Acetrainer Posted May 31, 2011 Report Posted May 31, 2011 I would like to suggest that the helm of darkness and the angel of ghost be changed for stalkers to give lvl 10 Lightning Spear of Ice instead of lvl 10 Cold Bolt. In my opinion it's just a better PVP skill for Stalkers and would be much more useful.
Seraphine Posted May 31, 2011 Report Posted May 31, 2011 Keep it to 1 suggestion per topic.On topic i think adding that skill to the Stalker Oriental Sword would be better.
TensaZangetsu Posted May 31, 2011 Report Posted May 31, 2011 disagree, stalkers don't need it, but on the other hand creators do!
Seraphine Posted May 31, 2011 Report Posted May 31, 2011 (edited) Stay on topic please,if you wanna make a different suggestion about it do so but for now this is about stalkers.Also magic stalkers need major buffs and this would help. Edited May 31, 2011 by Seraphine
Ryuk Posted May 31, 2011 Report Posted May 31, 2011 Also magic stalkers need major buffs and this would help. I disagree completely, Stalkers are fine as they are in every single way. Their survivability is already huge. Changing the the bolts to lightning spear of ice will remove the needs of kiels and will give stalkers even bigger advantages than they already have.
Acetrainer Posted May 31, 2011 Author Report Posted May 31, 2011 I disagree completely, Stalkers are fine as they are in every single way. Their survivability is already huge. Changing the the bolts to lightning spear of ice will remove the needs of kiels and will give stalkers even bigger advantages than they already have. And having the Mask of Darkness [1] instead of the Valk Helm [2] is less slots which puts them at a disadvantage. Also you have to consider that they will preserve another skill that may require 3 kiels and that leaves them without the f.soldier or maya p anyways. And most players will combine the Mask or Darkness of the Ghost of Angel with a Vote Scarf which gives neither Vit nor Int to help them on a magic build. The bolt moves are useless unless you're a proff with double bolt, which is why no Stalker uses these Helms.
Ryuk Posted May 31, 2011 Report Posted May 31, 2011 And having the Mask of Darkness [1] instead of the Valk Helm [2] is less slots which puts them at a disadvantage. Also you have to consider that they will preserve another skill that may require 3 kiels and that leaves them without the f.soldier or maya p anyways. And most players will combine the Mask or Darkness of the Ghost of Angel with a Vote Scarf which gives neither Vit nor Int to help them on a magic build. The bolt moves are useless unless you're a proff with double bolt, which is why no Stalker uses these Helms. Kobold hat is [1] too. Loli hat is [1] too. They are all 1 slotted for a reason. It will require you to use 3 kiels and this will cause vurnerabilities. This is done on purpose. There's a huge amount of skills they can copy. Whether they copy a skill that requires kiels or not is their choice. Bolts are definitely not useless as it puts out massive damage. And with the huge survivabilty/hp stalkers get they wont have to fear reflect like profs/wizzards. Maybe you can add a slight bonus to matk to improve the damage further and make the bolts "less useless" but removing the need for kiel cards is a too big boost. In my opinion that is.
Acetrainer Posted May 31, 2011 Author Report Posted May 31, 2011 Kobold hat is [1] too. Loli hat is [1] too. They are all 1 slotted for a reason. It will require you to use 3 kiels and this will cause vurnerabilities. This is done on purpose. There's a huge amount of skills they can copy. Whether they copy a skill that requires kiels or not is their choice. Bolts are definitely not useless as it puts out massive damage. And with the huge survivabilty/hp stalkers get they wont have to fear reflect like profs/wizzards. Maybe you can add a slight bonus to matk to improve the damage further and make the bolts "less useless" but removing the need for kiel cards is a too big boost. In my opinion that is. I really don't see where you're getting this "huge survivability" from for INT Stalkers. With the elite dagger and basic gear I only have 235k hp. With that same gear my proff has 225k hp. And the dagger doesn't give redux like the bow... so how does an INT stalker vary from other classes? Your opinion seems to be heavily based on the fact that DEX stalkers are very OP and to be honest they are, which is why im trying to make the INT stalker at least viable. And whether or not Stalkers need 3 kiels or not, its not like theres any headgear cards out there thats gonna make them live any longer. And Every other class does just fine with Sacred whatever color wings and no slot in there lower headgear. You wanna punish stalkers, make the bow two handed but dont screw over the INT ones.
