NERFING

[c0okiee]

Well the name of the topic is nerfing lol might as well start suggesting stuff u guys want balanced here (can be either to nerf or Buff) 

Example- Like why LK Ullrs is used for BB Spam like a baws even though its got -30% or -50%(not sure) bb dmg its still better for BB then LK Freyr's blade lol *RIP LK's* (B< Freyr Blade Buff)

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2016 by c0okiee
mispell

[Rayray]

Can people calm down?  What nerf are we talking about here because I am confused, i just had flashbacks on what went through the TK balancing thread; that was a long week.

First of all, i am pretty sure Ares or Genesis states that all items released are subject to change(i remember seeing it anyway).  Also, I will quote Genesis on the TK thread:

" For the record, the "beta" server (which I assume you are referring to the test server) is for testing technical issues and preliminary balancing issues. There are never more than 3 people on the test server. The information we gather on the test server in a week is equal to what we can gather on the live server is a few hours. No one forced you to do the quest or ask people to buy the items for you. We blatantly told you when we released these items that they would be changed. The "beta server" served its purpose. It is not our fault you did not head our warning. "

That seems a bit harsh but they did say that the items are gonna be changed depending on community feedback.

Also, hardware is not equal to software.  You cannot compare manufacturing a phone to this, that is why games have patches.  Those bugs or other stuff can only be seen when players find it, not the development team, unless you are willing to hire hundreds of testers just for it.

The "i paid for this item" argument is also not applicable here really.  Just because you paid/quested for an item, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be nerfed when the community certainly feels it needs to be.  You may have quested for it, but we also did, just on different item for a different class ,so people here are pretty much on equal terms with regards to opinion. 

You also cannot use the "if you dont have this ring, your argument is invalid" argument.  If I shot you with a gun and I say "you don't have a gun, you don't know the disadvantages of having it.", would you just simply agree to my statement? 

People help me out here, answer this questions so we can have a decent discussion.  Any GM out there to move this to suggestions and change the title?  I think this is about SG but let us wait for the OP to confirm.

1.  How much damage SG does on a hatred target?
2.  What item is in question with regards to nerfing?  Please put description here.

[c0okiee]

Ty Ray,

Well i might as well suggest the SG stuff here then

i dont need to say how powerful the Star glad class is when hatred is used and also how weak the class is when it comes to HP and sustainability so there in the high dmg is justifiable but not to an extent where they  1shot players PLz

Their rings however are not ballanced the SG B Ring might be good  i feel or hopefully atleast :D. My point of interest comes to the SG Gring  and B ring with following attributes 

Star Gladiator Guardian

Str +20**, Vit +20, Max HP +25%, Max SP +10%, Walking speed +15%, Reduce Vit def by 10%,

Crit +100, Atk +8%, Inflict 15% more damage with Critical Attacks, 2% chance to cast Counter Kick with increased damage of 700% when doing physical damage,

Reduce damage taken from Demihumans by 5%

Star Gladiator Divine

Str +10, Vit +30, Max HP +15%, Max SP +25%, Atk +8%, Hit +100, Walking speed +15%, Reduce Vit def by 10%,

Increase damage to Ghost property by 15%, Increase damage to small sized monsters by 20%,

Reflect single target Magic damage to caster (50% chance)

Reduce damage taken from Demihumans by 5%

Sg normally have Hatred skill and their combo unlike TK's (who need to be ranked to have good combo)is different and like really have a lot of dmg burst so on 3 specific classes they choose they can literally do like sooo much dmg.  This being kept in mind like see the difference in the stats the G ring gives extra str and extra HP With a 2% chance of 700% kick and with hatred let me remind u thats 2100% dmg lol which cant be survived maybe only pallies but even they die if on gtb...

the following link is a video of SG doing normal combo on me and He hasnt procced the 2% counter kick at all in this video so the combo hes performing is purely normal dmg with hatred skill on

Plz notice dmg lol and u can only immagine how much more the 2% chance does i apologize for being unable to record it i had few issues using the software

I dont see reason to why a class with such high burst needs another proc for a higher burst dmg lol balance SG overall dmg if possible and Also  balance SG G ring to match its counterpart Bless ring , or Reduce that 2%proc bonus dmg from 700% to a lower dmg 

