HealHard Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 The way i see it: th guild with like 10 priests online + some devoers and champs will be totally unbeatable. 8 ppl healing the stones, 2 ppl lexing attakers, champs asura them. 20 ppl would be able to hold the 2.0 infinitely. Just because bascojins are overpowered on our server. thats abusing card effects imo. Emp could be healed only with sanctuary and thats why basco gives that much bonus to that skill atm. Why the direct heal was buffed is still a mystery to me. We can leave things as they are if we change basco effect back to normal for direct healing. p.s. bascos were changed before 2.0 was introduced and was supposed to help guilds defend normal WOE castles. now we can face the fact its OP and abusable in such situation. so we should consider reworking basco once more.
Beautiful Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 The way i see it: th guild with like 10 priests online + some devoers and champs will be totally unbeatable. 8 ppl healing the stones, 2 ppl lexing attakers, champs asura them. 20 ppl would be able to hold the 2.0 infinitely. Just because bascojins are overpowered on our server. thats abusing card effects imo. Emp could be healed only with sanctuary and thats why basco gives that much bonus to that skill atm. Why the direct heal was buffed is still a mystery to me. We can leave things as they are if we change basco effect back to normal for direct healing. p.s. bascos were changed before 2.0 was introduced and was supposed to help guilds defend normal WOE castles. now we can face the fact its OP and abusable in such situation. so we should consider reworking basco once more. what makes 2.0 any different in a sense of defending? so what you are saying is defending normal WOE castles is more important then 2.0 Castle. last time i checked a reason for 2.0 was to encourage guilds to team up and defend for a better prize. and to stay on topic of this. i dont think the only thing i would 100% agree on is New Sprite for the Stone because i am in the guild that currently has the stone and it is impossible to see. for everyone else complaining about the castle. my understanding is. YOU Ghost/Bravery had the castle for a good ammount of time and was able to hold and defend to bring the eco. this was before they continued to tweek the castle and the small details. im begining to think that a reason you put this is purely because you are mad you can't take it back? and someone stated that Doing Heals go up to 500k and that it could be abused. here is what i am thinking if you cant see the G.Stone in all of the Chaos in what makes you think we could see the stones to heal it? lol
Drax Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) uh are u retarded nikko? lol its much easier for the defending guild to target anything like the stones/cades/emp anything, you don't have 30 emblems crouding around a small little target and even with all you're breakneck the thing saving you're stone is being able to heal it for a million HP in 2 seconds. and btw speaking of staying on topic why don't you do the same aswell instead of trying to flame/troll if you don't plan on bringing a valid point then stfu Edited January 18, 2012 by Drax
Xtopher Posted January 18, 2012 Author Report Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Ok, I've had enough with this Ghost/Bravery/Aggressive/Dignified bullshit. This isn't a thread for everyone to flame off on specific guilds. Stop it. Is it fucking impossible for you people to look at a balancing issue impartially? It shouldn't matter what guild your in. I guess everyone on this server is so selfish that they'll only look for what benefits them and what enemy they can screw over. Get back on topic. I don't care what guild you're in. The question remains whether or not this is balanced. Is a priest or multiple priests heal bombing the guardian stones for 300-500k while they're being fully defended balanced? Edited January 18, 2012 by Xtopher
Dudu Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 I agree with the Basco nerf and the size increase for the G.Stones. In 2.0, the guild that has the castle, gets basically unlimited recalls, so like if a priest dies, he can just go back to the same spot and heal it again. Plus with all this wars going on, trust me, i wont aim for a priest, i rather aim for a champ or a prof, so they leave Priest in the back healing for 100000m a minute and the Stones/Emp. Like Eugene said, the Bascos were redone before 2.0, now that we have it, a re-work should be totally consider. And remember the littlle fact that we get this new skill spammer that basically spams ur shet 3 times, put that and 4 bascos, you will be healing 1m in less than 2 seconds?!?
supream Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 anythings possible. before we got the castle for the extended period of time we have it now, we broke through defenses and got the castle, but the next week after that we lost it again. last time i checked we have 2 priests in the guild, and one of them isnt even fully geared. from what i observe in woe is that we kill most of the attacks before they get the chance to do any real damage.
