't going to overpower the rental bow or the donation bow at all. It's simply just a way to boost a little damage.

[sessions]

Things in the compilation:

1. Pouring Cards
2. Ankle Snare
3. Ranged Strip
4. Double Strafe
5. Phantasmic Arrow
6. Elite Sniper Dagger
7. Elite Sniper Bow
8. 1-Handed Bows

Right now if you don't have a donation bow you are still completely screwed on sniper.

With donation bow or not these suggestions are still a sure bet for me:

1. Pouring cards working for bow type weapons in general versus only a couple skills. Doesn't increase damage for Focus Arrow Strike, nor Double Strafe so no problem here.

2. Ankle Snare. You shouldn't be able to slide/snap out of these, they are traps thus you should be trapped in them. Donation bow doesn't change this.

3. Ranged Strip...This could be questionable with the donation bow autocasting all types of strip. One idea I thought of was making the long range strip work at like a 5-7 cell max. The current range of a bow is like 14 cells which could be a bit ridiculous being stripped from outside your line of sight with the donation bow. But still I am for this especially to help those still using an elite bow.

5. Phantasmic Arrow. I've dueled champs with and without the donation bow, and if they are smart they can always stay in a pneuma regardless of being stripped or not. Snipers need a way around this.

6. I seriously think a sniper dagger should be added. Since elite bows are 2 handed and at this point long range strip doesn't work so snipers need something to switch to that has increased weight limit and the ability to wear a shield.

7/8. The elite bow still needs buffed. I know Genesis doesn't want to buff the elite weapons but at LEAST make it 1 handed.

About #4 Double Strafe. I don't really think this should be buffed for Donation bow users since they have a nice 40% bonus but it would still be nice to see some sort of improvement for this on elite bows.

Just wanted to keep this topic alive, the donation bow is nice but it doesn't fix everything.

[nines]

Hmmm Everything else is fine to me accept these

1. Traps needa be like pat said.

2. Range strip could be like 6 cells maybe?

3. Phantasmic arrow to be fixed please. Its not a major boost people can always just go in a corner and pneuma or move pneuma over them selfs again.

[Damnascus]

#2 = Overpowered for obvious reasons.

The rest seem fine.

[nines]

Increase the hp of skid trap please its the only way atm to get people out of pneuma and when you shoot it with arrow shower it dies unless you use immat arrow to much of a hassel to switch back and forth just for them to pneuma quick again.

[sessions]

#2 = Overpowered for obvious reasons.

The rest seem fine.

I'm not seeing the obvious reasons why it would be overpowered, if you could explain that would be nice.

Increase the hp of skid trap please its the only way atm to get people out of pneuma and when you shoot it with arrow shower it dies unless you use immat arrow to much of a hassel to switch back and forth just for them to pneuma quick again.

I agree with this also, even if you use this to get a champ out of a pneuma there is hardly enough time to do a few Double Strafes before they get behind another. And that is when you are using an Immaterial Arrow the entire time. When you are forced to use an Immaterial Arrow, Skid Trap, Arrow Shower, switch to a new arrow, and finally get around to Double Strafe them they will definitely have the pneuma back up.

[Ryuk]

As for the changes offered so far...

I can agree on the trap HP (most definitely). Any suggestions on how many arrow shower hits it should be able to take ?

I do not agree at all with the phasmatic arrow change, this would (almost) completely remove the use of pneuma and the people with the donation bow would become even stronger than they already are.

Range strip 6 cells seems fine to me.

I also agree on the ankle snare change , aka not being able to snap or backslide out of it.

And if it means anything (probably not because Genesis already said elite weapons are not going to change) I still completely agree on making the elite bow 1 handed.

However I'd like more input on all of the above suggestions. So far it seems like almost everyone agrees with all the suggestions. It would be good if some people that disagree with the suggestions would elaborate why they disagree.

[Sorrow]

@Ryuk=We're in agreement with almost all the points.

i would just like an enlightment on why Charge Arrow/Phantasmic Arrow would render Pneuma completely useless...i mean...Pneuma would still stop regular ranged attacks, Double Strifing, Falcon Assault, Sharp Shooting, Throw Spirit Spheres, Acid Demonstration, Stave Crasher, Grimtooth, Soul Breaker, Arrow Vulcan, Spear Boomerang, Arrow Shower, Rapid Smiting, Sling Arrow, Throw Tomahawk, Flying Kick, Charge Attack...

Excruciating Palm is a meelee skill that pushes people out of Safety Wall...yet, Safety Wall can hardly be considered useless...being Pneuma Safety Wall's sister, i think the same logic applies.

[nines]

please say your being sarcastic sorrow...

[Ryuk]

i would just like an enlightment on why Charge Arrow/Phantasmic Arrow would render Pneuma completely useless...

It would render pneuma useless because phantasmic arrow has no delay, as soon as you use one pneuma you'll be knocked out. Yes pneuma still works vs other classes, yet versus snipers (Pneuma is supposed to be best vs snipers) it would be completely useless. If we just enlarge the hp of ankle snare/skid traps then you'll have a way to push them out of pneuma. but phantasmic arrow would be way too easy and way too overpowered to pierce pneuma.

Excruciating Palm is a meelee skill that pushes people out of Safety Wall...yet, Safety Wall can hardly be considered useless..

