Adum* Posted May 21, 2011 Report Posted May 21, 2011 Ganging. Pvp is about individual skills... Not party skills. If you want to run with a party, go forfild
Ryuk Posted May 21, 2011 Report Posted May 21, 2011 I disagree. There are support jobs for a reason. Lets not try making them even more useless than they already are.
Halion Posted May 21, 2011 Report Posted May 21, 2011 this was suggested before and denied because of the supporting skills that can be used in pvp room
Acetrainer Posted May 22, 2011 Report Posted May 22, 2011 There's really only 3 classes that have support skills that require a party and if that's the only argument as to why parties should be allowed then lets look at these skill... WhiteSmith : Weapon Perfection and Over-thrust ... wait no one plays WhiteSmith competitively Priest: Angelus, Gloria and Magnificant ... useless skills on a high rate Paladin: Devotion ... the only way Champs with little skill can hope to win ladder. So as the PVP room is nothing but a giant gang-fest, it's no wonder no one goes in there.
Xtopher Posted May 22, 2011 Report Posted May 22, 2011 I disagree with making pvp none party. I like the idea of a 1v1 room but it's been rejected many times. Making it none party would only push the rich to being richer even more. Someone with better items will usually win, but if you get a good enough team you can beat them in pvp. Party play has more strategic advantage than one on one and with parties its not just the ones with better items that always win. You basically have two options if you're being ganged in pvp: 1: Get your own gang. 2. Stay out of the pvp room. Also, paladins aren't just for noob champs, they are a key team player in players verses players battle... and, Priests can use BSS & Basilica in parties which is not useless on this server.
Acetrainer Posted May 22, 2011 Report Posted May 22, 2011 Bascilla is useless because it can be dispelled away or land protected, as well it does not protect against Tarot Card of Fate or Full Divestment. I would also argue that BSS is useless but that's a different issue. Paladins have useful skills but none of them are used when all they do is stand there and Devotion. But aside from those points you're admitting that PVP is just a party gang-fest which is what this topic is about and making it none-party might force some of the ladder winners to actually work for the over-priced and over-used ladder wings, none of which poorer players can ever hope to win because of it.
Ryuk Posted May 22, 2011 Report Posted May 22, 2011 (edited) Alright..... WhiteSmith : Weapon Perfection and Over-thrust ... wait no one plays WhiteSmith competitively Priest: Angelus, Gloria and Magnificant ... useless skills on a high rate Paladin: Devotion ... the only way Champs with little skill can hope to win ladder. Whitesmith, boosts have been promised over 5 times. It's just waiting until they're finally released. Besides I've seen a few proper whitesmiths around like Kuoch. Weapon perfection and over thrust are NOT useless skills and will be seen in pvp more once whitesmiths finally get some boosts. Priest : You're missing basillica. And it's true it doesn't help vs tarot or strip and magnetic earth (The only three things that do something against basillica.) But any proper priest would know they can recast basillica ontop of a land protector and overwrite it until land protector is casted again. And lets be fair if you want to compete with the best you should know you'll need a fcp. FCP, gtb and be ready to recast and you'll have a perfect party skill. Paladin: Devotion ... the only way Champs with little skill can hope to win ladder.Devotion has nothing to do with whether the champ is skilled or not. It's a essential supporting skill for champions due to their high damage output and reflect chance. And because so many people are using reflect gear a champion alone would hardly ever be able to get the kill/death ratio needed to win the full price. Hence why they'll ask for a devotion paladin. Devotion can be countered as well. But I didn't know this topic was about trying to convince how "useless" support skills are. Just because you find them useless you say we should remove their usage completely ? Honestly I don't see ANY reason to nerf the support classes even more than they already are. Paladins have useful skills but none of them are used when all they do is stand there and Devotion.Very VERY not true. Skills that are used in pvp by proper paladins : Gospell, devotion, Shield reflect, guard, defender (Yes these count as support skills as well because you can apply them to others), provoke. None supportive skills : magnum break, Pressure. Sometimes even Matyr's reckoning. And heck I might even be missing some skills still. But aside from those points you're admitting that PVP is just a party gang-fest which is what this topic is about and making it none-party might force some of the ladder winners to actually work for the over-priced and over-used ladder wings, none of which poorer players can ever hope to win because of it. You're completely misunderstanding his point. Only because of the accessability of parties and party buffs newer players are able to join in on pvp and get a share of the winnings. Without these parties they would never ever be able to compete in pvp because they'll be all by themselfs. All in all I still stand by my opinion. Edit : You also missed clowns/gypsies with support skills like marionette control and group songs. And no it's not useless it can boost up stats still. Also lets not forget star gladiator skills that rely on party size. You'd be nerfing so many skills and classes with this change, just because you want the extremely rich to dominate pvp even more. I don't see the point... Regards, Ryuk Edited May 22, 2011 by Ryuk
