Sniper Soaring Bird.

[Seraphine]

Snipers are meant to deal high damage and they have the ability of range too and now they can wear a shield too? That's probably what alot of people will say, although i don't play sniper if bows were 2h it would just be another low level class compared to the rest even with some reductions and the high damage. So i disagree although a damage reduction could balance things out.

Edited March 9, 2011 by Seraphine

[HerLove]

I have no problem with the 1 handed bow but I think there should be some downside to snipers having a shield on. In my opinion a 20-30% dmg reduction while shields are equiped would be great. Thats just me.

Snipers are meant to deal high damage and they have the ability of range too and now they can wear a shield too? That's probably what alot of people will say, although i don't play sniper if bows were 2h it would just be another low level class compared to the rest even with some reductions and the high damage. So i disagree although a damage reduction could balance things out.

Cha ching /fsh $$$ lol

[kuoch]

Range strip only works if you're like 1-2 tiles away from them.

[nines]

And now they can wear a shield to? They've had the shield for months. And what major imbalance has happened? What major unbalance in pvp is there? Because when I look at for_fild and woe and gvg there are maybe three other snipers who can even be called a little hard to kill except for me. That would be Laura, Mello, and Bass. Not everyone that uses the class is insanely good. I've got snipers in my guild who suck at pvp.

Everyone still dies, I die a lot on my sniper and so do the other ones who can be considered in the top list for snipers. As I said no reason to change anything.

Just because one class has a little advantage over another now. You know what I've done this before Im going to do it again Im going to spell out this class vs every other class using all its skills to the fullest and all it can do.

Sniper vs Sinx.

Arrow Repel, Detect, Fas. Good combo to do damage on them. The sinx can still use rsx. to counter that but now we have a littler lower hp. Just use a shield a dispel hat. If you have sgw switch between dispel hat and sgw so the damage will suck. Sinx still does good damage to sniper with one hand. I've been pvping mello on sinx a lot >>. But yah if you go two hand you die. Oh also if the sniper goes on kobold hat and fas spam you can just sc armor make them lower their dmg again. Sniper has a little advantage but every class will have an edge over another.

Sniper vs Champ.

If the champ isn't a retard you'll have a damn hard time. As Juan mentioned they can decrease agility, pneuma, rsx. The sniper just got in a bad position. They can tank asura now so they can try to kit the champ and wait for one little opening maybe when they asura they move out of pneuma a bit and you can use that as your opening (What I do) well. They can also stone curse you since you want to take them out fast. If you play for long ball your dmg won't be good enough to kill them within that 1-2 second window. Now if the champ uses full asura build and does this we have no chance what so ever. If we got 2 handed they wouldn't even need to asura they could just toss. Sniper lost horribly.

Sniper vs Prof.

Sniper can arrow shower the prof out of wall of fog then continue spamming. Sniper can arrow repel the person. If the prof uses rsx they will have a hard time using skills but can just melee. They have the option of gtbing which is unfair but meh, I main both sniper and prof over any other class and I can still handle it. Option for prof is to stave if they have the wand. They can't really strip them or get close. And they can't dmg him well either. But well guess what mr prof. You just pulled a major bonus on your part. Your keeping that guy on gtb. So since prof is a balanced support/battle class it's meant to be used with a party so now your party will rape the sniper. Sniper is on even ground even while gtbing.

Sniper vs Clown.

The sniper and once again try to push back and will have an advantage for 2 seconds till they get into range and they need to push em back again. If the clown rsx's the clown can break/stone curse/coma/dispel/half their attack. And can use the spam from the sniper to increase their spam on the sniper. If the sniper lost its shield vs this class it would die in two spams of an av from any noob. Right now on equal footing only if they use range to their ability Sniper will loose if rsx is on.

Sniper vs Pally.

Only way to kill them is through strip. Pally is a support class not much it can do. I'll call this a wash since if your on a pally your not trying to pvp all that much.

Sniper vs Priest.

[ Same as above. ]

Sniper vs Stalker.

