Guardian Stones

[Perishable]

With all due respect, I don't attend WoE 2.0 because I have work every Fridays and I don't need any feedback related to that. Although, I understand the concept of War of Emperium and 2.0. In my opinion, I really don't think Bacsojin or some of the inputs in this topic is the problem. Here's my question, did one of the Guardian Stones break last Friday on WoE 2.0?

[Perishable]

Okay. I went around asking people that attended WoE 2.0 last Friday and they said none of the Guardian Stones were broken. Not once. Wasn't skills enabled on the stones? How come it hasn't broken yet? Bacsojin is not the problem. Healing is part of Ragnarok. No matter if the stones were on Sanctuary, the amount of skills and classes spamming at the stones should pierce it. Sanctuary can't heal all of the damage that was taken. I think the problem is the guardian defense. If you don't know, it's the Investment in Defense of the castle. Only Guild Leaders have access and invest it twice a day. This Increases your castle's defense when you invest in it. Since it's under beta testing still and it could still be buggy. I think the problem is that It might of caused all the damage to be 1. I know some of you might argue and say that "how come it broke before then" That's because the defense wasn't 100. The commercial growth gets up to 100 before the castle's defense. But I could be wrong, though I think genesis should take this into consideration test it out since he can see damage on his client and we can't. Edited January 21, 2012 by Perishable

[Perishable]

I might of misunderstood, I got more inputs from people. and I heard the skill "Heal" can be cast on it? That's another story now. That should be nullified. It's not even WoE anymore. It could be the skill Heal or The castle defense at 100. It had just reached it recently. It didn't break before because it wasn't at 100. Because there must be a problem, like all skills can be cast on it and stuff, how can it not be destroyed. Not even once. I support everyone's view on this so don't get me wrong.

[Xtopher]

I have been in one of the bigger guilds. and I certainly do know what I'm talking about. I'm not running around on a character watching. I normally do join the battle , yet today I didn't for 1 single reason. I wanted to be able to post here based on information gathered today and in the past. And yes you've known it. You've used it in the first few WoE 2.0's. Mark the word used not abused as you named it. As it's not a bug of any kind it cant be considered abuse in any way. It's there to be used.

Thought out and logical.. shutting down the main defence mechanism of WoE 2.0 almost entirely is not that thought out, neither is it logical. Maybe it's logical in your point of view because right now the heal makes you unable to take it, so you want to turn things around completely and make something that right now is easy to guard into something quite unguardable.

Seeing how long your devo paladins lasted during this WoE a champ could easily get off 5-10 asuras on the stone before one of them or both of them would die. In my examples I do have people defending. The problem is not a lot of you are able to survive as good as some of your geared players like Cole himself. This woe you were outnumbered and most likely outgeared based on average gear from each player. If you are able to recruit more players or gear more players up it wouldn't be as hard as it's now (specially not if they cant heal the stone and it just has boosted hp). Today digni had more people than usual and you cant expect to just walk over a guild that has way more members than you. You not being able to reach the stone is because of : 1 : you have less people and some of them are still undergeared. 2 : there is not a single bit of tactiques involved in your attacking, other then ecalling nearby. In the entire woe, I have maybe seen 1 land protector coming from your professors. This skill is highly essential when attacking a castle. Other than 1 or 2 LKs of your guild none focussed the stone everyone went after players instead. Dont try to change WoE 2.0 mechanisms just because you cant dominate a guild that had 3x your amount of members. o.o

No land protectors. No champs on the stones other than 1 single champ asuraing stone 2 while the rest of you was at stone 1 and focussing players. not the stone. [/font][/color][/size]

As for my fact. At our current rate normal emperiums during eu woe die once every 2minutes-3minutes. this is an average of our last 5 EU Woes. so this is a fact. based on numbers. if emps (that can be healed but cant be targetted for other skills) cant even be guarded. Then how on earth will anyone guard the guardian stone that will not be able to be healed properly but WILL be able to get targetted by any skill ? Yes WoE 2.0 has much more defenders, but much more attackers as well.

