Guardian Stones

[Fabre Stalker]

;p Disagreeing with this topic! WoE 2.0 is ment to be hard not a walk in the park! If your tactics dont work then try a new one~

[supream]

You can't heal the stone until it breaks. You shouldn't nerf Priests in WoE. The guardian stone can be hit by magic, asura strike, etc. It can take 150m damage in under 30 seconds if undefended. What are priests supposed to do otherwise? All other skills a priest utilizes are not High Priest-exclusive. Are you to remove Sanctuary from being used to heal the emperium as well? Just make the stone bigger. No one complains about priests and the emps because it's visible.

P.S. It's not like it's impossible to break a stone, even with a priest using heal. I saw a lot of posts here about 'what if 3-5 priests bombard it with heal?!?!?' What the hell. No guild has 3-5 active priests, let alone ones that will dedicate there entire time to healing the Guardian Stone. That would take too much manpower away from actually trying to kill people. Why don't people utilize Magnetic Earth+use team work. The maximum a priest can heal is around 450k. I'm sure a 3m+ asura strike can out damage that people.. put yourselves in the place of those you try to critic. Maybe you should stop trying to look for quick fixes and realize your strategies/team work isn't in check. A group of 3 people can break a castle in normal WoE when it's being defended by 30+ people, yet no one complains about reductions. It's not always the system's fault, things are difficult for a reason.

man i know your trying to make a argument but normal font please.

[HealHard]

nobody says that 2.0 should be as simple as a "walk in the park". dont forget that we have 2(!) guardian stones with ability to rebuild them. moreover, a series of barricades also exist. So disabling bascojins is a nessesary measure, because otherwise defending 2.0 is way too easy. Nobody says that you have 3-5 fully geared priests to heal stones and completely abuse that. Even ONE is enough to be honest. thats why it MUST be fixed. thanks.

[Drax]

It's not that hard to buy bascojins and start casting heal on the stone, you have more than enough people to do it, its just that you dont't want to or whatever your reason is, And just because you lose ONE stone you still have another one, and 3 more sets of barricades and the emp so im not sure why everyone seems to think once the stone breaks WoE just ends and you lose the castle keep in mind the WoE is only one hour, when on iRO it is 2.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Drax

[.Kyuubi.]

nobody says that 2.0 should be as simple as a "walk in the park". dont forget that we have 2(!) guardian stones with ability to rebuild them. moreover, a series of barricades also exist. So disabling bascojins is a nessesary measure, because otherwise defending 2.0 is way too easy. Nobody says that you have 3-5 fully geared priests to heal stones and completely abuse that. Even ONE is enough to be honest. thats why it MUST be fixed. thanks.

+1

ps. BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITCHED

[Ferocious]

Stop thinking of what benefit you could or couldn't get. Mike, stop talking about the pass. This is a suggestion for the future "just target the classes that cause the biggest problems for you instead of just attacking everyone you see. that's how we got it from you the first time. and get more champs to asura the stones and barricades. if i recall when you guys had it last me, and juan, but mainly me broke one stone and the barricades going to the emp in 6 min. you guys should remember this." Are you trying to showoff or something? +You guys can always take it back after we break it or something. And yea, when you have 50 people ons, you can easily have 3-5 Priest to heal the stones. "Get more champ and asura the stones" Okay, but where is the stones? You gotta deal with 15 people

trying to kill you, spam asura on the stones, deal with the lags, Ygg spamming and find the little stone around those 55 people. Good luck. If the get kill, defending guild can come back in less than 10 seconds because the flag's respawn point. +The guild can still ecall. In normal American WoE, you can defend a emperium who you can't heal 1 hour. In 2.0, you gotta break 2 stones who can get healed and repaired in 10 mins, 3 barricades and 1 emperium. You still have only 1 hour to do that and the stones have more HP than american WoE castle so..

+1 to this suggestion.

[supream]

well you cant go from one extreme to the other you guys gotta find some sort of middle ground. no heals in woe isnt the answer, and as you guys say have 540k heals in woe isnt the right way to go either. so try to find something in the middle, changing the property of the stones dosent work either.

