CrimToo Posted January 27, 2011 Report Posted January 27, 2011 I've heard many people say, in so many words, how Fro is supposed to be balanced, and proportional to lower rate servers in terms of WoE and PvP. Many have complained of the capability of 2-3 Assassin Crosses charging into your Emp room and breaking while tanking a guild of 30+ people. Breaking during woe SHOULD about taking your Entire Guild into a castle and PvPing your way to the Emp room. Does anyone else not notice that NOBODY fights in any other castle rooms other than the entrance and the Emp room? We could improve the usefulness of several classes by increasing the threshold of all stats for preventing status changes, i.e Whitesmith using Hammerfall to Stun breakers around the emperium. Status effects such as stun, curse, silence, blind, and sleep have all become obsolete and completely unuseable against anyone on the server that isn't either a complete newbie or not maximum level yet. I'm all for innovation, but I can't help but feel we have failed to reinvent the wheel here. What these thresholds are increased to will need to be discussed in detail. My own opinion may be too biased towards particular classes. We don't want to mess up necessary stat builds for anybody too terribly much. But I do indeed feel a change is needed in the way SOME classes operate, or are able to operate, in WoE and PvP.
nines Posted January 27, 2011 Report Posted January 27, 2011 Ur opinion isn't biased towards particular classes. It's just biased as shit. What your suggesting is another source edit. Which won't be done and doesn't need to be done.
Rayray Posted January 27, 2011 Report Posted January 27, 2011 If we do that, even if most WS do mediocre damage on people with shields, CT stuns, and I mean it STUNS A LOT. I agree with Nines, it is biased as not all characters can use those status effects. If we did do it, imagine snipers and stalkers using status arrows now. For that matter, grimtooth sinxs(if they equip an arrow, its effect will go to grimtooth). Your suggestion would not help, it would actually make some sinx,clowns and snipers stronger than ever before.
Terroryst Posted January 27, 2011 Report Posted January 27, 2011 In a HR server, status effects such as stun and sleep could easily turn the tide of a battle. Gypsies with their version of Frost Joker spamming stun, Whitesmiths spamming hammer, Champs using a wrench until they stun their enemies then speed asura them? Not to mention silence basically makes the character obsolete unless they're a sinx.
CrimToo Posted January 27, 2011 Author Report Posted January 27, 2011 But the offending classes could be affected just as easily. None of you looked at anything else I said. Everyone would have to change their stats around. Defending and breaking alike would have to change. Without stun, for example, some classes have skills that are completely useless. It wouldn't need to be changed by much, but allowing the changes to exist, and still be easily enough prevented by changing either gears or stats would allow more classes to be usable in more ways than they currently are. I don't see how that could possibly be a bad thing. I think you just don't like the idea of charging an Emp room by yourself becoming impossible. It shouldn't be possible to begin with. Nobody should be able to tank an entire guild while breaking an Emp with 250m hp. Turning the tide of battle is exactly the idea. It should NOT just be about spamming yggs. We should all be using our entire guilds for breaking as well as defending. If you're worried about becoming obsolete by yourself, trying breaking with more members of your guild and see what happens. When was the last time anyone has tried killing everyone in their way instead of just speed potting straight to the Emp? When did WoE lose so much of its strategic element? Using stun as an example again..needing an extra 20 VIT (or INT, I believe, in the case of Silence and Sleep) or so could make all the difference in becoming immune to it; or having to use a different shield, further solving issues with having too many reductions. It seems to be a relatively simple change that could help make WoE and PvP to be not so much about pure damage. ZerO25 and Terroryst...How many White Smiths do you see on avg in WoE? Also, you are DEAD wrong about not all classes being able to use those effects. There is a card to go on weapon or armor for EVERY SINGLE EFFECT. Each and every one of them is easily accessible to anybody. I think the stun effect would balance out their "Mediocre" CT damage. They weren't given that skill to use for no reason. When was the last time u saw an Assassin Cross using Grimtooth to either help break or defend? Think about it. Nines..calling me biased as shit does you no good.