Beautiful Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 I agree with the Basco nerf and the size increase for the G.Stones. In 2.0, the guild that has the castle, gets basically unlimited recalls, so like if a priest dies, he can just go back to the same spot and heal it again. Plus with all this wars going on, trust me, i wont aim for a priest, i rather aim for a champ or a prof, so they leave Priest in the back healing for 100000m a minute and the Stones/Emp. Like Eugene said, the Bascos were redone before 2.0, now that we have it, a re-work should be totally consider. And remember the littlle fact that we get this new skill spammer that basically spams ur shet 3 times, put that and 4 bascos, you will be healing 1m in less than 2 seconds?!? what i dont get is what makes 2.0 objective any different then normal woe? i agree on the bigger sprite it will make clicking the emp and stuff alot easier for every guild so that i agree on. but for the basco exactly how much is the max? like the max amount the emp could be healed. so is 500k a cap? nothing could go over 500k? if you nerf basco then tbh what is the real point of a priest in woe? lex is useful but it doesnt guarentee anything. priest were always used to heal and sanc during woe. so if you nerf it completely then you leave the priest in the dust. it will be to the point were a priest isnt needed during woe. if you want a nerf then reduce the heal to something where priest still feel useful in woe. if the heal caps at 500k and everyone heals for 500k then maybe change it to 100k or something so defending is still just as fun as trying to break the castle. if healing wasnt a problem in normal woe how would it be a bigger problem in 2.0?
Xtopher Posted January 18, 2012 Author Report Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) anythings possible. before we got the castle for the extended period of time we have it now, we broke through defenses and got the castle, but the next week after that we lost it again. last time i checked we have 2 priests in the guild, and one of them isnt even fully geared. from what i observe in woe is that we kill most of the attacks before they get the chance to do any real damage. You contradict yourself in your posts. First you say that breaking the guardian stones is simple and attackers just have to run in and attack the stones while ignoring defenders, then you say most attackers die before they do any real damage. The later part of that is true and only further explains why healing the stone should be removed. If they can't even do a lot of damage before dying why do you need the ability to spam 300-500k heals on the stone? what i dont get is what makes 2.0 objective any different then normal woe? i agree on the bigger sprite it will make clicking the emp and stuff alot easier for every guild so that i agree on. but for the basco exactly how much is the max? like the max amount the emp could be healed. so is 500k a cap? nothing could go over 500k? if you nerf basco then tbh what is the real point of a priest in woe? lex is useful but it doesnt guarentee anything. priest were always used to heal and sanc during woe. so if you nerf it completely then you leave the priest in the dust. it will be to the point were a priest isnt needed during woe. if you want a nerf then reduce the heal to something where priest still feel useful in woe. if the heal caps at 500k and everyone heals for 500k then maybe change it to 100k or something so defending is still just as fun as trying to break the castle. if healing wasnt a problem in normal woe how would it be a bigger problem in 2.0? You can't use the skill heal on emps so it's not a problem in normal WoE. You can, however, use the skill on guardian stones/baracades in WoE 2.0. Bacsojin cards themselves don't need to be nerfed. They're fine in any other circumstance than the guardian stone heal bombing. The stones just need to be changed so that you can not use the skill heal on them. As far as I know there is no way to limit the amount healed per heal on a specific target (the stones). You would have to nerf bacsojins as a whole, which isn't necessary. I really hope you guys can post without biases. Don't think about what is best for you or your friends/guild. Think about what is fair and balanced. Edited January 18, 2012 by Xtopher
Drax Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 the main point that makes it imbalanced is that you can use the HEAL skill, there is no problem using sanc on it because you can only have one sanctuary down at a time and can heal about 37k a tick, heal is spammable and really doesn't have a cap so the difference is in euro,american you can only sanc the emp not use the heal skill on it.