nines Posted May 22, 2011 Report Posted May 22, 2011 I Disagree because i like to have an easy kill in pvp and not earn the ladder prize im going for legit. You know ladder is about being the best that week, not being the one with the most connections or lifeless friends. I like easy kills I say no to this suggestion............ .................. .................................nothing seems to have changed >>
Guest lolensue Posted May 22, 2011 Report Posted May 22, 2011 i really like the way nines post. anyway i disagree. Skills that need party are nullified with this suggestion
Adum* Posted May 22, 2011 Report Posted May 22, 2011 I'm sorry, but come on guys..how can a new fella win against a party of fully equipped guys/gals? I think taking out party in pvp will encourage people to go in there and actually try their skill against others. With enabled party, new comers are reluctant to go pvp in fear that they're going to be ganged. Support class never win ladder. It's possible, but I never seen anyone win the ladder with a support class. Party off pvp will not cripple support class, they can still be there to buff people. Also, please don't bring SG in this discussion, because I never seen an SG ladder. Another thing, basilica...why would you need that in pvp? It's pvp for flipping cakes! You're not there to chill and chat. Besides, basilica is meant for the priest only, so he/she can survive and buff those who he/she thinks should be buffed -or want to buff. Pales have martyr for a reason... Asura champ is not the only build for champions. If you choose to go asura, then you shouldn't qq about dying from reflect. I'll qoute nines for this "You know ladder is about being the best that week, not being the one with the most connections or lifeless friends." i really like the way nines post. anyway i disagree. Skills that need party are nullified with this suggestion Skills that needs party are not meant for pvp only. Theres woe for example. Anything team based event. Ever wonder why its called ladder? Why it's called player bs player? No "s" kiddo...no "s". Also, why is it that ladder wings are so expensive?? Anyway, sorry for the double post. I can't do reply using my iPod. Please just merge this post to my previous. Thank you.
Ryuk Posted May 22, 2011 Report Posted May 22, 2011 (edited) With enabled party, new comers are reluctant to go pvp in fear that they're going to be gangedWithout enabled party, new comers are reluctant to go to pvp because they are completely on their own vs massively geared other players. Support class never win ladder. It's possible, but I never seen anyone win the ladder with a support class. Party off pvp will not cripple support class, they can still be there to buff people.It's not about them winning ladder. It's about them helping a different player win ladder and perhaps share the price afterwards. THAT'S what support classes are for. Obviously my previous post has proven that turning parties off will cripple support classes. So there's no need to deny that. Another thing, basilica...why would you need that in pvp? It's pvp for flipping cakes! You're not there to chill and chat. Besides, basilica is meant for the priest only, so he/she can survive and buff those who he/she thinks should be buffed -or want to buff.Wrong again, Basillica can be a very useful skill in pvp fights, not only used for chatting. Also it's obvious basillica is made as a party buff, Hence why it pushes everyone out EXCEPT for your party members. Pales have martyr for a reason... Asura champ is not the only build for champions. If you choose to go asura, then you shouldn't qq about dying from reflect.Yes, matyr will surely make them fierce enemies.... Matyr is about the easiest skill to reduce and can be countered very easily. Paladins are a support class not a damage class. Start playing as one and stop trying to ruin the support options that are left. Yes there are other champion builds. But why should we destroy the complete game mechanics just because you want to force people to use different builds ? There's support classes and there's damage classes. Please let it stay this way and dont try turning every single character into a damage class or completely nullify the support ones. Edited May 22, 2011 by Ryuk
Secret Posted May 22, 2011 Report Posted May 22, 2011 Well no party or with party if they still want to gang you you cant do anything about it. 1
Halion Posted May 22, 2011 Report Posted May 22, 2011 Well no party or with party if they still want to gang you you cant do anything about it. indeed.
