Clown Soaring Bird

[Xtopher]

As I see more and more of these bows come into play I feel that I can not be the only one that feels it is a bit over powered.

For Gypsy/Bard:

Agi + 25, Dex + 25

+20% damage to demihumans

+20% damage with double strafe

30% Chance of auto-casting Lv. 5 Tarot Card of Fate when being attacked (or

attacking)

The agi/dex/+20%'s are fine.... but the 30% chance of automatically casting Tarot Card of Fate seems like a little much to me. A clown can slap on any reflect gear while just standing still and if you're hitting it the bow will kill you alone. I'm all for boosting classes and for fair balance but this seems a little overboard to me that a weapon can do all the killing without any input from the user. They don't even have to target you to kill you. Of course you can default gtb when attacking, but any decent clown would either take this opportunity to spam Double Strafe or quickly switch to instrument and use Vulcan Arrow doing tons of damage.

I would like to suggest that the 30% auto cast be nerfed down to 5% and in return give clowns 10% more hp and sp.

You're thoughts and contributions are much appreciated!

[Perishable]

It's fine as it is right now. Leave the 30%. The only overpowered thing about it is attacking while also casting Lv. 5 Tarot. It should only be casting Lv.5 Tarot at 30% when taking hits only. Once it is fix, it won't be overpowered anymore. 5% is too low so I have to disagree. We need that clown, since Sniper Soaring and Stalker soaring is way much better than that. Fixing the effect to what the weapon should really gives is all that is needed.

[Xtopher]

Leaving it at 30% when being hit is going to leave it just as over powered. How is any class supposed to truly fight you if you're automatically throwing up tarot cards at a 30% chance while simultaneously doing damage. The opponent won't even have a chance to berry when the coma card pops up and if he dares where GTB he's toast.... I just don't agree with the fact that the weapon can do all the work for you...

[jorgesilvera]

Agree.

[kax]

It's fine as it is right now. Leave the 30%. The only overpowered thing about it is attacking while also casting Lv. 5 Tarot. It should only be casting Lv.5 Tarot at 30% when taking hits only. Once it is fix, it won't be overpowered anymore. 5% is too low so I have to disagree. We need that clown, since Sniper Soaring and Stalker soaring is way much better than that. Fixing the effect to what the weapon should really gives is all that is needed.

for these reasons, i agree to disagree.

[Perishable]

Why complain about it now? It has been out for a long time. I don't really mind things get changed around. If you think that's balanced, then go for it.

[Xtopher]

I decided not to comment when it was first released because I felt it deserved a shot. I gave it time before making a conclusion, unlike a lot of people who jumped all over specific weapons complaining about them being "op". The thing is, I honestly do not feel this bow is balanced.

The stalker bow gave/gives nice damage reductions, sure.

The sniper bow gives the ability to use shield and do massive damage output, sure.

But the clown/gypsy bow does all the work for the user. All you have to do is slap on some basic generic reduction items and wait for coma... there's no skill required there... How is it fair for an opponent to just drop dead because of auto-coma?

I don't mind normal tarot as much because it requires the player to actually spam it on me and I can switch back and forth with Usak and GTB, it's not being automatically spammed while the clown/gypsy is also shooting me.

[Kittie]

You change tactics/strategy when a paladin starts uber reflecting, right?

Do the same against reflect clowns.

[jorgesilvera]

Did you guys remember the LKH before? was told that is not necesary coma on a pawefull weapon and got remobed. Why not we apply on this ?

[Xtopher]

You change tactics/strategy when a paladin starts uber reflecting, right?

Do the same against reflect clowns.

The two are very different.

1. Paladins don't reflect as many status effects as tarot does.

2. Paladins will never coma at as high a rate when attacking as the Soaring Bird does. Paladin reflect is the result of you hitting them, the Soaring bird auto casts Tarot when they are hitting you as well.

3. When you attack a reflect Paladin you can nerf your own damage or increase your own hp to counter the reflect, or even spam yggs. With coma you can not do this: It doesn't matter how much hp you have or how much damage you do, if you get coma auto casted on you and the Clown is shooting you then you WILL die. Hell, he doesn't even have to be shooting you if he's wearing any reflect damage items the reflected damage + coma card will instantly KO you.

4. Paladins do not have another strong source of self defense other than reflecting damage. Clowns can manually spam Tarot or Vulcan all day.

5. Paladins are easily stripped. You can divest their gear or even dispel their reflect. Clowns have a lot of dex and thus will be difficult to strip, and dispelling will do nothing.

