Dispell Suggestion

[Ryoji]

Yeah, but as far as we can tell....

It can be done.

People want it done.

There's no good reason why it shouldn't be done.

...so why isn't it done?

[Shadow Cloner]

i say buff stave crasher so much that people will MUST take off the GTB to survive the second one XD

I would like to see that one. ;)

That change will be far easier than to allow dispell pass GTB or clean FCP. It's the matter of changing dmg modifier then changing mechanism and also far less problems will be encountered during compilation and running or so. ;)

The only question is that since this skill is physical telekinesis based (that's why it's affecting DEF), how huge the dmg modifier can go. It's also noticing that Wiz don't have any supportive skill is why Stave Crasher is there (unlike prof which still can endow at least).

Or just increase magic crasher damage, or do what blueberry was saying

and give dispell to wizards too; Which would be nice.

There's no good reason why it shouldn't be done.

See below.

Forgive me if my english and the ways of explaining this aren't really understendable,but aren't you being a LITTLE to selfish? ....

From what you just said,you just bother aslong as you can survive longer,but you don't really care about others. This,to my eyes,benefits PROFESSORS. I can't see my High Wizard nor anyother player that has a ''passion'' for that class benefiting with this,and then if we ask for another buff they'll say we've got benefited enough and that we're nothing but cry babies.

... if this pass through, I see 2/4 (depend how you see it) classes overpower the rest.

I actually don't mind if it gets rid of FCP or not.

...

I'm going to be annoying your community.

Giving dispell to Wiz is not just a tick on the box dude. It needs huge amount of coding and trial and errors to get it works. Skill bypass (look the skill tree below dispell. There is one skill that is passive special only for sage/professors) is what makes the problem which makes the coding will be so though than to change figures. Not to mentioned can caused client error and caused even more troubles. That's why server not normally like to make substantial changes to mechanism systems unless they sure what they're doing.

Item coding is more simpler though. In every server, there are item_db and item_db2 files, changes to items can be made there with slight changes in coding if the db is changed substantially. It's also need to be redescribed in the client grf package therefore shouldn't make a false claim of what the items can do.

[» Pat]

What's so hard about changing the code of one card?

Even I could attempt it and I'm a scripting noob, especially at C. :rolleyes:

[Ryoji]

It was suggested that the skill was given to wiz's too so they didn't have to use the card to melee.

However the card would be available to EVERY class.

There is 0 favortism for profs in allowing everyone to have a card that does the same thing!

What aren't you getting in these walls of text?

Profs will have a spell, yes.

But every other class will use a card.

The difference?

People have to melee with the card to get it's effect.

Also with a high aspd, dispell will occur even faster then the normal skill spammed.

Predicting people will be unhappy doesn't do you any good if you can't back it up with reason.

Also, if you were to only buff stave crasher damage that WOULD be favortism.

Because that only helps ONE class, and ignores 2-4 other classes who NEED to be changed.

This server is already imbalanced in many aspects.

One of them is how FCP overpowers every stripping/breaking item.

And another is how gtb instantly defeats every magic class. (Unless you suck at pvp)

And yes, I'm going to annoy the community.

Know why?

...For every annoying battle they put me through

having to fight as a magic class against a gtb user with fcp...

Me annoying the community is me fighting back, defending myself equally for a change.

Of course it's going to annoy, because you'll find out the hard way there's alot of good magic players.

If they can alter a card, great.

If they can give the skill to magic classes, better.

Or if they just want to alter the professor skill.

Or not get rid of FCP.

Either way, no matter what you do a class is going to benefit and not do harm.

If a prof only gets dispell bypass, they STILL can't hurt you or strip you.

If the dispell ability works on FCP, any class can dispell FCP with the card.

Abuse? Hardly it'd still be at such a slow rate...

...That if you did get dispell'd, stripped, and then beaten...

You deserve to be beaten, and if you think you can't handle that

That's just sad.

