Xtopher Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 I'm going to start this by being straight forward. I think the class is a bit over powered. At the moment they can spam two skills: Throw Tomahawk and High Speed Cart Ram. Both can be spammed without kiel cards thus they always have fsoldier, maya purple, and even sacred wings because of adrenaline rush. They can also use pnuema making them damn well immune to range. With their tanky attributes combined with their really high damage output they just seem a bit over powered. I get hit with 45k tomahawks from some smiths while I'm on skolls and friggs(usakoring). I understand why they were given tomahawk and pnuema. They needed a way to fight back against ranged classes, but the combination of the two skills is just too strong in my opinion. They can rsx+pnuema and spam tomahawks and there isn't anything a ranged class like sniper/stalker/clown can do. The class isn't meant to be this powerful. I believe they are meant to be support buffs and support party damage while throwing stuns on enemies.... Not high damage dealing nukers who can just hide under pnuema all day. Lastly, when buffing them you have to remember that they already have high survivability with all the yggs they can carry in inventory/cart. Here are my suggestions for change. I don't believe all of these have to be implemented.. maybe just one or two. 1. Change the pnuema on the WS valkyrie hammer to Endure. This way they can endure and walk through/away from ranged damage but are still able to be hit. Pnuema needs to be removed. (Making it a chance to cast on being hit isn't really better unless you make it like .5% because we have anti-arrow pnuema cards already and when hit with 195 atk speed you cast it like crazy) 2. Reduce the damage modifier of tomahawk. The skill is more powerful than their main damage skill (cart ram) which doesn't seem right. 3. Increase the delay after cart term/tomahawk. I know this might be some sort of skill edit but they can spam HIGH dmg with redux on which is kind unbalanced. 4. Reduce their max hp. If you want them to do high damage then make them a "glass cannon" such as champ. Champions get by just fine with 215-235k hp and whats more smiths can carry more YGGs. Last notes: I think the GM team did a great job making the class playable and fun but it is a bit too over powered. This happens from time to time where everyone jumps on a OP class bandwagon (LK super spiral, Clown tarot bow, Stalker super redux bow) and whitesmith at the moment is no different. It has become the go-to OP class for some people. The fact that its so powerful also dissolves the differences between the good smiths and bad ones (my point being you don't have to be skilled to use it). Let me know what you guys think! 3
.Kyuubi. Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 I honestly wouldn't mind having Endure over Pneuma (note: wouldn't mind, not prefer). I main the white smith class and I love it, even with the class being slightly over powered I would still consider them a minority class (lol) cause you really dont see them as often. A whitesmith that carried yggs inside his cart is a complete and utter retard, unless he plans on pure Throw Tomohawk damage (you need 8000/8000 cart weight to do high damage with High Speed Cart Ram). It's true that we can pretty much wear redux on the class and spam skills like a bat out of hell because of Adrenaline Rush but I dont think that this will be nerfed because it would be a skill edit. Long story short, Im neutral when it comes to this suggestion +1,-1
Veralynn Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 I've played WS and Thor is pretty overpowered, less hp would balance it. No need to nerf their valkyrie, however they're oriental needs a buff. 2
Levis Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 I am against the Pneuma. That is just too much. Replace it with Endure or remove it completly.
supream Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) how about just autocast? increasing their delay is source edit because it has no delay its based on aspd. Edited October 10, 2011 by supream
kuoch Posted October 11, 2011 Report Posted October 11, 2011 Decrease agi all day. Force them into GTB and you have a scrub taking 40k+ damage. Problem solved! Not so hard to get a maeros card. Heh. And I think it's a bad idea, it's been a long time since Whitesmith gotten' a buff of any sort. Even with the oriental swords came out, it was as useless as ever. If anything, Thor hammer is exactly what they needed for them to ascend above or even out with the other classes.
Xtopher Posted October 11, 2011 Author Report Posted October 11, 2011 how about just autocast? increasing their delay is source edit because it has no delay its based on aspd. Anti-arrow card already auto casts it. Why do they get the skill when everyone else doesn't. Anyone can use the anti-arrow clip.
supream Posted October 11, 2011 Report Posted October 11, 2011 cause they lose the belts they need. but since they have tomahawk i dont think penuma is needed as much.