Bottom line my opinion :

I'm fine with removing the ability to heal the stone. But do increase it's max HP so it cant break within 2 minutes. These stones are needed for guardians and for the barricade they shouldn't be a 2 minute job. which they will be if their hp doesn't get boosted and they'll be unhealable.

First of all your information is wrong. I've never used heal on guardian stones/baracades in 2.0. Father Xtopher has never graced the WoE 2.0 castle with his presence so now I'm lead to believe you're simply making things up in order to argue with me. I've always played Gunslinger and Lord Knight in WoE 2.0. Feel free to ask any Bravery/Aggresive/Ghost member.

I'll keep calling it abuse. Abuse: (noun) a corrupt or improper practice or custom. I call it abuse because bacsojin heals (300-500k) weren't meant for this kind of usage.

Healing G-stones is not the main defense mechanism to WoE 2.0. If you REALLY feel that way you're simply narrow minded. Have you ever even played iRO WoE 2.0? Guardian stones go down pretty quickly. I'm sorry if you feel a stone that can't be healed is "unguardable". That's simply false. Both big guild on the server are capable of assigning 20-40 people to defending stones. This is more than enough defense.

Now, stop saying "your" and "our" when talking about the attacking and defending guilds. This only brings in biases. None of these guild are mine so stop referring to them as such. I'm making a none-biased suggestion and words like that only lead me to believe that you're biased. Who has what items isn't really relevant. The fact of the matter is that if a dominant guild abuses bacsojin heals it is simply impossible for any other guild to make any progress in WoE 2.0. Leave your biases at forum index or don't post in my topics.

As for land protector, the defending guild has a 5:1 professor ratio to the attacking guild. Yes, numbers make a difference. That's not what I'm here to talk about. The skill Heal is not effected by land protector

Next: as for your "fact". Euro WoE has always been a break-fest. No one applies serious defensive strategies until the last 2 minutes of WoE. I like how you fail to mention American WoE which has two castles at 25-30 econ. Defense works when applied properly. Lastly, I've said it before and I'll say it again: WoE 2.0 is NOT normal WoE. It is very different so stop comparing the two.

If you guys voted against what he said.

You need to come attend a WOE 2.0. I'm a member of Dignified and still think it's ridiculous how 2 guilds can't even manage to get by the first stone.

It is seriously seriously over-powered. All I gotta do is sit and devo the HP and they can heal it all day while the defense holds of the offense (easily especially since the stones are very hard to break and a 100 other reasons that have already been stated multiple times.)

Please if you have any sense get rid of heal on the stones. If it nerfs the HP class according to some people, so be it. But at the moment it's plain and simply said.

OVER POWERED.

+1 obv.

I'm really glad to see someone post who isn't controlled by their guild leader or biased out of greed or self interest. It seems to me that everyone in your guild would be bored out of their minds during WoE 2.0 with how easy it is to defend. All this guy has to do is throw devo on a priest, kick back and press the ygg button occasionally because more than likely no one can even make it to the stone to damage the priest/paladin.

halving the effect of basco seems to be half and half here.

I don't know if this is possible, but I still don't like this as a solution.

Please remember that I am doing this in the mercy and satisfaction of the server and I am not as narrow minded to succumb to such a challenging WoE.

False, you're doing this based off of selfish greed. I'll go on to explain this later.

I'd first like to bring up Point 1: The basis of WoE 2.0.

War of Emperium 2.0 was created by Gravity, the makers of Ragnarok Online to create a more challenging environment. It is Gravity, not the Administrators of fRO, that viewed 2.0 to be a more challenging WoE for the attacking guilds. Please note that it was Gravity that decided the structures of 2.0 to have two additional defenses made compared to the original WoE. It has been Gravity's intention to make it a challenge. As a lover of this game I have accepted this challenge. Have you not? You yourself say this to attack the system for means to make it easier. That is understandable and admirable. However, 2.0 has been up for over 2 months yet you bring this up now? I can't help but to question your underlying cause in doing this.

