Lord Knight.

[Hypnosis]

I don't know why I didn't add this on before, but honestly, why in the world does Lord knight have Parry with a shield that does so much to help them, I didn't realize it until recently but Parry works a majority of the time and makes it very hard to beat them, And on top of that, they have massive damage and HP, Please look at this!! I'm not bitching or moaning but seriously, They have so much already, it's ridiculous.

1.A Stupid stun-lock.

2.Good HP.

3.Good Dmg.

4.Knockback that hits not once but 2 or 3 times? not sure.

5.Parry which is total bullshit with a shield.

I mean, look at SinX, Yeah they have to put their heads on the line for damage sometimes, but they still manage to win.

Ionno if I'm getting across to anyone, Y'all let me know whatcha think.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Hypnosis

[Rayray]

I honestly was astounded by that the moment I got back nearly a year ago. I dunno why they let that happen actually.

[Best Champ NA]

Parry is pretty overpowered with a shield, yeah. It blocks attacks most of the time which is pretty lame. Should only be allowed to use with a 2H Weapon only. Parry+Shield is just too overpowered.

[zergling]

I made a post about this a while ago and got flamed to hell about it, but yea the parry+shield is retarted and should be removed.

[Hypnosis]

Thank you. At least some of you guys know what I mean. I mean I didn't notice until recently because I've been fighting a lot of Lord Knights lately and a majority of the time, they're winning cause of the sword, shield, & parry. I'm not one of those types of people to try and mold the game around myself or anything like that, But I just want balance with that class, I mean yes, they are Offensive, and should deal high damage, but the whole thing with the shield & being able to tank large amounts of damage was usually left to the Paladin, in my opinion of course.

[Rayray]

Originally, the Parry skill was given to LK due to the lack of the shield using 2 handed weapons. So I actually found it weird that they have that weapon, skill and use of shield, on top of the high HP too. Although, I see a lot of rage against it(much like the rage on nerfing the ninjas)

[Bishop]

When I first saw the effect I was very surprised as well. Though it's been in for a while now and I've never really had trouble with an sword-using LK yet. Yes it is a bit OP combining it with a shield and their massive HP. However without it sword lord knights would be quite useless because they can be kited extremely easy. I personally find spear LKs a lot more OP than sword LKs at this current time.

Either way, I could agree with a change, but not with completely removing it. The parry skill is what makes the weapon usable. Without it sword LK's would be doomed without a decent way to get close to the target. (Charge attack works for spear users because their spiral pierce can hit from the charge attack range. However BB has a smaller range than Spiral and charge attack will keep the target out of BB range unless the LK walks closer, this makes it hard for the LK to get in range for BB. Aside from that BB does decent damage, but not high enough to kill a good pvper without cornering him/her or catching someone completely off-guard.

[zergling]

The thing is though a geared lord knight can wear GTB with the sword and unless they are fighting a champ, they can tank whatever they get hit by, just because of the parry. If it was to be removed the sword still has increased damage with bowling bash so it will still be better than the spear for that purpose. The class has a shit ton of HP, on top of the DPS they can deal while wearing a shield, and with parry, the parry makes it imbalanced.

[Hypnosis]

Yeah it does feel imbalanced, but I wasn't suggesting a total removal, Maybe a revision on the percent of success. I think that they need to be looked at under a magnifying glass because they do have high damage, and do use two weapons. Plus they have the hp so it makes it a bit hard to get them. Sure you could stick out of range but if you get into a corner for even a second with them usually you can't defend yourself, just try and run away and that's mostly cause of the parry.

[Rayray]

The problem is that LKs can switch from being a Spear LK and a Parry LK by switching weapons. That's how easy it was, and overall that's what makes it really OP. LK can hit you with Spiral and stunlock you to death, and can just switch to the sword when getting ganged/cornered or when he needs BB.

[zergling]

Yea, and the sword is OP just for the parry. They shouldn't be able to have that much HP, on top of damage with shield AND parry. If anything force the sword to have an HP reduction, that way they can choose to have either parry+shield with an HP decrease or spear+shield and no HP decrease.

[Rayray]

^ I think this sounds great, kinda like how Sinx cant wear two donation blades at the same time.

[Hypnosis]

Yeah if you lower their hp with parry it will make a big difference and you won't have to fuck with their parry at all.

-Edit

Sorry I said "with parry" I meant to say if it lowered HP with the blade.

Edited July 24, 2013 by Hypnosis

[zergling]

Yay, people actually agree with me for once. In any case some GM interaction?

[Hypnosis]

Hope so.

[Bishop]

I don't think I can agree with that really. One of the only reasons of wearing the sword atm is to gain survivability. Why would you wear an item that has less damage, less range and less stunlock than your spear other than improving your survivability. What's the use of having parry if your hp is nerfed at the same time and you still don't gain survivability by it? I'm not sure what numbers you had in mind for the HP reduction but I very highly doubt this would be the way to change it.

Keep in mind that dispel removes the LK's buffs including parry. If you force the LK to gtb you can kill them quite easy and fast even with the parry on.