Veralynn Posted October 11, 2011 Report Posted October 11, 2011 Decrease agi all day. Force them into GTB and you have a scrub taking 40k+ damage. Problem solved! Not so hard to get a maeros card. Heh. And I think it's a bad idea, it's been a long time since Whitesmith gotten' a buff of any sort. Even with the oriental swords came out, it was as useless as ever. If anything, Thor hammer is exactly what they needed for them to ascend above or even out with the other classes.The issue is twofold. 1: It makes them severely overpowered in comparison to other classes in pvp. 2: It gives almost 0 benefit to the class during WoE. The point is to balance classes, not repeatedly buff/nerf them forever.
JAJA Posted October 11, 2011 Report Posted October 11, 2011 +1 Pheuma Its OP They can use anti-arrow clip
Veralynn Posted October 11, 2011 Report Posted October 11, 2011 Removing pneuma makes them too underpowered compared to snipers and stalkers when it comes to survivability. Just make Thor reduce max hp. 1
HealHard Posted October 11, 2011 Report Posted October 11, 2011 WS is not that overpowered if you use dispell + decrease agi. without buffs they do half damage and it takes time to rebuff. moreover, they use converters and dmg is ranged, so u can pneuma/noxious/angelring/ifrits vs them. Moreover, WS cant normally use dispell and ifrits themself cus their damage relies on STR belts alot. -1 on this.
Veralynn Posted October 11, 2011 Report Posted October 11, 2011 WS is not that overpowered if you use dispell + decrease agi. without buffs they do half damage and it takes time to rebuff. moreover, they use converters and dmg is ranged, so u can pneuma/noxious/angelring/ifrits vs them. Moreover, WS cant normally use dispell and ifrits themself cus their damage relies on STR belts alot. -1 on this. WS has retarded ygg capacity and high hp. The damage isn't the real issue, the issue is they can out ygg ANY other class AND have super high DPS. It's not balanced.
supream Posted October 11, 2011 Report Posted October 11, 2011 penuma was only a good idea since they didnt have any ranged attacks, but now that they do they dont need it.
Xtopher Posted October 11, 2011 Author Report Posted October 11, 2011 Removing pneuma makes them too underpowered compared to snipers and stalkers when it comes to survivability. Just make Thor reduce max hp. They don't need to simultaneously nerf all ranged damage to them and spit out massive ranged damage. One or the other is fine. Pnuema isn't necessary while they're smacking people with 30-50k tomahawks that can be spammed like crazy with no kiels. It's doing just as much if not more damage than FaS from a sniper and can be spammed more easily while they hide under pnuema. How is this balanced? WS is not that overpowered if you use dispell + decrease agi. without buffs they do half damage and it takes time to rebuff. moreover, they use converters and dmg is ranged, so u can pneuma/noxious/angelring/ifrits vs them. Moreover, WS cant normally use dispell and ifrits themself cus their damage relies on STR belts alot.-1 on this. It's just as easy for a WS to dispel as any other melee class. Valkyrie rangris still adds damage. A smith can card this in their weapon and nuke you long range while dispelling and possibly breaking your armor. WS also has more carrying capacity than other classes. Dispell for dispell they will win because they can carry more verters/BoS. In my opinion throw tomahawk shouldn't be doing more damage than their main attack skill (cart term) anyway. penuma was only a good idea since they didnt have any ranged attacks, but now that they do they dont need it. Exactly my point, give them endure or something if they want to tank ranged damage.