Adum* Posted May 22, 2011 Report Posted May 22, 2011 im not trying to cripple support class. what im just trying to put out there, is that when new comers try pvp, theyre faced with players that are in a party and are fully geareed. a decent geared player can still kill a fully geared one. i see that all the time in forfild. i may not be an active player, but when i do go online, i observe things around me, specially people fighting. just cause a player is not active enough, doesnt mean he/she cant voice out something also, im not trying to destroy or change how the game it. like i said, i just want to share to you guys why i agree on this suggestion. think of it this way, you wont go inside a room where you know there will be a bunch of fully buffed guys waiting for you to go in an beat you up. you can bring your not-so-buff crew and try to win against those uberly buffed guys. i say good luck to you. im not trying to cripple support class. what im just trying to put out there, is that when new comers try pvp, theyre faced with players that are in a party and are fully geareed. a decent geared player can still kill a fully geared one. i see that all the time in forfild. i may not be an active player, but when i do go online, i observe things around me, specially people fighting. just cause a player is not active enough, doesnt mean he/she cant voice out something also, im not trying to destroy or change how the game it. like i said, i just want to share to you guys why i agree on this suggestion. think of it this way, you wont go inside a room where you know there will be a bunch of fully buffed guys waiting for you to go in an beat you up. you can bring your not-so-buff crew and try to win against those uberly buffed guys. i say good luck to you.
Ryuk Posted May 22, 2011 Report Posted May 22, 2011 think of it this way, you wont go inside a room where you know there will be a bunch of fully buffed guys waiting for you to go in an beat you up. you can bring your not-so-buff crew and try to win against those uberly buffed guys. i say good luck to you. Without parties allowed people will still know there's a group waiting for them. And even 1 on 1 they won't go in cause most of them know they dont stand a chance. im not trying to cripple support class. what im just trying to put out there, is that when new comers try pvp, theyre faced with players that are in a party and are fully geareed.You might not be trying to cripple them, But it's a fact that this suggestion WILL cripple them , even if you dont want it. Hence why I disagree with the suggestion :3.
supream Posted May 22, 2011 Report Posted May 22, 2011 lets see here. cripple support classes? LOL, sounds like some people just want to keep their gangs strong. i can cast lext on someone without being in a party. devo is for people who cant win on their own. that wouldnt make pallies useless cause they can win ladder on their own. also, please dont say the reason you want to keep parties is so that newcomers can go into pvp so they have a chance. they will never have a chance to win ladder unless they get better gears. i can bet the main reason you guys want to keep parties is so that you dont make a mistake and hit the people helping you. either that or devotion.
Weezing Posted May 22, 2011 Report Posted May 22, 2011 ^ Agree with Mike, party is just for newbie champs that can't win without devo.
nines Posted May 22, 2011 Report Posted May 22, 2011 Who wants me to make a long ass post that will shut you guys up on this topic? cause wow i've got a ton of points on this lol. I got statistics to :P
ramonjordan Posted May 22, 2011 Report Posted May 22, 2011 yeah you dont need a party in pvp to win ladder there are people with 4 pallies in pvp at once so when one dies another one is ready with a fresh set of yggs tell me that isn't abusive you barely have a chance to do any damage to the person laddering.
