Everyone

I did notice the back to one week suggestion. It must've been changed to give the GM's less work and decrease the amount of PvP rewards entering into the economy. I don't see a huge problem with going back to one week, especially if something like this was implemented. Nice bump. That reward system is basically what I was getting at but I demanded a more inflamatory conversation. : ) I think it could be further simplified to suit the original suggestion and make the math portion easier on the GM's. 0~50 .. 100% 50~75 ... 40% 75~100 ... 20% This is where I still want to fight for the underdog and say 100+ ... 10% but when it gets to 2nd and 3rd place there is no place for a system like this unless you drop down into Event Tokens.

@chris - Please do not mistake these arguements as an attack against you personally or your ideas. Also, don't think I'm defending Dadron. I'm a loner by habit and it's from that position that I so harshly debate the ideas of needing to have a team in order to win. *When it's 5 v 1, yes, kill as many as possible as fast as I can. *I agree that negative ratios are a cheap win but they're also proof that anyone can still solo rank. (I mainly disagree with the removal from the ladder for the week. Too harsh IMO. Lesser reward or demotion) *Most legit ladder champs come from the same elite cliques. Why keep catering to these 20 people? If a "scrub" can come out of nowhere in 3 days and get 3rd place, this week's ladder'rs weren't trying as hard as he was. Especially since they get kills from 4 GvG's and however many WoE's they go to in 2 weeks. That's a lot of missed opportunities. Used to get 400-500 kills from one WoE. And that was just on a HW. -The Vets aren't going anywhere and when they do they come back. *Most veteran players have quit multiple times. It made sense to me. Nonetheless, it was just the prelude to my subject that the veteran elite are already pampered. To fight so hard to ensure them with extra security in procuring a ladder spot is unnecessary to me. *My IGN is Icon. I main HW and go nowhere near PvP for obvious reasons(points at 'I main HW'). I fought hard to keep GTB at 100% on this server so please don't go that direction. Every time I enter PvP everyone says 'Hi Icon!' and pretends that I'm not there .. until I go apeshit and spam happy. @forum *I mainly disagree with removal from the ladder even if your ratio is blasphemous. I think revamping the suggestion to include further increments of rewards is the best thing. Not outright removal. *(Ganging is irrelevant to this particular instance of the argument). It can be in very very few circumstances. But in this case, what do you think would happen if a randomer such as Dadron came through and singled out our weakest teammate? We'd kill him and try our hardest to kill him again before he reached them. I can't say this is the case every time but after 10 or 20 times it does start to become the case. He had no choice, either keep having fun and die 1.2 times more often than he killed .. or quit. * Wasn't the suggestion 'If your deaths exceed 50% of your kills you are removed from the weeks ladder entirely'? This is disqualification flat out. There is no deduction in rewards. If they rank in a 14 day period, and have a >50% death ratio .. I feel they should get something other than a swift kick in the ass. Edit : I'm honestly enjoying this. Hope I'm not rubbing you the wrong way. (spellcheck)

My main point was not to be nostalgic but to point out that PvP wasn't always a team sport. I do want to emphasize that ratio isn't what it's all about to everyone that steps into the PvP room. Cole can solo ladder on most classes. I don't need to ask, I've seen it over and over and over. There's a little hole in the teamwork/class reasonings. Yes, I know he's geared out the wazoo but that's not the point. If Dadron would have laddered for 2 weeks straight then he most likely would have won at the rate he was going, full payout or not. It does take work to tiptoe around potential threats so your ratio stays low but it only takes consistency to win. If someone is willing to sacrifice a full payout in lue of a win then they should be able to make that choice, not have someone that doesn't ladder anymore make up some new rule that will get them disqualified. I was not promoting feeding, I was pointing out the fact that Dadron died 500 someodd times therefore someone, or a group of people, got those kills. Simply put, his 'sloppiness' on his way to ranking paved the way for someone to get a few extra kills. The Vets aren't going anywhere and when they do they come back. There's no need to pamper them further and alienate people who can ladder just not with a perfect ratio. Big question :: How does disqualifying someone that laddered fair and square promote fairness? EDIT:: hit enter before reading your edit .. but the question still stands

