Dispell Suggestion

[Trochilidae]

From my knowledge, yes there would.

[Ryoji]

From my knowledge, yes there would.

Do It.

[geldaz]

I honestly don't get how dispell passing GTB would help. You can't still hit them. You can just be a LITTLE more usefull during fights and support your friend.

[Ryoji]

I honestly don't get how dispell passing GTB would help. You can't still hit them. You can just be a LITTLE more usefull during fights and support your friend.

Exactly.

[-Insane-]

Wizards can't dispell unless card. Want wizards to meele? Meh,this won't surely work. Way to sleepy to come with a better post explaining it atm.

I melee with my prof all the time. In fact, I can get a higher dps with melee than with normal spamming (and 10% aftercast reduction) when I have a soul link.

Combine that with wild rose hat, and if dispell gets rid of FCP, booyah.

While we're on the topic we should get rid of FCP completely.

FCP makes my stalker useless, FCP makes my prof useless, FCP makes my pally useless, FCP makes my champ useless unless I'm fighting a total noob, the list goes on.

(That doesn't mean I can't beat two fcpd paladins vsing me at the same time, warping out of freeze/blade stop AND being ADd at the same time on my champ.... you know who you are. =P)

[geldaz]

This is not the brag thread my friend. And I don't care if you meele dps. Magical classes weren't mean to meele,get that straight.

If FCP didn't exist,this server would be the shittiest. To start with ,Strip Shield + Coma. Armour/weapon break. Strip. That sounds pretty fucking unbalanced.

And I don't give a shit about your other characters. Magical class needs to be buffed up.

MAGICAL CLASS was meant to QUICK BURST ALOT OF DAMAGE,not to meele. That's not my opinion. That's a fucking FACT.

[-Insane-]

You, sir, have completely missed the point.

You're trying to insist that wizards and sages *can't* melee at ALL, not even being able to hit, so they can't dispell people.

I was simply reminding you that there are real wizards and sages out there that can, in fact, dispell+strip using melee just fine, while still surviving.

EDIT: And about FCP, strip+coma can take a long time. Surely you can kill your opponent by then, especially considering you have WS and strip too? Also, there are other ways to make your armor and weapon unbreakable, however you have to get rid of elite/f king armor or at least one damage card to do so, making it a bit more balanced.

[nnnitsuj]

Melee**

And Dispell should act like Magic Crasher on GTB users. That way profs have something to pierce GTB like High Wizards do. But I dont know how that work seeing as I wouldnt know how skills. Well thats my input on it.(Dont go flame hard on me. EVERYONES ENTITLED TO THEIR OWN OPINION. YOURS IS AS GOOD AS MINE.)

[geldaz]

You, sir, have completely missed the point.

I don't think I did. I never stated that Wizards And sages CAN'T MEELE AT ALL. I said that they weren't made for it. It's completely diffrent. How is a 100k hp class going to meele a 32k dmg SinX? Oh yeah. Well,appart from being PD/Dodge build,which is just an option people have made to survive longer since a card kills their class.

I hope you have readen it well now >_>. Magic classes WEREN'T MADE TO MEELE. (( Doesn't mean they can't )). They were meant to BURST OUT ALOT OF DAMAGE QUICKLY (( Therefor the low hp and skills that allows them to make their own battleground ))

[Sorrow]

i once suggested this too...but it makes me happy that it was my friend Ryoji who suggested it this time =3

Anyways.

Stating a fact about Dispell; it wasn't meant to be countered, it IS a counter against buff whores. And one of the vital roles for Sages/Professors in WoE always was to dispell the most dangerous figures like champs.

As for dispelling FCP...what about making it a 5% chance of doing so? i mean...the worst about GTB is the combo GTB+FCP that makes wizzies and profs useless.

but...the single fact that Dispell worked vs GTB already sounds great.

BTW i still don't see Dispell one hit KOing people >_>

[Shadow Cloner]

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FCP by its name already told it is based on CHEMICAL. NOT MAGIC. Therefore it is logic that Dispell cannot erase the effect. Instead, there is TAROT, which is based of LUCK destroy the equipment even on FCP.

FCP also there to counter equipment destroyer/stripper. In this case reducing the power of Stalker and any equip destroyer card. Otherwise Stalker and its counterpart will be the Lord of The Game. (Even with 15% chance of Strip or some% of destroy. It's killer)

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Dispell as any other magic is Mental Attribute. Since all Mental Attribute Skill are nullified by GTB card, why not Dispell?

Sages specialities are not only anti-magic anyway. They can also Endow, Support (increasing effectiveness of some element as well as as the base for Wizard Waterball), and Fibre Lock.

