Market

[91Dazz_]

Hi guys,

As you may notice the market in Fro is pretty imbalance and shit right now. I believe there needs to be a change in the system to regulate and set in place the market.

One of the things to take note about the market is the prices on Legendary items.

People work hard for these items. Many hours and effort have been spent to make legendary items yet people get paid so poorly for the hardwork, prices ranging from 20-30 tokens at most. This is ridiculous.

My suggestion here today, is to make quest items more powerful, valuable and appreciated than those items donated for. Just like the quest and friggs quest.

By doing this it will:

1. Increase popularity in Legendary Items

2. Encourages more determined and hardworking players.

3. Definitely make people appreciate their items more

4. In the long run, it will drive and sustain the number of players in fro (this is because if stuff are easily donated, people would be less appreciative and would find it easier to let go off the server than stay on)

5. For those lazy bums that do not want to be top and strong players, they could simply make a donation to the server for items. I suppose the harder the quest are, the more likely they are to donate. So it does not put a huge impact on the financial side of keeping the server running.

there may be more other reasons which are not stated here. but anyway What do you guys think?

[masterneil]

Totally -1

I'm also a farmer but the prices of legendary weps I'd good enuf

Friggs is a long time quest , it got expensive price

And then ring u can do ir more or less a MONTH ofc it also god a crazy price

And making the quest as strong as donations ones? People will only quest

No one will donate again, and where will the server got money?

[91Dazz_]

U must be quite new. Did u know legendary weapons used to be 100++ tokens?

What I am trying to put forth is, A hard but not so hard quest for Items. And also we can have super godly items quest which will be harder and longer ofcourse.

Currency is in Tokens to buy stuff. Farmers will farm, Buyers if they wana buy stuff, donate for tokens andbuy these quest godly items.

Some people are lazy at times to farm. I know this cause I myself sometimes feel very lazy and I had times where I just look for farmers to get items for me and how do iI pay them? Using tokens. So tokens can be donated online

Edited March 10, 2013 by 91Dazz_

[neorics]

meh, even if you did that, the price would only be high on the first month or so and then it would also go down... there's nothing you can do about it, it's how markets work.... supply and demand rule!

[91Dazz_]

You need to have something to promote change in the market to enhance and sustain the economy. You can't just let it be and leave the economy to die. It is as if youre saying, when there is a credit crunch, the banks should still continue to lend out money to the society at the same rate. Answer is no. In circumstances where credit crunch happens, the banks and creditors will be wary of lending out money. Therefore they need to regulate their finances.

Edited March 10, 2013 by 91Dazz_

[Veracity]

I'm really confused. What are you suggesting? Giving quest items the same stats as donation items or making them better than donation items?

What is an example of a "hard but not so hard quest"?

The reason why legendary weapons/items sold for so much in the beginning was because no one had them and everyone wanted them. There was high demand with little supply. Now most people have them already, and there are lots of them out there, so of course the price is going to drop. Not sure how your example applies to RO or this situation.

[91Dazz_]

Sorry I wasnt being entirely clear.

I would like to firstly elaborate in your first question.

1. " Giving quest items the same stats as donation items or making them better than donation items?

Making them better than the current donation items, and drive into this market. One of the benefits to this is making people more engaged in the game rather than promote a mindset of "ah im a donator i can be ebtter than eveyrone in no time, just donate" with this mindset, it encourages people to flood the market with donation item. Tokens are also donation. What about non donators? What will happen to the farmers? How are they gonna get tokens? to purchase items like this and be better in the game if they farm so hard for Legendary items, and they get paid so little. There is no balance. So u need a shift in the market. Im not saying the current market idea is bad. It is good. Just need a shift once in awhile.