Stalker can strip....even if they're fcped they can wait 10 minutes and strip again. They also have more reducts than any class and can copy any skill they want. The sniper can arrow shower but the stalker can get into stalk before you can even damage him. The sniper has to wait for stalker to come to him try to arrow repel if that fails ankle snare and try to get some dmg in before they resume the hiding. Stalker has advantage in this case.

Sniper vs Whitesmith.

Whitesmiths spamming ability fast walking ability amount to carry tons of yggs while pumping out a damn good amount of damage way outdoes snipers. Vsing a good whitesmith the sniper will always loose. But if its a regularly geared person the sniper will obviously win just because of ankle snare and the fact they can only cloack if sinx carded. - Wash

Sniper vs Alchemist

Alchemist can destroy your armor then drop you in a heartbeat. If the sniper uses rsx they got low hp and are prone to stripping/decrease agility combo. Also they can bolt them. Once they use gtb + rsx combo your dmg with ad will once again over flood them. + Alchemist has amounts of yggs and seeds also. Alchemist will win lol hard as you may believe.

Sniper vs Ninja.

Oh god instant loss no reason to even explain. Only ninja out there is mike and he'll fuckin butt rape anyone in a 1v1.

Sniper vs Gunslinger.

Gunslinger is a perfect example of what this class will return to. Good damage. Die in two hits. Sniper wins easy vs gunslinger atm. Only reason gunslinger doesn't have a one handed valk weapon is because their desperado would be godly over powered. And once it does come out you will all resume your bitching instead of using a detale card.

Because of their uselessness im not going to go on. You should see the point. Instead of just thinking in your own mind that they are on the top now.

[L2Aim]

Hi, WoT incoming.

The ranged strip is as far as most other classes are able to perform it (swords & spears are 2 tiles), no advantage there.

Anyway, Snipers have been a hard to play class in the beginning, when you had to switch all of your gears all the time to survive thanas, asuras, tss spams and magic, oh you have to attack in between.

Back in the 2-handed days that meant you had to hotkey everything and you wouldn't have enough hotkeys (I never had enough), so dragging items from time-to-time or using consumables the clicky way too.

It was all possible to do that, though it required a decent amount of effort, yet the old system made it doable and balanced the way it was back then.

Now that it's made easier to play snipers, more people are playing them. Good, that totally was the intention of all the changes done in the past.

There is somewhat class balance, but yea I know about the ninjas, mage classes and the like, don't bring that up, it's not the discussion point.

People have looked beyond Assassin Cross', Champion & Swordsman classes and the ranged are gaining some popularity.

It may appear that Snipers are overkill, but Juan already mentioned that we are almost completely shut down by 1 skill (pneuma, there's an accessory card for it too btw, you know that right?) and RSX armors totally make our charge arrow/phantasmic arrow/skid traps useless.

Bringing up other traps is also a joke, after the change that somehow disabled ranged stripping, traps also got messed up, pushing them around with immaterial only and trap health of a stunningly 2.5k-3.5k health (1 Magnum Break destroys them).

Thus Snipers needed a new way to defend themselves and 1-Handed bows were created. Shockingly, they survive all of the previous 1-hit skills and now it is also the other classes that have to swap items more and more to be able to counter this 'overpowered' class.

Are Snipers overpowered? Perhaps, I'm not the one to decide on that, but people wanted competitive game play and you've got what you wanted.

Snipers are very easy to counter and most of the people only use half of their real arsenal of skills, not because they're useless, but because the leetpewpewmeter isn't spiking when using those skills.

Utility and using the right tools also is a component of any battle strategy, being afraid or too proud to use any means necessary isn't the fault of your enemy who does use it all, but your own, there's no pride in fighting/killing even if it's 'just a game'.

Back to my first point, things have changed, the source is different now, the whole ranged stripping is gone (my personal old play style), coma chances are nerfed to the ground (uh yea, that I abused too), without stripping the SK card has lost it's use for snipers in general too (again, guilty) and because of the survivability of most classes, people can use GTBs are their default shield card which renders other magic skills, ie dispel & agi down, useless (what can I say, I had 6 status bows?). This whole play style is GONE, it was defensive and semi-focused on handicapping your enemy to overcome the difference in strength and survivability.

