Regarding Creator's Bottles

[TensaZangetsu]

@zero

1. Youre a flee sinx, enough said.

2. What inconsistency? You bring up a statement completly irrelevent to the topic.

3. I choose to spend my tokens on whatever I want, if its any of your buisness..

4. I spend 50-80 tokens during woe and Im speaking for everyone. Cause I know people who spend more. that you "find so hard to believe".

5. Snipers nerf? Thats like giving thor hammer all 1% chance to strip armor, weapon, shield and taking it away and saying they got a nerf. If its not there original skills, then it sure aint a nerf. Unless we talking about a taekwon, then it can be and exceptional.

@amicable we all struggle lol...especially when I go duel daggers. Those ygg dont last very long. Trust me lol..

[Rayray]

1. flee sinx, i have less hp compared to most breaker sinx, i tend to use more yggs, . yet i dont spend that much

2. inconsistency with your previous statements of having nothing to spend on fcp but can spend that much in woe, it is relevant to my topic sine you mention here that you can actually spend something just to try and prove that creators doesn't cost much compared to sinx, therefore doesn't need to lower the price on the bottles and yet you want to remove the strip for snipers because you don't want to spend fcp tickets. again just because you lose to a sniper doesn't mean they are op

3.. Spend it on whatever you want then, may I suggest you buy fcp tickets so that strip doesn't own you?

4. Yes, i still find it hard to believe that you spend that much on WoE. because i know a whole lot of people that doesn't spend any. oh yeah they might not be as lazy as you to farm what they need. sorry about that

5. If it's not their original skills.. hmm. Yes, that is a nice point, it is also isn't originally intended that poison bottle is easily gained. this is a high rate server, a lot of things here wasn't intended in the original setup of RO. BTW, you also said that the lowered rate on valk randgris and WS card is a nerf to sinx. it isn't their original skill, therefore it wasn't nerf?

Again this is turning into somewhat a flame war. just because i disagreed on your topic regarding sniper strip. get over it.

[Cool Guy~]

RSX Cards NooBs -_- thats all

[Kittie]

Are you forgetting that Creators need to spend tokens on woe supplies too? Creators do need to stock on yggs and FCP tickets as well. FCP for the obvious reasons and yggs not only for HP but also SP from skill spam.

I constantly need to spend about 100m in zeny to "reload" my creators bottles and that's not just during woe but in any situation there is PVP. It's really quite draining. I've definitely sold a few tokens for zeny.

Changing the price of the bottles REALLY is not going to change the fact that AD can be quickly spammed and create a great stun lock so I don't know why that is even being debated...

Usually classes with ammo are expensive but it seems as though if you play a GS, Sniper, Gypsy/Clown, or even Ninja you don't need to worry about that cost but when it comes to creator, all of a sudden it's about restocking and buying more supplies.

[Rayray]

I have only seen VERY few creators around, I usually see Rusty the only one doing pvp. so I don't know why reducing the price is a problem. as cool guy pointed out, RSX+GR is already a big counter to creators. we can spam all we want, yes it could stun lock you, but hitting <1200 per hit of AD won't kill anyone.

The Logic of "MY SINX USES A LOT MORE TOKENS THAN YOU CREATORS, SO YOU MUST SUFFER AS WELL" is so flawed i want to kill a dolphin. WoE or not, we creators use a lot of supplies. do you know how fast 500 bottles of each gets depleted? i wasn't even pvping for 10 mins, it was like 5 mins, 2 enemies and my bottles are gone. Also, I use Acid Terror, so my supply gets depleted really fast.

keep in mind that not all has the valk weapon of creator(i have only seen 2 that has it, Rusty and another one), so not all of us got bolts in our disposal. If you tell me to use ice falchion or fireblend, i do use it sometimes, try to pvp with it and tell me if it was such a good replacement for AD.

Mammonite? Mammonite needs attack and aspd to deal decent damage. so you are telling me that i should invest on STR, AGI, VIt, INT, and Dex so that i could fight without needing bottles?

[Cool Guy~]

so dont use sinx =)

[zergling]

stop the flaming please... anyway the cost for AD sets should be dropped to maybe 1k-5k that way chemists can buy the bottles without becoming dirt broke.

and btw @tensa... there is no way in hell you should be spending more than 30 tokens per woe... 5k seeds at 1:4 with speed pots(you shouldn't need more than 200 if you do then you're doing something wrong) at 2:3 and edp which is so cheap it doesn't even count since you can buy them for like 1:10+.... as for cursed waters if you're burning more than 60 cursed waters per woe then you're doing something very wrong.... for FCP tix.... don't die so much... you should only need 100 fcp bottles at most and as long as you don't drop dead every 30 seconds you will have enough for woe. doing the math that adds up to about 30 tokens or so....

[Boklek]

i agree! +1. i spend 100m every 2 days. >.< sometimes only a day.

[Rayray]

I spent like 300m on a 4 hour period where there's WoE, I pvped and i hunted mvps. it wasn't fun considering I just used up 400m on the legendary weapons :p

[Amicable]

Not to be mean, but for those who -1 this suggestion....try being a biochemist that supports and pvps in woe....and tell me how much zenies you spent on bottles and how much tokens you spent on fcp bottles (that is if you dont have them already)

You'll feel our pain once you see how much your zenies decrease in just 1 woe.