Second, in countless WoE 2.0s it was not an issue for the attacking guild to break the guardian stones. The only issue that was implied was the fact on the attacking guild failed to break BOTH guardian stones at once. Is this in the effects of the server? Let me break it down. As I play WoE 2.0 I would like to share the environment of WoE 2.0 to the masses. During WoE 2.0 the attacking guild has not yet ever failed to break at least one Guardian Stone per WoE. In fact, after the stone was reconstructed the attacking guild brutally murdered the newly erected stone. Once one stone was down, there is only one left. This gives an advantage to the defending guild. Where the entire defending guild defends the only Guardian Stone left. This challenges the attacking guild more than before when both stones were erected and where the defending guild was split. Now dear gamers, is this challenge to harsh for your liking? Maybe it might not always be the coding or the defense of a castle but the plans of the attacking guild.

True, WoE 2.0 was developed to be a challenge and it is a challenge. The root of the problem is something that was not implemented by gravity: bacsojin cards that heal for 300-500k when stacked. We scaled the HP of the stones/baracades/emp so that it would match the damage capacity on our server, however, the healing is scaled much higher than that. The healing is meant to give healers such as priest more usage but it has become imbalanced in WoE 2.0.

Next I will like to bring up the values of economics.

fRO is based on a "capitalism" idea of economy, in my views. To explain, fRO's Staff has no say in the prices of the items within the server. These prices are set by the populous, the people. Let us create an environment where WoE 2.0 cannot be defended well due to the changes my opponent, Xtopher, suggested. If any of my opponent's suggestions were to be acted upon, the defense will fall easily. This will create a higher chance of turn overs in terms of castle ownership. Not only will this create chaos during WoE 2.0 but it will also alter the pricing of the rare and much admired Gold Set. Please do not forget that in this server there is a maximum of 30,000 tokens within an account. What this shows the players of fRO that 30,000 tokens is the maximum amount of pay for either a product or service. Because the Gold Set will be harder to obtain and the maximum price is set at a certain amount, all other prices of the items in the server will plummet due to comparison. This will harm the self supporting economy created by the very people that are giving such unorganized suggestions.

Oh, you would like to speak about the server economics? Well, just to warn you... I have a bachelor's degree in Finance and Economics so you might want to tread softly. Our server economy does resemble that of a capitalist economy. However, you're wrong on a few of your key points. First of all the server staff DOES have some control over prices ingame. If you don't believe this then ask yourself: "Why doesn't forsaken kings armor ever cost more than 100 tokens?" The staff has put price ceilings on specific items when limit their value.

You completely contradicted yourself in that little post. You said the staff has no control over prices then say that the 30k cap (Which is put in by the staff) is the max price for any item.

Next, you say that losing the castle would be a detriment to the economy? I'm sorry but this is nothing but selfishness. Losing the castle spreads wealth among the player base. Instead of one elite group having a large income we spread it out. If more guild could gear up and try to take the castle they could have the chance of making some profit off of it. More players with more wealth = more trade = better overall economy. Elite group with more wealth = less trade = worse player economy. Yes, you will get more drops if you have 100 econ but those drops are not dispersed well. I would prefer to have other people have a chance of taking the castle to have a greater wealth dispersion in the server. If the rich elite guy manages to get a gold helm/emp he'll probably just prance around town showing it off. If the poorer guy manages to collect gold fragments...etc.. long enough to grab himself an emp/helm he'll probably trade it. You see that? Trade. Trade means a healthy economy.

Now I will be more explicit and detailed in terms of the current suggestion at hand: The expulsions of Bacsojin Cards in WoE 2.0.

This suggestions concerns me the most, where my opponent has suggested to expel the use of Bacsojin Cards within this event. I ask you to please stop and think about this more clearly. Have you ever thought to consider the effects of expelling the cards in the views of Priest-main members? By taking away Bacsojin cards completely you have stripped away their most important priority in the event. Please remember that Emperium is immune to heal, the only way to heal it is through Sanctuary. By taking away the cards you have forced a fellow player the keep 300,000,000HP Emperium with a 777 Sanctuary. Have you ever thought to consider the effects it will do on the total outcome? Or is it because my opponent is a breaker at heart, an attacker, that does not care for his supporting members? I can guarantee that the average damage a breaker does to an emperium is not less than 777 a hit. Also to remain on the case of my opponent, Guardian Stones. The Guardian Stones are neutral and are effected by Thanatos. An average hit from a geared player of any class is much more than a Heal of 12,000 without Bacsojins, nonetheless a 777 Sanctuary. This is plummet the defense of the castle, and worse of all the morale of Priest-main players.

