Sniper Suggestions

[L2Aim]

Hello everyone,

I'd like to share some of my thoughts about possible improvements in the way snipers play.

- Reinstate ranged stripping and previous coma chances/percentage for Snipers.

- Allow traps to be pushed around by Arrow Shower without them disappearing after 1 hit, I suggest 3-4 hits by Arrow Shower to be acceptable.

- Disable damage on traps (mainly Ankle Snare) to make them useful again.

- Disable Heavens Drive from removing the traps (mainly Ankle Snare), Land Protector/Magnetic Earth was made for this.

- Falcon damage still isn't where it should be, it's damage is still insignificant, I think around 20k damage with optimal Falcon Stats is a decent aim (done through Falcon Assault).

- Overall trap damage/utilitization (blast, claymore, landmine, flasher & sandman), this probably will require a formula edit.

If you want to criticize my suggestions, please do it with good arguments and the right reasons.

Just because you think, for example, increasing coma chance is lame, isn't a good reason.

Thanks for your time,

L2Aim

[nines]

#1 Ranged Strip I disagree on, The sniper soaring bird has a 1% chance for an 100% strip by people. If I had ranged strip I would ruin this game for everyone and fcp would be needed forever. Or for any sniper. I can see adding a chance for coma to the bows though since there are so many reducts around the server Coma is a need. I would say 1% Though.

#2 I also suggested adding more hp to the traps. But I would only like to see this for the Skid Trap. The ankle snare with to much hp would make woe way to long and way to tedious.

#3 No...Like I said it would ruin woe. No need to go into further detail thats more than enough explanation.

#4 You can actually put magnetic earth down and trap over it.....So I would say fix magnetic earth so it makes it so music spells get canceled when they get onto it and you can't trap over magnetic earth. But once magnetic earth is put down over existing traps they still remain in tact.

#5 I was also thinking that the falcons damage is pretty low. I would say make it so they do 2k Damage each hit assured 2k Each hit and blitz beat hits 5 times so thats 10k Damage. I know your talking about falcon assault but blitz beat is one of the main skills for a sniper. Its supposed to do quite a bit of damage for pvp, it should be upgraded to fit the high rate server.

#6 I would like to see traps do damage. Blast and Claymore should do around 20 - 30k damage each. I remember trap hunters in iRO you would think they would be bad but they made pvp hell x.x It would be nice to see traps play another roll in woe also.

[L2Aim]

#1 Ranged Strip I disagree on, The sniper soaring bird has a 1% chance for an 100% strip by people. If I had ranged strip I would ruin this game for everyone and fcp would be needed forever. Or for any sniper. I can see adding a chance for coma to the bows though since there are so many reducts around the server Coma is a need. I would say 1% Though.

#2 I also suggested adding more hp to the traps. But I would only like to see this for the Skid Trap. The ankle snare with to much hp would make woe way to long and way to tedious.

#3 No...Like I said it would ruin woe. No need to go into further detail thats more than enough explanation.

#4 You can actually put magnetic earth down and trap over it.....So I would say fix magnetic earth so it makes it so music spells get canceled when they get onto it and you can't trap over magnetic earth. But once magnetic earth is put down over existing traps they still remain in tact.

First of all, thanks for your reply and opinion.

About your thoughts about the sniper soaring bird & stripping, those thoughts are shared and also voiced in this suggestion topic,

where strip is replaced by endure to create a better way to escape stun locking skills.

About your 2,3&4, the things I suggested doesn't ruin WoE at all, Land Protector/Magnetic Earth isn't working the way it does and it could solve that trap problem.

On an existing Land Protector/Magnetic Earth no one should be able to cast/be affected by any AoE related skills (songs, magic, physical attacks, traps and what not).

If Land Protector/Magnetic Earth would do what it is supposed to do, there is no problem at all with altering the traps the way I suggested.

I agree with your other thoughts.

[sessions]

Hello everyone,

I'd like to share some of my thoughts about possible improvements in the way snipers play.

- Reinstate ranged stripping and previous coma chances/percentage for Snipers.

- Allow traps to be pushed around by Arrow Shower without them disappearing after 1 hit, I suggest 3-4 hits by Arrow Shower to be acceptable.

- Disable damage on traps (mainly Ankle Snare) to make them useful again.

- Disable Heavens Drive from removing the traps (mainly Ankle Snare), Land Protector/Magnetic Earth was made for this.

- Falcon damage still isn't where it should be, it's damage is still insignificant, I think around 20k damage with optimal Falcon Stats is a decent aim (done through Falcon Assault).

- Overall trap damage/utilitization (blast, claymore, landmine, flasher & sandman), this probably will require a formula edit.

If you want to criticize my suggestions, please do it with good arguments and the right reasons.

Just because you think, for example, increasing coma chance is lame, isn't a good reason.