[Ryuk]

Personally, I dont have any problems with this bow at all. Remember the 30% might seem high, but tarot card also fails a LOT. If it would've been 30% autocast with 100% succesrate then I would agree on it being overpowered.

A small nerf might be in place but the nerf you suggested is huge and makes the weapon useless. with that nerf it would be better at all times to wear an fguiter or fharp.

[Xtopher]

It's true that it fails a lot but at a 30% chance when being hit and while hitting it is successful enough to make a battle very one sided. The clown is spitting out ranged damage at 195 attack speed so he's landing multiple hits per second which makes this 30% chance a big deal and if he's being hit then the opponents quick hits will also trigger this 30% chance as well. To add more, if the clown is using any sort of reflect damage gear then each reflected piece of damage also has a 30% chance of triggering the Tarot because it is technically considered damage ouput via the Clown.

So to put this simply he's attacking with a 30% chance of Tarot, reflecting with a 30% chance of Tarot, and being attacked at a 30% chance at Tarot. The 30% may seem like a small percent chance but given our high attack speed and hits per second are so high it is pretty much as sure thing that you're going to be spammed with Tarot while fighting a clown.

Coma isn't the only crippling Tarot effect. The Clown is also zaping your sp, killing you attack power, breaking shields/helmets, stone cursing, and removing buffs/dispelling. I simply do not see how it is fair for the class to be able to automatically cast these status effects at such a rate.

If you think that my suggested changes are too harsh I can respect that but please provide more specific alternatives.

Honestly, I would have preferred it Clowns if had received a Valkyrie Guitar that boosted their damage/hp/sp a bit rather than a bow that can do all the fighting for the user.

Would really like to hear from more people. Keep the comments coming guys I appreciate it.

[nines]

I find it funny how people argue that its only 30% and that tarot fails some times....well yah that might be true but guess what when placed onto a weapon it doesn't fail....on my sniper bow its an 100% strip when strip is cast, when tarot is cast its an 100% chance to tarot.

And also you can't judge effects over what effects are in actual pvp the bow is gayer than any so far =.=

There should be draw backs for having the bow since it just attracts pussys to using it....(looks at the people defending)

[Ravage]

I agree. Tarot is worse than ranged strip with is variety of effects.

Also, I've experienced that tarot happens much more often than strip from the sniper SB head in normal atk VS normal atk.

[supream]

i just dont like coma. i also thought it was just for reflect not attacking too.

[Ryuk]

I find it funny how people argue that its only 30% and that tarot fails some times....well yah that might be true but guess what when placed onto a weapon it doesn't fail....on my sniper bow its an 100% strip when strip is cast, when tarot is cast its an 100% chance to tarot.

Clowns are not tarotting once every 3 hits averagely. Sorry but your information is wrong. Failing to cast and skill delay do kick in.

If you think that my suggested changes are too harsh I can respect that but please provide more specific alternatives.

Possible alternatives could me lowering the autocast tarot to 15% and adding dmg (15%) or survivability in the form of hp(10%). But 5% autocast would make the weapon way worse than a normal F guitar.

Honestly, I would have preferred it Clowns if had received a Valkyrie Guitar that boosted their damage/hp/sp a bit rather than a bow that can do all the fighting for the user.

I do agree with that. Edited November 16, 2010 by Ryuk

[Xtopher]

How about reducing the auto cast of Tarot Card to 10% only when attacking.

In addition we give 10% hp/sp and 20% more damage with bows (this would help in PVE as well as PVP).

Is this more agreeable?

Edited November 16, 2010 by Xtopher

[Angels&Demons]

Personally, I do think 30% change of casting tarot is too high. I doubt there is anyone here who hasn't died from coma off a tarot from a clown bow during WoE. And on that perspective, I suggest that the bow actually cast tarot when BEING attacked instead of WHEN ATTACKING. Add it with 10% hp and sp and 20% more damage from bow damage.

[Sorrow]

i find it strange...when the weapons were released, there were a lot of people really mad saying things on the lines of "give Clowns a REAL weapon! Can't Use Arrow Vulcan with bow *sadface*" ... and now...after individuals gave the bow a chance to prove its worth..."omg too OP auto tarot *sadface*"

i don't understand you guys really...its kinda obvious; if the weapon has no Arrow Vulcan potential, it needs to have a very attractive advantage to make up to that.

It's an okay weapon...i don't see any reason to change it at all. And i don't even play clown/gypsy...

i like the idea of fixing it to cast it only when being hit and not when attacking though...makes the bonus to double strifing kinda useless if all the guys are going to do is crtl+click to get lots of random tarots.