Dear Xtopher, have you considered the damage difference to healing difference you are trying to imply? Or is this your bias goal? This could be expected to a player of fRO that doesn't main a support class. But then again how many fRO players main support classes anymore?

I'd like to turn your attention to the statistics of classes being made throughout the server. How often do you see a Priest anymore? A paladin? A creator? fRO has been striving to create class balance in order to appeal to everyone. Yet it is lately that the server is continually lacking in support class players. This reflects how "Class balanced" we are. Yet still, my opponent wishes to sweep these classes under the rug. To rid of such classes. From the statistics above, if this suggestion were to be acted on, the minority of our support classes will feel discouraged to play. If they cannot be of support on a class they like, why play anymore?

Wow, I seriously laugh at this. First of all I am one of the High Priest class biggest advocates. I've mained priest for years. In-fact, it was my suggestions and testing that lead to the bacsojin buff. To put it bluntly: If I hadn't made my suggestions or testing the current state of bacsojin card would probably not even exist. So, I think if anyone is qualified to suggest a nerf to them it is ME. Maybe you should take a quick look at the history of the class that you feel I have no experience with. WoE 2.0 has enough defensive capacity without being healed for 300-500k per heal. It is a shame that the emperium won't benefit from sanctuary but it is a necessary loss.

This brings up my next point of effect: Server Population.

It is known that the server is in a rut in terms of its population. However my opponent fails to see that his suggestion will cause an effect to the population of the server as well. By eliminating Bacsojin Cards within the event, it will create discouragement to the MINORITY of support classes we currently have within our server. This discouragement will begin with veterans and soon lead to our new members. By the loss of priests, the major support class within Ragnarok Online, new members will see the reflection of a failed attempt of class balance. This will discourage new members to stay within the server and will create bad reviews on the server. We are not in the right state to afford the appeal of a minority guild group for the future population of the server.

So, you think that keeping the WoE 2.0 castle completely invincible to all attacks will help the server population? No. Players were VERY excited about WoE 2.0 coming to our server. Now any guild that dares to attack the castle is just completely shut down. They do nothing but waste YGGs and time. Eventually people will get frustrated with attacking and bored of defending and will be less active. They'll leave. Any new players will walk into WoE 2.0 and realize how one sided it is and probably leave the server. New players already have it hard enough... If a guild of 30 players can't break one stone what chance does any smaller guild have?

New players will still be able to enjoy bacsojins outside of WoE 2.0. The only people that would be at a disadvantage are the ones abusing it now.

I will now begin to refute my opponents ideas of his reasoning.

My opponent suggests that a guild full of defenders will be enough to subdue the attacking guild. This is not true. You are forgetting that the Guardian stone contains 150,000,000HP. If this suggestion were to play out it will not go well for the defending guild. Have you ever tried to divide 150,000,000 from 777? I will tell you. It takes 193,051 hits from a 777 Sanctuary to fully heal the Guardian stone and 386,101 hits to fully heal the 300,000,000HP Emperium. How is it justified when a Gunslinger uses desperado with AT LEAST 10,000 a hit of 10 hits (100,000 damage) is attacking the Guardian Stone or Emperium with a 777 Sanctuary (that has a healing delay)? Just because a guild has defenders it does not mean the guild can completely stop an attacking guild, with the same amount of players, from attacking the Guardian Stone/Emperium. My opponent refuses to bring up the number difference of damage to healing because I declare that my opponent is bias for the attacking guild.

I'm not forgetting the stones HP. In-fact I even listed the HP in my first post. It is sad that sanctuary will be made useless but it is the only option in the interest of fairness. By the way: desperado isn't always 10 hits. I believe it ranges from 1-10 hits randomly per use. Next, gunslingers have some of the lowest HP and tank capacity in game. They can't wear sacreds and fsoldier and spam thus they are easy to kill. Most of them have about 200-235k hp and will die from defending guilds easily. They can't afford to wear GTB so if they don't have devotion they'll get squished by mages in the blink of an eye. The differences between heal capacity and damage capacity in on guardian stones is too great. The attackers can hardly make it to the stone and if they do their damage gets healed up fairly quickly though 300-500k heals.