Champions can't take someone out within 4 seconds at a 7 tile distance between the champion and the player. Because they only have 1 ranged skill. Snipers however (especially with the new bow) can take out people that fast.

[Sorrow]

Pneuma is fine being efficient against snipers, but it wasn't supposed to make them completely useless. Just look up to the fact that on official servers(kRO/iRO) Phantasmic Arrow/Charge Arrow does pierce pneuma. Also i still believe the best combination of armor cards to fight a Clown/Sniper is RSX+Tao.

This combination(Pneuma+RSX/Strong Shield) makes snipers sit&cry as it is, you can use as much skid traps as you want. With PA/CA piercing pneuma they'd at least cause damage...as low as it might be.

Also, you shouldn't understimate Snap...that skill makes range completely meaningless to Champs. Snap+EP+Asura kills your average wizzard in less than 4 seconds...

BTW; Pneuma wouldn't be such a bother if only Priests could use it. Champs are already powerhouses with their extremely high damage, they really didn't need such a powerful defensive skill to boot.

@nines=i know its rare, but i was actually being serious on that one ^^" you're welcome to give me your point of view as well, who knows mine changes based on what you tell me :D

[nines]

Well, I agree that phantasmic arrow should knock people out of pneuma, But since like ryuk is saying it is 100% spamable maybe make it so theres a 1 second delay after using it but no delay so you can't use any other skills. Or keep it spamable and make it so it has a half second cast time on it change up the play style keep it balanced, make it so people can switch beelzebubs to get instant and then switch to full dmg etc etc.

Agree, Disagree?

[Ravage]

theres too many posts to read already..

1) disagree somewhat. they shouldnt change what it affects because even more classes will be using them. However, increasing its modification to 20% would be ideal. Whats the point in sacrificing def for damage if they arent the same?

if you look at it in an applied scenario where everything is consistent(the same gears and buffs and builds) except for the subject:

immune + immune vs pouring + pouring would be an even match against eachother. HOWEVER they still both have their own advantages and disadvantages in other situations.

2) Disagree. They're meant to be able to use certain skills! But if you notice they're still limited in what they do. you KNOW what they're gonna do to escape. thats what traps are for, to give you control of the situation by knowing whats gon happen.

I DO HOWEVER THINK THEY NEED TO INCREASE TRAPS HP! they arent supposed to break in 1 magnum break. thats just rediculous. LKs have charge attack and palys have that skill that knock back long range attackers. Snap is hax, it was meant to be...

3) agree, but not too far!! as far as AV can go, i never counted.

4) Disagree, the issue was a lack of shield for the sniper to take just as low damage. do somethign bout elite wep?

5) Disagree, thats too hax. Use the normal way for pneuma.. DS's range is longer than TSS for that reason.

*edit* make arrow shower work through pneuma again. you used to be able to arrow shower right beside pneuma to move the person 1 cell out and into your attack.

6) i dont want a dagger, buff my bow more please.

7) disagree, add significant reducts to it tho. -20% physical -20% magic? 1-hand elite bow defeats the purpose of the soaring bow and snipers are awesome in ND even without a shield. The crazy damage bonuses that the donor belts give arent in ND pvp so its more like normal RO.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Ravage

[Sorrow]

Well, I agree that phantasmic arrow should knock people out of pneuma, But since like ryuk is saying it is 100% spamable maybe make it so theres a 1 second delay after using it but no delay so you can't use any other skills. Or keep it spamable and make it so it has a half second cast time on it change up the play style keep it balanced, make it so people can switch beelzebubs to get instant and then switch to full dmg etc etc.

Agree, Disagree?

Agreed with you :D after all, i don't want anything overpowered, i just want a chance. i still believe that any manuever that has no counter is broken and needs fixing assap. Pneuma+RSX/Strong Shield has no counter for snipers; they're the only class redered completely useless by a single skill.

Alternatively to your cast time/cool off time, there could be a chance of knock back, like 20~30%. But the cast time/cool off seems more doable.

[Ravage]

if you look at what your trying to do to phantasmic arrow, thats what arrow shower used to be. Arrow shower just doesnt go through pneuma anymore. arrow repel used to too actually...

well here's why

"Note that only damage is blocked by Pneuma; other effects like Stun and knockback will retain their abilities. It is therefore possible to use Arrow Repel to knock a player out of a Pneuma and into harm's way" - irowiki

Edited August 26, 2010 by Ravage

[Veracity]

Suggestion 1 (Pouring Card): We can definitely do this.

Suggestion 2 (Ankle Snare): This isn't an option at this time since it would require source editing.

Suggestion 3 (Ranged Strip): We can look into fixing this if possible given the current circumstances.

Suggestion 4 (Double Strafe): We can't do any skill edits, but we can release/edit items and card effects to improve the overall damage.

Suggestion 5 (Phantasmic Arrow): This can't be done at this time.

Suggestion 6 (Elite Sniper Dagger): This is a possibility, we could add something like this though it would not be any time soon.

Suggestion 7 (Elite Sniper Bow) and Suggestion 8 (1-Handed Elite Sniper Bow): We are not editing any of the elite weapons at this time but this may change in the future.

- Altering pouring card/increasing bow damage for snipers, looking into fixing ranged strip (if possible at this time), and possibly adding an Elite Sniper Dagger eventually are Accepted. -

- The rest of the suggestions are not doable at this time and are therefore Rejected. -