Ryuk Posted May 31, 2011 Report Posted May 31, 2011 I really don't see where you're getting this "huge survivability" from for INT Stalkers. With the elite dagger and basic gear I only have 235k hp. With that same gear my proff has 225k hp. And the dagger doesn't give redux like the bow... so how does an INT stalker vary from other classes? Your opinion seems to be heavily based on the fact that DEX stalkers are very OP and to be honest they are, which is why im trying to make the INT stalker at least viable. And whether or not Stalkers need 3 kiels or not, its not like theres any headgear cards out there thats gonna make them live any longer. And Every other class does just fine with Sacred whatever color wings and no slot in there lower headgear. You wanna punish stalkers, make the bow two handed but dont screw over the INT ones. I'm not out to "punish" stalkers in any way. As for their HP. Int stalkers can easily get double the HP you have with regular vit and gears. As for the change to kiels, they could now be immune to stone curse and get some reductions too (perhaps even additional reduction to elements) and/or true sight. These changes WILL increase their survivability by a lot. I'm sorry but I really don't think stalkers are the ones that need boosting right now.
Sorrow Posted May 31, 2011 Report Posted May 31, 2011 Its been suggested and its probably gonna be implemented due to the big amount of people who agreed that LSOI will be added to the Stalker Oriental Black Sword so there isn't much of a need for this change. Although i agree in having this skill into these helm/mask as well, as it was said; Magic Stalkers are at the moment in plain disadvantage when compared to Ranged Stalkers, the bow gives reductions, is one handed, and Stalkers have a skill of their own in the range tree; Double Strifing. Which is a huge asset to the DEX based build having a 'nice' skill they can work with even if their Plagiarized skill gets screwed, as Magic stalkers are going to next to useless once someone managed to pull in a dispell followed by just about anything, Tarot Card of Fate of the high priestess followed by an Arrow Vulcan is the most annoying thing one can do a Magic Stalker. Stalkers may seem overpowered in the vision of some players, but how much stalkers are STR or INT based around now? i can count the ones i see around in the fingers of one hand and i don't even use them all, which is the proof right there; Magic Stalkers are not overpowered seeing as the ranged version is preffered hands down.
Ryuk Posted May 31, 2011 Report Posted May 31, 2011 Its been suggested and its probably gonna be implemented due to the big amount of people who agreed that LSOI will be added to the Stalker Oriental Black Sword so there isn't much of a need for this change. Although i agree in having this skill into these helm/mask as well, as it was said; Magic Stalkers are at the moment in plain disadvantage when compared to Ranged Stalkers, the bow gives reductions, is one handed, and Stalkers have a skill of their own in the range tree; Double Strifing. Which is a huge asset to the DEX based build having a 'nice' skill they can work with even if their Plagiarized skill gets screwed, as Magic stalkers are going to next to useless once someone managed to pull in a dispell followed by just about anything, Tarot Card of Fate of the high priestess followed by an Arrow Vulcan is the most annoying thing one can do a Magic Stalker. Stalkers may seem overpowered in the vision of some players, but how much stalkers are STR or INT based around now? i can count the ones i see around in the fingers of one hand and i don't even use them all, which is the proof right there; Magic Stalkers are not overpowered seeing as the ranged version is preffered hands down. A boost to str type stalkers I can agree to, but magic ones are fine as they are. Their damage output is higher than str and dex builds. their survivability is better than str builds and probably slightly better than dex ones as well (Based on stats, easier access to vit and therefor more hp). This change is like asking to add a 100% after skill delay reduction to Loli hat or a specific skill. So profs and wizards wont need kiels anymore to spam their main skill or skills. If you dont want to use kiels and still use magic then just copy this skill. That's what the copy ability is for. Yes preserve can be removed by one single class with a skill that's based on luck and relying on the speed of the player to use a different skill right after the correct card. But every class should have his/her weaknesses. The only reason why you dont see a lot of magic stalkers is gtb. And people dont want to wait out the fcp (like stalkers should..). This suggestion will not stop that one single problem magic stalkers have, gtb.