---------

FCP+GTB make doesn't necessarily make Sages/Wiz useless. It only lock them into defensive/support duties then to attack and make havoc.

However, Ragnarok Online has the counter to such Combo as well....

(Those who get killed by their own attack already know this ^_^)

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[-Insane-]

I never stated that Wizards And sages CAN'T MEELE AT ALL. I said that they weren't made for it. It's completely diffrent.

I honestly don't get how dispell passing GTB would help. You can't still hit them.

Wizards can't dispell unless card. Want wizards to meele? Meh,this won't surely work.

And for the record, sages *were* meant to melee.

[geldaz]

And for the record, sages *were* meant to melee.

Quoting only what you want? The 2nd quote,it's actually ''Still can't hit them'' with MAGICAL ATTACKS,not melee. 3rd quote I said it WON'T WORK FOR A WIZARD TO MEELE. I never stated they can't melee at all.

And for the record,I was mostly talking about Wizards until you tried to change my phrases when quoting.

[Sorrow]

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FCP by its name already told it is based on CHEMICAL. NOT MAGIC. Therefore it is logic that Dispell cannot erase the effect. Instead, there is TAROT, which is based of LUCK destroy the equipment even on FCP.

FCP also there to counter equipment destroyer/stripper. In this case reducing the power of Stalker and any equip destroyer card. Otherwise Stalker and its counterpart will be the Lord of The Game. (Even with 15% chance of Strip or some% of destroy. It's killer)

---------

Dispell as any other magic is Mental Attribute. Since all Mental Attribute Skill are nullified by GTB card, why not Dispell?

Sages specialities are not only anti-magic anyway. They can also Endow, Support (increasing effectiveness of some element as well as as the base for Wizard Waterball), and Fibre Lock.

---------

FCP+GTB make doesn't necessarily make Sages/Wiz useless. It only lock them into defensive/support duties then to attack and make havoc.

However, Ragnarok Online has the counter to such Combo as well....

(Those who get killed by their own attack already know this ^_^)

---------

Being a chemical doesn't change the fact it is a buff and dispell is a debuffer. Finding logic like this in something that has things such as a person being able to carry over two thousand apples and fight normally while doing so, is pointless. We're talking about game mechanics, not RolePlaying/Reality avaliation.

Mental atribute; The topic is about this, Dispell is affected by GTB like every spell, and the idea proposed by the topic is changing this fact.

And the word 'useless' is used to point out the situation of a wizzard/sage evaluated in a fair situation like a duel 1vs1. Being locked in the defensive you just can't win. And since the sitution in question says you're alone against someone who is also alone, support isn't exactly something to be considered.

In other words...you only said things we all already know ^^

And Sages/professors in lowrates can be made to go meelee. But anyone who played as one in a low rate knows that dealing physical damage while meeleeing as a Battle sage/professor isn't even 25% of the efficiency of one...the real secret of a battle sage/professor is Free cast, Hindsight and Autocasting equipments/cards.

[geldaz]

Dispell is affected by GTB like every spell

Word. Dispell is like anyother spell. Therefor changing GTB to allow dispell go through it is pointless and senseless. Either nerf GTB for once and for all,or don't do minor things that won't even help in a battle. Wizards can't dispell. This is pointless imo

[Sorrow]

Word. Dispell is like anyother spell. Therefor changing GTB to allow dispell go through it is pointless and senseless. Either nerf GTB for once and for all,or don't do minor things that won't even help in a battle. Wizards can't dispell. This is pointless imo

i'm inclined to agree with you...but you know, it's fruitless to try and force things this way. i wonder when all this drama will end and people will be able to play fairly as a spellcaster.

[Daniel Rose]

Well sorry for straying off topic but I belive their should be something to get rid of FCP. I say this for 3 reasons.

1)So strip can be useful

2)So break can be useful

3)So I can have the Mastersmiths in my guild repair me more during WOE(lol)

However in all seriousness their should be a way around FCP.

[Shadow Cloner]

Being a chemical doesn't change the fact it is a buff and dispell is a debuffer. Finding logic like this in something that has things such as a person being able to carry over two thousand apples and fight normally while doing so, is pointless. We're talking about game mechanics, not RolePlaying/Reality avaliation.

It is about the game mechanics. The game was made to have a link to reality anyway. Otherwise it will be just another WoW. <_<

I don't see FCP is a buff since it doesn't affect any stats at all, mechanic wise. It is just we're facing full equip enemy for longer when someone FCPed. Let's just consider the chance of breaking or stripping doesn't appear.

