L2Aim Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 (edited) This topic has gone from a simple discussion to a flame fest. I am going to close it. Epic since you are one of the main supports of disabling buff bots; start a topic and make a poll as well as a close date. As stated, I'm helping my guildleader since he's lazy right now (sleeping), so I was like, I'll make it (less drama too). Anyway, to everyone, give us your real opinion, not that from your guildies and a good arguement why we should OR shouldn't allow buff bots. I will answer this later on (as the maker of a topic people will most of the time agree faster with his/her opinion or think about it more). This poll will close in 1 week (17 march at 03.00 am forum time). Enjoy voting and don't cause (too much) e-drama. Edited March 11, 2008 by Sensation Made the poll question clear.
Overlord Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 This topic has gone from a simple discussion to a flame fest. I am going to close it. Epic since you are one of the main supports of disabling buff bots; start a topic and make a poll as well as a close date. I don't think you fully understand my points on this issue. However, this method is good enough to end this discussion, minimizing any potential e-drama involved. Thanks L2Aim for making this topic, I wasn't sleeping. I had to do something. Lolo.
Icon Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 I voted. I just gotta say i probly play on one of the oldest pc's in the world and i can dual log and link/buff/fcp myself just fine in woe ... but i can see why people might want to use these ... it gets chaotic in woe and if ur the buffer in a decent sized guild u get yelled at and such AND your also trying to play ur woe'r at the same time ... /rice
Gilgamesh Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 I guess everyone likes a fair fight right? I have a better suggestion: Like, every buff should be canceled as we enter the PvP Room. No FCPs/Soul Link/Endow/etc but still I know that they can still open another account on the same PC and relocate their slaves inside the PvP room but still, I assure you, those slaves will get killed no matter where they hide. With that, I also suggest that anthell01 shouldn't be a PK area. Why? Because PvP Rooms are no longer used these days.
Hrist Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 I see no point in removing buff bots. Tell me, WHAT huge and devastating disadvantages does buff bots give to this server? Do they lag the server, do they eat up so much space, or do they kill people? What? I see nothing wrong with it. I find it convenient that buff bots are here to give us that added fun in pvp. What? They just stand there and buff us. Oh and about buff canceling in PvP, I find it inconvenient. Tactics are always tactics. Whoever overpowers the other wins. I never complained about anything regarding this ever since I set foot on forsakenRO. For me, buffing has always been a valuable tactic for everyone. We use it on WOE, on Leveling, so why not for normal PvP? Is it because not everyone has buff bots? Is is unfair for the other team to have buffs than the other? From what I see, its just plain ridiculous to even think about the Buff Canceler/Buff Bot removal ideas. Buff yourself even though it does a bit of help, FCP yourself when your opponent breaks your shit, and SL yourself for that added edge. At first I thought it was unfair, but I accpeted the fact that all of those are legal and doesn't harm the server in anyway. If its just for selfish reasons, then I say no. Its not as if the server would crash with these on. It might be convenient for you because of your own reasons, but what about the others? Don't you think you're being selfish? If its the kind of mentality that goes on around here, then why not get a buff bot yourself? Can't beat them? Join them. Simple as that. And you might take away anthell01, but I'll bring the fight elsewhere. I don't give two shits as long as I enjoy myself. After all, its what I'm here for. Its blast people away or get blasted yourself. Harsh words for the truth. Want me to explain in more detail? >_>;
Gilgamesh Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 I see no point in removing buff bots. Tell me, WHAT huge and devastating disadvantages does buff bots give to this server? Do they lag the server, do they eat up so much space, or do they kill people? What? I see nothing wrong with it. I find it convenient that buff bots are here to give us that added fun in pvp. What? They just stand there and buff us. Bots? Bots of any kind shouldn't be legal. I have one thing for you: Get more RO experience and you'll know what I'm saying. Oh and about buff canceling in PvP, I find it inconvenient. Tactics are always tactics. Whoever overpowers the other wins. I never complained about anything regarding this ever since I set foot on forsakenRO. For me, buffing has always been a valuable tactic for everyone. We use it on WOE, on Leveling, so why not for normal PvP? Is it because not everyone has buff bots? Is is unfair for the other team to have buffs than the other? From what I see, its just plain ridiculous to even think about the Buff Canceler/Buff Bot removal ideas. Buff yourself even though it does a bit of help, FCP yourself when your opponent breaks your shit, and SL yourself for that added edge. At first I thought it was unfair, but I accpeted the fact that all of those are legal and doesn't harm the server in anyway. If its just for selfish reasons, then I say no. Its not as if the server would crash with these on. It might be convenient for you because of your own reasons, but what about the others? Don't you think you're being selfish? If its the kind of mentality that goes on around here, then why not get a buff bot yourself? Can't beat them? Join them. Simple as that. Can't beat them? Maybe you can't but I can. Join them? I don't wanna be like them who cannot do shit without pre-buffing. You say pre-buffing is tactics? I say it's a tactic but it's a loser's tactic. Don't even tell me that my suggestion is selfish. I'm doing this for the sake of a balanced gameplay which is good for everyone. Want me to explain in more detail? >_>; No.
