nines Posted July 10, 2010 Report Posted July 10, 2010 Alright this is one that pisses me off the most, people can just go in asura people who have orc lords on over and over, put full reflect gear on and get kills and be like 1000 kills 900 Deaths and STILL WIN? why did we stop the kill death ratio check? to much work??? seriously makes it so people can cheat ladder so much easir. For example what some people do right infront of my face and its easy to tell they do it to. ima describe the scenario for you Im in pvp I kill the feeder once she comes back in defaulting gtb im not even touching her you can tell she has gtb on cause shes getting hit by 15k tosses with gtb 11k with usako. She keeps coming in getting tossed slaps on orc lords and eats asuras keeps coming back in to get killed by the same guy over and over, the guy whos laddering is dieing with her getting kills that aren't earned at all. It would be understandable to go negative if your being ganged but this guy has a gang with him and still does it, and still goes a ratio of around 30 deaths less than his kills in the hundreds. Oh yes btw I frapsd this guy cheating before and got him banned but since the unban just felt like doing it again. (I know just say fraps it again well people learn how to cheat infront of ur face obviously ^^^) The kill death ratio of 60% should be reinstalled this shit all started when boss got like 1200 kills and 1400 deaths and won...i don't know if lazyness happened or they just let there friend win or what...makes no sense. I know i know ego filled rant of you just being a sore looser? No just fed up of this retarded abusive shit people like well bad example ming deserve to win yes he had the hide out buffer and just got most of his kills off woe...actually 90% of his kills of woe but still he went like 1000:19? thats a ratio that deserves to win, he could be easly counterd to with magnetic earth point is still point. IN SHORT please for the love of jesus/god/buddah/moses/alah/krishna/RA/Odin/Zues bring this rule back into effect.!
Exhibition Posted July 10, 2010 Report Posted July 10, 2010 Alright this is one that pisses me off the most, people can just go in asura people who have orc lords on over and over, put full reflect gear on and get kills and be like 1000 kills 900 Deaths and STILL WIN? why did we stop the kill death ratio check? to much work??? seriously makes it so people can cheat ladder so much easir. For example what some people do right infront of my face and its easy to tell they do it to. ima describe the scenario for you Im in pvp I kill the feeder once she comes back in defaulting gtb im not even touching her you can tell she has gtb on cause shes getting hit by 15k tosses with gtb 11k with usako. She keeps coming in getting tossed slaps on orc lords and eats asuras keeps coming back in to get killed by the same guy over and over, the guy whos laddering is dieing with her getting kills that aren't earned at all. It would be understandable to go negative if your being ganged but this guy has a gang with him and still does it, and still goes a ratio of around 30 deaths less than his kills in the hundreds. Oh yes btw I frapsd this guy cheating before and got him banned but since the unban just felt like doing it again. (I know just say fraps it again well people learn how to cheat infront of ur face obviously ^^^) The kill death ratio of 60% should be reinstalled this shit all started when boss got like 1200 kills and 1400 deaths and won...i don't know if lazyness happened or they just let there friend win or what...makes no sense. I know i know ego filled rant of you just being a sore looser? No just fed up of this retarded abusive shit people like well bad example ming deserve to win yes he had the hide out buffer and just got most of his kills off woe...actually 90% of his kills of woe but still he went like 1000:19? thats a ratio that deserves to win, he could be easly counterd to with magnetic earth point is still point. IN SHORT please for the love of jesus/god/buddah/moses/alah/krishna/RA/Odin/Zues bring this rule back into effect.! 100% agree. It would take 15 seconds, or less, to pull out a calculator and figure out if the winning player had the required kill : death ration in order to qualify for the wing prize. I think we make it too easy for people to go into WoE/PvP Room and basically commit suicide, which takes no skill and minimal effort, and come out with a large number of kills off of Orc Lords. Give me a reason why they should not bring it back?
Adamxd Posted July 10, 2010 Report Posted July 10, 2010 (edited) It was discussed already thousands times. http://forum.forsaken-ro.net/index.php?showtopic=16788 Edited July 10, 2010 by Adamxd
Shadi Posted July 10, 2010 Report Posted July 10, 2010 For some people this might be one of the only ways to get higher up in the rankings. Why do you want all fully geared and overpowered people to get an even bigger advantage with laddering through this change ? You either win ladder or you don't. How you do it doesn't matter (as long as you're not cheating) , using Orc lords is not cheating, and the players fighting this orc lord user should be able to kill him easily without killing themselfs.
Kittie Posted July 10, 2010 Report Posted July 10, 2010 I think if that's the only way they can get higher up in the rankings, then the obviously don't deserve PVP ladder prizes.
Cirrus Posted July 10, 2010 Report Posted July 10, 2010 I think if that's the only way they can get higher up in the rankings, then the obviously don't deserve PVP ladder prizes. I agree with Kittie!