Terroryst Posted January 27, 2011 Report Posted January 27, 2011 You're only talking about WoE when you should be talking about the entire server gameplay.
supream Posted January 27, 2011 Report Posted January 27, 2011 comparing a private server's woe to the official servers woe is stupid. we have about 200 people playing, more or less, and the official server has like 20k or something, not for sure on that. even so, having a guild were there is 65 people on all stuffed in the emp room isn't the best idea cause it would lag everyone. they would split up into groups ofr 5 or something to break and leave 40 people or so to defend all the castle rooms. even when they did this the main mass of their guild was in the emp room. since there is only about 30 or less people on for the larger guilds, which only about 2 or 3 people have that many on, about 90% of them have to stay in the emp room while they send their best breakers and maybe a few support characters out to help them break.
Masahiro Posted January 27, 2011 Report Posted January 27, 2011 (edited) lol crim id love if status effects were implemented, on low rates i had a lot more strategy because of them sadly on high rates i can see myself taking advantage of these things even if for argument's sake they had a 5-10 sec effect max, that's enough for me to cause serious damage as a sniper i could perpetually keep you muted with mute arrow and you wouldn't be able to do anything about it, i can use curse arrow and you'll b inflicted with bleed, curse and not to mention probable coma. stun, sleep all of these just add to the long and probable list of enormous negativity that could seriously cripple pvp hey if you can find a way to make it work then i'm behind you, because its hella fun to use strategy beside just switching armor/ gear, i personally was a murderer on low rates with status inflicting characters such as sniper and lk, if joint beat gave me the 2x damage effect that would topple everything by itself lol the major difference why i don't think this would have the desired effect you'd like it to have is namely the Aspd factor available to us on high rates, with it status inflicting moves and skills can become or lead to a sure kill. stun alone would own at Woe, and minimum all you'd need is a WS to hammer fall everything at the entrance. but as i said, if this finds a way to work then by all means..im just a bit skeptical myself though i'd love if it COULd work and not be an overly negative thing. edit: i just read the posts above while if this could work it would be cool, crim on a low-er rate having more vit would balance out the status effect, 99 vit = immunity but higher vit would make status effects have a shorter duration. however. if what is proposed above saying for example there would be a set stat point for total immunity (because there would have to be one), then i can only see Lord Knights, Paladins and few other classes really benefiting from it because ratio to ratio it would make sence that 300 vit would be the stat to achieve for total immunity to stat effects, most classes cannot dare achieve this as they would lose vital stats elsewhere. and should they make so bold a sacrifice, thanatos Card will utterly destroy them. on a low rate where status effects had their mark in tactical gameplay, on this higher rate where virtually every card is accessible unlike there it replaces the efficiency and the direct need for some builds entirely. its just a sad fact of high rates if this suggestion were modified somehow to say during woe times, status effects could happen at an extremely LOWWW chance, like thana drop card low, then that might be a bit better. but even then, things could get murky and unfair really quickly and again this is source editing.. Edited January 27, 2011 by Masahiro
Rayray Posted January 28, 2011 Report Posted January 28, 2011 Um, we can all create WS and fuck the server up if this happens. Not only WS, but Clowns and Snipers would destroy pvp. Most magic classes won't be able to use those effects, and quite frankly, even if they have the cards for it, they have to melee for it to happen Silence.. That would make my priest so happy.
nines Posted January 28, 2011 Report Posted January 28, 2011 Anyone using a lod card would be gay as hell.
Perishable Posted January 28, 2011 Report Posted January 28, 2011 I disagree with this suggestion. I think it'll be too much. Like what Terroryst had stated. In a HR server, status effects such as stun and sleep could easily turn the tide of a battle. Gypsies with their version of Frost Joker spamming stun, Whitesmiths spamming hammer, Champs using a wrench until they stun their enemies then speed asura them? Not to mention silence basically makes the character obsolete unless they're a sinx.Especially, champions. Some status, you can't even yggs. You get killed by Speed Asura Strike.
