Pvp System

[El7]

Edit the pvp room system and why not make it a room for 1 vs 1, 3 vs 3 and 5 vs 5 only? I think it's more balance and maybe other players will stop complaining of being gang and it can avoid some other things like kill steal etc. I think this will help us improve our skills in 1 vs 1 and in group pvp and it's more challenging.

Edited February 7, 2013 by El7

[Cherry Kiss]

mhh lol the pvp room is alltime empty and now u suggest to creat 2 more rooms

bad suggestion

[Rayray]

those rooms would just make people use Sniper or Stalker. those 2 classes have a distinct advantage in a 1v1 situation with no buffs right?

That idea only works if we have a matchmaking system. sadly we don't.

[El7]

What i meant is edit the previous pvp room and make it a room for 1 vs 1, 3 vs 3 and 5 vs 5 only.

Edited February 7, 2013 by El7

[Drunk]

Hmm... I don't think a new room would help. D:

[Rayray]

as i said, it will just make people use one to two classes as others have a distinct advantage.

also, some classes only works well in group pvp

another reason that this won't really help much is that people who go to the 1v1 rooms would get less kills than the ones who go to 5v5 rooms. bad for laddering.

a better suggestion would be : to have a pvp tournament event hosted by the GMs where there is a 1v1, 3v3, and 5v5 brackets. in pvp rooms, it just won't work.

[zergling]

to be honest the new pvp setup is completely stupid. the fact that there's no FCP when you go in means that a whitesmith or a biochemist will eat people alive simply because of the fact that you cannot keep your armor from being broken. the fact that they can break your armor means that you lose your GR card so the AD will kill almost anyone in the blink of an eye. you might say that they can wear GR+RSX, but the problem with this is that you lose a tao gunka and what pray tell will you do if they are using a hybrid build and can spam bolts and mammo? you can't do anything because you are forced into GTB because of the risk of bolts and are forced to use no tao gunka making your HP far less than theirs. the removal of FCP needs to be nulled because it makes biochemist the sole powerhouse in the pvp room as it stands.

[Rayray]

^ a gr+rsx armor on most classes gives my biochemist a hard time,. no biochemist at the moment can go hybrid with mammonite since if they do that either their AD will suck, bolts will suck, or HP will suck since biochems dont have a huge HP modifier unlike the others. I have to use dual antiques for HP, and if I wanted to bolt, I switch to my dual fbh shoes which makes my hp around 200k-220k depending on build. If you find one biochem that can do 2k ad, 4k bolts without urds and around 25k mammonite without using thana and still have good hp, I would love to meet him.

Risk of bolts? I wore a vote king shield with gtb and wore dual raydrics against another biochem. she did around 2k acidbombs and cannot hit me with bolts. even with 220k hp it will take a good spam to kill me with 2k acid bombs. There are so many things to counter biochemists, I should know, I only play this class nowadays. Bring gear to try and counter every class you might meet.

Add the fact that acid bomb bottles aren't infinite and takes up weight. with 50 str + increase weight limit, I can only carry 200 seeds and 700 bottles each. an LK have more seeds, more hp, more damage than I will ever do.

The fact that as a biochem I have to keep switching armors to fight other classes and most classes will just wear gr+tao and fcp themselves to fully counter me is absurd. most of you guys got babysitted with buffs just to ladder.

Sole powerhouse in PvP, ill give that title to a good sniper. but then again, a sniper can be countered hard using pneuma of champs or WS. So is WS the sole powerhouse? not quite, a dispel would annoy them to no end.

Every class got a counter in pvp, people just don't see it because everyone is either on sinx or champ or LK. no diversity.

enabling one buff that hard counters WS, Biochemists and Stalkers just for people that want their champs, sinx and LK to faceroll everyone in pvp. That seems really fair.