Ethereal Posted July 10, 2010 Report Posted July 10, 2010 I think if that's the only way they can get higher up in the rankings, then the obviously don't deserve PVP ladder prizes. IAWTC too.
Perishable Posted July 10, 2010 Report Posted July 10, 2010 W]-[y n0 +hin|(!!? Why d0n't y0u 6uy5 wa/\/t /\/ewbies t0 |adder an|) 6e+ 6ear up? u pros wan da best 4 u guiz. waaa jaaa keeekeeeekeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. As long as they are ranking top 1 by friday and not cheating, they win. The ratio might be hard. The rules stayed like this for awhile, I say we just leave it. wakekekekkee............. I Agree with what shadi's saying.
Anarii Posted July 10, 2010 Report Posted July 10, 2010 (edited) Well.. I'm going to have to say no for this one. PvP ladder is not really just a test of skill, it's more a test of devotion and hard work. what you are talking about with the feeding/orc lord stuff is called CHEATING, which if no GM etc is willing to step up and catch it nothing will happen. To make it reachable for all players, there shouldn't be a kd ratio. And plus, a huge reason is simply because it wouldn't be fair since it's been like this since who knows when. Edited July 10, 2010 by Anarii
Perishable Posted July 10, 2010 Report Posted July 10, 2010 Well.. I'm going to have to say no for this one. PvP ladder is not just a test of skill, it's a test of devotion and hard work. what you are talking about with the feeding/orc lord stuff is called CHEATING, which if no GM etc is willing to step up and catch it nothing will happen. To make it reachable for all players, there shouldn't be a kd ratio. And plus, a huge reason is simply because it wouldn't be fair since it's been like this since who knows when. Exactly! There shouldn't be a kill ratio. Just devote and hard work. Excluding cheaters
Kittie Posted July 10, 2010 Report Posted July 10, 2010 I don't think it should be "reachable for all players". I think there needs to be an element of exclusivity for those who truly can achieve the kill:death ratio to win a pair of wings. Someone with clearly no life just camps PVP and participates in every WOE for a week with a double OL armor defaulted, and dies as much as they kill is not hard work - just mindless walking into PVP and hoping someone asuras him/her. I really don't think someone like that should get wings - but they can get the ygg prize and such, to restock since they did devote a lot of time to get to the top. But yeah..."reachable for all players"? Come on. This isn't a kindergarten lesson where we teach everyone that each player is equal. Because, to be frank, they aren't.
Anarii Posted July 10, 2010 Report Posted July 10, 2010 (edited) I'll agree that "all" players was a bit of exaggeration on my part, but anyone willing to spend THAT much time deserves to get them. and no, nobody gets 2000 kills through suicides and if someone does (if to the same person very excessively) is usually considered cheating. Like I said, people who work hard shouldn't be overshadowed by those who aren't legit and like I said, if nobody is willing to step up and catch these people then nothing will happen. but I do see where you're going at, so what i'm proposing is that the kills should be higher than deaths to receive wings Edited July 10, 2010 by Anarii
Kittie Posted July 10, 2010 Report Posted July 10, 2010 (edited) Maybe making a reference to suicides (double OL asuraing) was a bad example. I've seen Gunslingers make 2nd place with having 12xx kills and 9xx deaths. That's not great PVPing in my opinion, espcially when the first place winner was another Gunslinger who had around the same kills (lower 1300s) and under 100 deaths. It'd be a slap in the face if the Gunslinger with the massive amount of deaths was got first place and a pair of wings. The Gunslinger who actually won first not only played the same class, but killed a marginal amount more, and died significantly less. That ratio would clearly be over the 60% ratio that is in the Hall of Fame thread. And [EDIT]: Yes, kills should be higher than deaths, but I think a percentage needs to be attached and actually enforced. It can't be like, 1 kill more than their death count to win. I liked the 60% idea, but the Hall of Fame thread words it very vaguely. Perhaps an edit of that thread should be made to clarify the requirements to win the prizes. I've helped someone ladder before, and we were all confused about the ratio until someone told us the GMs don't really pay attention to it - whoever wins first usually gets the whole package. Edited July 10, 2010 by Kittie
nines Posted July 10, 2010 Author Report Posted July 10, 2010 Well even a 40% enforcement would be fine because if theres people who are basically going negative or equaling up on there kills and deaths thats just beyond stupid...
Ryuk Posted July 11, 2010 Report Posted July 11, 2010 Fully geared people already have huge advantages over less geared players, I don't think we should make the gap between these two groups even bigger than it already is.