Now give me a REAL reason why it shouldn't

instead of repeating "o noes, this is bad idea" fifty posts in a row. Gosh.

Am I asking for too much? Just a little logic, please.

[geldaz]

Am I asking for too much? Just a little logic, please.[/size][/color]

You're asking for something that isn't definetly not going to help. You get yourself some LOGIC ,I'm pretty sure only Pat is with you since he wants to use his professor at all the costs.

You guys aren't thinking in what happens AFTER this change is done. Oh wait,nothing happens really. You can get them ride of their buffs,but you can't hit them with magic attacks. We don't need THAT. We want to hit with our DAMN MAGIC ATTACKS,not spam the fucking same skill.

And after the change,since this is completely POINTLESS,we'll ask for another buff,which will have a way less chance of getting heard by since we just had a change,regardless being shittie or good.

I'm ALL IN to buff Magic Classes,but there's Buffs and BUFFS. Keep suggesting,but diffrent stuff. And we're not supposed to have much logic in here as you don't have any. We can say whatever we want,it's a suggestion thread,we critiquize the suggestion. You're not really needed to go like ''omg this is dem best suggestion,plz hear to me,getz dem logic''.

[Ryoji]

No, all I'm asking is to alter one skill.

This skill alone, if you choose to or not could get rid of your gtb problems and make you able to hit.

I'm not asking for some card to buff our melee.

I'm asking for a way to prevent us from getting hit by one shot skills and possiblely get rid of FCP.

Making so we can strip and break gtb shields or anything else.

Now come back when you have a better idea instead of just constant QQ'ing about how nothing's going to happen.

Because I garuntee even if it is just me and blueberry if this changes, people will lose to magic classes.

I will be dispelling FCP, stripping you, and out DPSing you before you even think about what happened.

This small change could change the face of pvp, the fact you can't take that at all in is due to two simple facts

One, you don't read english that well

or

Two, you don't have any logic of your own

Even your mentor Damascas was working on this EXACT same suggestion for the better of the class.

So why would you go against my logic, every REAL magic user's logic, and Damascas's logic? =[

You're the one not making any sense but spouting off how we're not fair.

The only thing you seem to want is a complete gtb nerf, which I'm against.

So I guess you're going to have to settle for second best or come up with another idea.

Which you have none of.

If you still don't understand what I said, because you don't understand "english"

Go find yourself a translator to sit down and talk it over to you in preschool talk.

[geldaz]

No, all I'm asking is to alter one skill.

This skill alone, if you choose to or not could get rid of your gtb problems and make you able to hit.

I'm not asking for some card to buff our melee.

I'm asking for a way to prevent us from getting hit by one shot skills and possiblely get rid of FCP.

Making so we can strip and break gtb shields or anything else.

Now come back when you have a better idea instead of just constant QQ'ing about how nothing's going to happen.

Because I garuntee even if it is just me and blueberry if this changes, people will lose to magic classes.

I will be dispelling FCP, stripping you, and out DPSing you before you even think about what happened.

This small change could change the face of pvp, the fact you can't take that at all in is due to two simple facts

One, you don't read english that well

or

Two, you don't have any logic of your own

Even your mentor Damascas was working on this EXACT same suggestion for the better of the class.

So why would you go against my logic, every REAL magic user's logic, and Damascas's logic? =[

You're the one not making any sense but spouting off how we're not fair.

The only thing you seem to want is a complete gtb nerf, which I'm against.

So I guess you're going to have to settle for second best or come up with another idea.

Which you have none of.

If you still don't understand what I said, because you don't understand "english"

Go find yourself a translator to sit down and talk it over to you in preschool talk.

Ok,to start with: I know my english is not the best,but you Sir,got no rights to critiquize it considering you're not really that better than me.

If it's about surviving one shot skills,it's pretty much possible and we can take for e.g Blueberry. He just Safety walls,uses a RSX and it's done. Does he need a buff? No.

You can't guarantee anything in a game. And I think people were really OFF THE SIDE about Dispelling FCP.