Edited February 8, 2013 by ZerO25

[zergling]

I'm not saying the debuff is bad I'm just saying the FCP should not be debuffed it makes the biochemist unbalanced. also i have seen 2 good biochemists that have been able to use hybrid builds hitting for heavy damage with bolts, mammo, and acid demonstration so yes the build is possible. a whitesmith can use a GTB and still deal heavy damage along with the fact that they have pneuma to stop snipers and most LK they can tank with the HP mod they have and the fact that an LK doesn't have FCP they can be killed with just the amor break and sheer damage output of a WS. a prof against a whitesmith is a joke the whitesmith can use pneuma to block any stave and GTB to block any bolts making the prof 100% useless against the whitesmith. a whitesmith can tank any class without much of a problem, and it's the same with a good biochemist they can tank and handle any other class without much problem it's just the fact of finding a good biochemist and whitesmith to fight. also think of it this way, a stalker using 95% demi resist in the pvp room can strip you because you don't have FCP this makes stalkers completely broken in the pvp room too. it's not so much about the HP mod of the classes it's about the fact that the forced RSX+GR against a chemist is retarted and the fact that strip+armor break has made the pvp room completely imbalanced. since i have come back to the server i have seen biochemists in the pvp room and the occasional whitesmith. I can still remember a time where it was more than just 2 classes that did PVP i remember snipers, pally, LK, champ, sinx, wizards, prof, gunslinger, and many more all in the pvp room now there's no room for that because the other classes simply do not have the HP without the tao gunka armor to sustain a pvp room fight against a class that uses strip or armor break. hell look at pally they are useless in the pvp room now because they can't devo which is what they are made to do because ohh yea no party for pvp meaning that the support classes are now made 100% useless. the old pvp room might have been broken but now it's completely stupid and it's falling apart.

[Rayray]

I see more snipers in pvp room now than biochemists, and around 5 biochems are really geared at the moment. I even see less people using whitesmiths honestly.

Again, I seriously wanted to meet those biochemists as I haven't seen them yet.

Whitesmiths do not have good hp modifiers as well. And they certainly can't tank any class without a problem.

You are thinking of one on one situations in pvp room vs certain classes, of course some will look great. Biochemist will look good against any class with a shitty hp modifier or anyone without rsx armor. if they fight LK, Sinx, and Sniper with RSX+gr armor, they won't look so good. My biochemist looks great in pvp because everyone kept using champs, which do not have a great hp.

WS will look good against classes that do not have high hp as well and cannot handle the use of rsx armor. again, LK have a huge advantage against them due to spiral pierce's range, if they pneuma, LK can push them out, and they cant rsx against an LK. A sinx with the dispel helm(drooping valkyrie) hardcounters WS.

Stalkers with huge resists could pose problems. Then again, A biochemist counters stalkers.

If you look at it, a fully geared LK's only real enemies are Snipers and Stalkers. add gunslinger to the list as too.

It also saddens me that no one uses Clown inside that pvp room when they can really shine right now.

most of the time , a certain class now have at least 1 class that counters it, without any form of external buff. And frankly, when I pvp, all I see are people using classes that a biochemist hard counters. of course we will look great against them.

[zergling]

still the fact that the FCP is removed anyone that uses a strip skill will end up winning just because there is no way to counter it. once someone is stripped they are dead. there's no questioning it and that's the problem with this new pvp layout. you have everyone except biochemists forced into using GR+RSX because if they don't they are dead after about 2 seconds of AD spam which in a group setting is even worse because then they lost all the HP they could have with a GR+tao, meaning odds are they won't tank asura, or a sniper, or any other class for that matter because they are forced into wearing ghostring. besides this was supposed to help prevent the ganging. it hasn't done shit, all it has done is make people not be in a party but they still pvp together. and the person that's laddering gets kills from those team members they happen to kill while targeting someone causing them to get even more kills. the entire basis for this pvp room is false none of it has been done for the right reasons. granted yes the constant 2x atk and such is pretty bad but a 2x atk sniper isn't that hard to tank. same goes for a 2x atk champ. all it takes is 1 dispel and they are done. the debuff on the pvp npc is a waste of time for the players that actually need the buffs.