LF< ppl to help me test more for this ring (honestly ive no idea much about SG but the basics and countering a class with 7 different Elemental dmg changing armors and cloaks etc With that kinda Burst is not possible atleast for me and few players ) u can say countering is easy but it isnt . If any one has any other suggestion for this topic plz add any input (positive or negative in respect to topic....... NOT OUT OF TOPIC PLZ) and try to keep it non personal here 

 if required i can show u videos further into this topic

(this video isnt great lol cldnt make my other software work on my work comp)

http://youtu.be/_3joDMYNCqw 

And im a LK with 450k hp almost 

Edited October 27, 2016 by c0okiee
mispell

[Rayray]

The SG there has a party right?  Sorry the video link you showed is a bit blurry.  can you just list how much damage he does really.

And anybody else know the exact damage of counter kick when it procs? 

[c0okiee]

they do 138k+each hit*3(414k dmg) for counter kick and heel drop around the same on my LK and thats theyr normal counter kick, that player did 170k each hit*3(510k dmg) when the 2% counter kick procs

i tried angelring on and his normal counter kick did 100k odd each hit*3 which was his lowest on me u can test it and prove it

the video i linked sux but watch it frame by frame when he starts attacking me u can see my hp go red and i healed up lol(i was red 1 time and then died 2nd counter kick lol)

just notice my hp bar ul see it

[Maiimaii]

I agree with that instead nerfing other class just boost the other class like stalker got nerfed and now cheap af same goes gs nerfed too much wayyy too much. And some other gears aswell

[Nas]

No ray, my point is between note7 n updates nowdays is like that, you pointed it before "like seriously average damage now is 70-100k,i only can do that if my mammo thana and his on gtb" these bug will not showned up if update itself not "Overpower" like bioC 300%++ mammo damage. Why need hundreds %. For forum sake come play back, Or at least test it. Yes no one forced you to donate, but please who'll not /slur if there such hundreds% . Or what i can said,advertisement skill. 

Cookie, sg got less hp,if u grab 2ol and bb him(he'll default rsx tho) u can tank that, in other words he cant tank that.

*based on expriments, you can ask jake,tarishnav,leona both of us pvping with im default 2ol and im use bio(less hp without tgk) sometimes i win,sometimes him. He used sg.G ofc.and i why not grab some token fir buy VR.

On WoE, well i dont judge any of this, if you got devo, then you can be sg. Or else, you just suicide there. Back then sg doesnt have valk wep, 4slotted wep. These cards also give big influence to damage u deal, reduce 700% damage for 500% is fine.its 2% tho. 25% hp is fine, without devo sg is dead meat. About kihop, thats natural of sg, you got more guildmate, more high damage you can deal. (Merged some more) to get those kihop efficient :)

[p3wp3w]

Btw, is there a possibility that more people can luckily be chosen to be part of the beta testing for items? more brains, the better right? this also further avoids us from arguing on unnecessary re-balancing of these items :)

Edited October 27, 2016 by p3wp3w
:P

[onetwothree]

Well since this is a topic for nerfs, how can ws's with gring cast napalm vulcan on command? Im reading the effect and it doesnt say enable use of napalm vulcan. 

i tried browsing for cards and scrolls but couldnt find any. Does fro offer such?

and as for sg's doing a ridiculous amount of damage to targets with hatred, let's also talk about the damage it does to the ones without hatred? How much? 45k total? And by chance? 

You nerf it, you kill it. Like what happened to the new batch of bash type sinx's with brutal helms. Theyre all dead.

 

 

[c0okiee]

screw it i rest my case on u guys to decide lol. At the rate of dmg ive seen few grings do including my own WS g ring its like a super high rate server lol im just trying to suggest that it needs to be normal high rate. At present its like i choose between which class to die from in a party battle counter SG die from Ninja/champ or counter ninja and die to SG lol both are at a state where they are beyond top class atm. Bio C ring in my opinion is fine caz i can still survive smhow or fight them but i see no difference from their build to SN C ring with 1000% mamo buff back then lol but hey i leave it to u guys.