Adum* Posted January 28, 2011 Report Posted January 28, 2011 lol i dont really care bout this suggestion. but i just want to point out that there are cards that prevent certain status ailments. so, blahhh...*shoot self* have fun pipol
Terroryst Posted January 28, 2011 Report Posted January 28, 2011 Nobody's going to want to give up their kiels lol
Adum* Posted January 28, 2011 Report Posted January 28, 2011 oh! gen might see this as a chance to get more donation. say, if they implement this, people will start getting anti-status ailment armors/status-inflicting weapons. yay more donation for gen!(oh, well that is, if there are those who dont want to sacrifice much of their stats) lol iono. i gave up on hoping that status ailment will be implemented to this server - i believed there will be more variety in pvp/woe. but mehh. *shoot self*
CrimToo Posted January 29, 2011 Author Report Posted January 29, 2011 The point would be to make them available but still easily preventable. You wouldn't need to give up kiels to break, for example, its all melee attacking. In terms of general game play outside of woe and pvp, the change would need to be slight enough that it didn't mess anyone else' build up too badly. However, there is always something one needs to compromise to win, and so you must compensate for that using something else. Why NOT have to give up a headgear/Kiel to stay alive, instead of just seeing who can spam the fastest. Aside from Cards, we have items for these effects too. Green potions, panaceas, etc., these things cure most status ailments. I also like the idea of implementing a very low chance of them occurring, maybe regardless of the stats. ...Zero your idiocy never ceases to amaze me! If we made changes, and everyone became a WS, Sniper, or Clown/Gypsy, everyone would have to make the same changes to compensate for being affected by ailments. Wizards would not be affected by sleep or silence or stun, due to high INT, and high-ish VIT, if only so that they otherwise have a decent amount of hp. Champs and Priests can get rid of several ailments by themselves using their own skills. Sacrificing a little (maybe 20) of your main stat to support another in order to prevent stun, or sleep, or whatever it is you're most worried about, wouldn't kill you! In the case of wizards again, they have their weaknesses just like any other class. If you're someone that plays a wizard class you won't be able to use them as easily, this is true, but you wouldn't be affected by most of them either due to your regular stat build. I highly doubt everyone will want to make a smith to rape the server with, there are plenty of classes that will do that just fine with OR without the changes. If my memory serves me correctly, its only VIT, INT, AND DEX that affect which effects will ail you. STR, and AGI are irrelevant, and the only think LUK affects is freeze but you need like 300 or so to prevent it, making it pointless to have anywhere near that much LUK anyway. Donation gears that make these happen sound lame even to me. Scratch that idea! Coma already exists and works just fine at a very low chance, stfu nines!
L2Aim Posted January 29, 2011 Report Posted January 29, 2011 Source modifications aren't an option for a while though, so this whole suggestion will most likely be tossed aside. Not to bash the suggestion itself (I love(d) status effects), just giving a heads up.
Rayray Posted January 29, 2011 Report Posted January 29, 2011 And you are still bashing on everyone that thinks it's a bad idea... EVERYONE had to compensate. EXACTLY. But not everyone would be able to have an advantage over it. I still see the weaker classes won't be able to get anything from it, it will still make other classes stronger.(a reducts stalker having bash and stuns is fun though, i must admit) My point is, on low rates, using status ailments and defending against them(including switching armors and weapons) is how you win most of your fights. putting it on high rate might not be so great. P.S. Just because other people pawned you(A LOT) doesn't mean that we need to adjust to you. Just because you cannot defend a castle well enough means we need to change to low-rate environment.
CrimToo Posted January 29, 2011 Author Report Posted January 29, 2011 I bashed your idea, you're bashing me. Big difference. You know nothing apparently. I hear ya raph, but still fun to talk about xD, especially when ppl like zero here are so blind to its possibilities! It could make everyone stronger!
