Stave Crasher - Element Change

[ginkgo]

Alright so, I have noticed that the major pvp spots in the server have a good amount of assassins/champs/pally/Knight/alch and recently i started to notice a bunch of proffs which is great! But sadly i have yet to see 1 High Wizard Openly PvPing. I mean i have even seen Priests using holy light and doing pretty well in PvP.

I have noticed that all classes have 1 major skill they each capitalize on in in order to PvP excluding Profs.

They go as follows.

Assassin Cross - Enchant Deadly Poison

Stalkers - Full Strip

Knights - Bowling Bash

Paladins - Sacrifice

White Smiths - Cart Termination

Alchemists - Acid Demonstration

Champions - Asura Strike

High Priests - Holy Light

High Wizard - None Found

Professor - None Found

Sniper - Double Strafe (Particularly weak compared to clowns Arrow Vulcan)

Clown - Arrow Vulcan

But this topic is about Wizards and how as of yet they have no suitable skill to capitalize on in PvP situations against someone with GTB. Unlike Professors who have good maneuverability in PvP situations due to a variety of skills especially Dispel which is a very decent skill. Wizards on the other hand have a very "focused" array of skills most of which are just pure brute force magical skills leaving little to no maneuverability in a situation where magical spells are of no effect on the enemy.

And seeing as High Wizards have less HP than a prof would along with the fact that they do not have physical attack supporting abilities such as the professors ability to cast while hitting means wizards would not be good in a melee combatant type build where you try to strip off your opponents shield. Most champs would kill you in 1 solid hit and assassins tear you to shreds if you get to close.

Now back to the business at hand is the fact that I have found a skill which wizards should be able to capitalize on in PvP with some minor adjustments of the skills mechanics and damage formula.

The skill is "Stave Crasher"

Magic Crasher (Skill ID# 365, iRO Name: Stave Crasher)

Type Offensive

SP Cost 8

Cast Time 0.3 sec

After Cast Delay 0.3 sec

Effect

You do an attack that calculates damage using your MATK instead of ATK but is decreased using enemy's DEF, not MDEF.

This skills overall damage is affected by cards you have in your weapon, weapon element, size and element of the target and it might miss depending on your DEX.

Alright at first glance the skill may seem a bit confusing so let me explain how it works. Simply put the skill is a physical long range skill such as "Double Strafe" the only difference being that it uses your magic attack as if it were your physical attack.

The skills damage is affected by cards such as Goldenring and even Incantation Samurai Card due to the fact that it is decreased in damage by your enemy's Def not Mdef. Ideally since this is a physical skill it can do damage even against an opponent with GTB on. Giving Wizards a chance to fight back.

I think you can see how a skill like this can be a huge help to wizards. But there is still a problem with 8300 Matack i have on my Wiz and a staff with Hydra/Goldenring/Turtle General/Incantation + 2 fbh cards i only do 7k on people with no Ghostring on. I do not know why it does such a small amount of damage but it does do even less than that if i take off the cards on my weapon and shoes.

My suggestion is changing the damage formula to Matack*2 and increasing "Panda Card's" effect to 40/50% increase on the damage of stave crasher that should give wizards a decent skill to use in PvP overall.

Edited May 27, 2010 by ginkgo

[Rayray]

The only time I saw a good stave crasher, it hit around more or less 35-50k and that dude got a thana. I dunno really, but I think we need more input from the others.

[ginkgo]

Yea stave crasher damage is relatively low. Even with great cards to back it up.

[Ryuk]

As to add to your list, wizards major skill is Meteor storm. as for profs their bolts are their main damaging skills , together with their survivability skills.

Either way I agree to the element changing ( I thought it did change element though.. never really tested it )

But the MATKx2 seems too much to me. Do keep in mind this is a skill for when people use gtb, meaning they already are having way less reductions and are vulnerable to all other attacks. Considering high wizards can already get HUGE matk giving the skill a MATKx2 add seems overdone to me.

[ginkgo]

Well like i said up there for some reason i could not get higher than 7k on players with the build i stated above including 8300matack i do not know why it was doing so little maybe because i don't have thana?