[Drax]

you have ONE hour to defend us from taking you're castle at 6 different places, thats more than enough and you can put the stones up 9 times in WoE theoretically

Edited January 20, 2012 by Drax

[Xtopher]

It would hurt the emp instead of healing it. Also, we can just make bacsojin cards not work in WoE 2.0 (exclusively in WoE 2.0).

*Edit*

Making it undead simply won't work. There are a large number of factors not being considered here that would cause serious issues. The best suggestion would be to simply disable Bacsojin Cards in WoE 2.0.

Yes, it has come to my attention that making it undead isn't possible. Turn Undead skill would potentially one shot the stone. It seems that disabling bacsojins is the only legitimate option left. In the interest of fairness they have to be disabled.

if that happens will sanc go back to 777 again? or was that just a bug from a while back.

It wasn't a bug. Sanctuary will be nerfed by disabling bacsojins, unfortunately.

There is no way to heal the stone with combinations only rebuild them after they broke completely. This can only be done 8 minutes after the stone broke. Without the ability to heal the stones both stones will break way too easily. The stone is weaker than the emp because it can be killed way faster due to the fact that skills work on them, being able to heal it is crucial. and then there's a 8 minute delay to rebuild it after it broke.

@supreamus. Yes if that happens sanc will go down to 777 inside the WoE 2.0 map.

You are posting as if there isn't anyone defending them. They stones will never break "easily". Tanking 40 defenders and just making your way to the stone isn't "easy", much less killing the proper defending classes as well as trying to deal damage to the stone. Being able to heal is not crucial.

If there's no way to heal the stones they will eventually break. and If you somehow manage to get to the emp there's no way to heal it with 777 heals

Yes, they will break eventually. They're supposed to break. WoE 2.0 isn't supposed to be based off of the guardian stones alone. If it were then why would there even be an emp and 3 baracades? It's unfortunate that sanctuary would have to be nerfed as well, but it's necessary.

You can't heal the stone until it breaks. You shouldn't nerf Priests in WoE. The guardian stone can be hit by magic, asura strike, etc. It can take 150m damage in under 30 seconds if undefended. What are priests supposed to do otherwise? All other skills a priest utilizes are not High Priest-exclusive. Are you to remove Sanctuary from being used to heal the emperium as well? Just make the stone bigger. No one complains about priests and the emps because it's visible.

P.S. It's not like it's impossible to break a stone, even with a priest using heal. I saw a lot of posts here about 'what if 3-5 priests bombard it with heal?!?!?' What the hell. No guild has 3-5 active priests, let alone ones that will dedicate there entire time to healing the Guardian Stone. That would take too much manpower away from actually trying to kill people. Why don't people utilize Magnetic Earth+use team work. The maximum a priest can heal is around 450k. I'm sure a 3m+ asura strike can out damage that people.. put yourselves in the place of those you try to critic. Maybe you should stop trying to look for quick fixes and realize your strategies/team work isn't in check. A group of 3 people can break a castle in normal WoE when it's being defended by 30+ people, yet no one complains about reductions. It's not always the system's fault, things are difficult for a reason.

You can heal the stone before it breaks. All you have to do is hold shift and spam the skill "Heal" on it. Priests/Champions/Paladins/Stalkers are all capable of healing Stones/Baracades for 300-500k with the proper equipment setup. Do you know how difficult it is for a champion to get to the stone and be able to aim an asura? By the time they get one successful asura off they're most likely going to die. Then the damage is healed in approximately 5-10 heal spams which is much more easy to do. I look at every suggestion objectively before I "critic" things.

If this were iRO and we were capable of silencing priests there would be no problem, but it isn't. There is no counter to this when a priest or priests can pop back into the guardian stone area in approximately 30-40 seconds and go right back to healing. The 3-5 priest example was just an extreme to how bad this could get. The active guild on the server could afford to assign 3-5 people to solely play priest to heal stones. It takes very little equipment to do this so even noobies could do it.

;p Disagreeing with this topic! WoE 2.0 is ment to be hard not a walk in the park! If your tactics dont work then try a new one~

I don't remember ever saying I wanted this to be a walk in the park. I'm simply stating what would be the fairest thing to do. Please go into further detail when you disagree in my topics otherwise I'm going to simply ignore your posts. I welcome debate as long as it is somewhat intelligent.