[zergling]

Bull Shit. LK can survive damn near anything with the sword on. I fight LK that use the sword WITH a GTB on and can tank asura. How the hell is a class supposed to compete with that if they are tanking asura strike with a damn GTB on. You can't outdamage an LK using parry if you're not using a 1 hit kill skill. For instance what about a clown, they can use tarot, ohh but the LK will throw on a GTB with parry and will only get hit by maybe 1-2 out of a spam of at most 6, even if the clown hits for 10k a hit there's not enough damage to outdamage the LK's HP. You're looking at it with the idea of "LK with a GTB on can't tank a full asura, or can't tank a fully geared sniper." Except that we don't have a server full of overgeared players. We have players that have semi-decent gear that can't 1 shot everything on a champion. The parry skill was NEVER made to be used with a 1 handed weapon with a shield, you have simply adjusted it because of the LK survival. With a decrease in the LK max HP with the sword you can leave parry alone(giving them 80% block chance) and have a shield on top of it. So a fully geared LK will still have the survival as always and they won't be tanking asura strike with a damn GTB on.

[Bishop]

This all depends on the HP reduction you had in mind. I haven't seen an LK outtank a decent champion while the LK is using gtb. As for your example. A good clown would use tarot until the light pink card (this is dispel and goes through gtb) after that his entire AV row would hit the LK. If the LK is using gtb, there's a very small chance that the LK would survive a full AV row.

I am indeed comparing the fully geared LK with a fully geared champion/clown. You can not base balance on one fully geared class and an undergeared other class that he's been fighting. True the parry skill wasn't intended to be used with a 1 handed weapon, the question remains if you add the HP reduction to the sword, would the parry still be increasing survivability OR does the parry block less of the damage than the HP that's removed by equipping the weapon and thus not improve survivability at all and thus trading your spear for less range, less damage and less stunlock.

Everything depends on the number you have in mind of HP to reduce when equipping the sword to know if it's still worth it to use it.

[Hypnosis]

So if not hp, Then possibly the chance of success?

I hope we can compromise, because that class is highly imbalanced.

Parry functions as a shield as it is.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Hypnosis

[Eefmu]

I would like to give some input from my prior RO experience, but I am a bit confused... Can all LK on this server just use a one-handed sword with parry? or is there a shield which allows lk to use parry with one-handed weapon. Because if LK can just wear Friggs with usakoring and parry half of everything away that hardly seems fair with their crazy HP in addition to the fact that they can already hold lots of seeds. Could someone explain how this works?

[Hypnosis]

I would like to give some input from my prior RO experience, but I am a bit confused... Can all LK on this server just use a one-handed sword with parry? or is there a shield which allows lk to use parry with one-handed weapon. Because if LK can just wear Friggs with usakoring and parry half of everything away that hardly seems fair with their crazy HP in addition to the fact that they can already hold lots of seeds. Could someone explain how this works?

That was my point exactly. It is crazy and to be honest, I think it's inexplicable. The class would be far from useless, for one, parry blocks 80% of the time, on top of that, they have really good HP, and they have some of the Highest DPS, if I'm not mistaken. Plus the seeds. It isn't fair.

[kayl21]

-1

[Hypnosis]

-1

Would you care to elaborate, or are you just posting that because you play Lord Knight?

[benchiiie]

Maybe the problem would've resolved by creating or changing the LK weap into 2-handed(meaning, can't wear shield atm he uses it).

since i found this stuff in RMS XD

Parrying (Skill ID# 356, iRO Name: Parry)

Type Active Max Lv 10 SP Cost 50 Target Self Requirements Two-Handed Sword Mastery Lv 10, Provoke Lv 5, Two-Hand Quicken Lv 3 Stay Duration Min-Max Lv: 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 / 40 / 45 / 50 / 55 / 60 sec Req. Weapon Class Two-handed Sword Effect You automatically block attacks with a success chance of (5*SkillLV)%. This allows you to Auto Guard melee and ranged attacks with your two-handed sword.
This Skill also enables you to parry the following skills: Bash, Bowling Bash, Pierce, Spiral Pierce, Brandish Spear, Spear Boomerang, Shield Boomerang, Grand Cross, Asura Strike, Soul Breaker, Double Strafing, Arrow Shower and Investigate.
When you block you cannot attack (but unlike Auto Guard, there is no delay). Use this when you get mobbed. Two Hand sword needed Other Notes Level Description 1 Block Chance 5%, 15 Sec 2 Block Chance 10%, 20 Sec 3 Block Chance 15%, 25 Sec 4 Block Chance 20%, 30 Sec 5 Block Chance 25%, 35 Sec 6 Block Chance 30%, 40 Sec 7 Block Chance 35%, 45 Sec 8 Block Chance 40%, 50 Sec 9 Block Chance 45%, 55 Sec 10 Block Chance 50%, 60 Sec

Haha Thanks alot for RMS for giving me the info XD

Edited July 29, 2013 by benchiiie

[Rayray]

Bishop already pointed it out that making the weapon 2 handed or severely lowering the hp of the LK that uses it makes the weapon null, when it was supposed to be for survival. we have to think of a better way to make it not OP