Magic Damage Stacking.

[Xtopher]

It has come to my attention here recently how wickedly high magic damage items are stacking.

I think it's a bit over the top. No class should be dropping you before you can even ygg. Professors are capable of spitting out 8-9k bolts on my Priest with reductions: usakoring friggs, sacreds, assumptio, and angeling armor. That is fucking absurd.

With the professor cape[10%] + kafra headband [40%] + butterfly aura [10%] + Prof Highness [30%] + 2 FBH [20%] + 4 Kingrings [12%]

132% more magic attack + mind breaker doubles this number.

All of this coupled with Double Bolt means your whole bar will be gone before you even know what hit you.

I know a lot of people will say just use maya etc... Well, lets put this in perspective. If asura was killing everyone in 2 seconds flat before you could ygg and I suggested Orc Lord cards to counter it how happy would people be?

GTB is good and all but a lot of the time you only have one chance (events such as GvG/BR/Some WoEs). If you wear GTB you will get destroyed by classes like champ/gunslinger and if you don't a professor will drop you before you ever knew what happened.

Let's also not forget about the huge damage reductions they get with skills like Safety Wall, Energy Coat, and Wall of Fog that give them more survivability.

The fact of the matter is that we gave magic attack too many incremental buffs which, when stacked, are way over powered.

In any gang situation you're completely forced into GTB. If you don't you're dead before you can ygg. Professors always camp under Paladins with wall of fog and energy coat thus taking almost no damage.

My Suggestion: Remove the magic attack stacking like we did with demi-human reductions. Highness 30% shouldn't be stacking with kafra headband's 40% along with the 20% from FBH.

I don't hate the mage classes. They serve a very important purpose. Wizards are excellent disruption with AoEs and Ice Wall. Professors are great support and DPS. But it should be just that: Damage Per Second... not Kill Per Second.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Xtopher

[Bishop]

I actually have to disagree with this. Profs need to be able to kill fast. If they don't kill within a few seconds they will be countered completely. Also profs do not do 9k bolts on a full reduction character and we certainly shouldn't bring in outside buffs like mind breaker. Just because their damage is huge with the buff it doesn't mean the class should be changed. That's the same as saying sonic blow or asura with gospell (double atk) does isane damage and so asura/sonic blow should be nerfed.

I know a lot of people will say just use maya etc... Well, lets put this in perspective. If asura was killing everyone in 2 seconds flat before you could ygg and I suggested Orc Lord cards to counter it how happy would people be?

Everything has it's counters. Use them, instead of wanting to be able to walk with usakoring on 24/7. There's different shield cards for a reason. Putting it into perspective. Asura does kill everyone in 2 seconds when the champ is gospelled. This would be the exact same thing as a prof using mind breaker.

GTB is good and all but a lot of the time you only have one chance (events such as GvG/BR/Some WoEs). If you wear GTB you will get destroyed by classes like champ/gunslinger and if you don't a professor will drop you before you ever knew what happened.

That is the whole point of magic classes. To dish out high damage and force people to use GTB. Which will give an advantage to the other jobs.

In any gang situation you're completely forced into GTB. If you don't you're dead before you can ygg. Professors always camp under Paladins with wall of fog and energy coat thus taking almost no damage.

Certain classes are good when they gang. But you should consider solo players as well. How easy is it to beat a prof 1 vs 1 ? Quite easy if you ask me.

My Suggestion: Remove the magic attack stacking like we did with demi-human reductions. Highness 30% shouldn't be stacking with kafra headband's 40% along with the 20% from FBH.