[Rayray]

putting buffs back,even fcp. still won't stop people from ganging. So your statement regarding gr+rsx in team battles is irrelevant. even with fcp, and you using gr+tao, if you get ganged, sooner or later, you die.

no class needs a full buff setup to pvp, if they do, then it would've been an innate skill, not something they get from dual clienting.

Again, you are thinking of a 1v1 situation regarding strip. Of course, anyone getting stripped is dead, that's the point of having one class hard counter strip, so that strip characters cannot win at everything. stalkers cannot strip full dex characters that easy as well. they can only strip easily the strength based characters or characters that only get 150 total dex. you see the disadvantage because you are using a class that is not a dex class. I haven't seen a gunslinger, clown, and sniper having troubles with stalker. Which means strip isn't that godly, as you assume it to be. Add biochemists to that list, and stalker got 4 classes that it cannot fully strip.

[Spill]

this can lead to more feeding. for example in the 1v1 room, since there are only two people in there, noone will take ss as an evidence of cheating.

and lately, pvp room is empty most of the time. if you wnt 3v3, just go ffild and pick a spot. LOL.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Spill

[Adonis]

i agree to what zergling wrote .... the fcp debuff is stupid ... nightmare wrote that long text for his own profit ^^ actually everyone knows that if there is 1 stalker in the PVP room its boring and no one bother the time go inside .. peace :)

[Rayray]

i agree to what zergling wrote .... the fcp debuff is stupid ... nightmare wrote that long text for his own profit ^^ actually everyone knows that if there is 1 stalker in the PVP room its boring and no one bother the time go inside .. peace :)

Isn't it the other way around Deniz? There is absolutely no reason for me to go pvp in the pvp room but for fun. Not sure how can that profit me in anyway.

Speaking of writing something for his own profit, weren't you the one who told ash to put up that suggestion about making the drop rate of castle drops a little higher since Eidelic wings aren't dropping for you? Deniz, please do not compare my opinions to yours, they are way different since I kinda look for others' benefit, not just mine. :)

On the subject of fcp, if I wanted to profit in pvp room as you assume, I would've wanted fcp to be back, create an LK , fcp myself, and trash everyone around the pvp room. You do realize that It is much easier to pvp as an LK than to pvp as a biochemist.

Edited February 9, 2013 by ZerO25

[zergling]

but then again you can always look at it on the other side of that coin. as a biochemist fighting people that cannot afford 5 different armors and don't have a GR+RSX armor they have no remote chance against a biochemist. from what i have been told this new pvp system is only making things worse. before there were teams of people fighting each other and now it's teams of people killing their allies and enemies giving them more kills and making it far more boring to pvp.

on your note about a stalker not being able to strip high dex classes, it's a load of crap. a max resist stalker can stand in desperado from a gunslinger until they get stripped, tank a sniper without much problems and all it takes is close confine and the sniper WILL get stripped eventually, clowns can only hope they can get a coma and even then all the stalker has to do is chasewalk and the clown cannot do a damn thing about it. as far as biochemist goes they are the only things that can FCP so they are the only class that is safe against a stalker.

in a FFA pvp setting which is what you're getting at a full resist stalker is one of the most feared classes in the pvp room because you won't be running around with FCP and all it takes is 1 strip and the person is dead. an entire team that's fighting is made useless when 1 resist stalker starts stripping them and if they don't have a chemist it's already too late if they get stripped.

as far as the support classes in the new pvp setup they are useless. a pally is weak as shit in terms of damage they don't have the damage output in order to make them effective. a high priest is a support class made for support the fact that they have holy light or can use a battle priest build doesn't mean shit because ohh yea they get stripped because they are a low dex class so that makes them even weaker. I really hope you get what I'm trying to say not the whole "ohh I'm a biochemist and I'm super OP now with the new PVP system." seriously you want to talk about having skill but the thing is a biochemist isn't a difficult class to play hell they get level 10 bolts, acid demo, and they can use mammo and deal heavy damage (with the right build and not some shit build). hell look at Rusty's old build his build never died to much unless it was a solid gang fighting against him, and his damage output was massive. as far as the debuffs go i agree with removing the 2x atk but certain classes need certain buffs in my opinion it would serve better to have the NPC just remove links, and all the gospel buffs, since that's what people are afraid of regarding the pvp room.