[Cirrus]

Its element changes, whatever element you enchant your weapon with. That means yes, you have to use weapon element enchants (scroll converters, Cursed Water, etc) against people on Ghostring.

Stave Crasher is a skill, as people said, that you resort to when they wear the ever dreaded GTB. But on the best equips and damage cards I have as opposed to the normal reductions a well geared person would use, it's still not enough damage to inflict pain. Thanatos card is easily countered by Skoll cards, so it's only effective up to a point.

What I did was suggest a change for Pandaring card, its current effect is 10% more damage with Stave Crasher, and my suggestion was to buff it up to around 30% or more, since the Turtle General card is 20% and is still better than it. Hopefully this would give a bit more damage to Stave Crasher whenever it's implemented, if not, adjustments may be made.

I myself think MATK*2 is a tad too much, (will make me happy on my HWiz for sure), but as argued in the suggestion thread before, Stave Crasher isn't meant to be the primary damaging skill, you're still a High Wizard with a ton of spells at your arsenal.

[ginkgo]

It's element does not change I tried it. It stays constantly neutral. GM Passion also tried it for me in game as well.

Edited May 26, 2010 by ginkgo

[Cirrus]

As with Ryuk I always thought it did, since I did play it and I do nearing 10k per Stave Crasher whether or not people were on Ghostring. I'll take a look as well.

EDIT: It works for me. Did ~1700 damage without an element on someone with Ghostring, did ~8500 damage when I used a Lightning Element Converter. So I have no idea what you're talking about.

Edited May 26, 2010 by Cirrus

[ginkgo]

hmm you did? wow hmm so maybe i was lied to and the guy never put GR on in the first place and cept it neutral or something...hmmm..... well even if the element does change it does to little damage to kill anyone with. so i still agree to changing the damage it does.

Sorry for being wrong with the element changing ill try to be more accurate on things next time.

[Cirrus]

Yeah, it's just too little damage to be on any danger to prepared people. We'll see, soon™.

[ginkgo]

Yea pluss changing the damage to 2 times the matack is nothing compared to all the other skills High Wizards have in their arsenal. About half of the skills High Wizards have in their offensive arsenal damages 10 times or more magic attack.

[Xtopher]

I'm all for beefing up the magic users when ever possible.

I like the idea, as of right now High Wizards are just giant bulls-eyes in pvp. Most of them don't last more than like 2-3 mins in for fild unless they have friends teaming for them. They really don't have much of a way to defend themselves other than spam safety wall and attempt to coma, stave crasher does nothing when the attacker has berries.

[ginkgo]

I'm all for beefing up the magic users when ever possible.

I like the idea, as of right now High Wizards are just giant bulls-eyes in pvp. Most of them don't last more than like 2-3 mins in for fild unless they have friends teaming for them. They really don't have much of a way to defend themselves other than spam safety wall and attempt to coma, stave crasher does nothing when the attacker has berries.

Yea they are sitting ducks I say Stave Crasher needs a boost in power to at least give High Wizards a fighting chance.

[supream]

when people use gtb, meaning they already are having way less reductions and are vulnerable to all other attacks. Considering high wizards can already get HUGE matk giving the skill a MATKx2 add seems overdone to me.

sorry to say but wrong. vulnerable to other attacks? so im assuming ganging? im pretty sure hes talking about one on one matches. even people who wear gtb stave crasher dose crap damage. agree to the stave crash boost.

[Ryuk]

sorry to say but wrong. vulnerable to other attacks? so im assuming ganging? im pretty sure hes talking about one on one matches. even people who wear gtb stave crasher dose crap damage. agree to the stave crash boost.

I really don't mind whether he's talking about one on one or team battles, all I'm saying is wear gtb = - 35% reduction because you won't have usakoring = you're more vurnerable. That's common sense and is in no way wrong.

[supream]

due to the fact that stave crashers damage is so bad, even with uso card off it still only dose little damage.