An example of an intelligent post would be:

1. Explaining said tactics.

2. Explaining how they are flawed.

3. Explaining how removing heal would make this a "walk in the park".

The last time I went for a walk in the park 45 people weren't trying to jump me, strip my clothes, and leave me in a comatose state.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Xtopher

[supream]

nicely said,but wouldnt middle ground be halving the effect of basco during 2.0?

[Xtopher]

I don't know if that's possible. Plus, it would still heal a lot.

[Shadi]

It takes a while to read the entire topic but after doing so I concluded the following.

WoE 2.0 has been like this for quite a while now. Until recently no complaints about this issue have been made. Suddenly now it becomes a huge issue ? Why is this ? It has been used since the start of WoE 2.0. And yes I have seen both parties use it before. and no I'm not in any of the two opposing guilds.

The way I see it healing the stones is part of the game. If you want to disable healing the stone then disable the use of all skills on the stone. Only disabling the heal on it will leave it vurnerable for all skills while it cant be healed. Now since there's only one castle open lets compare it to European WoE. In there the emperium easily breaks once every 2-4 minutes maximum (I actually counted and timed the breaks from today's woe). This while some guilds do try to fully defend. Now considering that on these stones skills can be used it will break way faster than the emperium. Not even mentioning that the emperium can still be healed by sanctuary. In other words, there is no way the stone can be defended decently without the ability to heal it. With the current HP from the stones a decent champ can take it down with about 25-30 asuras. Adding magic classes with bolts to that is like a 2min bolt spam by 1 prof + 20 asuras and it's down unless it can be healed. The stone would be able to get taken out by a dedicated group of 3 players. Paladin, prof, and champion. Now imagine an entire guild attacking it. There would be no need at all to kill defenders as the stone would break within a minute or two.

Removing the ability to heal it completely ( or removing the basco effect ) is not an option in any way if you want to give the defending guild any chance of keeping the castle. If you do disable the ability to heal the stone then disable all other use of skills on it as well. Or boost it's HP by a big big amount. Also an increase in size should be done no matter what the outcome of this suggestion will be. Honestly all I would like to see is a increase in size. Make it easy to target for the attacking guild. It should fix quite some problems already.

Responding to some last-made posts in this topic.

You can heal the stone before it breaks. All you have to do is hold shift and spam the skill "Heal" on it.

I don't think you understood what he said. He responded to the statement that it's possible to heal the stone with the required parts. Which unfortunately is not true. It can only be rebuild with the parts not healed with them.

They stones will never break "easily". Tanking 40 defenders and just making your way to the stone isn't "easy", much less killing the proper defending classes as well as trying to deal damage to the stone. Being able to heal is not crucial.

Emps oftenly break by a small groups of 3-5 players vs a fully defending guild. And the emp can be healed by sanctuary. If you remove the ability to heal these stones I think they will break very easily unless more changes will be made such as a hp boost or making it immune to all skills.

Turn Undead skill would potentially one shot the stone.

I lol'd hard. - Immune to Status Change , - Boss Type Immunity to Skills. This my friend means it can not be sucessfully hit by turn undead. even if it had the undead element. Else you would be killing mvps with one turn undead as well.

[Drax]

Brian you havent even done WoE 2.0 so really i cant take your post serious, you don't know what goes on and No this healing shit hasnt been going on the whole time just the past couple of WoE's and once again you're another person who thinks "omg the stone broke, castles gone" i really have NO idea where you people get this from WoE is ONE hour not 2 like on iRO theres still another stone, and you can repair the other one within 10 mins not to mention 5 sets of 3 barricades and then finally the emperium there is no way to be "in the middle" being able to heal and turtling the stone all of WoE is stupid and NOT the point of WoE

and you're entire thing about 20-30 asuras you cant even target the stone let alone have enough position lock to even be able to cast a skill

Edited January 21, 2012 by Drax

[Shadi]

Cole. You don't know every character that I have, you couldn't possibly know whether I woe'd or not. And I have played WoE 2.0 several times on here as well. Never in my post did I state "omg the stone broke castle is gone" I stated if you allow the change to not being able to heal it you cant sucessfully guard the stone. Which is a fact (given its current hp and giving the fact that it will still be vurnerable to all other skills). A dedicated group would be able to take down the stone in about 2 minutes if the defending party would not be able to heal it. Once the stone breaks it doesn't mean the castle is gone but the stones are the main defence of the castle. being able to break the stone in 2 minutes time would be rediculous.