I completely disagree. This would render the matk of magic classes very very low and would bring them back to 0 balance. By doing this keep in mind you do not only nerf magic classes. But also Creator, supernovice, highpriest and anything else that can use MATK. At this very moment magic classes are already struggling in 1 vs 1 situations. Cutting down their matk will render them useless vs gtbers as stave will no longer be able to do anything. And strip obviously is not really an option with the rate of fcp around. Aside from that keep in mind not every professor is as insanely geared as the one you mentioned. What should non-donation users do if their matk got nerfed ? Not everyone has the kafra band or butterfly aura or highness or the cape. Most people struggle to get a valk weapon, and these people finally got the prof high and now it should be changed to none-stackable with fbh and other matk adding items ? I don't think it would be fair in any way. Not to mention that 100% of all profs that have (bought) the cape would have got it for nothing since it wouldn't stack anymore. Edited February 22, 2012 by Bishop

[Xtopher]

I actually have to disagree with this. Profs need to be able to kill fast. If they don't kill within a few seconds they will be countered completely. Also profs do not do 9k bolts on a full reduction character and we certainly shouldn't bring in outside buffs like mind breaker. Just because their damage is huge with the buff it doesn't mean the class should be changed. That's the same as saying sonic blow or asura with gospell (double atk) does isane damage and so asura/sonic blow should be nerfed.

I mention mind breaker because it as easy buff. It doubles your magic attack instantly. Standing in gospel takes ages sometimes (to around 10-15 minutes if you're unlucky)... Don't compare gospel to mind breaker. If double attack gospel was an instant buff everyone on the server would be QQing.

Everything has it's counters. Use them, instead of wanting to be able to walk with usakoring on 24/7. There's different shield cards for a reason. Putting it into perspective. Asura does kill everyone in 2 seconds when the champ is gospelled. This would be the exact same thing as a prof using mind breaker.

I know counters. I know how to play. I've tested the damage. With assumptio, angeling armor, skull aura, sacreds, usakoring friggs I STILL take 8-9k bolts from a properly geared professor. Asura does NOT kill everyone in 2 seconds when gospelled. Most of my characters have no problem tanking double attack asura WITHOUT devilings. Professors have a much higher kill capacity than champs. Check any big pvp event. Most of the kills come from Profs and Snipers... Champs are left far behind.

That is the whole point of magic classes. To dish out high damage and force people to use GTB. Which will give an advantage to the other jobs.

I agree they should put out high dps but not instantly killing anyone without GTB. DPS stands for damage per second... our geared profs are getting kills per second.

Certain classes are good when they gang. But you should consider solo players as well. How easy is it to beat a prof 1 vs 1 ? Quite easy if you ask me.

Of course, that's a problem with GTB that has been raised multiple times. GTB will never be changed here. But I don't think they should have the capacity to drop you instantly if you don't use it. Most professors ask "duel me without gtb" Well, that isn't a fucking option anymore.

I completely disagree. This would render the matk of magic classes very very low and would bring them back to 0 balance. By doing this keep in mind you do not only nerf magic classes. But also Creator, supernovice, highpriest and anything else that can use MATK. At this very moment magic classes are already struggling in 1 vs 1 situations. Cutting down their matk will render them useless vs gtbers as stave will no longer be able to do anything. And strip obviously is not really an option with the rate of fcp around. Aside from that keep in mind not every professor is as insanely geared as the one you mentioned. What should non-donation users do if their matk got nerfed ? Not everyone has the kafra band or butterfly aura or highness or the cape. Most people struggle to get a valk weapon, and these people finally got the prof high and now it should be changed to none-stackable with fbh and other matk adding items ? I don't think it would be fair in any way. Not to mention that 100% of all profs that have (bought) the cape would have got it for nothing since it wouldn't stack anymore.

Sorry, I don't consider None Donation players in any of my suggestions. To put it simply I find them irrelevant. Why play a fully customized server with tons of awesome items made by people who put time and effort into them just limit yourself? Go back to iRO. No one PvPs seriously as a ND player. Step in for_fild01 with none donation equips and see how long you last. ND pvp room is just a feeding room.

As for the other classes you mention:

Priest should NEVER go full matk holy light build. The priest HP modifier with high int builds is too low. You'll simply one shot yourself on a maya... even without kafra headband etc... I've played priest for years and Int/Holy Light priest is one of the most ineffective builds in game.

Super Novice has a ton of utility outside of magic attack. They have a ton of buffs and other attack based skills that synergize well with their magics. They don't need 100% more magic attack.