Hrist Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 Its that kind of mentality that makes great servers fall. You want it all for your own convenience and not for the sake of others. Why, my opinion isn't even needed? Of course I have my freedom of speech. I can use it whenever I want to because its my own legal right. I never told anyone of you to shut it right? If you find yourself worthy of expressing your thoughts, then go ahead. I won't stop you. Its your own legal right. Same goes for buffing and buff bots. Its legal and... Its our right. A loser's tactics? Hah what are you, a God? You're not the boss of me here. I'll do what I want even if it makes me buff myself tenfold just to say it to your face. There isn't even a tactic guideline that was made. Complain all you want but thats the hard truth baby. Its nothing illegal and you feel imbalanced because you're the one getting stepped down. But of course, the one enjoying it the most is the one stepping down on you. Touche~
Jelzin Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 Hrist makes a good point. I say keep them allowed. (Even though i dont use one. <_>)
Gilgamesh Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 Its that kind of mentality that makes great servers fall. You want it all for your own convenience and not for the sake of others. Why, my opinion isn't even needed? Of course I have my freedom of speech. I can use it whenever I want to because its my own legal right. I never told anyone of you to shut it right? If you find yourself worthy of expressing your thoughts, then go ahead. I won't stop you. Its your own legal right. Same goes for buffing and buff bots. So you say this server is really great? It has less than 200players. Yes it's quite good compared to the other server but can't we consider making a few changes to make it better? And what do I want for my own convenience? Sir, please tell me how did my suggestion become a selfish one? A loser's tactics? Hah what are you, a God? You're not the boss of me here. I'll do what I want even if it makes me buff myself tenfold just to say it to your face. There isn't even a tactic guideline that was made. Complain all you want but thats the hard truth baby. Its nothing illegal and you feel imbalanced because you're the one getting stepped down. But of course, the one enjoying it the most is the one stepping down on you. You're saying too much shit about this. You bitch about your right? Did I say you don't have a right to bitch about anything? You're being ignorant. It's legal and... Who said it's legal? Are you a GM to say that? It's our right. You're abusing your rights. I didn't even tell you that you don't have a right to say something about anything. Why are you complaining about your rights my dear?
Hrist Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 Its clearly written all over your face. Predictable, very predictable. I'll return the question back to you then. "Good sir, why is buffing before PvP so inconvenient for you?" If you're unable to answer that properly, then I'll return the favor to you tenfold just to prove my point. If you think its for the greater good of the server, then what is your main reason for cancelling our precious buffs? Is it because.. uhh... YOU got PWNT? Oh my. That is a serious issue. Well look at it this way my good sir, getting pwnt is normal too and our LEGAL right. I mean, if nobody gets pwnt, then it wouldn't be so fun isn't it? I got pwnt more than I could count yesterday, but ITS MY right to get pwnt by good players such as yourself right? Its also your right to pwn such inexperienced players like me as well right? So whats your point? If I buff myself, do I get better? Ever heard of the old saying "The one that prepares first beats the hardworking one?" Want me to explain it to you? Since when did preparing in advance became a crime? Does it make me better with all that buffs? I'll tell you honestly now. EVEN if I buff myself 20 times, I cant ever beat good players. Why? Because they are already skilled as they are. Now if buffing concerns you that much, then go ahead and play on a server that has no buffing skills at all. Don't even get me started MY GOOD SIR. I can debate with you for hours if you got the brains for it.