[HerLove]

It is over powered because there is no defence against it.To fight a clown with that you need to wear gtb and also get full chemical protection or risk your shield being broken then you comad. No class can defend against it without help from other class buffs and the worst thing is that ANY clown using it does not have to know very much because they simply have to auto attack.Pneuma does not even stop it from being auto casted even tho the arrows miss. That is over powered and anyone who says otherwise, I think, should post a detailed explanation as to how to defend against it properly without having to use multiple class buffs.As I see it there is no real way and that is why it should be changed.A reduction in the rate at which it is cast would be very helpful, 5% is good.

[Angels&Demons]

Even with a 5% chance of being cast, I still say no to it. I don't mind retaining the 30% chance, but make it so that it's only auto-cast when you're being attacked. Put HP and SP + 10% and 20% additional damage by bow type weapons should be able to compensate for the 30% of auto-cast when you're attacking. In this manner, when a clown / gypsy with a soaring bird is attacked, they'd be able to last longer and do damage with double strafe. With high dexterity and improve concentration, they'd still be able to do a good deal of damage, while auto-casting tarot by 5% when they're being attacked. This would then prevent the current clown / gypsies from going full reductions, ctrl + left click on someone, and wait for coma to strike. (This is what "defense" in WoE now actually is) That's the truth of it.

[DiEnd]

Playing against a clown with this bow isn't even PvP. It's Player vs Afk Ygger. Put on reducts, point, click attack. Occasionally ygg and you're golden. They gtb to stop your coma, you still out class them in damage, meanwhile you take little to none. Most clowns with this bow don't even use any other skills. The chance for tarot needs to be lessened, or removed all together. They have the skill already, so why make it autocast while being attacked, attacking, and any reflect damage? 30% is a little much considering Snipers got a 1% chance to strip and it happens all the time. Granted that's another bow, for another class but still. If were gonna nerf the weapons then all need to be balanced out.

[HealHard]

All the people who complain about the bow should remember that the bow has far more drawbacks then u mention.

1. While wearing a bow u cant use great deal of skills which limits strategy alot. No other class did recieve such "bonus" with new weaps

2. If opponent wears GTB and redux he has nothing much to worry. Most of people just ctrl-click. Can't you handle this?

3. Bow doesnt have Jupitel which means Pneuma saves from the bow despite the fact coma occures.

4. About "side" tarot effects: FCP is always a must in pvp. Everyone can WS or strip you. Its not just tarot.

5. 30% autocast is about what you get when you spam tarot manually with enough kiels.

If we remove the tarot on attack then this would happen: the bow user is almost useless vs people who spam Asuras,FAS,AV and so on. They hit you rarely and do great damage which means tarot almost never triggers. And you wait for death with not so great damage as other classes.

And about woe defence strategy: it changed now, so what? get your own bow and coma defenders! or attackers. and if ppl start default gtb Asura them! whats so bad about it? castles keep breaking despite the fact that the bow was released a long time ago. Get devo and dont fear coma.

So, leave this bow alone.

[supream]

well if thats the case then make it attack only then. what your saying is not true. if u attack and are being attacked its not like normal tarot spam. it think thats the biggest problem here.

[Kittie]

I hadn't played for a long time since the bow was released and more people do have it now, so I can realize it's OP-ness and OP-potential.

I rescind my first reply and now agree with reducing the auto-taroting chance.

In my opinion, this effect shouldn't even be added to the bow. Coming for a clown user myself who can definitely donate for a bow and get one myself, the tarot skill was already powerful enough on a high rate server in which kiel cards are easily accessible. Now it's added to a continuous attack at a 195 ASPD? That's insane - you choose to either die from a coma and then subsequential arrow that will follow in a split second, or you choose to die from switching to GTB and dying from a constant flurry of 8-10k hits or a string of AV's without usakoring to defend yourself.

I think when people suggested to have another attack other than AV, they meant a bow attack such as Double Strafe to get a boost on clown - much like the stalker boost. Double Strafe, unlike AV, can be spammed quickly which increases the damage potential of clowns.

Having tarot - their already coveted skill in terms of WOE and GVG - be auto casted is like giving them an automatic win in duels and GVG/WOE settings. It needs to be nerfed to 5%, 3% or even 1%. Given the high aspd on this server, you'll still see tarot being cast, but at least you'll have a chance to kill the clown before you get coma'd.

I would go even so far as to make this bow be 2-handed instead of 1-handed. It's ridiculous how much of an upper hand a clown gets from this.

Edited November 30, 2010 by Kittie