And the word 'useless' is used to point out the situation of a wizzard/sage evaluated in a fair situation like a duel 1vs1. Being locked in the defensive you just can't win. And since the sitution in question says you're alone against someone who is also alone, support isn't exactly something to be considered.

In other words...you only said things we all already know ^^

Then you hasn't know anything yet. :P

NOT always the case. I already told. In Ragnarok, there IS some ways to counter such situation. And in High Rate, they are even more abundand. The question is, were they overlooked by you? I guess the last sentence from my old message already gives you some hint. ^_^

[Sorrow]

Assumptio doesn't affect any stats as well and it is cancelled by Dispell :blink:

The definition for a 'buff' here is "a state that gives you some support advantage for given time spam". Since, normally, strip skills do work on anyone, and this condition FCP gives you the advantage of not being affected by it, it is a buff.

Ways like OL? =P Try killing a 200k+ HP pally with a 60k HP wizzard using only reflect and see if it's as easy as you think it is...and we are talking about high rate...a duel of GTB+FCP meelee VS spellcaster isn't a common occourence in a low rate, in here, it happens too often, hence why magical classes are underplayed; GTB is a standard noob equipment, and it kills the essence of 3+ jobs at once =P

The idea presented by this topic was a modification as a...kind of incentive for people to start using active spellcasters and actually winning by adding a posibility that doesn't exist for now, hence why it is in "suggestion" forun.

Honestly, i don't think it's enough, but as they say...1 is better than 0 XD i kind of side with ANY idea for spellcasters...they are extremely underpowered in here you know.

[Shadow Cloner]

I do honestly think that the game has some logical aspect at least. Dispell is mental attribute cleaner/debuffer as well as Status canceller and that makes Assumptio can be dispelled while FCP and EDP can't (unless you dispell them using wet cloth and detergent ^_^ ). Some expanded classes skills can't also get dispelled (It's just because sages depends on old dusty book too much, I think).

GTB card is fair enough cancel all mental attribute magic and support skills. It is because in Low Rate, it is almost impossible to attain Mdef 99+ compared to Def 99+. With magic is huge dmg and doesn't affected by ASPD, it's a huge benefit to Magic class.

In High Rate, GTB is a bit of nuisance indeed, but as well as in Low Rate, strategies are needed to combat the disadvantage (and it is to change disadvantage into advantage) if you want to survive, otherwise, Poring will rule the world. I also don't see why Dispell can hurt someone even if it pass through GTB anyway, unless you're GvG/WoE/Party vs Party, but it still make Sages just a support. It's better to just endow and let the Tarot work in (It can also coma someone B) )

I can understand about this in suggestion forum, but the idea has some weaknesses:

1. There is/are alternative/s to counter such problem and still winning. Or at least, there is a suggestion about GTB only covers 80% MATK. (Well, I would rather to go to 98+303 Mdef if that happens. It hits me 1 all the time even with Int Belt :D ).

2. Letting Dispell pass GTB won do any damage at all. It only debuff but you still can't kill. This idea is brought to this forum in the consideration of Party v Party/GvG/WoE not PvP.

3. Allowing Dispell pass GTB will let 2/4 (Sage, Rogue, Prof, Stalker) Classes kill all 39 classes (Novice can't PvP which already set by sakray clients unless hacked). It's just make the game useless to play anymore.

[Sorrow]

Detergent still wouldn't dispell EDP...we better try to forcefeed assassins some antidote then =P Attention concentrate, Falcon's Eyes and Wind Walk "supposedly" aren't magic skills, but they also get dispelled :rolleyes: i think the initial balance of dispell made for Low rates is that "buffs that need itens that are hard to obtain can't be dispelled".

Think in the class as whole; spellcasters pay a price for their huge damage output; they die fast. AND coma don't work on GTB =P (it nullifies alone two things that could make a caster prevail)

Yeah as i said, i don't think this is enough, but anything is better than the currient situation.

1.High Wizz card could make those 1 damage...grow you know XD

2.If Dispell went through GTb and dispelled FCP(at least CPS) it would be perfectly fit for PvP

3.On low rate FCP isn't as abundant and GTB is a couple per server, still, the game isn't "useless to play" besides the amount of sages and professors is awfully low =P

See? It's easy to counter anything...except a caster win against GTB+FCP. Besides if there was a failproof tatic against it, don't you think the server would have more casters active pvp wise?

[» Pat]

Allowing Dispell pass GTB will let 2/4 (Sage, Rogue, Prof, Stalker) Classes kill all 39 classes.