So sure you can change basco card. but then make the stone immune to all other skills as well. Or boost up it's HP big-time. So it will have a lot hp but will surely die eventually.

[.Kyuubi.]

They're meant to die eventually, as the stones are now, thats not even close to happening. Think before you post.

[Drax]

sure the stone would break in 2 mins if there was nobody defending it, but thats not the situation theres 3 guilds defending it against one healing the stone doesn't matter on iRO cuz it does 777 but yes this is a highrate server but being able to spam 500k heals every time you cast is not balanced either

[Shadi]

Kyuubi. Your personal attacks are so uneccesary. If you read my entire posts you will understand what I mean.

@cole I never said it was balanced the way it is. I'm stating that completely removing the ability to heal it is not balanced either. To get something in between is removing the ability to heal it and boosting up it's max HP. this way it cant be kept up by healing and will surely die within decent time. The time you were on the stone today nearly every run you did, it would've easily broke if they would not be able to heal the stone, even if it had more max hp.

[Xtopher]

It takes a while to read the entire topic but after doing so I concluded the following.

WoE 2.0 has been like this for quite a while now. Until recently no complaints about this issue have been made. Suddenly now it becomes a huge issue ? Why is this ? It has been used since the start of WoE 2.0. And yes I have seen both parties use it before. and no I'm not in any of the two opposing guilds.

The way I see it healing the stones is part of the game. If you want to disable healing the stone then disable the use of all skills on the stone. Only disabling the heal on it will leave it vurnerable for all skills while it cant be healed. Now since there's only one castle open lets compare it to European WoE. In there the emperium easily breaks once every 2-4 minutes maximum (I actually counted and timed the breaks from today's woe). This while some guilds do try to fully defend. Now considering that on these stones skills can be used it will break way faster than the emperium. Not even mentioning that the emperium can still be healed by sanctuary. In other words, there is no way the stone can be defended decently without the ability to heal it. With the current HP from the stones a decent champ can take it down with about 25-30 asuras. Adding magic classes with bolts to that is like a 2min bolt spam by 1 prof + 20 asuras and it's down unless it can be healed. The stone would be able to get taken out by a dedicated group of 3 players. Paladin, prof, and champion. Now imagine an entire guild attacking it. There would be no need at all to kill defenders as the stone would break within a minute or two.

Removing the ability to heal it completely ( or removing the basco effect ) is not an option in any way if you want to give the defending guild any chance of keeping the castle. If you do disable the ability to heal the stone then disable all other use of skills on it as well. Or boost it's HP by a big big amount. Also an increase in size should be done no matter what the outcome of this suggestion will be. Honestly all I would like to see is a increase in size. Make it easy to target for the attacking guild. It should fix quite some problems already.

Responding to some last-made posts in this topic.

I don't think you understood what he said. He responded to the statement that it's possible to heal the stone with the required parts. Which unfortunately is not true. It can only be rebuild with the parts not healed with them.

Emps oftenly break by a small groups of 3-5 players vs a fully defending guild. And the emp can be healed by sanctuary. If you remove the ability to heal these stones I think they will break very easily unless more changes will be made such as a hp boost or making it immune to all skills.

I lol'd hard. - Immune to Status Change , - Boss Type Immunity to Skills. This my friend means it can not be sucessfully hit by turn undead. even if it had the undead element. Else you would be killing mvps with one turn undead as well.

First of all, I don't know who you are but I doubt you know much about defending/attacking in our WoE 2.0 situation if you aren't part of the two major warring guilds. Running around on some random character watching people fight is not the same as actually being in the fight. I've known about the potentiality since the beginning of WoE 2.0, however, I have never abused this myself.

Now, let's get down to business, shall we? I know no one has made a topic about this. Unlike most people I like to give new things time before ranting off in the suggestion threads about how things are "OP". I like to see how things play out and how they bring balances/imbalances to the game for a while before I come to a position on either side. I've given this topic a lot of thought since people started heal bombing the guardian stones and thus I'm making the topic now. Would you rather me make a suggestion as soon as I see heal bombing used and based off of situational emotion or illogical rage? No. I prefer my suggestion threads to be thought out and logical.