2. hard but not so hard quest

harder than the current quest, but not as hard as friggs and ring quest

3. About my bank example.

What brought me to that example is, that Meorics talking about supply and demand rule. Which is correct. BUT it seems that he was inferring not to do anything about the market and let it be. Hence, my example. If there was an economic crisis, a credit crunch(although in these crisis there still are demands for loans), a bank would be wary on lending their money or opening their market to give out loans. If they relied solely on the mindset of supply and demand rule, and continued to give out loans, did nothing and made completely no awareness or care for the crisis, the market will be in deep shit wouldnt it and the market would inf it a struggle to regulate itself. Therefore, the bank example is merely just to say to Meoric that, u cant jsut dont do anything about the market and let it be itself. It will die down after a longer run. Think bout those that dont donate, how are u going to keep them in the game if they cant sustain themselves in the game. They will be making more legendary items. but the mroe they make, the less the item cost. now slowly dropping to 25. the longer it takes, maybe drop to 15 sooner or later. Taking in consideration the quest is quite stressful to do and with this, they may ditch the server and go elsewhere. Bear in mind, you are targeting young teenagers and maybe some older above 20. but mostly teenagers that do not work, have no legal capacity to make a donation, and with the example i just said, how are u gonna keep them in the server if this goes on. So the server cant really sustain and keep those players active that do not donate. You need to promote new stuff, shift the market a little here and there. Create a new environment.

Or wait, are u trying to imply that im taking the server too seriously lol. I probs am but I just love Fro and dont want it to die down and see it shit like this. Hence my suggestion. I cant be entirely wrong in this

Edited March 10, 2013 by 91Dazz_

[Veracity]

Oh no, I wasn't implying you were taking it too seriously at all! Sorry if it came off that way, I was just wondering what you meant by your example, but you explained everything very well. Thank you for your responses! Now that I understand what you're suggesting, here are my thoughts...

I think it would have dire consequences if we made quest items better than donation items. What about all of those many, many items already out in circulation? They would become virtually worthless, and people have invested money in them. We can't help non-donators while completely destroying the value of all donation items - honestly, that wouldn't help anyone and would likely not only destroy the economy completely, but have horrible consequences for the server. Every item that is out there now would become worthless.

I think you and some others may believe that we added the legendary quests etc. as a means for newbies to obtain tokens. To be honest, the purpose is the opposite - it's to eliminate new players and/or non-donators' need of tokens to get geared. By making items at least 80% as good as donation items (really, most of them are only a few stat points less), you no longer require tokens to get donation items. You can vote for the Forsaken King quest and get legendary counter parts for the rest. We are working on adding legendary versions for all of the major donation items, and eliminating the need for them among players who are new or cannot donate.

The legendary quests are already wayyyyy easier than the Elite quest was, and they give better rewards. So if people think the quest is too hard, they'd probably be better off on super high rate servers where you can get everything in a day or so. It's impossible for us to appeal to everyone, unfortunately. I do think you have a point on the economy as a whole, but there is really very little we can do for it. Prices fluctuate, but if we tried to regulate prices, it would hurt more than it would help. The best solution for legendary items becoming less expensive I suppose would be to continue adding new legendary quests then.

[91Dazz_]

I am not saying they should be completey destroyed. To solve that problem of having these donation items being virtually worthless, What is circulating, will still continue to circulate. They will still worth money. Probably more by taking it off donations and let it circulate. Thus making the items limited in the server. So u cant really make it worthless by taking it off donations. I can see your point that it will be virtually worthless. However, whilst in run of the new market shift, what the server could do is to put an npc somewhere in fcity that does an autotrade for the donated items in exchange for the questable godly items which are better than the new batch of donated items. For instance, Now we have Thor Hammer. Donation item, cost 900-1.2k tokens in server, new shift where we have a godly quest item as powerful as thor hammer or better than thors hammer that may cost more or same than the Thors Hammer at the begining of the market(due to low supply), Players have a choice to keep their items limited edition, or swap it for those new quest godly items and still get their monies worth.

Sides, Im not saying it is a means for newbies to get tokens, It is one of the means of newbies getting tokens.

Yea u have a point when u say, adding more legendary quest. But what about legendary quests for non donators to be as competent as those who donate. Wheres the just in that? For all the doantors to be better than those who dont donate. I personally am a donator myself, and I do not think it is very fair to those who dont, and all my time in the server is seeing dedicated people to work hard and get whats their worth leave the server after a little while. Is the Fro team insensitive to this matter? To not promote a level playing field? To not give those that truly deserve what their worth?

Edited March 10, 2013 by 91Dazz_

[masterneil]

If ur saying the donators will be much stronger/godly than the farmers, then ur wrong!

I never donate but I can be pretty strong, without belts,friggs,fparts,emps,fhelm,donate ones?

I only use legendary belts,wep,knight set , piamette ear, scarf and lzod in my sniper And a mall arrow

I can still own the donators , its not about the donators or farmers, if u know a good strategy on tat job

That means u can be stronger that donate or farmer thinks don't matter..