[Rayray]

looking on the other side of the coin as well,why would you go pvp if you are not fully geared, and that includes extra armor? why would I need certain armors against certain classes and people just use a buff against a biochemist like me? that seems unfair.

why would a sniper get close to a stalker? that seems pretty stupid isn't it? a good dex class WILL keep distance against a stalker make use of their range. again, you already know that most stalkers are resist, why bother getting close? and for that matter, a full dex char can put back his gears in a few seconds after getting stripped. by just spamming seeds, they can live through the damage a stalker deals at that moment.

I knew good ol enrique will be made an example again :p Rusty got every gear available for biochem. look on the other side of the coin, what about people that can't afford that much gear, wouldn't they be at a disadvantage when FCP comes back? a champ with knight set against a biochem with knight set. put fcp back and the biochem has virtually no chance to fight and win against a champ. without fcp and the champ using gr+rsx, the biochem still will have problems. The old pvp system where buffs are allowed, have you ever seen any other biochemist inside that pvp room besides Rusty then? that's the point, almost no biochemist besides Rusty can pvp last time.

Put FCP back and we are back on the pvp system where LK, champs, sinx and sniper are the only class in pvp room. Stalkers are finally able to pvp after years and you want to take that away?

I pvped in that room for days using biochemist and my occasional use of a dagger sinx and LK. Weirdly enough, without the external buffs like before, I am able to survive a 4 man gang by RTF and kill them using acid demonstration, kill 2 of the 3 people that ganged me on my sinx using the strip cards I had, and killing 3 out of the 5 people that ganged me on LK using mailbreaker and ws card and the occasional strip. and yeah, I died because I got stripped, obviously. if we had the old system, I wouldn't even be able to bring down one of them with me.

Have you actually pvped in that room for A LONG TIME where different classes go in, or you are just assuming from what you heard from people?

and the ladder pvp before wasn't even great. it is either:

1. one who holds the most seeds wins

2. one who runs out of FCP first dies

3. one with a devo pally wins

4. one with 2x attack sniper or MB prof wins.

i don't think that's a better pvp room, only the ones that are super geared gets a chance to win in pvp before. now even just normal geared people have a chance against people that got babysitted with buffs before.

Edited February 10, 2013 by ZerO25

[zergling]

as far as the stalker issue goes, you're thinking of a 1v1 fight. when the sniper is spamming on a class and a stalker runs up and uses close confine the sniper isn't going anywhere it's stuck making it really REALLY easy for the stalker to strip them. the fact of the matter is if the sniper is stripped and being attacked it's dead no question about it. as far as the gang against a chemist and LK, RTF is bad they have very VERY few good players in that guild so honestly that doesn't really mean anything. as far as the stalkers in the pvp room all i have seen are strip stalkers using full demi resist they don't even bother to kill people. i have been in the new pvp room and that's why i can tell you it's complete crap. if one sniper is laddering and someone is helping that sniper and they happen to get into the cross fire of that sniper spamming it's skills and dies the sniper gets 2 points instead of just the 1 for the enemy kill, because he killed the person helping him as well. the problem with this new pvp system is that not all classes are made to go anywhere without any buffs. a lord knight can deal with no buffs because their buffs don't really do that much. a champ on the other hand if they lose their buffs they are in some trouble, same with a sniper, or a stalker, or any other class that's got a buff that's really needed, including star gladiator because the new pvp system dispels the union which is a key skill which they cannot simply use again because of the need for soul link. yes people running in with 2x atk is lame and yes it sucks but this crap with no buffs when you go in the pvp room is by far worse than fighting some scrub 2x atk sniper.

[Veracity]

People have suggested this in the past, but we have rejected it because it would make it easier to cheat for PvP ladder. There is the potential for many other problems, too. Thank you for your suggestion in any case though!