Dr. Tran Posted December 31, 2008 Report Posted December 31, 2008 I completely understand why tk's high jump was disabled during woe back in the days. (since i did abuse it to pwn a castle in like 10secs LOL) but now that the hp for the emp is 392804234, it will take at least 1 min for a sg to break it, so make high jump available for woe again! besides, speed pot sinxs can get to the emp w/ that kinda of speed too.
Avalon Posted December 31, 2008 Report Posted December 31, 2008 The only advantage that Assassin Crosses have over other classes, to the extent of my outdated knowledge, is the slight speed boost of Increase Dodge. That is nothing compared to being able to skip 10 units with High Jump. If Assassin Crosses can reach that speed, then other classes can reach a close enough speed. Taekwons have Sprint anyway. Even if it takes a minute to kill an Emperium, it would make more sense to just decrease the Emperium's HP for just that reason instead of just enabling High Jump, and that itself is a pathetic idea. anyway, enabling High Jump would destroy many strategies used and would put a heavy restriction to staying in Emperium rooms for most strategies because of the fact that castles themselves are one map. This would allow Taekwons to be able to jump from, lets say, room 1 of a castle to room 5, depending on the gap of darkness between rooms and how the rooms themselves are positioned.
Dr. Tran Posted December 31, 2008 Author Report Posted December 31, 2008 just a quick question, have u ever woe on this server yet. i mean, u really have to see if u can see how fast a sinx get to the emp. and by high jump, u can't really jump cross the darkness, but u can jump by walking in the portal. current castles that are active are prt fed i believe is (prt_cas03) and payon's sacred alter (prt_cas04?). I've practiced with high jumping on another server for these 2 castles. and compare to speed potion walking, there isn't a big difference in time get to the emp.
Avalon Posted December 31, 2008 Report Posted December 31, 2008 No, I have not WoEed on this server yet, but I do realize how fast a unit could get to an Emperium, since that shouldn't vary server to server. I got to Kriemhild's Emperium in 53 seconds with a mounted Lord Knight, Moonlight Flower shoes, and a Box of Thunder, which I think is slower than a Speed Potion, on another server so I think I know how fast something is. The only thing that really matters is the slight speed boost obtained from skills, since all other methods of gaining speed should be applicable to Taekwons as well. It may not be possible to jump over dark gaps, but it is possible to do something like, for example, jump from around the Kriemhild castle owners' spawn point to the portal. Defenses would still have to be reconsidered in the fashion previously described because people could still High Jump right over the defense. I'm pretty sure High Jump is a lot faster than Speed Potions, in a straight line anyway. There could be a delay, since my test was on another server with no High Jump delays. Maybe you should try comparing the speeds of Assassin Crosses and the speed of Taekwons both with Speed Potions instead. Even if they could be a lot faster, this suggestion seems a lot like saying that Mages should be able to phase shift thru walls because Paladins and Lord Knights have Peco Pecos. "Phase shifting Mages weren't normally implemented, but High Jump was, like Peco Pecos and Increase Dodge" could be an argument against this, but, this solution is like saying "an eye for an arm" because High Jump comes with the bonus of being able to go over obstacles. The jumping fact itself is what I consider to make this idea inpratical. High Jump itself was also "normally" removed from WoE anyway. Plus, Sprint could work as a good, normal substitute.
Anarii Posted January 2, 2009 Report Posted January 2, 2009 Sacrificing damage for speed doesn't sound too bad to me.
Tick Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 To be honest, I would love to see TK`s around again. I believe High Jump should be back to normal now due to the emp has more HP. Also I have tested with my sinx, I can get to an emp in under 30 seconds everytime. I would love to see more TK`s & SG`s. Great request. Bring em back!
Amitsu Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 Avalon you shouldn't really reply upon that much about WoE without actually knowing it. There are NO taekwons around usually because they're damage is entirely underpowered in my opinion compared to sinx. It would be fine to have taekwon or SG to be able to high jump because if you cant even fight against a weakling like that that's your fault. Taekwon etc are WEAK and have the right to keep high jump. While sinx have cloak to defend against others temporarily if there were to be traps. What would a taekwon do? Would you just sit there as a sinx? no you would try to escape while in a trap from a sniper. high jump is the same thing as cloak, a defense mechanism, may be not as good as cloak but it is one. "Sure if you bring back high jump why not bring back back slide" Sinx's don't need backslide because they have cloak. In high rates there is A LOT less strategy compared to lowrates. don't tell me there's strategy in high rate because even if there is, they can walk right past it like i did in another server with heavy defenses. (luckily for me they didn't have mayap) so i took the castle in the last second. =D Even in the past where there was a big guild, Epic, Terminus, Irrelevent(an LK for gods sake) and other people just walked right past our huge "Strategy" defense. SG spam and traps at the entrance. Yea it failed.