I would have more to say but at this exact moment I'm tired and I've made my main ideas come across.

So to end this, here is my suggestion:

To satisfy both sides, the support classes and the attacking guild I suggest that Bacsojin cards should not be able to stack four times. I suggest that the limit the Bacsojin cards to be stacks is 2-3 times. This is lower the amount of heal, giving an ease to the attacking guild to their ideas of a challenging WoE and it will not discourage the minority of our support class players.

No, this nerfs the class outside of WoE 2.0 which shows how greedy and self centered you really are. You don't care about priests. You care about your econ and easy defense. You speak as if you want to help the support classes then make a counter suggestion that would nerf them even outside of WoE 2.0.

You can keep making self centered posts and asking your guild members to +1 it but it doesn't make it right. Anyone with even a moderate IQ can see how selfish you are.

I might of misunderstood, I got more inputs from people. and I heard the skill "Heal" can be cast on it? That's another story now. That should be nullified. It's not even WoE anymore. It could be the skill Heal or The castle defense at 100. It had just reached it recently. It didn't break before because it wasn't at 100. Because there must be a problem, like all skills can be cast on it and stuff, how can it not be destroyed. Not even once. I support everyone's view on this so don't get me wrong.

Yea Som, the problem is the skill "Heal". I take it you didn't read most of the thread before you posted... LOL.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Xtopher

[Perishable]

Yeah I noticed. I thought the Heal from Sanctuary. So I had to go back and read more. That's crazy.. But don't you need kiels to spam fast with heal? How do you even replaced Bacsojin with kiels? I mean, if I'm taking hits, I can spam free with skills but it does require some kiels.

[Shadi]

First of all your information is wrong. I've never used heal on guardian stones/baracades in 2.0. Father Xtopher has never graced the WoE 2.0 castle with his presence so now I'm lead to believe you're simply making things up in order to argue with me. I've always played Gunslinger and Lord Knight in WoE 2.0. Feel free to ask any Bravery/Aggresive/Ghost member.

The very first 3 WoE 2.0's you played your priest. And used the heal skill on the second guardian stone. Your orange priest called Father Xtopher. I'm not making things up. yet you're allowed to keep denying things to try and safe your own arguement.

Healing G-stones is not the main defense mechanism to WoE 2.0. If you REALLY feel that way you're simply narrow minded. Have you ever even played iRO WoE 2.0? Guardian stones go down pretty quickly. I'm sorry if you feel a stone that can't be healed is "unguardable". That's simply false. Both big guild on the server are capable of assigning 20-40 people to defending stones. This is more than enough defense.

Healing the stones isn't. Keeping the stones up through defence and healing it is. It's not narrow minded it's the way WoE 2.0 is supposed to be. And yes I've played WoE 2.0 on iRO before. Simply claiming that all my statements are false does not win you any arguement. The stone will break very easily without the ability to heal it. it's not a "false" statement as you call it. This stone is EASIER to kill than the emperium aura if it can not be healed.

Now, stop saying "your" and "our" when talking about the attacking and defending guilds. This only brings in biases. None of these guild are mine so stop referring to them as such. I'm making a none-biased suggestion and words like that only lead me to believe that you're biased. Who has what items isn't really relevant. The fact of the matter is that if a dominant guild abuses bacsojin heals it is simply impossible for any other guild to make any progress in WoE 2.0. Leave your biases at forum index or don't post in my topics.

Omg Chris.. Isn't it obvious that with referring to your I mean the guild you are in. Aside from that I said "our" once referring to a current rate on the SERVER. How on earth can this be biased in any single way. You really are just trying to make things up now to make people that disagree with you look bad. Who has what items is VERY relevant as you are expecting to easily be able to take a castle from a guild that has 3 times your amount of players. I have every right to post in your topics and none of my posts have been bias. They've been based on experience and data collected from the passed few WoE's. If you can't handle the truth dont ask for opinions by making a suggestion topic.