Trap whoring, also became pretty much useless, not only that, most other traps besides the skid & ankle snares were basically useless anyway (except the always sexy mana drain stacking against full asura champs :3).

The damage is laughable and it's utility is gone with the immunity to almost every status alignment, our falcon is merely eye candy, because admit, it's damage is even worse than a wizard poking a def stacked paladin.

Clue of this story? Stop looking back, comparing with the past, we live now, today and tomorrow (if you don't die that is). People always overcome hardships by adapting to new systems, not by crying till you get what you want (this ain't blizzard ya know). RO was and always will & should be a game that's focussed around teams and will never obtain true balance on any high rate server either.

Making Soarings 2-Handed and adding reductions stats to it is semi-acceptable, but don't cry when snipers will go full reducts again (because that will be possible again).

At some point, other people's care cup will also be empty, because they moved on.

Snipers are fine the way they are and the soaring is fine the way it is. If the old system would be fixed (ranged stripping, traps becoming useful, falcon becoming useful yadayada etcetc) then I could agree on making snipers more vulnerable again(2-Handed bows instead of 1-Handed), as they'd have a clear advantage against the rest. For now, just abuse your assassin cross cards, pneuma, RSX, reducts and play together. Think out of the box and you're solution will be right in front of you. The current play style is damaging and purely offensive, use & abuse it and don't be ashamed to brings friends.

I respect all your views & opinions, I did not intend to personally attack anyone, so please don't have grudges, misplaced feelings or whatever negative emotion you have in mind.

[nines]

So basically everything i've said before.

[kax]

I respect all your views & opinions, I did not intend to personally attack anyone, so please don't have grudges, misplaced feelings or whatever negative emotion you have in mind.

For that, you have my respect =)

Edited March 10, 2011 by kax

[supream]

Sniper vs Ninja.

Oh god instant loss no reason to even explain. Only ninja out there is mike and he'll fuckin butt rape anyone in a 1v1.

yap, you dont have a ghost of a chance.

[Phenomenon]

Hi, WoT incoming.

The ranged strip is as far as most other classes are able to perform it (swords & spears are 2 tiles), no advantage there.

Anyway, Snipers have been a hard to play class in the beginning, when you had to switch all of your gears all the time to survive thanas, asuras, tss spams and magic, oh you have to attack in between.

Back in the 2-handed days that meant you had to hotkey everything and you wouldn't have enough hotkeys (I never had enough), so dragging items from time-to-time or using consumables the clicky way too.

It was all possible to do that, though it required a decent amount of effort, yet the old system made it doable and balanced the way it was back then.

Now that it's made easier to play snipers, more people are playing them. Good, that totally was the intention of all the changes done in the past.

There is somewhat class balance, but yea I know about the ninjas, mage classes and the like, don't bring that up, it's not the discussion point.

People have looked beyond Assassin Cross', Champion & Swordsman classes and the ranged are gaining some popularity.

It may appear that Snipers are overkill, but Juan already mentioned that we are almost completely shut down by 1 skill (pneuma, there's an accessory card for it too btw, you know that right?) and RSX armors totally make our charge arrow/phantasmic arrow/skid traps useless.

Bringing up other traps is also a joke, after the change that somehow disabled ranged stripping, traps also got messed up, pushing them around with immaterial only and trap health of a stunningly 2.5k-3.5k health (1 Magnum Break destroys them).

Thus Snipers needed a new way to defend themselves and 1-Handed bows were created. Shockingly, they survive all of the previous 1-hit skills and now it is also the other classes that have to swap items more and more to be able to counter this 'overpowered' class.

Are Snipers overpowered? Perhaps, I'm not the one to decide on that, but people wanted competitive game play and you've got what you wanted.

Snipers are very easy to counter and most of the people only use half of their real arsenal of skills, not because they're useless, but because the leetpewpewmeter isn't spiking when using those skills.