Many ppl said its easy to counter SG its true maybe but they have 7 elements guys (considering fire,water,wind,earth same)thats still 4 lol and ofc i can change armor and cloak but my point is they will still do more then half my hp dmg with negative element ( like if im AR card and they use any element except shadow or if im on neutral and they use any element or shadow and they use any elemnt but ghost/shadow) and cloaks for ghost or shadow or holy resist gear makes me weak again from other classes so choosing from what to die from is hard lol. Other players plz try to look into that 2% counter kick dmg too its insane lol                                                                                                                                Also theyr Fsk with sprint+tumbling hurts lol and its anoying as shit caz hard to catch them if ur a melee class and u cant use magic(default gtb) and they got tumbling for ranged skills lol

Tks have been nerfed like what 2-3 times now? wonder why lol Cough*cough*

B< Ninja Nerf, B> SG Nerf 

@mai buff other classes works with me too +1 for that like i always said 

Last post im gonna make on this lol if sm1 else sees it like i do kewl

[onetwothree]

Cookie, i was asking how can ws's with gring cast napalm vulcan on command?

[c0okiee]

3 minutes ago, onetwothree said:

Well since this is a topic for nerfs, how can ws's with gring cast napalm vulcan on command? Im reading the effect and it doesnt say enable use of napalm vulcan. 

i tried browsing for cards and scrolls but couldnt find any. Does fro offer such?

and as for sg's doing a ridiculous amount of damage to targets with hatred, let's also talk about the damage it does to the ones without hatred? How much? 45k total? And by chance? 

You nerf it, you kill it. Like what happened to the new batch of bash type sinx's with brutal helms. Theyre all dead.

 

 

yea i had personally writen a ticket on ws napalm myself lol its strong but hey having the skill for Gring is good becaz its enabling a completely new build for this Class which love. Sure if sm1 else wants to test by all means do it and id love to see ur suggestion for the ring. The effect of ws gring mentioned in forums update is different i get Napalm lvl 5 from the ring its a good thing though considering how much hate for WS exists in server.

If ur suggesting it has to be like it was mentioned id -1 that caz id have to melee players instead of casting it like i am now. Considering how active this ring has enabled me to be in Woe and pvp that would be like a reverse step lol.

Its good the way it is enabling Napalm for us dont hate the class dude if u have any issues on the dmg related part sure address it here. I will infact support u lol 

Gm Genesis had personally said himself grings are for completely new builds now 

that was related to pally gring post but i guess he meant for all grings too

[c0okiee]

the rings few of them got reworked or updated u can see which rings in the updates hidden section

ive been using ws g ring for a while now probably everyone knows i can use the skill i dont see whats wrong with the skill itself but sure i agree dmg could use some work. Id love to personally see to balance it even lol

[onetwothree]

15 hours ago, c0okiee said:

yea i had personally writen a ticket on ws napalm myself lol its strong but hey having the skill for Gring is good becaz its enabling a completely new build for this Class which love. Sure if sm1 else wants to test by all means do it and id love to see ur suggestion for the ring. The effect of ws gring mentioned in forums update is different i get Napalm lvl 5 from the ring its a good thing though considering how much hate for WS exists in server.

If ur suggesting it has to be like it was mentioned id -1 that caz id have to melee players instead of casting it like i am now. Considering how active this ring has enabled me to be in Woe and pvp that would be like a reverse step lol.

Its good the way it is enabling Napalm for us dont hate the class dude if u have any issues on the dmg related part sure address it here. I will infact support u lol 

Gm Genesis had personally said himself grings are for completely new builds now 

that was related to pally gring post but i guess he meant for all grings too

 

No, I dont mind it having that effect. I don't mind it being overpowered during woe. -because i havent tried it myself. But do you get the picture? You dont get alot of hate for it because you dont really use it in fild. And Im sure we both know what your reason is for not showing it.

the moment you kill people in fild and show how you can kill them with something they havent tried,   youll have that one person who will report it here. or submit a ticket. 

why not make the item accessible to everyone first before nerfing it? that way, those without any idea how it works can rightfully say it should be nerfed.

 

[c0okiee]

i actually do use it a lot in fild and despite how strong it is ppl countered with 4 simple things namely 1.gtb, 2. reflect (through maya and other cards), and 2 other ways which u can guess easily.