Honestly,Damascus is just a big friend of mine,not my mentor in any cases. I discuss things with him and so on. Every real magic's user logic? Are you serious? Am I the one who can't understend what we're talking about? I play a damn Wizard since Beta. Unfortunately I can't explain some stuff like I'd love too,but I try,something you aren't doing at all.

Where did I stated that I wanted a complete GTB nerf? Eh right,I don't think so. I actually said I'm in for buffing Magic Classes,but there's BUFFS and BUFFS,and this one is pointless.

I actually got plenty of ideas,but I know this community for long enough. The GTB Thread fight was time wasted,and this is the same. Actually,GTB Thread had some sense.

Quit this idea,get a new one. Who knows...maybe I'll support it,and more people will. This is going NOWHERE.

P.S : By the time you tell me to get a translator,get yourself one aswell. Doesn't look like I'm the only one with ''Engrish'' problems.

[Ryoji]

Look, all I'm saying is this thread is full of people who support this idea.

As it is right now there is no way to make a buffing suggestion to overcome gtb

unless you were to be this exact same thing or an attempt to nerf gtb.

If you can't come up with any other reason not to do this then that is your opinion.

Because you are entitled to your opinion as everyone else is to saying this is pointless or not.

but since this isn't a thread asking if you think this is pointless or not,

it's a thread about a suggestion to help 2 or more classes in attempt to create more balance

which only allows suggestions and other ideas which this should or shouldn't be implemented or improved.

So take your opinion, drop it, and suggest something useful instead of wasting our time.

Like so many did with the gtb nerf in the first place.

[geldaz]

It's a SUGGESTION,anyone has the rights to critiquize it,give YOU their opinions. That's what I'm doing. What's wrong with it? You've got to accept others opinions too. I'm telling you this won't work and I can keep saying why it won't in million ways. You just got to accept that. I'm not insulting you am I? You actually did insult my capability,but I didn't really take it deeply. Do the same (;

P.S : This is your thread,your suggestion. I'm here to critiquize and give my opinion about it,and maybe come with something better. Good suggestions aren't made in 1 day (;.

[Ryoji]

I'm telling you this won't work and I can keep saying why it won't in million ways.

Then PLEASE list them! I've been waiting for you to list them!

All I've gotten so far is.

This is a waste of time.

This won't work.

You're not being fair.

Only profs will benefit.

PLEASE tell me WHY

That's all I'm asking for.

And I did just acknowledge it's your opinion.

But this thread is made to help improve or alter something to overcoming gtb.

So why don't you help out instead of prolonging this, and state why you feel that way.

[geldaz]

Well..a million is a way to say but yeah.. I'll list a few

''Dispell'' skill dispelling FCP is way to bad. Think about how it would be abused. I honestly wouldn't even wear damage cards anymore. I'd use Valkyrie card,Whitesmith and Stormy Knight. I'll give you an example,which would completely kill a class : You're a SinX,fighting a Paladin. You're using the card combo I said above. You dispell the paladin,his fcp dissapears,and not only his FCP,but his skills,that means,REFLECT. Paladins were made to reflect,so to revive 1/100 of a class,we 100% kill another? No reflect,no armour,being constantly frozen. This would go for any other class.

((Well,that's my idea. I tried to organize it so I didn't had to make MANY about the same thing (; ))

''Dispell'' going through GTB : I don't disagree,in fact I want to see more suggestions comming up to try to promote Magic Classes to a Higher hum.. ''Rank''. But if we're going to make changes,they must be GOOD so we don't keep asking for more and more. ''Dispell'' bypassing GTB kills their buffs. I'm not sure if you have noticed,but EDP doesn't get dispelled,atleast for me,what does is the Convertor/elemental ,that's why your damage lowers significantly. But killing their buffs ISN'T ENOUGH. What can you do? Well,it will give a little edge and promote professors to support a little,but professors are a Magical Class. They can't depend on 1 single skill.

Well,I tried to organize it as good as I could. Hope ye understend what I said.