Nadtorious Posted July 11, 2010 Report Posted July 11, 2010 IN SHORT please for the love of jesus/god/buddah/moses/alah/krishna/RA/Odin/Zues bring this rule back into effect.! ^ / :thumbsup_still: <--- Big LOL . I think if the ratio is 1:2 the player shouldn't be counted as a winner.
nines Posted July 11, 2010 Author Report Posted July 11, 2010 Yah, as I said Ryuk even a 40% k/d ratio would be fine...and geard people are the only ones that ladder if anyone sees an un geard person ladder they go and ladder for an easy win.
Kittie Posted July 23, 2010 Report Posted July 23, 2010 I think this picture helps support the suggestion: Clearly, the player currently in second place, although he is fairly close to first place, if he were to win should not get the exclusive PVP wings since his death to kill ratio is horrible. In comparison to the currently-in-first-place player who has less than 100 deaths? I think PVP is not only about getting kills, but is also about survival. If everyone went full-damage builds, of course they could get kills, but winning matches and rarely dying demonstrates skill and knowledge of what equipment to use in certain situations and so forth.
Phenomenon Posted July 23, 2010 Report Posted July 23, 2010 I think a 2:1 requirement in order to receive the special pvp wings would be acceptable. It requires more than just being able to kill someone to claim them, IMO.
supream Posted July 23, 2010 Report Posted July 23, 2010 I think this picture helps support the suggestion: Clearly, the player currently in second place, although he is fairly close to first place, if he were to win should not get the exclusive PVP wings since his death to kill ratio is horrible. In comparison to the currently-in-first-place player who has less than 100 deaths? I think PVP is not only about getting kills, but is also about survival. If everyone went full-damage builds, of course they could get kills, but winning matches and rarely dying demonstrates skill and knowledge of what equipment to use in certain situations and so forth. what were the old rules? if deaths were half or greater then the amount of kills you couldnt get the wings? if thats what they were then that guy would still win if he came in first.
nines Posted July 23, 2010 Author Report Posted July 23, 2010 The old rules was ur deaths can't be 60% of your kills.
Xtopher Posted July 23, 2010 Report Posted July 23, 2010 (edited) I think this picture helps support the suggestion: Clearly, the player currently in second place, although he is fairly close to first place, if he were to win should not get the exclusive PVP wings since his death to kill ratio is horrible. In comparison to the currently-in-first-place player who has less than 100 deaths? I think PVP is not only about getting kills, but is also about survival. If everyone went full-damage builds, of course they could get kills, but winning matches and rarely dying demonstrates skill and knowledge of what equipment to use in certain situations and so forth. I wouldn't say this is so "clear". A number of things could have gone on here... You say pvp is about getting winning matches and rarely dying but from what I've seen in pvp it's usually a gang of guys helping one person collect kills for ladder. How does this demonstrate the winners true ability to pvp? PVP means "player verses player" not "Me and my friends vs player". In my opinion someone who collects just as many kills by himself but dies more deserves a reward before the guy that just had his buddies help him out and keep him alive. If pvp rooms only allowed two people in them then maybe I would agree with a ratio, but the way they are right now it's not always so "clear" as to how they got those kills or kept a low death rate. I'm not trying to offend anyone or anything... I'm just giving my viewpoint on it... Edited July 23, 2010 by Xtopher
Kittie Posted July 23, 2010 Report Posted July 23, 2010 (edited) To clarify some more for you then, if you haven't been in PVP this week (and since I purposely took out the names), Both top two players had "friends" help them whenever they were in PVP. That second place player PVP'ed with a devoting paladin, and from time to time, I saw him with a Tarot spamming clown. The first place player also had a group for FCP, Tarot, the occasional devo and other classes. I remember on Friday it was pretty evenly matched party-wise. I just think its super lame when someone wins with 50% deaths, and they think they're great players. Especially when all they did was spend too much time on the computer. Edited July 23, 2010 by Kittie
Memory Posted July 28, 2010 Report Posted July 28, 2010 I can agree on some sort of 'ratio or percentage' being required to win. I remember someone had gotten a top 3 slot with 1 more kill than death. It's not right in my opinion. Even if it's group vs Player, group vs group or whatever that is a little excessive.
Xtopher Posted July 29, 2010 Report Posted July 29, 2010 I just think its super lame when someone wins with 50% deaths, and they think they're great players. Especially when all they did was spend too much time on the computer. Well, it may be "lame" but you still can not accurately judge how someone earned their kill/death ratio just from the numbers alone. I think that its "lame" that a couple of well geared players can stand around in pvp and help a friend wrack up hundreds of kills and keep them from dieing at the same time. It is quite possible that someone with 50% deaths worked even harder than someone with 15%. I also feel that if a person devotes that much time to it then they deserve to be rewarded. I can agree on some sort of 'ratio or percentage' being required to win. I remember someone had gotten a top 3 slot with 1 more kill than death. It's not right in my opinion. Even if it's group vs Player, group vs group or whatever that is a little excessive. I could agree with maybe being disqualified if your deaths reached 80-90% of your kills, but not 50%.