Rayray Posted January 30, 2011 Report Posted January 30, 2011 Yes, it could make your weak ass characters stronger. It won't balance out on this one. Weak classes would get advantage with this, but so is the stronger classes so we didn't balance it. Normally, I would agree on this, if it was suggested 2-3 years earlier.
HealHard Posted January 30, 2011 Report Posted January 30, 2011 Each server i played had its own mechanics. Some of them had +100 equips and 4 slots in all armors, others were hardly customised... i saw it all. and when you like the server it means you like the mechanics it offers. ForsakenRO has its own style and its about Yggs, kiels and other stuff. If you like it, then stay and enjoy your time as i do. otherwise leave please, i like the way things are.
zac Posted January 31, 2011 Report Posted January 31, 2011 While it may be true that FRO has its own style.. I think this can be introduced still. I say raise the minimum required vit to nullify these effects to 150 - 160.. This would force people to add more vit, compramising other stats, or cause people to make a choice to use less vit and suffer risk. In addition to this change, maybe reduce the rate at which these effects may cast. I dont see why we cant increase the threshold as Crim said. Nothing is wrong with that. Its just people are too afraid of change and qq. the change doesnt even have to big , it could even be 140 vit.
Masahiro Posted January 31, 2011 Report Posted January 31, 2011 While it may be true that FRO has its own style.. I think this can be introduced still. I say raise the minimum required vit to nullify these effects to 150 - 160.. This would force people to add more vit, compramising other stats, or cause people to make a choice to use less vit and suffer risk. In addition to this change, maybe reduce the rate at which these effects may cast. I dont see why we cant increase the threshold as Crim said. Nothing is wrong with that. Its just people are too afraid of change and qq. the change doesnt even have to big , it could even be 140 vit. i like the idea of this..its not TOO high to say thana will start to take an overly abusive toll (as if it wont already) and even if it wasnt, as crim and i were discussing in-game effects such as blind, poison, curse etc can still be implimented with close to no REAL abusive penalty to the players stun, mute and others can be highly advantageous, but these minor ones may have strategic roles in events such as woe. e.g blinding someone will prvent them seeing whats ahead and they may not be able to prepare for x, y, z ahead etc etc curse can be used to slow down in addition to slow grace and quagmire etc etc poison can also be useful to an extent, if coma casts on a person who is coma'd by a clown manually casting it, it may make the difference etc etc (idk lets try to make these things work, bring some strategy in this regard back into this game)
Adum* Posted January 31, 2011 Report Posted January 31, 2011 +1 for blind, curse, poison and oh! SLEEP! LOL
Masahiro Posted February 2, 2011 Report Posted February 2, 2011 +1 for blind, curse, poison and oh! SLEEP! LOL Lolol sleep is rape XD
Kusanagi Posted February 7, 2011 Report Posted February 7, 2011 Ur opinion isn't biased towards particular classes. It's just biased as shit. What your suggesting is another source edit. Which won't be done and doesn't need to be done. I'm seriously getting sick of how you believe something works when you don't have a clue lol. It changes depending on your configuration but ALL emulators hold files that regulates the behavior of status effects, among them theres a particular "Configuration" that regulates whats the required vit/luk rate to gain immunity as well as the maximum resistance to status. Besides source edit is no other than a C coding if thats your concern, its not hard, its not an issue and for gods sakes: THATS NOT THE CASE HERE. Back to the idea: Im not sure that would work, I mean things like asura strikers may have a lot of problems (Status immunity require headgear compounded cards) ... not to mention many of the status effects have terrifying effects and they are easy to spam in a high rate environment, the problem its not possibility is just that it would be incredibly hard to regulate, Stun completely nulifies Flee, silence is easy to abuse, sleep is somewhat balanced but then again yes this would be rather hard to control. I'm afraid this cant be done here.