Thanks for your time,

L2Aim

I agree with reinstating long range strip, if it as all possible I would like to see something like a max strip range of 5-7 cells. I also agree on coma.

Definitely agree with this.

I agree with removing damage on traps altogether, and it wouldn't ruin WoE because snipers/stalkers both can still remove traps.

Agree.

Both falcons and traps (other than ankle snare/skid trap) are pretty much worthless now it would be nice to see these actually be used in PvP. Especially since they are unique skills/abilities for sniper and they aren't able to utilize them.

[bankai`]

I disagree, be bless on what you already have, 1 hand bow hp increase for tao and now you want coma which you already do 40k FA and 23k DS you also want coma? Hell no the traps are fine also Sniper don't need a damage boost for shit and nines you should be well aware of that.

[nines]

The coma would only be effective on auto attack really vs reduct people. And the damage boost isn't for main stream skills its for auto attack and random traps.

[bankai`]

Well you do like 50k-70k FA on me I was using a good amount of reducts skolls etc you was still pulling off insane damage. I honestly think they need a nerf rather then a buff and focus on other classes that really need improvments.

[L2Aim]

Well you do like 50k-70k FA on me I was using a good amount of reducts skolls etc you was still pulling off insane damage. I honestly think they need a nerf rather then a buff and focus on other classes that really need improvments.

Falcon Assault damage isn't reduced by skolls though.

[Miku]

Well thats nines. Not everybody else. Other people do have problems just because one IE nines puts out a lot of damage doesn't mean everyone else does. So they could use buffs.

The suggestions made there wont directly effect the main skills used by a sniper, like nines said.

But also the coma does seem to be a little extreme since snipers do hit for quite a bit of time if anything on coma I would suggest maybe .50%?

But please stay on topic. Discuss only the suggestions made for this thread don't talk about any other class or any other skill.

[bankai`]

@L2aim like i said said even if it isn't effect by skoll I still think they don't need the damage boost and the only thing I could agree on is the traps Which there is only 2 traps skill that

works.

@Miku I'm not specifically applying this too nines I'm talking about most snipers in general that have decent gears and if I was saying this too snipers with noob gears snipers wouldn't this be godly to decent decent gear snipers? Abou he coma please don make this into another LK helberd weapons, coma someone on a range class you kidding me?

[sessions]

Well you do like 50k-70k FA on me I was using a good amount of reducts skolls etc you was still pulling off insane damage. I honestly think they need a nerf rather then a buff and focus on other classes that really need improvments.

I'm not exactly sure what reductions you have if you are wearing skolls and getting hit by 50-70k FAS. On a sinx with no shield I usually hit around 60k per FAS with my incant weapon, and about 25-30k on someone with a shield. Also there is almost always the option to use Stone Curse against a sniper using 3 kiels to spam FAS.

@L2aim like i said said even if it isn't effect by skoll I still think they don't need the damage boost and the only thing I could agree on is the traps Which there is only 2 traps skill thatworks.@Miku I'm not specifically applying this too nines I'm talking about most snipers in general that have decent gears and if I was saying this too snipers with noob gears snipers wouldn't this be godly to decent decent gear snipers? Abou he coma please don make this into another LK helberd weapons, coma someone on a range class you kidding me?

As of now Falcon Assault does like 6k damage, I don't see how buffing this skill would do any harm. As suggested an increase to around 20k per damage wouldn't make them any more powerful (especially considering the damage you take from FAS) it just opens up a new possibility that got killed simply because this is a High Rate.

For the coma I see your point. I would only want the coma rate at a very low chance, to give snipers a sort of last resort. Also coma on a range class (or any class) already exists. You just gotta throw some LoD's onto a bow and fire away.

[Xtopher]

I do not agree with ranged strip. Snipers get the highest dex in the game from what I understand. This means that they will almost instantly strip anyone who doesn't have at least 250 dex... and even those other classes with high dex (stalker/clown/gypsie/GS) will be divested very easily after a couple of seconds. Given the mass amounts of damage snipers can put out now I really don't think ranged strip is necessary.

I also disagree with adding coma to the weapon. If your excuse for adding coma is just "well there's people with reduction equipment" then EVERYONE should have coma chance on their weapon. I feel adding coma to the sniper weapon would be just as it was with LK (spitting out mass amount of damage from a range with the chance of coma) except with longer range and lower hp.

^I'm sorry, I'm all for class balance but I feel these two suggestions are a bit excessive/extreme/over powered.

I do like all of your trap suggestions though... they're very close to useless atm and it would be nice to see them effectively used.

[nines]

GIVE SNIPERS 50K MORE HP WE GOT SO LITTLE HP. I ONLY GOT 260K HP X.X

[bankai`]

Lmao I have 240k hp you should be happy with 250k lmao...