[ginkgo]

Yea for some reason idk why the damage is so horrible that i think the way the damage is calculated is screwed up. because i will calculate it now watch.

this is if you have 8000 matack and 1 staff with incantation, hydra, turtle general, and goldenring. plus 2 fbh on shoes.

8000 + 1600(20%) =9600

9600 + 1920(20%) =11520

11520 + 2880(25%) =14400

14400 + 14400(100% FBH) 28800

28800 is the final damage and it is unaffected by defense so only by resist. Yet i do not do nearly this much with this exact same build. I only do about 8k on someone with no gtb.

[Josef]

careful with card stacking

[Supreme]

Hydra/TG/Goldenring/FBH's demihuman damage increase will not affect Stave Crasher at all. Only higher MATK or our custom Pandaring card(10% more damage w/ stave) will affect the total damage for stave.

[Josef]

I thought they work, but stacking 2 fbh with another demi human card won't work too well. idk!

[Ryuk]

What Supreme said is right. However since it does do physical damage you can use cards such as thanatos or incantation samurai to alter the effect. (Same like high wizard card for magic dmg) but damage adding cards (such as TG) do not work and FBH only works with the boost in matk, not the demi human boost.

Also next time if you want to calculate make sure you consider the stacking (when you use multiple of one card the second card adds less and so on) AND all modifiers are always from BASE atk or hp or w/e you're calculating meaning :

8000 + 1600(20%) =9600

again base so +1600 again (20% from 8000, and if we'd consider stacking it would be more like 15% from 8000 but lets keep that aside for now) so then it would be 9600+1600 = 11200

then it's 8000+25% = +2000 meaning 11200 + 2000 is 13200.

then 100% from fbh would be +8000 so in total none reduced would be 21200.

And that's without the card stacking modifications and assuming these cards would actually work. With the stacking modifications it would be lower. And after all those modifications the reductions from your enemy player kick in.

[Veggie&Mac]

Pandaring: Increase damage with Stave Crasher by 10% ( weaopon )

good card too ;)

[Overlord]

Hydra/TG/Goldenring/FBH's demihuman damage increase will not affect Stave Crasher at all. Only higher MATK or our custom Pandaring card(10% more damage w/ stave) will affect the total damage for stave.

What Supreme said is right. However since it does do physical damage you can use cards such as thanatos or incantation samurai to alter the effect. (Same like high wizard card for magic dmg) but damage adding cards (such as TG) do not work and FBH only works with the boost in matk, not the demi human boost.

All the cards listed above does affect and increase damage to the skill Stave Crasher, including Turtle General. Fallen Bishop Hibram Card works with the boost in MATK as well as the Demi-Human boost.

What Cirrus suggested before on post #6 of changing the effects of Pandaring Card would be a good idea, I would say around 40-50%. For the original topic suggestion, I would agree on changing the formula for only that specific skill to have MATK x 2.

[Supreme]

All the cards listed above does affect and increase damage to the skill Stave Crasher, including Turtle General. Fallen Bishop Hibram Card works with the boost in MATK as well as the Demi-Human boost.

Ah, you are right, just tested it out myself. The low percentage of damage increase with pandaring just confused me a bit. (10% seems a bit obsolete?)

Yeah by all means upgrade pandaring, 10% is very low.

[Cirrus]

10% is indeed obsolete. Not like every class has Stave Crasher anyway.

Plus same modifiers stack additively, not multiplicatively. Hydra+Goldenring+FBH+FBH isn't 1.2*1.25*1.5*1.5 but just 145%. Turtle General has a different modifier, so it's 2.45*1.2. That should be around 23k, and assuming that no GTB means Usakoring which is 35%, and an F.Shield (properly geared) that's 55% reduction. Would still go a low 10k, but as I've seen myself, MATK range is huge. You don't always come up with the max number it displays, hence the low damage most of the time. I'll take a look sometime too though, because yeah it is very weak.

And as someone's guide has reminded me, there's this urban legend that cards don't stack, they do, there's no penalty for how much you do put. 4 Abysmal Knight cards is indeed 100%, not 80% or whatever.

Edited May 27, 2010 by Cirrus