Next, when in the bloody fucking hell is a champ going to pop off 25-30 asuras on a guardian stone? This is NOT possible. With the level of defense that the guilds in WoE 2.0 have no champ(s) will EVER get the opportunity to drop more than 2-3 asuras on a stone. Your examples don't include people actually defending. Where is the other guild while your champ/prof examples are unloading on the stones? I suppose 30-40 defenders are walking around all herp derp? This simply isn't logical. Guardian stone defensive strategies are air tight as of lately. Most attackers get overwhelmed before they ever even get to the stone, and even if they manage to kill a few on the way the defenders are back in 40 seconds. A lot of people are posting here as if NO ONE is actually defending the stones. The fact is that most attackers get crushed like flies before they ever even get to the stone and the healing on top of the airtight defense is just imbalanced.

How is removing heal going to completely demolish 2.0 defenses? You have to

1. Take down a fully defending stone.

2. Take down the other fully defended stone (the defending guild has the advantage of using the flags to get there first)

3. If you manage to do step 2 10 minutes after step one you can move to step 4. If not go back to step 1.

4. Take down fully defended baracade 1

5. Take down fully defended baracade 2

6. Take down fully defended baracade 3

7. Make it all the way to the emp room and take down a fully defended emp.

At any point during attacking the baracades they'll probably ressurect the stones. By the time you make it to baracade 3 the stones should be back up.

Here's how I see current 2.0 breaking down.

"20 minutes to break stone 1. 15 minutes to break stone 2. Stone one was repaired 5 minutes ago, gotta attack it again. 20 More minutes to break stone 1. 15 minutes to break stone 2....but wait.... we only have 5 minutes left in WoE... What are baracades again?"

@Your other little comments:

If he was referring to "healing" the stones through items he should have said that. He said healing. Heal is a skill. This topic is about said skill. He should be more clear.

Next, don't compare normal WoE to WoE 2.0. WoE 2.0 has MUCH MORE people online defending than any normal WoE castle. It's the new big thing for the server thus it is way more popular.

@The Turn Undead comment: I'm very well aware of how the skill works. If you read really carefully I said "potentially". I said this because, to put it bluntly, shit happens! Sometimes there are bugs, and I'm sure Genesis doesn't want to run the risk of this happening. I'm glad you "lol'd hard" though.

Cole. You don't know every character that I have, you couldn't possibly know whether I woe'd or not. And I have played WoE 2.0 several times on here as well. Never in my post did I state "omg the stone broke castle is gone" I stated if you allow the change to not being able to heal it you cant sucessfully guard the stone. Which is a fact (given its current hp and giving the fact that it will still be vurnerable to all other skills). A dedicated group would be able to take down the stone in about 2 minutes if the defending party would not be able to heal it. Once the stone breaks it doesn't mean the castle is gone but the stones are the main defence of the castle. being able to break the stone in 2 minutes time would be rediculous.

So sure you can change basco card. but then make the stone immune to all other skills as well. Or boost up it's HP big-time. So it will have a lot hp but will surely die eventually.

That is not "fact" that is opinion. The only way we can know it is if we test your hypothesis. You have no proof of fact, you only have opinion based off information, the same as me.

Fact:

A truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true.

Opinion: A belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

Today we tested some theories. We had people hard focus the stones. Specific weapons put together just for stone destruction. All WoE 2.0 asuraing, bowling bashing, and auto attacking the stone and it never broke.

Where is your evidence behind your "fact". I wan't to see your proof.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Xtopher

[Shadi]

First of all, I don't know who you are but I doubt you know much about defending/attacking in our WoE 2.0 situation if you aren't part of the two major warring guilds. Running around on some random character watching people fight is not the same as actually being in the fight. I've known about the potentiality since the beginning of WoE 2.0, however, I have never abused this myself.

I have been in one of the bigger guilds. and I certainly do know what I'm talking about. I'm not running around on a character watching. I normally do join the battle , yet today I didn't for 1 single reason. I wanted to be able to post here based on information gathered today and in the past. And yes you've known it. You've used it in the first few WoE 2.0's. Mark the word used not abused as you named it. As it's not a bug of any kind it cant be considered abuse in any way. It's there to be used.