.Kyuubi. Posted October 12, 2011 Report Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) They don't need to simultaneously nerf all ranged damage to them and spit out massive ranged damage. One or the other is fine. Pnuema isn't necessary while they're smacking people with 30-50k tomahawks that can be spammed like crazy with no kiels. It's doing just as much if not more damage than FaS from a sniper and can be spammed more easily while they hide under pnuema. How is this balanced? It's just as easy for a WS to dispel as any other melee class. Valkyrie rangris still adds damage. A smith can card this in their weapon and nuke you long range while dispelling and possibly breaking your armor. WS also has more carrying capacity than other classes. Dispell for dispell they will win because they can carry more verters/BoS. In my opinion throw tomahawk shouldn't be doing more damage than their main attack skill (cart term) anyway. Exactly my point, give them endure or something if they want to tank ranged damage. A whitesmiths main damage skill (cart termination) is Based off ATK and not STR or % damage like Turtle General or Valk Randgris so using such cards for damage would be idiotic. IF a whitesmith would card a valk r. card into his/her weapon it would be to go full redux with coma and dual client on a full asura champion to kill you. (yeah im talkin about you jordan..u fag) Whitesmiths where originally designed to buff his/her party members in PvP WoE and GvG and supply such members with items while simultaneously doing (somewhat massive) damage with Cart Termination which was their main/only viable attack. What kind of merchant class would whitesmith be if they wherent able to carry more supplies than an assassin, archer or mage? as far as i know the knight class can carry an almost equal amount of yggdrasil berry/seeds as a whitesmith and do even greater damage. As it stand now, without thanatos card my smith can do around 23k-35k (sometimes 45k) damage with Throw Tomohawk, which really isnt any more than what a spiral pierce, FaS, Bowling Bash or TSS can do. it all really depends on what the target is wearing. If anything i'd say Cart Termination STILL needs a bit of a damage boost. Maybe both Throw Tomohawk and Pneuma combined is a bit overpowered but WS rely VERY heavily on str belts for the ATK boost to where if you where to remove even one your damage would drop so low that it wouldnt matter if you equiped an anti-arrow clip to try and avoid ranged damage. your own damage would be trash. Ultimately you could dispell the whitesmith to remove his buffs completely and just laugh at him while he/she GTB's and takes increased damage from your own attacks. Apparently when said whitesmith equips an RSX armor and casts pneuma he cant be moved at all by a ranged class. whats stoping that ranged class from stripping (cause those basterds can strip) and or closing the gap between them forcing both into melee combat? theres more to ranged than just shooting arrows, try and be a little diverse. Edited October 12, 2011 by .Kyuubi.
Veralynn Posted October 12, 2011 Report Posted October 12, 2011 A whitesmiths main damage skill (cart termination) is Based off ATK and not STR or % damage like Turtle General or Valk Randgris so using such cards for damage would be idiotic. IF a whitesmith would card a valk r. card into his/her weapon it would be to go full redux with coma and dual client on a full asura champion to kill you. (yeah im talkin about you jordan..u fag) Whitesmiths where originally designed to buff his/her party members in PvP WoE and GvG and supply such members with items while simultaneously doing (somewhat massive) damage with Cart Termination which was their main/only viable attack. What kind of merchant class would whitesmith be if they wherent able to carry more supplies than an assassin, archer or mage? as far as i know the knight class can carry an almost equal amount of yggdrasil berry/seeds as a whitesmith and do even greater damage. As it stand now, without thanatos card my smith can do around 23k-35k (sometimes 45k) damage with Throw Tomohawk, which really isnt any more than what a spiral pierce, FaS, Bowling Bash or TSS can do. it all really depends on what the target is wearing. If anything i'd say Cart Termination STILL needs a bit of a damage boost. Maybe both Throw Tomohawk and Pneuma combined is a bit overpowered but WS rely VERY heavily on str belts for the ATK boost to where if you where to remove even one your damage would drop so low that it wouldnt matter if you equiped an anti-arrow clip to try and avoid ranged damage. your own damage would be trash. Ultimately you could dispell the whitesmith to remove his buffs completely and just laugh at him while he/she GTB's and takes increased damage from your own attacks. Apparently when said whitesmith equips an RSX armor and casts pneuma he cant be moved at all by a ranged class. whats stoping that ranged class from stripping (cause those basterds can strip) and or closing the gap between them forcing both into melee combat? theres more to ranged than just shooting arrows, try and be a little diverse. The issue is they have more defense and attack than nearly every other class in pvp. They carry the most yggs, have a ton of HP, have pneuma for ranged attacks, and are ranged attackers themselves. I find it ironic that they're pretty much useless during WoE though, pvp is the only spotlight they shine in.