This skill is a ghost element property hence why it proves effective in woe. Im personally telling u myself i want to balance(nerf) it lol dude and im literally the only guy with this ring

25 minutes ago, onetwothree said:

the moment you kill people in fild and show how you can kill them with something they havent tried,   youll have that one person who will report it here. or submit a ticket. 

why not make the item accessible to everyone first before nerfing it? that way, those without any idea how it works can rightfully say it should be nerfed.

 

i dint quite understand what u meant here. 

if ur meaning i started this entire topic caz u killed me it isnt lol. I started it caz of Bape XD that guy used to 1 shot fsk me and then kill me again and again he did it to my SN with 600k hp as well

and dude let me be u already got other players commenting on this topic too some even supporting u as i said in my previous post i rest my case lol what happens happens

by making it accessible what do u mean?

Edited October 27, 2016 by c0okiee
mispell

[onetwothree]

oh no

15 hours ago, c0okiee said:

i actually do use it a lot in fild and despite how strong it is ppl countered with 3 simple things namely 1.gtb, 2. reflect (through maya and other cards), and 2 other ways which u can guess easily.

This skill is a ghost element property hence why it proves effective in woe. Im personally telling u myself i want to balance(nerf) it lol dude and im literally the only guy with this ring

i dint quite understand what u meant here. 

if ur meaning i started this entire topic caz u killed me it isnt lol. I started it caz of Bape XD that guy used to 1 shot fsk me and then kill me again and again he did it to my SN with 600k hp as well

and dude let me be u already other players commenting on this topic too some even supporting u as i said in my previous post i rest my case lol what happens happens

by making it accessible what do u mean?

 

 

16

no not at all. sheesh. what I was trying to say on that post was if players with no WSg ring will see you own them ALOT of times in fild where they can see your damage output and dont understand how it happens then there'll be that one person who will report it here. 

accessible meaning have other players get a chance to use it first. make the "OP" effect last longer before jumping into nerfing them.  

If youre saying that your build should be nerfed and youre the only one using it then sure go ahead nerf it(it's 100%). but SG's like us (probably 10 or more now in the server?  it used to be just me and bape) should be the ones to have a say on the matter of SG's getting a nerf- instead of those who dont own one. get my point?

also, where is that hidden update page? been trying to look for it

 

also might I add, do SG's, WS's, Sinx bash really deserve/d nerfs? because OBVIOUSLY  the ones OWNING the pvp ladder with no competition should be the focus of NERFS (you have a ninja there with what? 300 kills? do you see any SG in the top 3?) 

that pvp ladder should give you an idea on what and what not to nerf because THEYRE the ones benefiting the MOST with this nerfs. LESS COMPETITION for them. MORE PVP TOKS. you KNOW im RIGHT.

 

Edited October 27, 2016 by onetwothree

[c0okiee]

1 minute ago, onetwothree said:

 If youre saying that your build should be nerfed and youre the only one using it then sure go ahead nerf it(it's 100%). but SG's like us (probably 10 or more now in the server?  it used to be just me and bape) should be the ones to have a say on the matter of SG's getting a nerf- instead of those who dont own one. get my point?

also, where is that hidden update page? been trying to look for it

uhh in the last update before haloween scroll down and click on the item improvements -story line rings

dude thats why ive mentioned it here so ppl can address it too..... few will be against it few for it thats how forums always works. And my WS ring i play it normally no one seems to have shared their concerns about it or mentioned about any nerf for it so i thought it was just my thought. Im not like a VIP dude lol just cause i feel it shld be nerfed it shldnt lol other players need to share their concerns too The more ppl the merrier , and it doesnt specifically have to be players with my ring it can be ppl who feel the need for it too share ur concerns, if u need to know how to counter it id be happy to share that info lol to anyone who asks. Frankly i dont see why ur connecting my Ws to SG atm

[onetwothree]

again cookie, i have no issues with your ring. the only issue I have with you is when you said "nerfing" was being used biasedly when you yourself used the term when you initiated the sg nerf. 

I'l tell you this again - I DONT CARE IF YOUR RING IS OP. I DONT MIND IF THEY WILL NERF IT OR NOT BECAUSE I DONT HAVE A WSGRING YET.  get my point? that's where the connect is. 

bape does a huge damage with his FSK but have you tried using it yourself?

here's what Im trying to promote now LEAVE SGS ALONE IF YOU DONT OWN ONE. SG's dont benefit from it THAT MUCH. they ONLY have hatred on 3 classes but can die easily if you know how to counter them.

