skyslasher27 Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 I know alot of players here will get mad on what I am about to suggest but this is ridiculous first thing.Gypsy/Clown have a TAROT skill which can do a pretty good debuffs to any players it even can dispell all your buffs even with GTB on. They Can use "Tarot Skill" using a Combat Knife. They can also do SlowGrace which is probably annoying debuff on War of Emperium. What I'm suggesting is to not let them wear any R.DevillingHat / L.PooPooHat / Combat Knife. or atleast reduce the effect of "Reduce Damage To Demi-Human" when wear by Clown/Gypsy. Back when i was a sniper We have this armor "Sniping Suit" which gives us Pro's and Cons. It gives a huge "Reduce Cast Delay" which makes sniper spam FAS really quick and it also gives LUK so it gives more damage to FAS. But this armor is only 1 Slotted and it doesnt apply to the effect of FKing Set. but it still been nerf down due to its OverPower. what im saying is Gypsy/Clown with Reduced Type Armors are OP. 2
Rayray Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 I thought the reducts regarding all this items got nerfed back then when stalker sb has the reducts, seems like I am a bit mistaken To further improve this suggestion, I suggest that we limit the maximum demi-human reducts a character can have, not just on clown. It works well on those classes simply because of tarot, which still gives them enough to kill people. So my suggestion is not ONLY on clowns/gypsies but to everyone, so that no one will use just reducts items and be done with it.
thePast Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 yeah, let's just nerf reducts and go all the way with berries/seeds and more hurtful damage......
Rayray Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 yeah, let's just nerf reducts and go all the way with berries/seeds and more hurtful damage...... Not to that extent erwin. I remember GMs saying that the reducts should not go to certain level, that's why they made the other items not stack.
Shadi Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 Highly disagree with this. The only reduction options that are left bring along high disadvantages. 1: Poopoo hat/devi hat leaves you with 3 headgear slots + able to be frozen 2: Combat knife allows clowns to carry a total of what ? 80 seeds? Without their enlarge weight limit they can't carry shit. They can't do any damage either. Simply wear gtb and a redux/tarot clown won't hurt you at all. 3: These items already do not stack with the best reduction stuff such as friggs shield. Yes reduction should be closely monitored but we shouldn't be removing ALL demi human reduction items. Going into a survivability build should still be an option. I remember GMs saying that the reducts should not go to certain leve They shouldn't go to a certain level. And they aren't going to that level. The current highest reduction is way lower than what the reduction was back then. Back then everything stacked. Now they don't. It's either or, not all together. 1
Rayray Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 They shouldn't go to a certain level. And they aren't going to that level. The current highest reduction is way lower than what the reduction was back then. Back then everything stacked. Now they don't. It's either or, not all together. I thought someone found another loophole. If that is the case, then I disagree with this suggestion. Thought it was the same case as stalkers back then.
Desamor Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 1: Poopoo hat/devi hat leaves you with 3 headgear slots + able to be frozen You can use scarf = bye bye frozen possibility. 2: Combat knife allows clowns to carry a total of what ? 80 seeds? Without their enlarge weight limit they can't carry shit. They can't do any damage either. Simply wear gtb and a redux/tarot clown won't hurt you at all. You just need to go VIT/STR and You're ready to be a reduction type. 3: These items already do not stack with the best reduction stuff such as friggs shield. Yes reduction should be closely monitored but we shouldn't be removing ALL demi human reduction items. Going into a survivability build should still be an option. You said it, with friggs, but there is more good shields beside friggs that it do stack, and I do agree with not removing the whole combo, sometimes You just need to go full reduction in some cases, for example a paladin or a support priest. I thought someone found another loophole. If that is the case, then I disagree with this suggestion. Thought it was the same case as stalkers back then. Yes, there is a loop-hole.
Roi Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 Having mixed feelings about this post, idk if it's a +1 or -1. >.<
Shadi Posted January 14, 2015 Report Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) You can use scarf = bye bye frozen possibility. = Goodbye more redux. You just need to go VIT/STR and You're ready to be a reduction type. = slow tarot + low success chance of tarot. You said it, with friggs, but there is more good shields beside friggs that it do stack, and I do agree with not removing the whole combo, sometimes You just need to go full reduction in some cases, for example a paladin or a support priest. Not all of them stack with king shield either. Edited January 14, 2015 by Shadi
Desamor Posted January 15, 2015 Report Posted January 15, 2015 Goodbye more redux. I forgot aswell, about Detale xC! (read below about the HP) slow tarot + low success chance of tarot. I thought the chance of tarot was depending only of the Lv. oO! also, You can use kiels or add some agi, You can sacrifice VIT since You have good reduction. Not all of them stack with king shield either. Depends, but, overall You can swap here and there and get enough reduction/HP... ---- But as You said and I agreed, the reduction builds should be monitored since theres always a way on cheating death.
Shadi Posted January 15, 2015 Report Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) I forgot aswell, about Detale xC! (read below about the HP) Detale does lower your max hp though, since you'll be swapping a tao out for it. So enemies might be doing lower damage but the target's hp is a lot lower as well I thought the chance of tarot was depending only of the Lv. oO! also, You can use kiels or add some agi, You can sacrifice VIT since You have good reduction. Sorry I worded that wrong, the succes chance stays the same. But the higher dex/aspd you have the faster you can cast the cards in succession. You also need 3 kiels, I believe attackspeed is needed for tarot but I'd have to test that. So you'll be able to be either frozen, or stoned or vulnerable to a lot of other things :P Also if you want to have max aspd on the reduction hats, you'll have to add an enormous load of agi , unless you're already in a dex build which would leave your survivability to being mediocre due to the lack of hp etc. Depends, but, overall You can swap here and there and get enough reduction/HP... Sure there's ways to find a balance in both HP and reductions. But with the current reductions in-game you will limit your own character severely if you choose to go full reductions. A simple gtb shield and fcp counters a clown that has full reduction gear completely. Since they won't be able to do any damage due to 1: low dex. 2: no gear that adds damage because they're using gear to add survivability. But as You said and I agreed, the reduction builds should be monitored since theres always a way on cheating death. Reductions will always be tricky. I just personally think the current rate of reductions is fine. I want reduction builds to be possible, but with limitations to the character's ability to function. Right now, it's exactly like that :). Edited January 15, 2015 by Shadi
thePast Posted January 15, 2015 Report Posted January 15, 2015 Yes, there is a loop-hole There is? Can you explain the loop-hole then? Fixing the loop-hole would be nicer than nerfing them
Ohki Posted January 15, 2015 Report Posted January 15, 2015 My thoughts pretty much reflect everything Shadi's said so far. I think the current system of redux gears is balanced pretty well, and I've personally tried all manner of redux builds with several classes, including gypsy/clown, professor and priest. It pretty much comes down to 3 modes: 1) Full redux (Combat Knife+Refined Deviling+Sacred Wing, etc.) -- mostly limited to support for large party fighting, still vulnerable to Stone Curse for the most part 2) The '3/5 Redux' build I call it (Maybe just a Sacred and Skull/Myth aura with vit build) -- allowing for switching of gears but with much less survivability than full redux -- still limited in fighting ability and requires more expensive gears, but the use of weapon cards make it a lot more dangerous than full redux 3) Full PvP capability
keamykey Posted January 31, 2015 Report Posted January 31, 2015 Why dont u suggesting to remove those hats :) And let me guess..u cant kill redux clown/gypsy thats why u suggesting this right..
Maiimaii Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 +1 to this redux clown/gypsy pretty OP Sniper,LK and some classes got nerf already , y not this 1 too? :)