Now, let's get down to business, shall we? I know no one has made a topic about this. Unlike most people I like to give new things time before ranting off in the suggestion threads about how things are "OP". I like to see how things play out and how they bring balances/imbalances to the game for a while before I come to a position on either side. I've given this topic a lot of thought since people started heal bombing the guardian stones and thus I'm making the topic now. Would you rather me make a suggestion as soon as I see heal bombing used and based off of situational emotion or illogical rage? No. I prefer my suggestion threads to be thought out and logical.

Thought out and logical.. shutting down the main defence mechanism of WoE 2.0 almost entirely is not that thought out, neither is it logical. Maybe it's logical in your point of view because right now the heal makes you unable to take it, so you want to turn things around completely and make something that right now is easy to guard into something quite unguardable.

Next, when in the bloody fucking hell is a champ going to pop off 25-30 asuras on a guardian stone? This is NOT possible. With the level of defense that the guilds in WoE 2.0 have no champ(s) will EVER get the opportunity to drop more than 2-3 asuras on a stone. Your examples don't include people actually defending. Where is the other guild while your champ/prof examples are unloading on the stones? I suppose 30-40 defenders are walking around all herp derp? This simply isn't logical. Guardian stone defensive strategies are air tight as of lately. Most attackers get overwhelmed before they ever even get to the stone, and even if they manage to kill a few on the way the defenders are back in 40 seconds. A lot of people are posting here as if NO ONE is actually defending the stones. The fact is that most attackers get crushed like flies before they ever even get to the stone and the healing on top of the airtight defense is just imbalanced.

Seeing how long your devo paladins lasted during this WoE a champ could easily get off 5-10 asuras on the stone before one of them or both of them would die. In my examples I do have people defending. The problem is not a lot of you are able to survive as good as some of your geared players like Cole himself. This woe you were outnumbered and most likely outgeared based on average gear from each player. If you are able to recruit more players or gear more players up it wouldn't be as hard as it's now (specially not if they cant heal the stone and it just has boosted hp). Today digni had more people than usual and you cant expect to just walk over a guild that has way more members than you. You not being able to reach the stone is because of : 1 : you have less people and some of them are still undergeared. 2 : there is not a single bit of tactiques involved in your attacking, other then ecalling nearby. In the entire woe, I have maybe seen 1 land protector coming from your professors. This skill is highly essential when attacking a castle. Other than 1 or 2 LKs of your guild none focussed the stone everyone went after players instead. Dont try to change WoE 2.0 mechanisms just because you cant dominate a guild that had 3x your amount of members. o.o

Today we tested some theories. We had people hard focus the stones. Specific weapons put together just for stone destruction. All WoE 2.0 asuraing, bowling bashing, and auto attacking the stone and it never broke.

No land protectors. No champs on the stones other than 1 single champ asuraing stone 2 while the rest of you was at stone 1 and focussing players. not the stone.

As for my fact. At our current rate normal emperiums during eu woe die once every 2minutes-3minutes. this is an average of our last 5 EU Woes. so this is a fact. based on numbers. if emps (that can be healed but cant be targetted for other skills) cant even be guarded. Then how on earth will anyone guard the guardian stone that will not be able to be healed properly but WILL be able to get targetted by any skill ? Yes WoE 2.0 has much more defenders, but much more attackers as well.

Bottom line my opinion :

I'm fine with removing the ability to heal the stone. But do increase it's max HP so it cant break within 2 minutes. These stones are needed for guardians and for the barricade they shouldn't be a 2 minute job. which they will be if their hp doesn't get boosted and they'll be unhealable.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Shadi

[supream]

i wasnt aware of this until today on how many people we have in the guild. idk when that happened. but what i saw was a game of numbers.

[dadron3]

.

Edited March 25, 2014 by dadron3

[.Kyuubi.]

If you guys voted against what he said.

You need to come attend a WOE 2.0. I'm a member of Dignified and still think it's ridiculous how 2 guilds can't even manage to get by the first stone.

It is seriously seriously over-powered. All I gotta do is sit and devo the HP and they can heal it all day while the defense holds of the offense (easily especially since the stones are very hard to break and a 100 other reasons that have already been stated multiple times.)