As for land protector, the defending guild has a 5:1 professor ratio to the attacking guild. Yes, numbers make a difference. That's not what I'm here to talk about. The skill Heal is not effected by land protector

Spamming the land protector skill isn't that hard. as replacing it is way faster than removing it. And obviously the land protector is not there to disable the heal skill. it's there to make your fellow members immune to many area of effect skills. Thus survive longer, thus be able to do more damage on the stone, because according to you that's the biggest problem you have right now. Not being able to reach the stone. Well use some tactiques and you will be able to. The fact that you didn't even link the land protector with survivability already showed the lack of thought in your basic attacking plan. All you focus on is the healing spell, disregarding everything else. There's MANY other factors playing along but you're so fixated on the fact that they can heal that you seem to forget everything else.

I like how you fail to mention American WoE which has two castles at 25-30 econ.

Alright I'll mention American woe. Today you were not able to guard with your full guild vs 10 attackers. This is on the emperium. Now imagine if all attackers could use skills on the stone/emp. That's right it would've broken within a minute as the emp broke in about 2 minutes without skills. But this is the emp , which can not be hit by skills and can be healed with sanc yet you couldn't guard it while you had a lot more people in the emp room. And still you try to claim guarding it without the ability to heal it will be easy.

I'm really glad to see someone post who isn't controlled by their guild leader or biased out of greed or self interest. It seems to me that everyone in your guild would be bored out of their minds during WoE 2.0 with how easy it is to defend. All this guy has to do is throw devo on a priest, kick back and press the ygg button occasionally because more than likely no one can even make it to the stone to damage the priest/paladin.

I'm not posting here for any guild leader, neither do I have any self interest with WoE 2.0 at this moment. I'm here for the sake of balance, so your statement is once again bias. You keep on claiming other people are bias while you just made the biggest bias comment of all. Saying that all people that do not agree with your huge nerf/change are here for their own interest or for their guild leader. That comment is based on what ? Every person in here has their own reason to post. including yourself. You say you're making this in the sake of balance yet you're not respecting any opinion that is different than yours. If you wouldn't be bias you would be looking for an option between the two extremes. The two extremes being disabling bacsojin/ leaving things as they are. But instead you are asking for what benefits your current guild the most. So cut the crap with calling people bias as you obviously have your own reasons to make this topic and not even try to get to an agreement with both parties.

No, this nerfs the class outside of WoE 2.0 which shows how greedy and self centered you really are. You don't care about priests. You care about your econ and easy defense. You speak as if you want to help the support classes then make a counter suggestion that would nerf them even outside of WoE 2.0.

You can keep making self centered posts and asking your guild members to +1 it but it doesn't make it right. Anyone with even a moderate IQ can see how selfish you are.

I kinda wonder, whats the use of a class if you cant use it to it's full potential at the main server events ? Disabling bacsojins in WoE 2.0 THAT shows that you dont care about priests at all. And that all you care about is making something that's supposed to be hard into something thats done very easily.

Yeah I noticed. I thought the Heal from Sanctuary. So I had to go back and read more. That's crazy.. But don't you need kiels to spam fast with heal? How do you even replaced Bacsojin with kiels? I mean, if I'm taking hits, I can spam free with skills but it does require some kiels.

The heal skill has a 1second after skill delay. Adding kiels has literally 0 use for it because the sprite of casting heal takes longer than a second. Heal can only be spammed really fast while being autoattacked. Unless you get autoattacked your spam will be slow to regular as the heal delay consists of sprite delay more than skill delay. Edited January 22, 2012 by Shadi

[supream]

my god. you guys should all follow shadis sig. to much reading. i just dont know how its going to be with 777 heals on the emp if u guys do get by the defenses.

[Spill]

I know how will this argument stop, remove 2.0. XD

or add another woe map LOL!

[supream]

I know how will this argument stop, remove 2.0. XD

or add another woe map LOL!

u know how many people would leave.