Defiance Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 Avalon you shouldn't really reply upon that much about WoE without actually knowing it. There are NO taekwons around usually because they're damage is entirely underpowered in my opinion compared to sinx. It would be fine to have taekwon or SG to be able to high jump because if you cant even fight against a weakling like that that's your fault. Taekwon etc are WEAK and have the right to keep high jump. I've seen a Taekwon hit like a Sinx and trust me, its not funny at all. TK's aren't underpowered, just under-appreciated (and possibly under-HP'ed, insert witty pun comment here). It only works to those who actually knew the class really. If you want a speed WOE, then be my guest. Speed pot Sinx and High Jump TK sure sounds fun. And oh, this forum is actually for those who knew and those who actually wanted to know. Everyone is granted their freedom of speech. So he hasn't WOE'd here yet, big deal. It would help everyone of we stopped criticizing other's shortcomings and try to enlighten them at least. I call no for this suggestion by the way. Try researching how good this class here and you'll be begging to differ.
Dr. Tran Posted January 4, 2009 Author Report Posted January 4, 2009 Well I never said tk or sg is weak, I just think they should get high jump back during woe. Back in the days, high jump was disable because sg can kill the emp in like 4 hits, but now that they can't, shouldn't we bring back the high jumping?
Devotion Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 The majority of breakers these days are sinx, for many reasons (mentioned in posts above). The thing is people want an easy breaker, and sinx is good at surviving and hits hard. If TK have HP problems, hook up a devo paladin. Or have an LK or Sinx accompany. They don't necessarily need high jump to be awesome. They just need help in other areas, like support from guildies. I'm not voting on this yet.
Defiance Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 They can reach the Emp faster than a Sinx using speed pots is it not? Walking the path =/= jumping over it.
Terroryst Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 Why are you guys naming TKs? I haven't seen anybody else play TaeKwon except for me. And no they don't have low HP, lol.
Dr. Tran Posted January 4, 2009 Author Report Posted January 4, 2009 Why are you guys naming TKs? I haven't seen anybody else play TaeKwon except for me. And no they don't have low HP, lol. only if ur a ranker, i was talking about sg :< oh and jerry, speed pot walking is actually faster than jumpin around in the payon castle.
Avalon Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 Avalon you shouldn't really reply upon that much about WoE without actually knowing it. There are NO taekwons around usually because they're damage is entirely underpowered in my opinion compared to sinx. It would be fine to have taekwon or SG to be able to high jump because if you cant even fight against a weakling like that that's your fault. Taekwon etc are WEAK and have the right to keep high jump. While sinx have cloak to defend against others temporarily if there were to be traps. What would a taekwon do? Would you just sit there as a sinx? no you would try to escape while in a trap from a sniper. high jump is the same thing as cloak, a defense mechanism, may be not as good as cloak but it is one. "Sure if you bring back high jump why not bring back back slide" Sinx's don't need backslide because they have cloak. In high rates there is A LOT less strategy compared to lowrates. don't tell me there's strategy in high rate because even if there is, they can walk right past it like i did in another server with heavy defenses. (luckily for me they didn't have mayap) so i took the castle in the last second. =D Even in the past where there was a big guild, Epic, Terminus, Irrelevent(an LK for gods sake) and other people just walked right past our huge "Strategy" defense. SG spam and traps at the entrance. Yea it failed. First, let me say that if you want to hide, use a Smokie card. Everyone can use a form of hiding, but only Assassin Crosses can use it with duration and speed. Taekwons aren't actually too weak, if used right. I'm not sure if their special sun/moon/star skills work in castles, but if they do, then they'll zap your SP while doing a pretty good amount of damage (not sure if it applies to an Emperium, I haven't exactly played a Taekwon class in a War of Emperium in a while). If it doesn't work, then they can still do a not too bad amount of damage. Rankers also have HP on par with Lord Knights and Paladins and a great amount of SP as well, so they have good survival. There is strategy on high rates, but maybe some people aren't just bright enough to find them. A guild I went against, who were familiar with each other for at least a few months, were quite a pain in the ass. They all attacked and spammed at the very beginning of the map. 6-7 people stood in the Emperium room to go against stragglers. If people got past the front defense, then survivors went outside and went through the flag while ones who died came back and went through the flag as well. Choosing the combinations of classes that go into castles and corresponding them with the map is also considered strategy. They did that pretty well too. They also took advantage of underused skills and were open to using new classes just to improve their defenses (for example, some people offered to make Gypsies and Clowns and used... that one Clown-Gypsy skill with the giant pink bubble... I forgot the name). They played a low rate, so of course they knew how to own us. I think a few people in this server were with me for that, now that I think about it.