Utility and using the right tools also is a component of any battle strategy, being afraid or too proud to use any means necessary isn't the fault of your enemy who does use it all, but your own, there's no pride in fighting/killing even if it's 'just a game'.

Back to my first point, things have changed, the source is different now, the whole ranged stripping is gone (my personal old play style), coma chances are nerfed to the ground (uh yea, that I abused too), without stripping the SK card has lost it's use for snipers in general too (again, guilty) and because of the survivability of most classes, people can use GTBs are their default shield card which renders other magic skills, ie dispel & agi down, useless (what can I say, I had 6 status bows?). This whole play style is GONE, it was defensive and semi-focused on handicapping your enemy to overcome the difference in strength and survivability.

Trap whoring, also became pretty much useless, not only that, most other traps besides the skid & ankle snares were basically useless anyway (except the always sexy mana drain stacking against full asura champs :3).

The damage is laughable and it's utility is gone with the immunity to almost every status alignment, our falcon is merely eye candy, because admit, it's damage is even worse than a wizard poking a def stacked paladin.

Clue of this story? Stop looking back, comparing with the past, we live now, today and tomorrow (if you don't die that is). People always overcome hardships by adapting to new systems, not by crying till you get what you want (this ain't blizzard ya know). RO was and always will & should be a game that's focussed around teams and will never obtain true balance on any high rate server either.

Making Soarings 2-Handed and adding reductions stats to it is semi-acceptable, but don't cry when snipers will go full reducts again (because that will be possible again).

At some point, other people's care cup will also be empty, because they moved on.

Snipers are fine the way they are and the soaring is fine the way it is. If the old system would be fixed (ranged stripping, traps becoming useful, falcon becoming useful yadayada etcetc) then I could agree on making snipers more vulnerable again(2-Handed bows instead of 1-Handed), as they'd have a clear advantage against the rest. For now, just abuse your assassin cross cards, pneuma, RSX, reducts and play together. Think out of the box and you're solution will be right in front of you. The current play style is damaging and purely offensive, use & abuse it and don't be ashamed to brings friends.

I respect all your views & opinions, I did not intend to personally attack anyone, so please don't have grudges, misplaced feelings or whatever negative emotion you have in mind.

Felt this deserved a repost, even after only a few short hours, because of how well demonstrated his point is made.

Edited March 10, 2011 by Phenomenon

[kuoch]

Thank you Raph. For pointing that all out. I just wanted an honest opinion from everyone and views. Yours really made a different output of things, for how I think of it now.

[Ekeos]

If snipers were to be reverted to old style. You would all just want them to be nerfed even further. Kind of the main reason they were nerfed even when they didn't have a shield. Now that they have a shield and have been brought from useless back into little glory you all want them to go back to useless again. A 20 - 30% dmg reduction that your suggesting Chris would just make it class do do 15k with fas if the person has any reducts on. Nines, Juan, And Raph are all right on point with their examples. And they're all basically on don't change anything and have been giving tons of good examples as to why not change anything. While as Nines has gone like an idiot just ruining his image even further trolled out the point of less qq more pew pew.

[Adamxd]

I totally agree. STEAL THEIR SHIELDS PLZ!

[Apo]

omagad wat iz dis, i uz 2 be aybool 2 keel snapors nao i cnt, diz iz op, fix plz

[Rayray]

The trend in FRO is whenever a lot of people use a class already, they seem overpowered. I like the change on snipers actually. although, yes they are pain in the ass now, much like clowns before them, much like champs that asura+warp in for_field, much like sinx who SB+backslide, much like Stalkers who spam Strip, much like profs that hit you with 20k+ bolts. My point is, every class is overpowered or seems overpowered at some point.

Although people who are thinking Snipers are overpowered now seem a little off to me. Remember when champs can Thana TSS you to death? Or when the soul link for sinx give 50% more damage(I used to have 30k++ sb each using incant on people with shields that time). Snipers do what damage now on people with shields? let us say, 35k x2. that is not a lot compared to 30k x8.

I have only seen 2 people play Sniper EFFECTIVELY when they only got 2 handed bows, that is L2aim and Nick(iHunt).