I can sympothized with certain aspects of the suggestion(s) coming from the point of view of someone who tiptoes up the ladder cautiously to ensure they get the full payout, but that's about it. It truly seems like you're unwittingly trying to further segregate the PvP room from the everyday people and monopolize the PvP ladder for the veteran guild people, which I believe is one reason why the pvp ladder was abolished in the past, regardless of new content/buffs/nerfs. I know many people would strongly disagree with the opinion that the fRO PvP ladder competition is only for veteran players. Even though, and unfortunately, it is that way at present, but this was certainly not it's conceptual design. The main reason PvP has evolved into a place where you need a group to survive and prosper is because of groups ! I can't think of any reason to promote more gangs. With this and the buff removal suggestions you will have no choice but to go with a group. Isn't this what we have GvG and WoE for? At this rate someone is bound to suggest a 'no party' PvP room. PvP was always booming when the ladder was off. Why? Because it was full of one on one, buff-n-burn, ygg spamming, take on the whole room type of people that would only work together to take out a gang, then go back to slaughtering each other... for fun! That is until BoomBomKid came in and wiped the floor with everyone while his homonculus humped Jelly's face. When it said '14' people were in there, you had 7 fights going on, not 14 people waiting to kill the next body that walked through. You chastize people who have no friends or guild ties on the server. Alone they have no choice but to self-buff and take what they can get, when they can get it before inevitably getting owned by a gang, and now you want them to get nothing for it. You criticize an entire class for their inability to ladder solo vs a room full of groups and say they should either get a gang or play a different class. Not very encouraging. Furthermore, you go on to say all that this person was doing is feeding yet you still complain about it. He fed some 400-500 kills to the ladder. I fail to see a problem there. He killed more in a few days than the weary tiptoer(with a gang) did in two weeks. I'd think this type of 'balls-to-the-wall, out-gunned and out-numbered' strategy(when it works as well as it did for him) would be commended, not crucified. Gangs or no gangs, buffs or no buffs, it's PvP. Anything goes, or at least that's what it used to mean. @the suggestion - I think it's entirely self-serving and in no way good for the server. And most of the arguements in favor of the suggestion are extremely elitest. Your current reward for keeping a decent ratio is a full payout. Your current punishment for having a sloppy ratio is 40% payout. (honestly i dont see anything wrong with this, especially since it was ignored for a couple years and has, basically, only recently been re-adopted and enforced with the addition of PvP tokens that some people are currently finding NO USE FOR) IF anything, and I do mean if, a lesser payout would suffice but not a complete dismissal. TL;DR? Allow me to sum it up for you .. click . No offense intended.

I figured that both suggestions needed more direct attention. :D You made a good suggestion that kind of took the backseat after a dozen posts. There will always be cheaters but there isn't always a GM on patrol. And more often than not a cheater gets a couple hundred kills before anyone notices but by that time they're done and there's no way to prove anything.

I'm going to agree with your disagreement. I only said it'd be a great 1st step because of how easy it is. The source/db modifications, imo, would take less than a day and be just as easy. The hard part would be the testing, waiting for feedback/bugs/etc. and the weeks of flyby patching.

either the codebox is broke or the script was too much to handle(there was A LOT) I think we can all agree that adding the 3rd class sprites, whether they're simply ''suits'' for now or just there to say ''Part 1 done!'', would be a great 1st step. One thing I'm against is the new mounts .. some of them are too gay to make up for the few that aren't. ( A F'N LLAMA?! REALLY GRAVITY?! WTF!! )

Most of the work is done and out there waiting to be copy/pasted. As for the imbalance and OP concerns, the only way to be sure is to let it loose and see what happens. Like I said, we've already customized and strengthened the hell out of our 2nd classes, so as long as we put 3rd class restrictions on certain gears I wouldn't be surprised if it all worked out without much nerfing. If some of the 3rd class skills come to that point where the server feels the need to remove them from WoE/PvP then we can just mapflag the skills like Jump and Backslide.

try setting fro to a higher priority in task manager? idk, not much i can think of ..

regardless of how thick the boards are these kids are pretty awesome .. doing a flip or kicking above the waist is impossible for most american kids, HAHAFATTIES!

Nothing worth having comes easy ..

I think, at this point, 3rd classes would involve a lot of 'undoing' of a majority of our customizations. But who knows really, our 2nd classes might just be able to rival untampered 3rd classes at this point due to all those customizations. IF they were implemented, then we'd just have to limit 3rd job access to some of the more powerful customs(valk weapons n such) which would lead to a lot of recoding. Of course this would probably only work temporarily.