Creator: Let's face it... creators mostly depend on acid demo. They do PLENTY of damage if they can get you off of GR. They don't need more matk.

As for the cost of the gear I listed. It doesn't cost that much in total. The magic attack amplifying items are priced high BECAUSE they stack so high. They are inflated because they're OP. I could buy and sell the gears I listed above 10 times over. Most players are pretty item wealthy these days... gearless and ND players don't last long on this server. Most people do NOT struggle to get a valkyrie weapon. Are you serious? When was the last time you PvP'd against someone using elite shit? Any and all real PvPers have valkyrie items.... many of them. I would say there are more people that HAVE valkyrie weapons than those who DON'T.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Xtopher

[nines]

LOL profs don't die fast wtf you talking about you guys are just baddies.

Agree to lower matk. You guys took out scarf and made everything else more op. GJ!

[supream]

one would say profs are like the snipers in iro aka glass cannons, but the buffs u guys gave them is like making their ammunition atomic bombs with rapid fire capabilities. stave crasher can suck at times 20k on gtb is the best ive seen. yea i dont think they should be nerfed so that they cant do anything, if only gtb reduced damage from magical attacks by 70% and reduce damage by 20% so u can try and tank in gangs or something. i dont see any other way cause reducing the magical damage will reduce stave crasher.

[Xtopher]

Agree to lower matk.

Didn't expect that.

the buffs u guys gave them is like making their ammunition atomic bombs with rapid fire capabilities.

ikr

[dadron3]

It has come to my attention here recently how wickedly high magic damage items are stacking.

I think it's a bit over the top. No class should be dropping you before you can even ygg. Professors are capable of spitting out 8-9k bolts on my Priest with full reductions, assumptio, and angeling armor. That is fucking absurd.

With the professor cape[10%] + kafra headband [40%] + butterfly aura [10%] + Prof Highness [30%] + 2 FBH [20%] + 4 Kingrings [12%]

132% more magic attack + mind breaker doubles this number.

All of this coupled with Double Bolt means your whole bar will be gone before you even know what hit you.

I know a lot of people will say just use maya etc... Well, lets put this in perspective. If asura was killing everyone in 2 seconds flat before you could ygg and I suggested Orc Lord cards to counter it how happy would people be?

GTB is good and all but a lot of the time you only have one chance (events such as GvG/BR/Some WoEs). If you wear GTB you will get destroyed by classes like champ/gunslinger and if you don't a professor will drop you before you ever knew what happened.

Let's also not forget about the huge damage reductions they get with skills like Safety Wall, Energy Coat, and Wall of Fog that give them more survivability.

The fact of the matter is that we gave magic attack too many incremental buffs which, when stacked, are way over powered.

In any gang situation you're completely forced into GTB. If you don't you're dead before you can ygg. Professors always camp under Paladins with wall of fog and energy coat thus taking almost no damage.

My Suggestion: Remove the magic attack stacking like we did with demi-human reductions. Highness 30% shouldn't be stacking with kafra headband's 40% along with the 20% from FBH.

I don't hate the mage classes. They serve a very important purpose. Wizards are excellent disruption with AoEs and Ice Wall. Professors are great support and DPS. But it should be just that: Damage Per Second... not Kill Per Second.

+1

What .. Why is there no mention of the cheapest and most easily available gear...

Such as breakneck ? Or similar to mentioned, keyboard/mouse macro's.

There really isn't any need to argue the above posted. I was asking Genesis today why a proff could drop my pally with 500k+ hp and full reducts (asump) in less then 2 seconds unless i ygg spammed all through.... KPS is right. This needs to get reduced "NOT NERFED"

Edited February 22, 2012 by dadron3

[Aerynth]

In every event, I drop dead, killed by proff in 1 second. A time where I cant even blink my eyes. I didn't know what exactly happen. I agree with Chris, they are mighty useful, but they should get high decent DPS, not KPS. +1 .