[supream]

i use to play sniper good i guess with 2 handed bows. always lost to clowns and magic classes tho.

[Kayleigh]

I doubt this topic was made to demonstrate who was/is the best sniper, because it's not like their opinions count the most. The gameplay is for everyone and everyone has an equal opinion.

I agree that Snipers aren't overpowered. And I really loved this change to one-handed bows. But what's extremely ridiculous is the range of FAS. Why can it go allll the way in one line? It pretty much hits the wall of the map. That's something that has to be changed.

[Yeung]

Personally, I think all these new Valkyrie weapons kinda ruined the game.

Either way, simply put if you take the shields from Snipers they're gonna suck again defense wise. That's just how it is on this server, for any class that uses 2hd weapons.

R.I.P Gunslinger. qq

[Annie ♥]

Snipers are beast if you know how to play the right way, which alot of "pro" snipers don't these days..

[Adamxd]

But sniper does insane damage + range atacks + range strips + reducts on bow. Sinx = shitty dmg + shitty defense + no reducts + atacks next to enemy. I dont know why you don't see that range atacks are fucking good abillity, and when ragnarok was being created, RO Team for sure thought same as me : range atacks =less reduction. Sniper now is just perfect class, give them fcp skill and we're done. Stop saying that there are only 3 good snipers or so, because it doesn't mean sniper sucks. People suck, not class. Ah and one more thing: every bow should be 2h.

Edited March 11, 2011 by Adamxd

[nines]

But sniper does insane damage + range atacks + range strips + reducts on bow. Sinx = shitty dmg + shitty defense + no reducts + atacks next to enemy.

It's easy to tell all you do is whine and whine.

[Adamxd]

And all you do, you are suggesting boost for class that you currently play lol. all for yourself.

[Ravage]

Simple is genius, I agree with the suggestion. The suggestion supports what the sniper class already is/was instead of implementing complicated solutions.

Snipers WERE naturally defensive with their skills via distance(knock back) & traps. Its attack skills' range is long enough to be used as defense against certain skills. However, they did lack in reducs without the shield. Something like 20% reducs from SB instead of a shield would probably sufficient with rebuffed traps?

Also, I believe that sniper's attack power is lacking because its skills are not as overwhelming as skills that stack like SB/AV/SPIRAL/Magic; neither does it do insane amounts of damage like asura that you cant heal/ygg/seed/pot. The sniper's lack of attack power forces some snipers to use strategies that are inappropriate for a long ranged class. Because we try to make sniper into something it isnt, we've had to endure complicated solutions such as such as messing around with strip distance, one hand bows, bow that does strip, and i'm still waiting on the dagger..? I mean, its kind of fun, but does it work? Not really for everyone...

I believe Snipers could be better for everyone by taking it back to the basics and supporting what it is.

[Drax]

Snipers are fine how they are now, they were the most underpowered class for several years when the bow was 2 handed nobody even played sniper because you would die in 5 seconds from any class because everyone had a shield except you I think its time that they had some fun and can actually PvP.

[Yeung]

Ah and one more thing: every bow should be 2h.

Can you say that one more time? I didn't hear that bro. D:

Either way, instead of having 2h weapon wielders also have a shield, I think you should just add defense to the weapon itself ( Magical AND Physical ).

Edited March 12, 2011 by Yeung

[Guest lolensue]

ok me go inside da suggestion too, ok. I have seen lots of movies with archers having bow and arrow with shield on their left hand. ok enough with the crazy hint talk.

we know about each's pros and cons.

Could snipers wear gtb if their bow is 2handed? literally no. So we'll talk about snipers vs prof. Prof literally owns snipers in that way because of blinding mist+double cast+spam bolts=obvious win.

Snipers were given the change of having shields because they need the reducts, they need defense against magic types.

The only thing that we could go for is changing the weap by its bonuses. Not by changing it to a 2hand thing.

We could go nerf them with their HP bonus and etc.

Its just in my opinion. The damage is not that extreme by the way of snipers.