For the price u can do 1 lwep for 2 hours, 2 hour=30 token its alrrady a high reward lol!!

And the prices now is already very increase lol! Tg from 10 now become 30,tao from 35-40 now 60-65

Kiel from 40-50 now was 70-80, its already a big.Increase lol, and like sniper sb VS lbow .u can do 13' with sb and

11k with lbow , its awesome lol, quest item can almost make same dmg with donate ones? Its. AWESOME

Edited March 10, 2013 by masterneil

[91Dazz_]

Masterneil, Appreciate your reply and I agree with you. It is true some non donators own donators. I experienced being owned as a donator by a non-donator also experienced owning a donator whilst using non-donator gear. Feeling is great. However we are moving a little off topic here. Reason for my suggestion was about regulating and boosting the market. Shifting the market to a different era. If you say is easy, andmany people keep making it in 1 - 2 hours, there will be more supply of these goods. Who will buy them? Do you think it will stay at 30 tokens constantly from now on? I suppose like what Veracity said, make more quest item cause my suggestion is quite a tough one. However it entails a good mindset and game play for players.

Edited March 10, 2013 by 91Dazz_

[ChainBreak]

Maybe new weapons could be introduced after the storyline quests are done.

Then like ''The Sign Quest'' on original RO you could make it so that people have to complete all the storyline quests in order to get to the new weapons. If the current quest for Frigg's is already hard and people need to complete like 4~5 of these quests to get the desired items, higher stats than the current strongest weapons would be justified.

As far as I can remember the level 4 weapons were traded at very high prices back in the days only because they were very hard to get.

Edited March 10, 2013 by ChainBreak

[Veracity]

ChainBreak, I think that's a good suggestion. We are already planning on all new storyline updates to require you to complete the one before in order to participate. :) However, I do not think it would be the best idea to also do this for new legendary quests. This is because legendary quests are intended for newbies, while the storyline quest is endgame content that not a lot of newbies have done. So it would be harmful to newbies and benefit the already richer players, which I am not in favor of... though it isn't a bad idea, it just wouldn't work as intended in this situation. We could perhaps require you to have done certain other legendary quests or something, though... not sure how that would work out either.

Also I think Masterniel's point was addressing how you are saying "But what about legendary quests for non donators to be as competent as those who donate. Wheres the just in that? For all the donators to be better than those who dont donate.". Non-donators who do the legendary quests and forsaken Knight quest are already on par with donators. These items are only a few stats less than the donations. This is the only way to have it in order for the economy not to crash and donation items to be made worthless. (Unless of course the questable items that are better than donations require donation items to make, in the case of the 'donation storyline items'...but this completely defeats the purpose of what you are suggesting.)

Is the Fro team insensitive to this matter? To not promote a level playing field? To not give those that truly deserve what their worth?

We aren't insensitive, which is why we added all of the new knight and legendary equipment to address the huge disparity between donators and non-donators/newbies. We are infinitely better in terms of balance between donations and non-donations than we ever have been in the 5 years this server has opened, and I am sure it's much better than a vast majority, if not every other, RO server out there. What you are suggesting would have the opposite effect and crash the economy and cause unimaginable damage to the server, to put it bluntly. Maybe I don't fully understand what you're suggesting, but that is my current impression.

[91Dazz_]

Its just a suggestion which I have put forth reasoning and certain factors that my benefit or distraught the server. If it is true what you just said that "What you are suggesting would have the opposite effect and crash the economy and cause unimaginable damage to the server, to put it bluntly" please provide your argument with a valid reason and factors why it should not work and the reasons that the suggestion will CRASH the economy, and CAUSE unimaginable damage.

Edited March 10, 2013 by 91Dazz_

[Veracity]

I already explained why in my previous posts, please take the time to re-read them if you don't understand still. :)

[91Dazz_]

I think the one that needs to re-read is you. cause I have already replied and provide a way to how you are able to counter the fact on making donations virtually worthless. so yea lol

[Veracity]

You haven't provided a convincing argument yet to illustrate how your suggestion would not cause what I said. I know you responded, but it isn't very clear and from what I understand, I don't believe it would work.

[91Dazz_]

I suppose it is quite a tough and hard idea to grasp and a tough objective that could be accomplished by the Fro team since it is a busy time for the team, writing up quests, updates etc. So its cool. I do not wish to further explain or suggest for a market change. After all its just a suggestion.

[Genesis]

We are working on something similar to this. :)