Please if you have any sense get rid of heal on the stones. If it nerfs the HP class according to some people, so be it. But at the moment it's plain and simply said.

OVER POWERED.

+1 obv.

speakin the truth, what do any of you douche bags have to say about this?

i wasnt aware of this until today on how many people we have in the guild. idk when that happened. but what i saw was a game of numbers.

sarcasm?

As for my fact. At our current rate normal emperiums during eu woe die once every 2minutes-3minutes. this is an average of our last 5 EU Woes. so this is a fact. based on numbers. if emps (that can be healed but cant be targetted for other skills) cant even be guarded. Then how on earth will anyone guard the guardian stone that will not be able to be healed properly but WILL be able to get targetted by any skill ? Yes WoE 2.0 has much more defenders, but much more attackers as well.

Bottom line my opinion :

I'm fine with removing the ability to heal the stone. But do increase it's max HP so it cant break within 2 minutes. These stones are needed for guardians and for the barricade they shouldn't be a 2 minute job. which they will be if their hp doesn't get boosted and they'll be unhealable.

There definitely aren't (ARE NOT) more people online for WoE 2.0 than there are for EU or American WoE. The only guild attacking you is Bravery. None of the German guilds or even smaller pinoy guilds even bother trying because they know its futile. How can you justify anything that you've just said?

Edited January 21, 2012 by .Kyuubi.

[supream]

halving the effect of basco seems to be half and half here.

[.Kyuubi.]

Stop posting here, this issue has been resolved.

Edited January 21, 2012 by .Kyuubi.

[Lily~]

Hello fRO players. I've heard of this situation in-game and I have finally gotten a chance to view these ideas. I will start with the ideas of dear [GM]Bishop. His notion in refuting this suggestion is more than understandable. However, I'd like to give my own views and see how this goes. Dear Xtopher, I will be attacking and refuting your ideals and suggestions. Please remember that I am doing this in the mercy and satisfaction of the server and I am not as narrow minded to succumb to such a challenging WoE.

I'd first like to bring up Point 1: The basis of WoE 2.0.

War of Emperium 2.0 was created by Gravity, the makers of Ragnarok Online to create a more challenging environment. It is Gravity, not the Administrators of fRO, that viewed 2.0 to be a more challenging WoE for the attacking guilds. Please note that it was Gravity that decided the structures of 2.0 to have two additional defenses made compared to the original WoE. It has been Gravity's intention to make it a challenge. As a lover of this game I have accepted this challenge. Have you not? You yourself say this to attack the system for means to make it easier. That is understandable and admirable. However, 2.0 has been up for over 2 months yet you bring this up now? I can't help but to question your underlying cause in doing this.

Second, in countless WoE 2.0s it was not an issue for the attacking guild to break the guardian stones. The only issue that was implied was the fact on the attacking guild failed to break BOTH guardian stones at once. Is this in the effects of the server? Let me break it down. As I play WoE 2.0 I would like to share the environment of WoE 2.0 to the masses. During WoE 2.0 the attacking guild has not yet ever failed to break at least one Guardian Stone per WoE. In fact, after the stone was reconstructed the attacking guild brutally murdered the newly erected stone. Once one stone was down, there is only one left. This gives an advantage to the defending guild. Where the entire defending guild defends the only Guardian Stone left. This challenges the attacking guild more than before when both stones were erected and where the defending guild was split. Now dear gamers, is this challenge to harsh for your liking? Maybe it might not always be the coding or the defense of a castle but the plans of the attacking guild.

Next I will like to bring up the values of economics.

fRO is based on a "capitalism" idea of economy, in my views. To explain, fRO's Staff has no say in the prices of the items within the server. These prices are set by the populous, the people. Let us create an environment where WoE 2.0 cannot be defended well due to the changes my opponent, Xtopher, suggested. If any of my opponent's suggestions were to be acted upon, the defense will fall easily. This will create a higher chance of turn overs in terms of castle ownership. Not only will this create chaos during WoE 2.0 but it will also alter the pricing of the rare and much admired Gold Set. Please do not forget that in this server there is a maximum of 30,000 tokens within an account. What this shows the players of fRO that 30,000 tokens is the maximum amount of pay for either a product or service. Because the Gold Set will be harder to obtain and the maximum price is set at a certain amount, all other prices of the items in the server will plummet due to comparison. This will harm the self supporting economy created by the very people that are giving such unorganized suggestions.