[Ravage]

- Reinstate ranged stripping and previous coma chances/percentage for Snipers.

Disagree, ranged strip will put too much of a disadvantage on melee characters. We cannot allow ranged strip as it will cause unbalance like it was before. Recoil from damage is more noticeable in a long range VS melee battle giving long range the upper hand. Long ranged strip would gain too large of an advantage because of this.

- Allow traps to be pushed around by Arrow Shower without them disappearing after 1 hit, I suggest 3-4 hits by Arrow Shower to be acceptable.

For all traps EXCEPT ankle snare, agree.

- Disable damage on traps (mainly Ankle Snare) to make them useful again.

Disagree. Would make snare a bit OP but it does need a bit more HP. Its like, there no choice but to go through every single snare when u cant destroy them.

- Disable Heavens Drive from removing the traps (mainly Ankle Snare), Land Protector/Magnetic Earth was made for this.

Agree. Magnetic earth has too large of an area covered. It took out too many traps in 1 go, since we have no gem requirement with fcloak, you can spam magnetic earth easily. Thats why it doesnt remove traps anymore. I didnt know heavens drive worked tho, and i dont think that should work on traps either. Its too easy to take out multiple traps with heavens drive. Magic class have sight blaster to damage traps.

- Falcon damage still isn't where it should be, it's damage is still insignificant, I think around 20k damage with optimal Falcon Stats is a decent aim (done through Falcon Assault).

Agree, the falcons are underpowered. Elemental choices for falcons maybe?? Recolors of the falcons would be sexy too +_+

- Overall trap damage/utilitization (blast, claymore, landmine, flasher & sandman), this probably will require a formula edit.

Agree. I believe the rate of success for these traps sucks too much. The Statuses also need to be more effective/last longer.

Most people wanted sniper to be easier to play, comparing it with the popular classes sinX and LK. The server responded with the valkyri blessings and a lot of people are definitely playing sniper now.. However, if you notice, the changes for balance against melee classes force us to play snipers with melee class strategies. or actually much like a bow stalker's strategy(long & short range + redux + STRIP..?).They tank and attack within 2 cells to try to strip to get a kill. Thats the reason why snipers are not doing as well as other classes. Snipers are not meant to be played with these strategies so we're not gonna get it's full potential. We need to build upon what it already has.

Other classes are stronger because all their skills work for the way they are being played. Snipers are meant to control the field and use distance as an advantage in battle. Much like LKs and sinXs, a battle for sniper class is to outlast the enemy, endurance battles. Offense is similar, to damage the enemy until they run out of yggs, not 1 hit kills or strategic kills. For defense however, Snipers are not as reliant on redux and HP as other endurance classes.

A snipers defense is related to it's skills and is similar to flee/dodge instead of reducs. Its defense relies on how you utilize its skills instead of better gear. Long range characters can be at a range/distance where your not taking as much damage as when your closer to the enemy. In some cases, you can even totally avoid attacks from a distance and still do damage. Thats why bows were meant to be 2 handed, because we didnt have to wear as much reducs when we can shoot from a distance. It's set of skills naturally support this strategy; traps, wind walker, 4 knock back skills, detect, spring trap etc.

I think we should re-evaluate how every job can reach their full potential by complimenting its natural strategy and skills instead of applying different strategies.

GIVE SNIPERS 50K MORE HP WE GOT SO LITTLE HP. I ONLY GOT 260K HP X.X

Snipers do lack on surivivability in our server... But redux and HP isnt the only way to survive more. I think HP would only build on destroying the snipers mechanics more... It would encourage more people to play it like a melee class.. However, tanking damage and doing damage on sniper doesnt work too well withuot gears like yours.

Edited November 2, 2010 by Ravage

[L2Aim]

To those who think I wanted coma to be put on a weapon as an addition, you were wrong, I asked for the coma percentage to be reinstated for snipers.

Which means that the current 0.01 coma chance should become the old and official value of the LoD card, but I'm fine with a 0.5% too (on LoD card).

About the ranged stripping whining, it's been there for a long long time and back in the days I was pretty much the only sniper using it as my main way to disarm my opponents.

FCP was bugging me as much as it bugs stalkers these days and back then I didn't have 1 handed bows, all the reducts, increased weight and whatnot.

Now that almost all classes have been upgraded in both offence & defence, I think it would be correct to reinstate ranged stripping through the available cards, not through weapon modifications.

It isn't overpowered, Snipers are still vulnerable like no other.

The stun locking problems you guys bring up when a sniper auto-attacks are easily nullified by cloak, hide or other escape abilities (backslide(both thief classes), wall of fog(Prof), charge(LK), pushback skill from palawin + defensive aura, an auto pneuma card(everyone)).