[HealHard]

Agree on this. 8k bolts with double bolt is 160k damage each cast. Thats far more then asura does on properly geared player. Also bolts can be spammed very easily unlike asura strike. So indeed, single-target DPS of profs is really overpowered. Yes, we know that they achieve such power at cost of hitpoints/strength idk what else. But still, there should not be such situation when a full reductions stalker/ paladin/ lord knight drop dead in a second when they try to kill prof wearing usako. Its like forcing all people to go devs when they see champs. And lets face this : like 90% of PVP situations in FRO is about gangs nowadays. So speaking only about duels is not really relevant. If you duel a prof you FCP and GTB and prof has not a single second to bolt you. So profs always attack in gangs or after/during duels with other classes.If they see GTB they just warp. Removing stacking of MATK will make profs stronger in duels (they will not kill themselves in 1 cast if the opponent wears maya) and also leaves some chance to survive champ + prof combination for example.

[oneinchfist]

all above said i agree coz that's the reality happening in game..

[gildartz]

I agree prof is TOO OP.

[Kcid]

YE too OP! Profs damage 1/4 of my HP ea bolt! Especially the Breakneck users o.o

Edited February 22, 2012 by Kcid

[Bishop]

I mention mind breaker because it as easy buff. It doubles your magic attack instantly. Standing in gospel takes ages sometimes (to around 10-15 minutes if you're unlucky)... Don't compare gospel to mind breaker. If double attack gospel was an instant buff everyone on the server would be QQing.

They have the same effect. Therefore are compareable. It doesn't matter how long it takes to apply it. It's about the effect. Besides you can even stack provoke on top of the double atk. So the bonus to atk is higher than the bonus to matk

I know counters. I know how to play. I've tested the damage. With assumptio, angeling armor, skull aura, sacreds, usakoring friggs I STILL take 8-9k bolts from a properly geared professor. Asura does NOT kill everyone in 2 seconds when gospelled. Most of my characters have no problem tanking double attack asura WITHOUT devilings. Professors have a much higher kill capacity than champs. Check any big pvp event. Most of the kills come from Profs and Snipers... Champs are left far behind.

With those gears on bolts do like 3k-5k damage. not 9k. Stop exaggerating. Decent champs will be able to take down pretty much everyone in 1 hit with double attack. In the big events profs and snipers have the highest kill counts because people do not want to switch their gear vs the profs. And when they do switch then sniper kicks in. It's the way it's supposed to be. Profs force people to switch to gtb or maya, then other classes have advantages. What you are asking for is a change so profs cant force people to gtb. Make people easily able to tank the magic damage and the sniper damage at the same time because usakoring can be on 24/7. It makes so sense at all. If profs do too much damage. Maybe I can agree but completely removing all stacking of matk is a WAY too big nerf to all matk using classes.

Sorry, I don't consider None Donation players in any of my suggestions. To put it simply I find them irrelevant. Why play a fully customized server with tons of awesome items made by people who put time and effort into them just limit yourself? Go back to iRO. No one PvPs seriously as a ND player. Step in for_fild01 with none donation equips and see how long you last. ND pvp room is just a feeding room.

You do not consider people that can not afford to buy all the magic stacking items ? I honestly think that's very selfish. We have a fully customized server yes. And None donation does not mean not using custom items. It means not having donation items such as forsaken king set or a valkyrie weapon. I've seen many players trying to pvp in for field wearing knight set. Just completely ignoring players that aren't as fortunate as yourself is selfish. A suggestion should consider the entire community not just the rich people.

As for the other classes you mention:

Priest should NEVER go full matk holy light build. The priest HP modifier with high int builds is too low. You'll simply one shot yourself on a maya... even without kafra headband etc... I've played priest for years and Int/Holy Light priest is one of the most ineffective builds in game.

I never said they should go full matk. But your matk book wouldn't stack with FBH's anymore. Maybe it wouldn't hurt your holy light damage as much. But your stave crasher will be nerfed to something that can't really kill much.

Super Novice has a ton of utility outside of magic attack. They have a ton of buffs and other attack based skills that synergize well with their magics. They don't need 100% more magic attack.

Whats the use of magic if the damage is so low that you can not force people to gtb/maya ? Supernovices already have to seperate stats to both str and int based playstyles so with an hybrid build you will not be able to put out that much magic damage. These magic attack adding hats are essential to be able to force people to gtb or maya.