[Rayray]

not to mention seeds/berries

[Luxiana]

Bump. As one of the recent breakers who got quite tired of breaking, I can say I've never used 80+ tokens for one WoE. As far as I remember, I haven't really used any tokens at all. But I don't know, maybe I'm just not that spendy as usual? It's a difference if you're a solo guild breaker or a breaker in a big guild too, I suppose. I'd usually spend around 10-13 ygg seed tickets, 0.5- 1 EDP ticket, 2 speed tickets. To sum all of this up, that would be around 10 tokens if not even less, but I'm used on farming for myself, or right now I'm living out of my Guild's salary. Consider this is Euro WoE, though.

And as a breaker, and a fan of creators I do agree with decreasing the price on AD bottles. It's been way too long since Creators got totally pushed aside, many of people only use them to FCP and thats it, I'd love to play it but then again, I don't have Billions of zeny to spend every week, so lowering the price to 1k per bottle would be nice :D!

Edited October 8, 2012 by Quenyi

[Rayray]

Awesome, almost everyone is on board on lowering the costs. Thank you for voicing out your opinions, fellow Creators. :D

[zergling]

for the record i don't play chemist but i still agree since it would make it fair for everyone.

but i did play chemist at one point in time.

Edited October 10, 2012 by zergling

[Rayray]

Yeah and thank you for that :D. In game, there were less than 10 Creators that tries to PVP, and only 1 was really as effective like Rusty

[kohongiap]

Yes! bio is too expensive as a job to play! i agree on either making it cheaper or at best make it infinite... since it is easily counter by other factors!

[zergling]

i don't agree with making the bottles infinate because it doesn't give other classes a change to take a breath. when a biochemist runs out of bottles other classes have a chance to get close and hit them which won't ever happen if they don't ever run out of AD sets.

[Boklek]

LOL zergling. how about the snipers! hahahha.. it is hard to get close with them. especially when they are using charge arrow.

[zxcv]

My suggestion would be making a quest with elite bottles as reward. you decide the effects.

[Amicable]

^ Well, that would be a good suggestion, but lets just stick with the one we have right now. :) I mean your suggestion rocks, but I mean, adding effects on 'elite bottles' sounds a bit odd.

[Rayray]

and unlike the arrows and bullets with a set amount of additional damage and effects, the bottles are just an item. it isn't even a usable item like poison bottles.

@Zergling i see your point there and I agree to it, even though i would love the infinite thing, people might rage through it since nothing stun locks people more than AD

Edited October 11, 2012 by ZerO25

[Shadi]

Personally I'd love to see the bottles unlimited just like the arrows. though I'm not sure if it's even possible to do.

Either way I definitely agree with lowering the costs of these bottles as creators are by far the most expensive class to play and are not as effective at anything compared to other classes. Not the most effective killers, not the most effective supports, not the most effective tanks etc. They got a little bit of everything but lack a lot of everything as well, yet they are by far the most expensive class out there.

people might rage through it since nothing stun locks people more than AD

Haven't tried it with the 'newer' delays yet but what about spiral pierce ? That used to stunlock way more than AD does. And sniper autoattacks stunlock about as much as AD as well just a tiny bit less. Also there's cards that autocast pneuma, this also works vs AD so it'd be extremely easy to get close to them still :).

[Rayray]

@Shadi good to see an old forum member :p

Well, people who played creators know how annoyingly easy to counter AD. most people just think of it as OP skill so most people would say that AD stunlocks people already, do not give them unli bottles.

Ok, on spiral pierce. Yes, it does stunlock more or less the same as AD, and has a better damage potential even without using the valk weapon(thinking the LK at least have the elite spear and/or the legendary equivalent) but as some people might argue, AD breaks stuff and it has higher range than spiral..

Snipers do stunlock, but people might say that almost no one auto attacks with snipers anyway(i see stalkers with triple blow copied do that more than snipers).

Ok again, as I said before, personally, I too would like it to be unlimited. but as it turns out, even if there almost no one that uses creators aside from fcping(The max number I've seen that tries to pvp with creator are 5 people including me, and I am the weakest of the bunch too) people just find it OP to give creators unlimited bottles.

Some might just have fought creators without fcp and thought "hey that class is OP" or some of them just do not want to make Rusty stronger :p

[kuoch]

Who the hell would want to have infinite acid bottles. Specially when macro exist. You'll get constant stun lock, no matter what the situation. STUN LOCKED FOR DAYS.

[Rayray]

Us creators that spends a lot of zeny just to be decent would want them unlimited. if not, at least lower the goddamn price of the bottles.

macro? sorry you got me lost there.

and you guys are thinking of a scenario where the enemy is not fighting. personally i would've slapped on an anti pneuma acc the moment the creator spammed AD, to force him to use bolts(if he has it). i dont think anyone that has half a mind would get stun locked for days by a creator.

And getting stunlocked by 400-900 damage( against people that has gr, shield and dual raydrics, and not deviling) is going to kill someone indeed.

Edited October 11, 2012 by ZerO25