Gilgamesh Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 Its clearly written all over your face. Predictable, very predictable. I'll return the question back to you then. "Good sir, why is buffing before PvP so inconvenient for you?" If you're unable to answer that properly, then I'll return the favor to you tenfold just to prove my point. If you think its for the greater good of the server, then what is your main reason for canceling our precious buffs? Is it because.. uhh... Balance in RO = a fair gameplay. So now, tell me is it fair if I fight your Paladin using my Whitesmith who happened to have Kaizel/Kaite/Soul Link/Assumptio/WS Buffs/etc and then you die even with your reflect damages? YOU got PWNT? Oh my. That is a serious issue. Well look at it this way my good sir, getting pwnt is normal too and our LEGAL right. I mean, if nobody gets pwnt, then it wouldn't be so fun isn't it? I got pwnt more than I could count yesterday, but ITS MY right to get pwnt by good players such as yourself right? Its also your right to pwn such inexperienced players like me as well right? So whats your point? If I buff myself, do I get better? Ever heard of the old saying "The one that prepares first beats the hardworking one?" Want me to explain it to you? Since when did preparing in advance became a crime? Does it make me better with all that buffs? I'll tell you honestly now. EVEN if I buff myself 20 times, I cant ever beat good players. Why? Because they are already skilled as they are. Now if buffing concerns you that much, then go ahead and play on a server that has no buffing skills at all. Don't even get me started MY GOOD SIR. I'm not saying that getting killed is a serious issue. You're bringing too much unwanted commotion in this thread. You're not getting my point. B)
Hrist Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 Oh so you did fail to answer my question. Seriously good sir, your reply took a while. Now time for my counterattack! Yes, I may not be even a GM, but buffing is illegal? So its illegal to buff now? Oh my what a statement sir! I hope you're ready to back it up after this. Now getting back on point, have you ever seen an RPG that doesn't buff themselves? Unless you're playing the good old-fashioned ping-pong, then buffing shouldn't be a new thing for you. We buff to get bonuses that our normal character doesn't have. Even super mario uses a mushroom /heh. Now tell me, do you know of an rpg that doesn't have buffs? Every class has buffs available for their liking. Enchant poison, Enchant Deadly poison, FCP, Guard, Defender, Over Thrust, Cart Boost, you name it. Those are character's normal buffs. Now for example, I find it very inconvenient because my own buffs weren't enough, so I get even more buffs. Is that so hard to comprehend? Does it cause so much turmoil that the GMs just have to suspend pre-buffing? What age are we in, Chivalry? Do you win with honor in this game? NO, we win because WE UTILIZE EVERY OPTION AVAILABLE TO TURN THE TIDES TO OUR FAVOR. Don't speak to me about legality because I know that I play these characters because of these buffs. It helps me DO "shit" because it is my right to do shit. Call me a noob all you want sir, but the buffs are here to stay. All you do is quote, but you fail to explain your point. If you do not want to be humiliated even more, I suggest you concede. I play for those buffs, and I support this server because of those buffs. If you find buffing so inconvenient, then I'll say it one more time. Find another server where they suspended almost everything because one or two people were complaining about something. It might not be related with this issue, but trust me, all big things came from smaller issues. Let them use SL buffs all they want because its their legal right. Don't be such a dictator and accept the fact that all the good things are free for all. Why not use it for yourself , oh-so-honorable one? You might find it pleasing as well. As for me, the buffs stays. If you can't defend against such a simple idea as mine, then please give up while I'm in the forgiving mood. Just so you know, I won't mind if you kill my Paladin with your awesome WS with complete buffs because ... ....I respect your desire to win. Buffed up? No problem. You know the old saying in RO, "Can't beat 'em? Switch to a new character and try again" Now, if you spam hacks on me... THEN THAT'S IMBALANCED GAMEPLAY. Seriously sir, try harder. All you do is talk about balance, when you yourself are unable to understand that there are several options available for everyone to win, whether is good gears or excellent buffs, AS LONG AS ITS AVAILABLE in game. If you felt that the balance is shifting to their advantage, use your options to gain back your losses. But all I can see is you complaining as your last available option. Srsly, this is a GAME. Don't limit yourself with honorable ideas and just play. Play with every option present and not complain about removing the options that might prove useful even to yourself.
Captain Planet Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 Lol this is an enjoyable little row! Keep going gentlemen/...gentlewomen ? I think hrist has the upper hand at this point /ok
» Pat Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 Voted Yes. Reason? -Dispell. I guess everyone likes a fair fight right? I have a better suggestion: Like, every buff should be canceled as we enter the PvP Room. No FCPs/Soul Link/Endow/etc but still I know that they can still open another account on the same PC and relocate their slaves inside the PvP room but still, I assure you, those slaves will get killed no matter where they hide. With that, I also suggest that anthell01 shouldn't be a PK area. Why? Because PvP Rooms are no longer used these days. Maybe for a reason?
Gilgamesh Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 Oh it took me awhile to reply because I had to do something significant for the server. Anyway, I don't care who gets the upper hand. I said buffing is illegal? No. I said buff bot should be illegal. All I do is talk about balance, you're right about that one. Isn't that the thing we all care for in a game? Lol. Fine, keep trying to prove to me that there is nothing wrong with pre-buffing. But I tell you, getting killed by a fully buffed person is not a thing to be proud of. There is no honor in it. I'll continue with this rant as soon as I get done with what I am doing in the game right now.