People are just making up too much excuses because one of the least played classes PvP wise is now slowly becoming a viable one damage wise.

Yet they were nerfed tactically through the traps and a lot, I can still sniperslide with skidtrap, just requires some handy trick, but our trap duration still blows.

Magnetic Earth/Land Protector is supposed to disable all of our traps, heaven's drive is not. Traps are too overpowered with all the suggestions I made?

Land protector nullifies it immediately.

"But QQ no profs in WoE!" Then learn to balance your teams, guilds & parties and stop all being wannabe emp breakers.

I don't want snipers to be easier to play, hell they can nerf the damage back to elite bows for all I care, I want them to be a tactical class again.

Let them do what they're made for, trapping, but don't make the traps useless when that's their main job in a defensive (and also offensive) strategy in guild orientated wars/events.

Thanks for all the swift responses & thorough explanations.

P.S. I do not intend to offend you bankai`, but so far your posts have only be seen as trolling, either contribute to the topic or refrain from posting here.

[Ravage]

The stun locking problems you guys bring up when a sniper auto-attacks are easily nullified by cloak, hide or other escape abilities (backslide(both thief classes), wall of fog(Prof), charge(LK), pushback skill from palawin + defensive aura, an auto pneuma card(everyone)).

Yet they were nerfed tactically through the traps and a lot, I can still sniperslide with skidtrap, just requires some handy trick, but our trap duration still blows.

Thats why it becomes over powered. They have to nullify the recoil effects the same time they're getting stripped. When you add range strip, your not only adding the advantage of stripping from a distance. It is a stronger offensive strategy than just normall stripping from a distance. IMO, Old school Dagger + shield was awesome for stripping. You could choose which type of strip would benefit you more in the daggers. I know i would prefer to always strip shield than a chance of random strip. And we have to walk up 2 cells anyways. and Dagger > pneuma

Snipers are still a tactical class, however, not its original tactics. If you notice that since the more popular classes are melee, the the most popular aspect of gamplay and strategies being considered are related to melee. To balance sniper's weakness, the server has been buffing it to do the same melee strategies which is not gonna work all the time or at it's best. Im not saying all the other strategies cant be done on sniper. Strategies have their situations when they are most efficient.Thats why snipers are still vulnerable, because we are promoting incompatible/inefficient strategies for it.

I was watching a sniper last night dueling in for_fild. It was embarrassing, he was playing like he was on a melee character. Melee character strategies and getting wins through better gears. However he still wasnt doing as good as he should have been with his gears because his strategies were in-efficient for sniper. His offense didnt even seem like he knew he was using a ranged weapon, throwing away the advantage. He would walk closer to an enemy before attacking when he could attack from where he already was while not worrying about being attacked back.. His tactics for defense was also similar to other popular job classes. He allowed himself to be damaged and relied on gear to survive. No utilization of traps whatsoever. As a sniper, this is very in-efficient.

The disadvantages of sniper are much more apparent in our damage oriented server than the its advantages which are not directly related to damage but strategies. I suggested a snipers defense relies in it's advantage to abuse game mechanics more than it's gear. Thats because its meant to use flee/dodge/evade techniques as defense instead of tank+redux. It achieves this not through gears but through its stats+skills and the game's natural mechanics. The best defense is a good offense. Thats the strategy that a sniper's skills and advantages are most efficient in supporting. Its offense is it's defense. It uses it's skills to keep people from attacking them instead of to anticipate being damaged by wearing reducs.

It's advantages in controlling the field and distance is severly overlooked. Traps play a huge role in sniper strategies and definitely need to be buffed. Maybe we can change the HP and def of traps to how plants are, but with 3 HP. All damage is 1 no matter what so then it would be equal for everyone in how many hits it takes to destroy the traps. Even in woe.

P.S. All i remember the day traps were nerfed to unmovable was people quitting sniper and the remaining asking me how I was still moving traps. Traps are that important to snipers.

Lmao I have 240k hp you should be happy with 250k lmao...

do you even think?

Edited November 3, 2010 by Ravage

[L2Aim]

Bump.

» I'd like to have the traps fixed and their damage capabilities adjusted to High Rate values.

Pure Trap/FA Snipers were very viable in Low Rates, I'd like to be able to experiment with that here too.

» The long range stripping shouldn't be an issue with your previously addressed FCP duration (it's mad long for a fast paced fighting style, especially on HR).

As soon that duration would be altered, then we can evaluate if ranged stripping indeed is so overpowered as you people try to state here (it never was).

My main goal in this suggestion topic is the traps.

P.S. I have around 300k HP on my Sniper and I have quite outdated gear,

if I would be on par with the most decked out players around, Snipers could hang around 350k instead.

[Veracity]

We can definitely try most if not all the changes suggested here, though there is no guarantee they will work.

- Accepted -