Dudu Posted May 31, 2011 Report Posted May 31, 2011 Ahem, I do think Stalkers deserves this change, they do way LESS dmg from Dex type Stalkers plus, the DEX type cant get his Dmg null'd *poiints at gtb". If they wont require Kiels, wat else can a MATK classe use for headgear instead of maya p? Fsold if they are gtbin and u want to melee them but, stalkers has Full Devistment so no need to Hit them, and since they only got 3 slots, id use 2Kiel and Maya P. Thats my opinion tho. heh
Sorrow Posted May 31, 2011 Report Posted May 31, 2011 There, you pointed it yourself; GTB is forever a weakness Magic stalker can't hope to overcome, so saying it is overpowered is nowhere near true, and i don't think that being rendered completely useless by a single card is being 'fine as it is' xD And an int stalker has better access to vit and therefore more survivability than a DEX type? i can't agree to that. The massive amount of DEX the range type needs, brings a lot of advantages, including, high damage output to their skills with much superior range than any others, more efficiency and duration on their strip skills and much less need for AGI to max out aspd, on my stalker i used NO base AGI whatsoever to get max aspd, those points wasted on agi go to vit, i can survive a Lexed Full Asura to the face and laugh as i backslide on my ranged stalker, on an int build you can't dream of that. And don't forget, i said high priests card on TCOF is the worst nightmare of an int stalker, but anyone can still use dispell, and Stalkers aren't immune to it; one can't have Spirit Buffs 24/7 and defaulting GTB is a very riscky thing...so yeah it's not a single class that scrambles them over. Also, as you know, professors, ninjas and wizzards have a much larger arsenal of spells at their disposal and plagiarism&preserve can't really get the stalker more than ONE skill as stalkers have no magic skills of their own, if you're going to plagiarize LSOI, then surely the Cold Bolt granted by these hats is utterly useless, if the hat gave LSOI, they could plagiarize another spell instead and have at least 2 good skills they can work with, giving much more utility to these items therefore. What i am getting at is, professors, ninjas and wizzards as magic users, all have their charms(dual bolting+dispell, evasive skills+low delay spammy magic and area nuking, respectivly), a magic stalker has NOTHING going in their favor that makes them really unique, so if you want to use a magic class, you won't choose them. Even with GTB around, i'm quite pleased with the number of fellow professors and wizzards around, as for magic stalkers... The ability of 'customizing'(to a little extent) their spell books is a perfect exemple of what could make them really worth to play. But having the ability to choose but a single spell that can be easily swapped away from you is, at best, lame. Hence why, as a player that really likes stalkers, mine is dex type, and i wouldn't even bother trying to make a magic type now because of how inferior they are. There's no atractive on a magic built stalker that would make me(or anyone else it seems) want to play it over my prof, wizzy or even ninja. But there are several atractives to a DEX stalker that makes me favor it(for suiting better my playstyle/taste) over a sniper or a clown. i have no intention/hopes of swaying your opinion, just presenting my own xP!