Beautiful Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) You can't use the skill heal on emps so it's not a problem in normal WoE. You can, however, use the skill on guardian stones/baracades in WoE 2.0. Bacsojin cards themselves don't need to be nerfed. They're fine in any other circumstance than the guardian stone heal bombing. The stones just need to be changed so that you can not use the skill heal on them. As far as I know there is no way to limit the amount healed per heal on a specific target (the stones). You would have to nerf bacsojins as a whole, which isn't necessary. I really hope you guys can post without biases. Don't think about what is best for you or your friends/guild. Think about what is fair and balanced. so healing only works on stones and not the emp? i guess it makes the post easier to understand. i thought you were just talking about healing as a whole. i guess if it only works on stones if this happens would it make sense to have the rebuild cool downs lowered? since i think they made it longer since at first they were to fast and could be build fairly quickly. but if you take off heal then the stones would be prone to breaking faster. but i see your side and it makes sense. but this woe is only a beta so mehh. BTW:i think the heal skill should be used still. but the heal should be lowered, its a skill used for 2.0 so taking it off wouldnt be fair. but having 500k isnt as fair as well. Edited January 18, 2012 by Beautiful
Xtopher Posted January 18, 2012 Author Report Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) so healing only works on stones and not the emp? i guess it makes the post easier to understand. i thought you were just talking about healing as a whole. i guess if it only works on stones if this happens would it make sense to have the rebuild cool downs lowered? since i think they made it longer since at first they were to fast and could be build fairly quickly. but if you take off heal then the stones would be prone to breaking faster. but i see your side and it makes sense. but this woe is only a beta so mehh. BTW:i think the heal skill should be used still. but the heal should be lowered, its a skill used for 2.0 so taking it off wouldnt be fair. but having 500k isnt as fair as well. There is no way to lower it other than nerfing bacsojins entirely. It's all or nothing. There is no way to cap the healing done on the stone per heal. Also, why would cooldown time be lowered? It's been shown over and over again by multiple guilds that you can defend the castle without the heal strategy. With 20-40 people defending the stones it takes a long time to break them, then you have to break the next one in 10 minutes. If you can even manage this you still have to break the baracades. WoE 2.0 is balanced without the healing. No adjustment needs to be made to repair times. People seem to think that if the guardian stones break then you lose the castle... that's simply not true. You have to break a stone, then break a second one within 10 minutes, then break 3 baracade walls to ever even get to the emp. By the time you make it to the 2nd-3rd baracade the guardian stones should be being reconstructed. Guardian stones are supposed to be a piece of the big defensive picture of WoE 2.0, not the entire defense themselves. Edited January 18, 2012 by Xtopher
supream Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 just target the classes that cause the biggest problems for you instead of just attacking everyone you see. that's how we got it from you the first time. and get more champs to asura the stones and barricades. if i recall when you guys had it last me, and juan, but mainly me broke one stone and the barricades going to the emp in 6 min. you guys should remember this.u see that chris? it says attack the classes that cause the biggest problems not just attack the stones.
.Kyuubi. Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 u see that chris? it says attack the classes that cause the biggest problems not just attack the stones. Let me break it down for you incase you're feeling a little slow. We focus your Gun Slingers, Priests, Profs and maybe Champs. Gunslingers and Priests are devo'd by paladins, so we burn his yggs until he dies or messes up his ygg spam, the priests and GS die next and we have a bit of leway for stone damage. About 15 seconds later the priests speed warp to the front of the castle, click the flag, click another flag and are ontop of the stone yet again. Another 2 seconds after that any damage done to the stones is instantly shut down due to heals. Did you see what I did there mike? Did you see that? You're stupid....