I'm k with that. (:

[Ryoji]

Okay, time for me to give a few more words.

Problem #1

Those of you who say profs weren't made to melee, are...

Wrong.

Profs have a few major traits, one of them being their ability

To melee and do random chances of spells instantly as you attack.

Almost half their skills only supporting to direct meleeing anyways.

Problem #2

For those of you who say things shouldn't be dispelled because it's not logical.

You are still wrong.

Sorrow is still right, because no matter how much you twinkle it up with pixie dust..

It is still a buff.

Besides, Dispell is magic. Magic is almost divine powers at work.

Since when is there a limit on the divine powers when it comes to chemicals vs magic?

Also, isn't Alchemy also known as a form of magic *COUGH* Not to mention that's the FCP class. <3

Problem #3

It won't do anything?

zOMG wut?

Wrong again, allowing dispell to pass through will do TONS of things.

Sure if we can't kill you it's only useful in WoE/PartyvsParty and such HOWEVER~!

Tons of classes rely on buffs, know it or not.

Being able to dispell a champ, will keep me from getting one shotted by 200k dmg to my 100k hp. =P

Being able to dispell a sinx, will keep them from going EDP happy with their 32k hits on my face.

It goes on, and on, and on.

Being able to dispell FCP however! THAT IS ANOTHER STORY!

To dispell that wouldn't just be WoE purposes. It would bring pvp back to many classes.

Any class would be able to get rid of FCP, and would be able to strip/break gears.

ANY class. That's right. ANY. Meaning they'd all be the same! Wow! Balance much?

This actually brings a chance to magic classes.

Meaning, if you're not able to stop them from dispelling you.

Be it a spell, tarot, or valk card. And then they strip you before you FCP again.

You almost deserve to have died. =P

This would bring a whole new variety and outlook on pvp and WoE

in such epic standards, even if it is such a tiny request.

Problem #4

Gtb needs to be nerfed or not.

It's all or nothing.

I don't agree with half this logic.

For one, I was against the gtb nerf and still am.

Even though my views changed after quite awhile, I still stand beside it.

There is nothing wrong with GTB, however there is something else wrong

with nothing being able to touch it or bypass it.

That's what we're trying to fix.

So if you don't have some good reason as to why this shouldn't be implemented.

Other then you saying it's useless.

Because we've already proven it's not.

Then go +1 post elsewhere. )=

Also, this does give the possibilities of magic classes over running pvp and stuff.

But at the same time it is not a 100% chance, like a gtb nerf would do.

[Shadow Cloner]

Detergent still wouldn't dispell EDP...we better try to forcefeed assassins some antidote then =P Attention concentrate, Falcon's Eyes and Wind Walk "supposedly" aren't magic skills, but they also get dispelled :rolleyes: i think the initial balance of dispell made for Low rates is that "buffs that need itens that are hard to obtain can't be dispelled".

Think in the class as whole; spellcasters pay a price for their huge damage output; they die fast. AND coma don't work on GTB =P (it nullifies alone two things that could make a caster prevail)

Yeah as i said, i don't think this is enough, but anything is better than the currient situation.

1.High Wizz card could make those 1 damage...grow you know XD

2.If Dispell went through GTb and dispelled FCP(at least CPS) it would be perfectly fit for PvP

3.On low rate FCP isn't as abundant and GTB is a couple per server, still, the game isn't "useless to play" besides the amount of sages and professors is awfully low =P

See? It's easy to counter anything...except a caster win against GTB+FCP. Besides if there was a failproof tatic against it, don't you think the server would have more casters active pvp wise?

At least dilute them so not as dangerous as it should be or just let choked to death by antidote or detergent poisoning :lol:

Mental Attributes skill is skills which is depends on the state of mind of the user, not only magic. Attn-Cons and Falcon's Eyes are affecting it as well. I had never imagine about Wind Walk so I won't comment on that, but I do think it is not running as well B) (It's like an old Chinese Kung-Fu skill).

I had seen someone hits me 2000 something with FBH, so that's not the only one (HWiz Mdef ignorance is good indeed. ;) ). It's off topic now...

There are Pros and Contras of every rate of server so I kinda let you think why on your own (Otherwise it will be another boring lecture I make every day).

[wiwi]

1st 30% is pretty much the same as 100%... prof can just spam the dispell....therefore i say 5-10%

2nd 1-2% destroy fcp, sounds fair to me

3rd stave crashers penetrate pneuma by a %, not 100%...or else why should people pneuma in the first place? I say...30-50% /ok

my two cents :)

oh, wait. there's another penny in the pocket, so make it 3 XD