[Xtopher]

The very first 3 WoE 2.0's you played your priest. And used the heal skill on the second guardian stone. Your orange priest called Father Xtopher. I'm not making things up. yet you're allowed to keep denying things to try and safe your own arguement.

Well at this point it's my word against yours with no proof either way... Soooo I'll fall back on the classic gaming rule: Screen shots or it didn't happen.

Healing the stones isn't. Keeping the stones up through defence and healing it is. It's not narrow minded it's the way WoE 2.0 is supposed to be. And yes I've played WoE 2.0 on iRO before. Simply claiming that all my statements are false does not win you any arguement. The stone will break very easily without the ability to heal it. it's not a "false" statement as you call it. This stone is EASIER to kill than the emperium aura if it can not be healed.

WoE 2.0 isn't supposed to be everyone cluster-fucked at one guardian stone and still not breaking it by the end of WoE... I don't know what you're talking about.

Omg Chris.. Isn't it obvious that with referring to your I mean the guild you are in. Aside from that I said "our" once referring to a current rate on the SERVER. How on earth can this be biased in any single way. You really are just trying to make things up now to make people that disagree with you look bad. Who has what items is VERY relevant as you are expecting to easily be able to take a castle from a guild that has 3 times your amount of players. I have every right to post in your topics and none of my posts have been bias. They've been based on experience and data collected from the passed few WoE's. If you can't handle the truth dont ask for opinions by making a suggestion topic.

I'm not posting here for any guild leader, neither do I have any self interest with WoE 2.0 at this moment. I'm here for the sake of balance, so your statement is once again bias. You keep on claiming other people are bias while you just made the biggest bias comment of all. Saying that all people that do not agree with your huge nerf/change are here for their own interest or for their guild leader. That comment is based on what ? Every person in here has their own reason to post. including yourself. You say you're making this in the sake of balance yet you're not respecting any opinion that is different than yours. If you wouldn't be bias you would be looking for an option between the two extremes. The two extremes being disabling bacsojin/ leaving things as they are. But instead you are asking for what benefits your current guild the most. So cut the crap with calling people bias as you obviously have your own reasons to make this topic and not even try to get to an agreement with both parties.

I just don't like the fact that you keep saying "your". I consider both prospectives. Honestly, I have nothing to gain from this suggestion getting accepted or rejected. I have everything I need and I hardly play anymore. It really sucks that sanctuary will have to be nerfed in 2.0 for my suggestion to be accepted but it's a necessary sacrifice. I generally don't have to make anyone look bad... Most posters do that for themselves... on both sides. You say you lack biases. If you TRULY want to have no biases and you want a good look at both sides you should try joining the current attacking guild to see how entirely unnecessary and imbalanced healing the stones is. I'm pushing this suggestion because I'm the one who got bacsojins to where they are and I feel if anyone has the right to suggest a nerf on them it should be the one who got them buffed to begin with.

Spamming the land protector skill isn't that hard. as replacing it is way faster than removing it. And obviously the land protector is not there to disable the heal skill. it's there to make your fellow members immune to many area of effect skills. Thus survive longer, thus be able to do more damage on the stone, because according to you that's the biggest problem you have right now. Not being able to reach the stone. Well use some tactiques and you will be able to. The fact that you didn't even link the land protector with survivability already showed the lack of thought in your basic attacking plan. All you focus on is the healing spell, disregarding everything else. There's MANY other factors playing along but you're so fixated on the fact that they can heal that you seem to forget everything else.

Regretfully not every guild can afford 5-10 professors every WoE. The defending guild, as I've said, outnumbers the attacking guild's professors 5:1. Spamming magnetic earth is pretty much useless as it will instantly be moved and the professor will probably die shortly. I'm aware of how magnetic earth helps when attacking but it simply isn't viable for the attacking guilds current state so it's not a huge factor.

Alright I'll mention American woe. Today you were not able to guard with your full guild vs 10 attackers. This is on the emperium. Now imagine if all attackers could use skills on the stone/emp. That's right it would've broken within a minute as the emp broke in about 2 minutes without skills. But this is the emp , which can not be hit by skills and can be healed with sanc yet you couldn't guard it while you had a lot more people in the emp room. And still you try to claim guarding it without the ability to heal it will be easy.