[Ryoji]

''Dispell'' skill dispelling FCP is way to bad. Think about how it would be abused. I honestly wouldn't even wear damage cards anymore. I'd use Valkyrie card,Whitesmith and Stormy Knight. I'll give you an example,which would completely kill a class : You're a SinX,fighting a Paladin. You're using the card combo I said above. You dispell the paladin,his fcp dissapears,and not only his FCP,but his skills,that means,REFLECT. Paladins were made to reflect,so to revive 1/100 of a class,we 100% kill another? No reflect,no armour,being constantly frozen. This would go for any other class.

Okay, I understand that. But, what if we lowered to a low % that it was a rare occurance?

Also, even if you did get dispelled and your fcp goes away it doesn't mean all your skills are going to work at the same time.

Just as FCP dispelling would have a % chance, so does WS and so does SK. Even though SK would be a little worse.

Yet, if we lowered Dispelling FCP down to like 5% or even less (That is if dispell auto goes through gtb)

Then that would require still a bit of time to dispell, and then have the other cards work following the dispell.

Yet, if we were to lower the percentage even more by making dispell only pass gtb at a percent then dispelling FCP following

that would make it even rarer. Because then lets say it's 50% to bypass and 5% to get rid of FCP.

Correct my math if i'm wrong, probably am.

First you must bypass gtb, which happens at 50% rate. So you now have about a 1 in 2 chance.

Then only if it is bypassed you have another seperate chance of a 5% chance of dispelling FCP.

So that's still 50% is half your attempts, then not a tenth of those half attempts will dispell FCP.

So it'd be even harder to Dispell FCP.

''Dispell'' going through GTB : I don't disagree,in fact I want to see more suggestions comming up to try to promote Magic Classes to a Higher hum.. ''Rank''. But if we're going to make changes,they must be GOOD so we don't keep asking for more and more. ''Dispell'' bypassing GTB kills their buffs. I'm not sure if you have noticed,but EDP doesn't get dispelled,atleast for me,what does is the Convertor/elemental ,that's why your damage lowers significantly. But killing their buffs ISN'T ENOUGH. What can you do? Well,it will give a little edge and promote professors to support a little,but professors are a Magical Class. They can't depend on 1 single skill.

Alright, I completely agree.

This almost isn't enough, because it really wouldn't allow magic classes to fight on their own like normal.

However, I'm only suggesting this as a minimum and we'd still end up asking for more. It's not a one fix all suggestion.

As convenient as that is, this would only prove useful in some rare pvp cases or in party/WoE strategy.

It would still change pvp and WoE to some high degree, at least for prof classes but it still wouldn't do as much as

fully restore the magic classes to it's rightful position.

Which is kind of why I was hoping the FCP dispell would back it up.

Seeing as a damage bypass of gtb is essentially the same as a gtb nerf, and that's probably not going to happen.

I appreciate you going about it this way alot better, thanks. ^^;

[» Pat]

Could somebody squeeze all that into one short text please? 2L2R.

[Ryoji]

If everyone can dispell FCP, they will abuse

Then how about we make it a low % so that it's a low chance?

The magic class deserves more then just this

Yup, but not much we can do right now.

THERE YA GO BLUEBERRY

[» Pat]

Way better. <3

[Ryoji]

Bump, someone else reply and make a comment. Preferabley Genesis or Zeit. <3

[Shadow Cloner]

Look, all I'm saying is this thread is full of people who support this idea.

...

but since this isn't a thread asking if you think this is pointless or not,

it's a thread about a suggestion to help 2 or more classes in attempt to create more balance

which only allows suggestions and other ideas which this should or shouldn't be implemented or improved.

I would like to see the poll of this. Thank you.

If there is no proof that full of people support this idea, I can't accept just that.

Suggestion doesn't means no critism. As we are trying for the same purpose, we have different ideas. It's normal even in suggestion section to have opposition. It's the thing that I guess you never learned. Pointless or not, it already tells something: not everyone behind your idea. Maybe some parts of you ideas but not totally.