strawboy Posted October 12, 2011 Report Posted October 12, 2011 I am against the Pneuma. That is just too much. Replace it with Endure or remove it completly. + 1!!! 1
Genesis Posted October 12, 2011 Report Posted October 12, 2011 Just wanted to give you guys a head up, I will be carefully looking into this topic myself. Keep 'em coming. =]
kuoch Posted October 12, 2011 Report Posted October 12, 2011 Here: Pros: 1: The only reason why Whitesmith is such a good class is only because they have a high ygg capacity. Letting them hold to about 400-500 seeds. Tops. 2: They have both Tomahawk to penetrate with range, and also a close melee skill. (Cart Termination) 3: Very well rounded and versatile, can tank a decent amount of damage. Cons: 1: Once they're debuffed they have to recast all their skills all over again, thus reducing their damage. 2: They can tank damage, but most whitesmith health are mostly as a minimum of 210-230k. 3: Someone who abuses a maeros card on a whitesmith fucks them over terribly. A well played whitesmith can take on anyone, only because of their yggs. But just by forcing them into GTB, there is going to be a huge yggl drainage to them. So, my best approval for this is to leave everything as is, BUT taking away the pnuema effect. Done deal.
.Kyuubi. Posted October 12, 2011 Report Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) The issue is they have more defense and attack than nearly every other class in pvp. They carry the most yggs, have a ton of HP, have pneuma for ranged attacks, and are ranged attackers themselves. I find it ironic that they're pretty much useless during WoE though, pvp is the only spotlight they shine in. Defense?..maybe, attack? lmao yeah right. we carry the most yggs because thats exactly what we where meant to do. the class is all about being super sturdy and just out lasting everyone around us. in pvp every time we have to go restock on yggs/verters you've already died/ran from us about 3-4 times. a whitesmith also semi excels at one on one combat which is why they usually sit around and buff during WoE and GvG The only reason why Whitesmith is such a good class is only because they have a high ygg capacity. Letting them hold to about 400-500 seeds. Tops. Actually if I storage all my gear and only use a single fset and close to no converters or repair materials, I can hold a good 650-800 seeds A well played whitesmith can take on anyone, only because of their yggs. But just by forcing them into GTB, there is going to be a huge yggl drainage to them. So, my best approval for this is to leave everything as is, BUT taking away the pnuema effect. Done deal. sure, remove pneuma effect, but i want something useful to replace it Edited October 12, 2011 by .Kyuubi.
supream Posted October 12, 2011 Report Posted October 12, 2011 all i see now and days are tomahawk frenzy whitesmiths and decreasing their agi dosent stop them from spamming that skill so you dont need penuma. if u fight a range class just spam that skill like the most of you have been doing, or if you have to fight a champ ( which is a whitesmiths weakness) get a anti arrow ring. the only class that has the ability to beat any class is a lord knight. every other class has a weakness to another (wizard vs scholar, champ vs clown, pally vs whitesmith, assassin vs lord knight, priest vs everything, and so on). you cant just say whitesmiths have a special case when they have to use gtb, any class that uses gtb will receive greater damage. they removed coma on lk spear and gave us 50 sp back so giving you something equally as good isnt going to happen.
.Kyuubi. Posted October 12, 2011 Report Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) all i see now and days are tomahawk frenzy whitesmiths and decreasing their agi dosent stop them from spamming that skill so you dont need penuma. if u fight a range class just spam that skill like the most of you have been doing, or if you have to fight a champ ( which is a whitesmiths weakness) get a anti arrow ring. the only class that has the ability to beat any class is a lord knight. every other class has a weakness to another (wizard vs scholar, champ vs clown, pally vs whitesmith, assassin vs lord knight, priest vs everything, and so on). you cant just say whitesmiths have a special case when they have to use gtb, any class that uses gtb will receive greater damage. they removed coma on lk spear and gave us 50 sp back so giving you something equally as good isnt going to happen. shows how much you actually know about the class. if you decrease agi on a whitesmith it doesnt matter what he does, without his adrenaline rush (which does infact get removed when their agi is decreased) the ws cant spam shit we have to rebuff and and waste yggs while we do so. a player that uses ifrit rings against a whitesmith just for quagmire will shit all over a smith any day. Edit: also i just noticed that throw tomohawk only costs 1sp. maybe the amount of sp used could be increased up to 35-50sp Edited October 12, 2011 by .Kyuubi.