Hrist Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 Oh it took me awhile to reply because I had to do something significant for the server. Anyway, I don't care who gets the upper hand. I said buffing is illegal? No. I said buff bot should be illegal. All I do is talk about balance, you're right about that one. Isn't that the thing we all care for in a game? Lol. Fine, keep trying to prove to me that there is nothing wrong with pre-buffing. But I tell you, getting killed by a fully buffed person is not a thing to be proud of. There is no honor in it. I'll continue with this rant as soon as I get done with what I am doing in the game right now. ...and you're saying your ideas were not selfish? Hah HONOR! You make me roll on the floor laughing! I never expected such a lame word to EVER pop out in this refined argument of ours. Sire, there is no honor in this game, only death to those who cannot adapt to the harsh gameplay of Ragnarok Online. Despair those who cannot win against the well-trained ones who are already adept to the playing grounds that they carved with their own legacies. Getting killed is what started this arguement, and getting killed is what will end it as well. Why I say you're selfish? Because you refuse to accept the fact that buff bots are convenient for the greater good. It does not cause imbalance, it does not cause great destruction to the system, only convenience to those who need the aid of extra protection. Its not some hacked game play, its just tactics. Pre-buffing, fortifying, planning, and winning. That is what makes up each and every one of us. The desire to win over the other is what makes us utilize every option available, just to prevent our own alter-egos from being destroyed. Its self-preservation in game, not honor preservation. Once your HP goes down to 0, all your hopes of taking your opponent down goes to hell as well. So what do you do? Switch to a new character and see if you can beat him, then he does the same as well. But at some instances, they come out with an unexpected surprise... BUFFS. Then they trample your face all over the solid grounds of anthell like an ant getting hit by 90k Sacrifice. With that added strength, they made winning possible. Now are you telling me its all wrong when you yourself FCP yourself when you find your weapons and armors getting shattered by WS, and your shields getting snatched away by gay strip. Its natural for us to feel hatred towards those people who trample with our egos, thats why we prevent it by trying our hardest to preserve ourselves. We utilize buff-bots because its tiring opening up another client just to buff yourself. It was never a crime to begin with. It is an option that is comparable to the fast-paced pitstops in NASCAR. Now if you find this too long to read, or your comprehension is just too low, I suggest you give up for your own sake. I will not lose to whatever kind of "greater good" you're trying to bring upon yourselves. Buff bots are here to stay. Now in all honesty, TELL ME WHATS WRONG WITH IT! Too long, didn't read? /heh
Clay Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 Balance in RO = a fair gameplay. So now, tell me is it fair if I fight your Paladin using my Whitesmith who happened to have Kaizel/Kaite/Soul Link/Assumptio/WS Buffs/etc and then you die even with your reflect damages? I'm not saying that getting killed is a serious issue. You're bringing too much unwanted commotion in this thread. You're not getting my point. B) Can I just point out that CT does NOT reflect? Not taking any sides here but alot of MMOs like RO is a complicated game of rock paper scissors. Some classes just beat others fair and square because it's how they're designed. If you're talking about balance then I think we should focus more on bringing other under used classes up so that we don't have dominant classes (usually sins and champs) that don't have that many counters take over the server. Buffs as annoying as they seem do give an edge, but you can also do the same. And guess what, if you manage to beat them without buffs while they're fully decked out. More power to you, you just owned that person pretty goddamn hard. PS: I voted no o_o
L2Aim Posted March 10, 2008 Author Report Posted March 10, 2008 Like I said. e-drama +1 Will soon add my opinion too, but I like the discussion which is going on now.
Versace Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 Voted Yes. Keep the buff bots, shut up about the stupid drama. I'll repeat myself again when I said... "IT WAS OKAY FOR US TO USE BUFF BOTS WHEN TICK WAS IN OUR GUILD, AND NOW THAT HE LEFT AND USES IT FOR HIS OWN GUILD IT'S NOT." Keep the buff bots, you guys have the ability to use it as well... then do so.. i'm sure Tick will be more then happy enough to supply you with the client.
Hrist Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 So what's the point of arguing then? How harmful can buff bots be to society? I'd like to get a straight answer somehow on why people are so obsessed with having buff bots removed.
L2Aim Posted March 10, 2008 Author Report Posted March 10, 2008 As stated before, I will reply soon. It's just I prepare my things well without the help of other things. Thinking about this should give you a hint about what I will vote too. I can assure all of you, that I will have a solid arguement, or better said, solid arguements to make my point clear. Anyway, this is just day 1 of 7, a lot more time to rant/debate/discuss about this. Keep up the funny ranting, I love this drama <3
Hrist Posted March 10, 2008 Report Posted March 10, 2008 Funny ranting huh? I get your idea. But I'm not going to put myself to where my answers are considered so lowly as plain drama. If you think my replies were just jokes, then you've misjudged me greatly.