Creator: Let's face it... creators mostly depend on acid demo. They do PLENTY of damage if they can get you off of GR. They don't need more matk.

Lets face it. Nobody ever gets off GR. There's an overflow on FCP going around. And there's also gr/rsx armors. Magic is an 100% crucial part of the creator. Without it they won't be able to do anything at all. You want the creators to only be able to use Acid Demo ? What good is that going to do ? Only ghostring or raydrics are needed to nerf that skill to completely useless. That's when their magic kicks in. Lowering their magic damage even more will bring creator back to a useless job that can only fcp/gang, Considering they have to spam level 5 bolts which is already weaker/slower damage than regular bolts. MATK does not add onto Acid Demo damage so saying that they dont need more magic attack because AD already does decent damage (vs none ghostring users) does not make a lot of sense.

As for the cost of the gear I listed. It doesn't cost that much in total. The magic attack amplifying items are priced high BECAUSE they stack so high. They are inflated because they're OP. I could buy and sell the gears I listed above 10 times over. Most players are pretty item wealthy these days... gearless and ND players don't last long on this server. Most people do NOT struggle to get a valkyrie weapon. Are you serious? When was the last time you PvP'd against someone using elite shit? Any and all real PvPers have valkyrie items.... many of them. I would say there are more people that HAVE valkyrie weapons than those who DON'T.

Maybe it doesn't cost much for you. But for many others these items are not cheap. Of course they prices are high because the demand is high. Does that mean we should make the items useless so the price goes down ? I don't agree with that. Edited February 22, 2012 by Bishop

[Leo `D]

-1 on this if you going to unstack disable the gtb on magic lol

[Kcid]

Whatever happens... don't nerf the GTB... PLEASE

[Halion]

Even if their magic attack is lowered, i'd use gtb because either i die from high speed spam of bolts or lag because i can't move when i get spammed of bolts.

Lets be honest, since niness quit and dudu is inactive there are no professors that take serious their job, these guys would fight with all skills a prof got, but today and everyday i see profs that would only go on suicide mode, full matk and if it don't work they're like " wow im screwed ".

Reduce the damage, make the valk weapons worth the tokens they spend to get it using all their skills.

[Seraphine]

Magic can definitely pack a punch but it can also be worthless with the use of one card. It's tough to find a balance, they can't do too little damage or else they'll be the worse class in the game,if they do too much then they'd be 1 shotting people unless gtb is always kept on which wouldn't work out either. Mind-breaker does have to come into play when considering to balance this out, it could be reduced but by how much? It's REALLY tough to balance it correctly without ruining the game. I do agree with magic not being able to stack to a certain point.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Seraphine

[Leaz]

imo, i think this is why people accuse others of 'breaknecking'. The damage gets extremely high causing them to die fast, obviously.

tbh, i know that when i play professor in pvp, woe, gvg, battle royale, etc. i always have a mb'er and it is so annoying when people accuse others of 'breaknecking' when actually, it's 4 kiels, 195 aspd, and sometimes mb.

ANYWAYS, IM DONE QQ'ING.

& i agree on lowering the stack of matk.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Leaz

[Levis]

Indeed. Since the infernal capes, butterfly auroras and kafra hairband came into play, "Breakneck" came into everyone's mind. And I am totally annoyed to see everybody else accusing others for that. It only seperates the community into those who are accused and those who do accuse. So, I do think decreasing the Magic Attack from some items, pointing at Kafra Hairband, would put the thought of nerfing GTb aside, temporary.

Kafra Hairband suggestion: http://www.forsaken-ro.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=21234

+ / - 1.

[HealHard]

Not the items should nerfed but the cap of the damage stacking should be limited. Like with reduction gears - combat knife, devi hat, santa p.hat have their effects disabled with usako shield. We need some screenshots of good profs bolting a decently geared player with various gears so we can say what amount of magic attack should be kept.

[killee07]

+1 to stacking change.

And by the way, 8-9k bolts on full reductions are real, based on experience.