Now I will be more explicit and detailed in terms of the current suggestion at hand: The expulsions of Bacsojin Cards in WoE 2.0.

This suggestions concerns me the most, where my opponent has suggested to expel the use of Bacsojin Cards within this event. I ask you to please stop and think about this more clearly. Have you ever thought to consider the effects of expelling the cards in the views of Priest-main members? By taking away Bacsojin cards completely you have stripped away their most important priority in the event. Please remember that Emperium is immune to heal, the only way to heal it is through Sanctuary. By taking away the cards you have forced a fellow player the keep 300,000,000HP Emperium with a 777 Sanctuary. Have you ever thought to consider the effects it will do on the total outcome? Or is it because my opponent is a breaker at heart, an attacker, that does not care for his supporting members? I can guarantee that the average damage a breaker does to an emperium is not less than 777 a hit. Also to remain on the case of my opponent, Guardian Stones. The Guardian Stones are neutral and are effected by Thanatos. An average hit from a geared player of any class is much more than a Heal of 12,000 without Bacsojins, nonetheless a 777 Sanctuary. This is plummet the defense of the castle, and worse of all the morale of Priest-main players.

Dear Xtopher, have you considered the damage difference to healing difference you are trying to imply? Or is this your bias goal? This could be expected to a player of fRO that doesn't main a support class. But then again how many fRO players main support classes anymore?

I'd like to turn your attention to the statistics of classes being made throughout the server. How often do you see a Priest anymore? A paladin? A creator? fRO has been striving to create class balance in order to appeal to everyone. Yet it is lately that the server is continually lacking in support class players. This reflects how "Class balanced" we are. Yet still, my opponent wishes to sweep these classes under the rug. To rid of such classes. From the statistics above, if this suggestion were to be acted on, the minority of our support classes will feel discouraged to play. If they cannot be of support on a class they like, why play anymore?

This brings up my next point of effect: Server Population.

It is known that the server is in a rut in terms of its population. However my opponent fails to see that his suggestion will cause an effect to the population of the server as well. By eliminating Bacsojin Cards within the event, it will create discouragement to the MINORITY of support classes we currently have within our server. This discouragement will begin with veterans and soon lead to our new members. By the loss of priests, the major support class within Ragnarok Online, new members will see the reflection of a failed attempt of class balance. This will discourage new members to stay within the server and will create bad reviews on the server. We are not in the right state to afford the appeal of a minority guild group for the future population of the server.

I will now begin to refute my opponents ideas of his reasoning.

My opponent suggests that a guild full of defenders will be enough to subdue the attacking guild. This is not true. You are forgetting that the Guardian stone contains 150,000,000HP. If this suggestion were to play out it will not go well for the defending guild. Have you ever tried to divide 150,000,000 from 777? I will tell you. It takes 193,051 hits from a 777 Sanctuary to fully heal the Guardian stone and 386,101 hits to fully heal the 300,000,000HP Emperium. How is it justified when a Gunslinger uses desperado with AT LEAST 10,000 a hit of 10 hits (100,000 damage) is attacking the Guardian Stone or Emperium with a 777 Sanctuary (that has a healing delay)? Just because a guild has defenders it does not mean the guild can completely stop an attacking guild, with the same amount of players, from attacking the Guardian Stone/Emperium. My opponent refuses to bring up the number difference of damage to healing because I declare that my opponent is bias for the attacking guild.

I would have more to say but at this exact moment I'm tired and I've made my main ideas come across.

So to end this, here is my suggestion:

To satisfy both sides, the support classes and the attacking guild I suggest that Bacsojin cards should not be able to stack four times. I suggest that the limit the Bacsojin cards to be stacks is 2-3 times. This is lower the amount of heal, giving an ease to the attacking guild to their ideas of a challenging WoE and it will not discourage the minority of our support class players.

Thank you for your time.

Stop posting here, this issue has been resolved.

Sorry but it is not resolved and should not be resolved until everyone is satisfied or at least has had a mutual understanding of the matter. Please take your insecurity some place else.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Lily~