What's so hard about changing the code of one card?

Even I could attempt it and I'm a scripting noob, especially at C. :rolleyes:

It is not about changing one card, mind you. FCP dispell is additional code to the current existed skills of either FCP or Dispell. Not only that, adding Dispell to bypass GTB is also additional code to either Dispell or GTB.

Even your code are wrong in some way. Here using eAthena-TXT-13075(Stable).

{ bonus bUnbreakableWeapon,0; bonus2 bAddRace,RC_NonBoss,10; bonus2 bAddRace,RC_Boss,10; bonus2 bAddRace2,5,10; bonus3 bAutoSpell,"SA_DISPELL",1,10; if(BaseClass == Job_Mage (or Job_Wizard) ) {skill "SA_DISPELL",1},{},{}

[» Pat]

{ bonus bUnbreakableWeapon,0; bonus2 bAddRace,RC_NonBoss,10; bonus2 bAddRace,RC_Boss,10; bonus2 bAddRace2,5,10; bonus3 bAutoSpell,289,1,10; if(BaseClass == Job_Mage) bonus { skill 289,1,10} },{},{}

Should work somehow like that.

If class is mage cls, gain skill Dispell Lvl 1.

What's so hard about changing the code of one card?

Even I could attempt it and I'm a scripting noob, especially at C. :rolleyes:

And where di I mention to change Dispell / FCP / whatever?

[Ryoji]

A poll will be opened formaly upon agreeance of it's design of suggestion.

As long as people disagree with us, and post in here we can fix it before we poll it.

However if we poll something and many people disagree and we didn't make changes

The idea would almost instantly be lost.

So any and all ideas to fix it is appreciated, if not we're keeping it as it is and releasing a poll later.

And yes, the script can be done.

Don't worry about adding extra script because it had to be done sooner or later for some addition.

Now Bump, for suggestions to this suggestion so it may be altered for a happier feel, etc.

Preferabley Genesis or Zeit. Still.

[Rosed]

Why change it though? Gravity made the skill that way because they know it's normal and okay.

[Sorrow]

You're right; the skill is normal and it works properly for the porpouse of low rates how ragnarok was intended to be.

However the FRo we all love so much is a high rate, and GTB, a card that should be super hyper mega rare, in here is something of public domain, and it renders the magic class play useless on its almost totality. And some players, like me for instance, enjoy playing magic classes, hence the change ^^"

This is "The why" ideas such as this are given; cause a single card kills the essence of 3+ jobs, there are players who enjoy said jobs and the skills as they are curriently don't allow a fair gameplay and performance of said classes cause of this card ^^

PS: Of course if this change was to happen, still is not enough...but it would be a step closer to the ever dreamt balance.

[Ryoji]

You might be wondering why gtb itself isn't nerfed, that would get rid of the problem at source.

Well, that change is a bit too drastic, not to mention the fact magic classes may become too overpowered.

Making it the same problem just reversed to the other classes.

This suggestion is implied so that magic classes can win or at least fight back to some extent

without being too overly powerful..

If these suggestions were to be put in, then if a magic class does beat you

You deserve to be beaten, because you were beaten by someone with skill.

So if you'd win, you'd win for being a better player. Not because you owned a card that instant wins.

[Ryoji]

BUMP!!!!

Also, under recent study I've decided to be against FCP dispell.

I'm now only pushing for gtb bypass with dispell and increased magic crasher damage.

Now someone else pass this shit. )=

[Ryoji]

Bump...

I'm on every day people.

This has to get looked at eventually.

[Ryoji]

It's been over a month and no GMs have even come close to saying yes or no.

[Preferabley ONLY Zeit or Gen]

=P

C'mon I know you've viewed it before.

Right, now I'm in favor still of dispell going past gtb.

(Prof class only would be nice, or even giving wiz dispell too)

(Not valk item dispell though :] )

At least then I can make those champs stop chasing me. x_x