Dr. Tran Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Posted January 5, 2009 well, low rate is way too different than high rate. I mean some strategy MIGHT work, however, shall we go back on to topic. Tk can cloak as well by using a sinx card, its not as good as sinx's cloak, but it is acceptable. Again, I understand you are some what new in this server, this server is ygg base server, meaning spamming yggs = everything, so decreasing sp by the sg skill is almost completely useless. As for damage output, no way in hell a tk can out damage a edp double dagger sinx (unless that sinx has failure gear and the sg has godly gear). Since TK cannot wear a weapon, their damage output is lower than sg, however since SG lose the ability to use TK rank, they also lose their hp bonus, of course SG has the sun / moon / star skills but they won't work every woe. Btw, the skill w/ gypsy and clown (Moonlit Water Mill) won't work in woe, it says in the skill description, no offense by saying that skill will work is telling me either you have never woe before (as a clown or gypsy), or don't have much woe experience. Loki's Veil is the skill they would use, since it disables all skills usage in a quite big area.
Anarii Posted January 5, 2009 Report Posted January 5, 2009 Uhhh yeah, tks will NEVER match a sinx dps w/o a wep nor come close. As for sgs, its a bit more reasonable because they actually have a wep. As for high jump I'm all for it. It was brutal before because the emp HP was very low and healing the emp was much slower...After all these nerfs i'd say that high jump is fair.....and also if im not mistaken sg's hp mod is considerably lower than sinx.
Terroryst Posted January 5, 2009 Report Posted January 5, 2009 You know what I think? I think TKs should get a weapon. THEN I'LL BE KICKIN' ASS AND CHEWIN' GUM.
Amitsu Posted January 5, 2009 Report Posted January 5, 2009 they'll lack edp and trust me. no strategy in high rate. walk right past their defenses in a jiffy
Avalon Posted January 5, 2009 Report Posted January 5, 2009 well, low rate is way too different than high rate. I mean some strategy MIGHT work, however, shall we go back on to topic. Tk can cloak as well by using a sinx card, its not as good as sinx's cloak, but it is acceptable. Again, I understand you are some what new in this server, this server is ygg base server, meaning spamming yggs = everything, so decreasing sp by the sg skill is almost completely useless. As for damage output, no way in hell a tk can out damage a edp double dagger sinx (unless that sinx has failure gear and the sg has godly gear). Since TK cannot wear a weapon, their damage output is lower than sg, however since SG lose the ability to use TK rank, they also lose their hp bonus, of course SG has the sun / moon / star skills but they won't work every woe. Btw, the skill w/ gypsy and clown (Moonlit Water Mill) won't work in woe, it says in the skill description, no offense by saying that skill will work is telling me either you have never woe before (as a clown or gypsy), or don't have much woe experience. Loki's Veil is the skill they would use, since it disables all skills usage in a quite big area. I forgot about excessive ygging in this server, so I didn't apply it to my thinking. Well, I know that Star Gladiators can't beat Assassin Crosses in damage output in most cases, but they can get pretty damn close, uncommonly even better, if they have the right equipment and buffs. I've seen some places where Star Gladiators actually outdamaged Assassin Crosses against an Emperium. As for Moonlit Water Mill, I was giving an example. This was on another server where it must've been allowed, like how High Jump wants to be permitted here. I wouldn't mind if they made Rankers/Star Gladiators stronger, but I would consider the fact that Assassin Crosses have high melee damage because they need 6 cards, 2 weapons, and an EDP bottle even though high rate servers make this a lot easier to obtain. High Jump does bother me because it goes over certain boundaries, but thats pretty much it.
Xenovarius Posted January 10, 2009 Report Posted January 10, 2009 I could guarantee that if high jump was added that once I can succesfully start this server the moment I get a hold of the right gears I could reach the emp in mere seconds and once I touch the emperium due to lord knight card and gtb and sniper card combos there would be no way for anyone other then asura champs to kill me which means high jump is obviously OP in this server as it is in any other. I don't see why the repeated mention of SinX being able to reach the emp room in mere mins is a big deal either. If a sinx can do it so can any other class -.-' To further this the benefits of evil druid and gloom cards in 2 slot armors just puts this idea into over kill. A definate NO.