.. again

I'm fairly sure this was suggested once before and rejected due to the fact that we wanted people to keep voting daily, especially when the newer items come out. I have at least 40 voting items, I wouldn't have to vote for a long time if I could just cash 'em in for the newest thing. It's not a bad idea, I would just be prepared for a 'no'.

I have 2 simple suggestions birthed from a larger list of still open suggestions. 1 will solve lag issues and allow for further customization of gameplay. 2 would help control ladder cheating and promote the 'hot' times in PvP. 1. /showdamage Some people either lag due to or dislike seeing battle damage. There used to be a alternate patch/file for battle damage a long time ago. I really can't see a reason why a slash-command couldn't be implemented. 2. /showpvpbc Global pvp broadcasts would have to be enabled. This would allow the players(who want to) to help police the pvp ladder by allowing them to take SS's of suspected cheaters during times when it seemed a GM wasn't online. Also, it would let ladder'rs know when the action is instead of running back and forth to check constantly. It would also help the GM's so that they wouldn't have to watch pvp rooms, they could just watch the scroll. The broadcasts could be simplified to only include maps(outside the event rooms) that contribute to overall ladder scores, but I think the map_name in which the killing was going on would have to stay intact.

bring back izlude!! some old school pvp :) or copy one of the poring_ or tower_ maps .. that'd be different

I can only assume that all of the people on the /taekwon list are still around or at least they haven't abandoned the account since the names on the list are not 'null' like the /alchemist and /blacksmith lists. I'm kind of against the idea of a /list reset set on an amount of time. Let's say that this suggestion makes the cut. If in 6 months the list is the same in terms of average points (100-300), then I really see no reason to bother with a reset(and possible patch). Given the fact that all this will be nothing if you're not on the list, is sabotage not a foreseeable obstacle? (all it will take to ruin this list and all the gear is ill-will and no life, and there's no shortages of either out there) What if 10 people go f'n nuts in the first weeks after it's implemented or reset and jack up the ratings to 1k over the 11th rank. Purposefully knocking certain people off the list to keep them from woe'ing/pvp'ing or some other mischievous reason. Would we then be back here on the forums asking and arguing for another reset or more ''rules'' with punishments for sabotaging a list meant for a lower class? ... more later, gotta go to work ...

One of these days I'm gonna go off on this thing, 'Office Space' style.

what if the world came with GM @commands .. I bet there'd be a lot of red dots above a lot of people's heads .. .. and even more invisible guys in ladies locker rooms =)

I did say, imo. : ) It was basically my generalized ideal that a 2-1 class would eventually want to ascend to the following 2-2 class, or that theTK(ranker or not) would eventually want to ascend to TK Master, where they could benefit from the skills(such as hatred,sprint,etc.) and class bonuses therein, not to remain in a lower class with anticipations of becoming a 2-2 rival via customization. Apparently, that's not the case here. However, what happens to the SG when/if the TK is a better option? a vicious circle of even stronger weapon suggestions? Is it okay because there's only 10 eligible spots and those spots are only beneficial to veteran/donor players? Would this push the class across the threshold of being a tank and a heavy-to-moderate dps'r(that is IF both suggestions are implemented the way you currently have them designed, with valk weapon alone almost doubling your current 12k on the strongest kick)? Keep in mind that I'm not 100% against your suggestions. I'm just asking all the questions that I think should be addressed before acception/rejection. And honestly, who wouldn't do everything in their power to perpetuate a conversation with the awsmcuteness that is Kittie. [/flattery]

Since there is a cape specifically made for TK's, I can't really knock that suggestion. My main issue is with what the TK class is. As you mentioned in your 2nd sentence, it's a First Level(2-1) job class meant to 'transcend' into a 2-2 class, SL or SG(aka TK master), in order to compete with LK's, SinX's, Champions, etc. The /ranker benefits, imo, were only meant to be used as a tool to get to the next class on LR servers. The fact that you can already keep up is nothing short of outstanding, but I don't believe it's a viable basis for further bonuses. My other issue, which is basically the same, is that any 2-1 class can boldy make these claims and suggestions for their specific class if they're outfitted with the proper custom gears.

gonna guess that the manual patch is not up to date ..

<3 butthole surfers

the perfomance by LMFAO at this year's American Music Awards .. imo, f'n awesome .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaXMvleTFf8&feature=related

hello computer ~ DO WHAT I F'N TELL YOU TO DO OR SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES!! ... it says 'hit any key to continue' ... do you really want me to hit you? /grr meh .. that is all