Yes, Dignified took an emp in American WoE with 10 attackers. However, for whatever reason, there were only approximately 10 or so people on the defending emperium at the time. The defending guild was highly unprepared and unorganized. They simply didn't expect a last minute rush and were left standing there with their pants down. This is NOT the case in WoE 2.0. Everyone is always at the stones defending. There's no reason to leave them and go elsewhere (there's no alternative castles to try and break in the meantime).

I kinda wonder, whats the use of a class if you cant use it to it's full potential at the main server events ? Disabling bacsojins in WoE 2.0 THAT shows that you dont care about priests at all. And that all you care about is making something that's supposed to be hard into something thats done very easily.

No one here should be questioning how much I care about the priest class. I've defended them throughout my stay here on this server and I've made various suggestions for changes to the class. The fact of the matter is this: I know when my class is OP. I'm not one of these kids that wants to run around OP all day taking advantage of items/card that are imbalanced in certain situations. Priest heals are simply too high for our WoE 2.0. I'm not trying to make anything easy. I'm trying to take away an imbalance that I myself have made possible.

@Perishable:

You don't need kiels to spam heal. You can spam it at a set rate due to sprite delay... If you're being it the sprite delay is eliminated and you can spam it endlessly regardless of kiels. Priests are very likely to be hit while defending (they stand very close to or right on top of the stone so they take splash damage from all directions). There are macros that allow you to spam it at an illegitimate rate without being hit... but I won't even get into that shit.

Now, it's kind of obvious to me that we're just talking in circles. I'm not going to post again unless someone brings up a new and thought out point. I've said pretty much all that can be said. I'll let the decision makers take it from here.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Xtopher

[Lily~]

Under short and unrelated notice I have chosen to distant myself from this server. Due to my leave, I resign my stand on this situation.

In short:

Do whatever you want, I'm out. :D PEACE!

[Perishable]

@Perishable:

You don't need kiels to spam heal. You can spam it at a set rate due to sprite delay... If you're being it the sprite delay is eliminated and you can spam it endlessly regardless of kiels. Priests are very likely to be hit while defending (they stand very close to or right on top of the stone so they take splash damage from all directions). There are macros that allow you to spam it at an illegitimate rate without being hit... but I won't even get into that shit.

Now, it's kind of obvious to me that we're just talking in circles. I'm not going to post again unless someone brings up a new and throughout point. I've said pretty much all that can be said. I'll let the decision makers take it from here.

Cool Story bro, tell it again. So you're saying you can spam without kiels? You need kiels when being hit to be able to spam 10 heals in 3 seconds. I mean, I need it. So I don't know what you're talking about.

[Xtopher]

Cool Story bro, tell it again. So you're saying you can spam without kiels? You need kiels when being hit to be able to spam 10 heals in 3 seconds. I mean, I need it. So I don't know what you're talking about.

Kiels don't effect heal spam rate.

You don't need kiels to spam heal quickly while being hit. The skill isn't limited by delay, it's limited by sprite movement.

[Perishable]

Obviously I know that but you can't spam as fast without kiels even though taking hits that makes your character frames delay free.

[.Kyuubi.]

^{The heal skill on its own has a 1sec cast delay without kiels, the actual sprite movement makes the kiels worthless on priest because it takes longer for the prite movement than it does for the cast delay. So say you have 1-2 Kiel on and 2-3 bascos(depending on how many you choose to wear obviously), it would make you spam like a boss while being hit ofcourse} Edited January 25, 2012 by .Kyuubi.

[Perishable]

That I understand. Yes, that's right.

[Genesis]

We've disabled Bacsojin Cards on the map schg_cas01. Any equipment with Bacsojin Cards in it will be unequipable. We will test it this friday to see how it unfolds. We can always revert it back to how it was previously if it doesn't work.

[Spill]

O.O pro talks.

Another Suggestion: The stones also need to be made larger. Maybe use a different sprite for them entirely if you can't make the actual stone larger. It is incredible difficult for anyone to click when you're weeding through 30 defenders.

this is true,so how about the size of guardian stones?

[Drax]

they are working on finding a replacement