supream Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 Let me break it down for you incase you're feeling a little slow. We focus your Gun Slingers, Priests, Profs and maybe Champs. Gunslingers and Priests are devo'd by paladins, so we burn his yggs until he dies or messes up his ygg spam, the priests and GS die next and we have a bit of leway for stone damage. About 15 seconds later the priests speed warp to the front of the castle, click the flag, click another flag and are ontop of the stone yet again. Another 2 seconds after that any damage done to the stones is instantly shut down due to heals. Did you see what I did there mike? Did you see that? You're stupid.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKVTmx1zos8&feature=related
Nelly Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKVTmx1zos8&feature=related :x +1 stupid.. 1
Genesis Posted January 20, 2012 Report Posted January 20, 2012 If the defending guild can heal the emp using the stone combinations (how its suppose to be), I suppose we can make the guardian stone unhealable through the skill or something along those lines. Making it undead wouldn't change the damage calculations too much (level 1).
supream Posted January 20, 2012 Report Posted January 20, 2012 wouldnt making it undead property make it unhealable?
Genesis Posted January 20, 2012 Report Posted January 20, 2012 wouldnt making it undead property make it unhealable?It would hurt the emp instead of healing it. Also, we can just make bacsojin cards not work in WoE 2.0 (exclusively in WoE 2.0). *Edit* Making it undead simply won't work. There are a large number of factors not being considered here that would cause serious issues. The best suggestion would be to simply disable Bacsojin Cards in WoE 2.0.
supream Posted January 20, 2012 Report Posted January 20, 2012 if that happens will sanc go back to 777 again? or was that just a bug from a while back.
Bishop Posted January 20, 2012 Report Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) There is no way to heal the stone with combinations only rebuild them after they broke completely. This can only be done 8 minutes after the stone broke. Without the ability to heal the stones both stones will break way too easily. The stone is weaker than the emp because it can be killed way faster due to the fact that skills work on them, being able to heal it is crucial. and then there's a 8 minute delay to rebuild it after it broke. @supreamus. Yes if that happens sanc will go down to 777 inside the WoE 2.0 map. Edited January 20, 2012 by Bishop
Drax Posted January 20, 2012 Report Posted January 20, 2012 the stone WON'T break easily because theres 60 people defending it
supream Posted January 20, 2012 Report Posted January 20, 2012 If there's no way to heal the stones they will eventually break. and If you somehow manage to get to the emp there's no way to heal it with 777 heals
Encyclopedia Posted January 20, 2012 Report Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) If the defending guild can heal the emp using the stone combinations (how its suppose to be), I suppose we can make the guardian stone unhealable through the skill or something along those lines. Making it undead wouldn't change the damage calculations too much (level 1). You can't heal the stone until it breaks. You shouldn't nerf Priests in WoE. The guardian stone can be hit by magic, asura strike, etc. It can take 150m damage in under 30 seconds if undefended. What are priests supposed to do otherwise? All other skills a priest utilizes are not High Priest-exclusive. Are you to remove Sanctuary from being used to heal the emperium as well? Just make the stone bigger. No one complains about priests and the emps because it's visible. P.S. It's not like it's impossible to break a stone, even with a priest using heal. I saw a lot of posts here about 'what if 3-5 priests bombard it with heal?!?!?' What the hell. No guild has 3-5 active priests, let alone ones that will dedicate there entire time to healing the Guardian Stone. That would take too much manpower away from actually trying to kill people. Why don't people utilize Magnetic Earth+use team work. The maximum a priest can heal is around 450k. I'm sure a 3m+ asura strike can out damage that people.. put yourselves in the place of those you try to critic. Maybe you should stop trying to look for quick fixes and realize your strategies/team work isn't in check. A group of 3 people can break a castle in normal WoE when it's being defended by 30+ people, yet no one complains about reductions. It's not always the system's fault, things are difficult for a reason. Edited January 20, 2012 by Encyclopedia