Dudu Posted May 31, 2011 Report Posted May 31, 2011 ^ Ogod u made me cry of happiness LOL. jk jk xD Thats just exactly what im sayin! DEX Type stalkers has LOTS of ways of survivality, they can use Poring tower, sacreds, skell aura ( OP redux ) and still get enough aspd to spam DS or even BB or FAS. But the actual MATK Stalker cant to that, you need to add tons of agi to make it 195 aspd, in DEX type...none....Theres tons of reasons why MATK Stalkers are underpowerd compairin to the DEX Class types. Ty Sorrow for the supporting post
Ryuk Posted May 31, 2011 Report Posted May 31, 2011 (edited) There, you pointed it yourself; GTB is forever a weakness Magic stalker can't hope to overcome, so saying it is overpowered is nowhere near true, and i don't think that being rendered completely useless by a single card is being 'fine as it is' xD First of all I never stated it is overpowered. I said it's decent the way it is. I don't think stalkers need such a huge advantage to completely remove the need for kiel cards while all other magic classes except for ninjas need kiels to do anything with their magic. What i am getting at is, professors, ninjas and wizzards as magic users, all have their charms(dual bolting+dispell, evasive skills+low delay spammy magic and area nuking, respectivly), a magic stalker has NOTHING going in their favor that makes them really unique, so if you want to use a magic class, you won't choose them. Even with GTB around, i'm quite pleased with the number of fellow professors and wizzards around, as for magic stalkers... Stalkers charm is obvious to me. (Copy spells, strip, backslide, massive hp) Especially the strip is what makes them unique compared to the other 'magic type classes'. i can survive a Lexed Full Asura to the face and laugh as i backslide on my ranged stalker, on an int build you can't dream of that. Magic stalkers can do the exact same thing. The only thing that would be different is the weapon as the bow has little reductions as well. There's no atractive on a magic built stalker that would make me(or anyone else it seems) want to play it over my prof, wizzy or even ninja. But there are several atractives to a DEX stalker that makes me favor it(for suiting better my playstyle/taste) over a sniper or a clown. Well then I'd recommend you guys to suggest something that stalkers will be able to do vs GTB. This topic's suggested change would not change a single thing towards their weakness and it would STILL not be "attractive" to change to a magic stalker build over the prof/wizzy or ninja. Even though magic ninjas do not have a single thing they can do vs gtb either, besides trying to survive. At least a stalker can outwait fcp and then easily kill his/her target. Thats just exactly what im sayin! DEX Type stalkers has LOTS of ways of survivality, they can use Poring tower, sacreds, skell aura ( OP redux ) and still get enough aspd to spam DS or even BB or FAS. But the actual MATK Stalker cant to that, you need to add tons of agi to make it 195 aspd, in DEX type...none....Theres tons of reasons why MATK Stalkers are underpowerd compairin to the DEX Class types. Ty Sorrow for the supporting post Wearing those headgears would require you to add quite some agi no matter what build you are in. Dex or int. Either way it's not smart to wear only 2 kiels with a magic class full time. So if you'd replace the poring tower with fhelm. You'd be unfreezeable have max aspd with less than half the agi the redux bow stalker would have , have more hp and be able to spam perfectly fine. In exchange you lose 10% reduction which the extra hp and extra stats to vit instead of agi make up for. In short : There are possibilities in boosting up magic stalkers. But I don't think this is the right way. Magic stalkers will still have the same problem with this suggestion implemented as they have now. Edited May 31, 2011 by Ryuk
Sorrow Posted May 31, 2011 Report Posted May 31, 2011 Well that's your opinion and i respect that, i just don't agree with it :3 Anyways my support for the suggestion remains! @Edu; no problem buddy, its almost as if we're the only ones who care about magic in this thingie ;P
Seraphine Posted June 1, 2011 Report Posted June 1, 2011 Well when you consider it there really isn't any amazing headgear cards you can put besides Kiel,and Maya p so i don't see why it's so "Over powered" and if you don't think this is the way to help Magic Stalkers then how do you suggest doing it?
Acetrainer Posted June 1, 2011 Author Report Posted June 1, 2011 Well when you consider it there really isn't any amazing headgear cards you can put besides Kiel,and Maya p so i don't see why it's so "Over powered" and if you don't think this is the way to help Magic Stalkers then how do you suggest doing it? It's true, with the fact that every single player has a golden thief bug card an INT Stalker is easily stopped considering that their only other defense is Full Divestment which can be useless with FCP and on characters with very high dex the gear can be put back on immediatly even if they are stripped. The only reason i suggested giving them a more useful skill is because their bolt damage will never be as good as a proffs and this way they can copy a useful skill like Stave Crasher or Acid Demonstration for GTB users and these skills in themselves would require the use of kiels anyways.
Veracity Posted June 27, 2011 Report Posted June 27, 2011 - Accepted - We'll test this out extensively before deciding whether or not to implement it. I do agree that Stalkers shouldn't be the number one priority for us now, however. They're fairly versatile and there are many other classes that need attention much more than Stalkers do. So while we will look into this more, it doesn't mean it will be anytime soon.