 

[c0okiee]

dude its a i biased term lol it literally means 2 things making stuff balanced or to few it means making stuff useless just a matter of how u look at it. Dude by all means feel free to prove why SG shld stay the same i still hope for a dmg redux. Make ur point talk about ur class u play it dont u? lol
Dude ur wrong to say if u dont own one u dont have right to suggest to nerf it? everyone is free to speak their mind lol it freaking forums 

[onetwothree]

Cookie, because only those who own the build KNOW MORE about it. 

SG's can ONLY place 3 hatred. the ones with no hatred can kill a SG. <-this should be enough

there are elemental redux cards and equips. CLOWNS WITH HATRED don't get BURST <- another point.

In video gaming, a nerf is a change to a game that makes something less effective or desirable. The word can be used as a verb to describe that change. The opposite of nerf is buff or revamp

hence, we're pushing for BUFFING other builds. get the picutre?

[c0okiee]

jesus christ dude if ur giving me a vocabulary lesson let me show u like this

Nerf

In video gaming a nerf is a change to a game that reduces the desirability or effectiveness of a particular game element. The term is also used as a verb for the act of making such a change.The opposite of nerf is buff  

Change-  make or become different -  It can be a possitive or negative thing depends on a persons view of it which is what ive been saying all along lol 

whos the self rhiteous guy now if u cant see that a simple word can have negative or positive effect on people lol. Think about it like this immagine if terrorism is *nerfed* lol isnt that a possitive effect for many people around the world LOL. im just giving this as an example plz dont misunderstand it lol

 

Edited October 27, 2016 by c0okiee
mispell

[c0okiee]

Even a Buff can be a possitive or negative thing its just a matter of perspective and an individuals view of it

[Specter]

15 hours ago, onetwothree said:

oh please. where's your sg ring? if you really have one youd be fully aware of the disadvantages -nuff said-

buffing just doesnt just mean having stronger damage. more lifepool can be a buff. more elemental resist can be a buff. think please.

again youre being one sided. the only time it was about cookie was when he commented that the term nerf is being biasedly used. 

problem with you folks is youre being too self-righteous and not thinking out of the box .  

"more lifepool can be a buff. " SGs can 1 hit pallies when they proc counter kick and they have hatred+kihop on a high numbered party, i used full pally gears on my sinx and reached 450k hp, still 1 hitted by SG, you plan on rising every class HP just because one or two classes damage is overpowered? Then the current damage of the non-OP classes would have to be buffed too since, if everyone has more HP, it's only logical that for that "buff" to be fair, every class needs more damage right? Or else nobody would die because this server uses seeds/berries to heal... "think please", and I'm not even gonna comment on the elemental resist buff, that's just hilarious.

I think you're the only one not thinking out of the box, and you come here to forums to pick a fight with anyone that disagrees with you.

Quoting Ray, this was exactly my point before.
The "i paid for this item" argument is also not applicable here really.  Just because you paid/quested for an item, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be nerfed when the community certainly feels it needs to be.  You may have quested for it, but we also did, just on different item for a different class ,so people here are pretty much on equal terms with regards to opinion. 

You also cannot use the "if you dont have this ring, your argument is invalid" argument.  If I shot you with a gun and I say "you don't have a gun, you don't know the disadvantages of having it.", would you just simply agree to my statement? 



The only part where I agree with you in all of the things you said is this
 

"also might I add, do SG's, WS's, Sinx bash really deserve/d nerfs? because OBVIOUSLY  the ones OWNING the pvp ladder with no competition should be the focus of NERFS (you have a ninja there with what? 300 kills? do you see any SG in the top 3?) 

that pvp ladder should give you an idea on what and what not to nerf because THEYRE the ones benefiting the MOST with this nerfs. LESS COMPETITION for them. MORE PVP TOKS. you KNOW im RIGHT."

[p3wp3w]

No one loves me T_T

[xPeasant]

the point here is be a sporty?  its not fair for the people who spend money this is a pay 2 win for crying out loud...